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Old 05-30-2006, 06:15 PM   #1
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"the cradle" of civilization

i don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. i was driving and listening to "the pot" and heard the line "rob the grave to snow the cradle" and i thought "hm, the cradle?"as in the "cradle of civilization", as in the area between the tigris and euphrates, as in iraq? using the idea that "rob the grave" refers to the use of the 9/11 victims to justify the war on terrorism, there's a connection there; i don't know if i necessarily believe that the song is strictly about the president and the war, but i was wondering if anyone else caught this possible reference
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:18 PM   #2
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Re: "the cradle" of civilization

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendere
i don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. i was driving and listening to "the pot" and heard the line "rob the grave to snow the cradle" and i thought "hm, the cradle?"as in the "cradle of civilization", as in the area between the tigris and euphrates, as in iraq? using the idea that "rob the grave" refers to the use of the 9/11 victims to justify the war on terrorism, there's a connection there; i don't know if i necessarily believe that the song is strictly about the president and the war, but i was wondering if anyone else caught this possible reference
Yes, and I think it's as sound as any idea put forth to this point. It fits well.
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:25 PM   #3
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Re: the cradle

Nice idea! Damn, I've noticed that lyric a lot, but never drawn it to that conclusion... Personally, I think this is a political song, and it's about a lot of things. Very cool.
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:34 PM   #4
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Re: the cradle

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Originally Posted by rogerdoger
Nice idea! Damn, I've noticed that lyric a lot, but never drawn it to that conclusion... Personally, I think this is a political song, and it's about a lot of things. Very cool.
Stop reducing this song to a "Bush thing". It's clearly about Maynard's mother. ;)
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:20 PM   #5
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Re: "the cradle" of civilization

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendere
i don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. i was driving and listening to "the pot" and heard the line "rob the grave to snow the cradle" and i thought "hm, the cradle?"as in the "cradle of civilization", as in the area between the tigris and euphrates, as in iraq? using the idea that "rob the grave" refers to the use of the 9/11 victims to justify the war on terrorism, there's a connection there; i don't know if i necessarily believe that the song is strictly about the president and the war, but i was wondering if anyone else caught this possible reference
damn, i've never thought of it that way. that sounds right on. although, i think he (MJK) touches on more than just 9/11 in this song. perhaps thats why you only brought up the one line.....:)
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Old 05-31-2006, 02:09 AM   #6
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Re: the cradle

I'll take it!
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Old 05-31-2006, 09:46 AM   #7
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Re: the cradle

once you tie everything together, the song is about imperfection and the healing of basics...
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:23 AM   #8
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Re: the cradle

I did a google search on "snow the cradle" and came up with nothing. Your theory is as good as mine. I mean, what you say is very compelling. What's my theory? I tried associating snow with cradle and got Christmas. We all know Jesus was probably born in late spring, as Mary and Joseph where in town for the census, and it was only later that the Catholic chruch placed Christ's Mass to coincide with the pagan winter festival, so the converts would have something to enjoy. They "snowed" the "cradle." "Rob the grave" then is a reference to Lazerus, which was the final sign used to declare Christ's divinity. Recall that it was not until the council of Nicea, some 300 years after the crucifixion, that Christ's divinity was made a matter of chruch doctrine. Therefore, the line "rob the grave to snow the cradle" is interpreted as "Use your myths to establish your self-righteousness," which means that the place from which they judge is baseless. Mind you, this is not an attack on Jesus, just an attack on hypocritical churches.

Yep, I admit, far fetched. Doesn't explain "burn the evidence down." DOES lend itself to "Kangaroo court" and "lawyer", as it was the miracle of Lazerus which led directly to the decision of the Sanhedrin to condemn Jesus.

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Last edited by Bukkhead; 06-02-2006 at 10:25 AM.. Reason: typos
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:22 PM   #9
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Re: the cradle

Sticking to the theme of a verbal altercation or a misguided judgement being handed down, here's what I get from the grave/cradle/evidence lines:

'Robbing the grave' is digging up old, tired or dead issues. Snow is clean and fresh. A cradle signifies the birth of something. So 'snowing the cradle' is making something new.

So an old point or issue is being brought up again but the person speaking is trying to pass it off as something new or relevant. It's just the same old shit.
Burning the evidence down would be denying that the point has been proven to be without merit/relevance in the past.

Someone is talking out their ass and trying to pass it off as gospel.
Or trying to start an arguement based on something that has already been brought up in the past.
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Old 06-22-2006, 06:44 PM   #10
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Re: the cradle

wow, actually, that kind of makes sense. Snow, as in snowflakes falling- or bombs? The Cradle? Hmmm...
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:47 PM   #11
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Re: the cradle

Snow

v ...

2: conceal one's true motives from especially by elaborately feigning good intentions so as to gain an end

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Snow

That fits descendere's theory nicely.
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Old 06-23-2006, 12:14 AM   #12
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Re: the cradle

I hear "rob the grave to SOW the cradle", but it still fits with your theory
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Old 06-23-2006, 12:44 PM   #13
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Re: the cradle

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonboy
I hear "rob the grave to SOW the cradle", but it still fits with your theory
That would make perfect sense.
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Old 06-23-2006, 01:23 PM   #14
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Re: the cradle

yeah, what kyleb said.

I always thought he means something similar to "snow job" which is sorta like the definition he gave.
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:11 PM   #15
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Re: "the cradle" of civilization

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendere
i don't think anyone has mentioned this yet. i was driving and listening to "the pot" and heard the line "rob the grave to snow the cradle" and i thought "hm, the cradle?"as in the "cradle of civilization", as in the area between the tigris and euphrates, as in iraq? using the idea that "rob the grave" refers to the use of the 9/11 victims to justify the war on terrorism, there's a connection there; i don't know if i necessarily believe that the song is strictly about the president and the war, but i was wondering if anyone else caught this possible reference
I think this is a really interesting point, but it seems like the whole song is metaphorical (i.e. "Pot calling the kettle black", "chosen indigo", "throwing stones in a glass house", "kangaroo court"). So I think that using the word "cradle" to represent a specific location would be inconsistent. I think cradle and grave are both metaphors as well, but what exactly they are referring to I'm not sure.
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:53 PM   #16
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Re: the cradle

nah
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:54 PM   #17
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Re: the cradle

It's about MJK's tiff wit 2 pac
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Old 07-03-2006, 08:51 PM   #18
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Re: the cradle

i love some of the ideas everyone comes up with, it sometimes makes me smile because i think the same thing or something clicked in my head
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:36 AM   #19
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Re: the cradle

bang-up job, chaps!
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:44 AM   #20
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Re: the cradle

rob the grave to snow the cradle. hmmm...

I really like the deduction about 9/11 and iraq. but im looking at it as a more domestic point of view. I think that it has more of a 'covering up the past, to hide it from the youth' ...one of those "who controls the past controls the future..." kinda deals. then the "burn the evidence down" part, serves as reinforcment.
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:15 AM   #21
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Re: the cradle

this song in particular is made up almost entirely of metaphors, so its really subjective... if you see wars and iraq in this song, thats what you're looking for. if you see a petty sqwabble between maynard and a worthless rapper, thats what you're looking for. personally, i see a coming-of-age story about a little boy too scared to join the circus for fear that his grandpa may disown him... see? its subjective.
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Old 07-24-2006, 03:45 PM   #22
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Re: the cradle

if we take rob the grave as in the sense of grave robbers, like the people to take artifacts from tombs and sell them on the black market, it can be seen as: rob the grave, as in to take from the past without leaving any recollection of what was there. Snow the cradle, as in to hide from those in the literal cradle( children ) from what had actually happened. Burn the evidence down, as in to destroy the evidence of any wrongdoing, either in robbing the grave or concealing it.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:35 PM   #23
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Re: the cradle

I always perceived it as :
Steal from the past (our forefathers) claim it as your own. Tell the youth that you did it, and you burned the evidence down, so that the youth (the cradle) will have to take your word for it because there's nothing left to study.
Moreso, in a religious context: Take the past make it how it suits you and don't leave anything around to prove otherwise.
In a political context: Claim all the greatness those before you created, claim responsibility (Al Gore invented the internet) and snow the youth with your bullshit....
etc, etc, etc,
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:09 PM   #24
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Re: the cradle

Two words. Cradle of Love.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:22 PM   #25
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*rofl*
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Old 08-03-2006, 04:23 PM   #26
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Re: the cradle

wow, that just made visiting this site worth it.
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:16 PM   #27
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I just made that my signature
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:15 PM   #28
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Re: the cradle

"Rob the grave [in order] to snow the cradle, then burn the evidence down".


In any event, it's important to note that the lyric suggests we must "rob the grave" as a preceding action to snowing the cradle. The one must come necessarily before the other, because the first is the cause of the second.


"rob the grave" -to forcefully seek out a sort of consciousness, or wisdom, that is well beyond your years; the type of consciousness, or wisdom, that the dead who have travelled beyond the grave would possess about our world, hypothetically speaking of course.

"snow the cradle" -to freeze out the warm and pure loving nature of your youth, probably through gaining the beyond the grave type of consciousness, which tends on dehumanizing an individual.

"burn the evidence down" -cut yourself off from your past by eliminating, or just distancing yourself from, your origins. Once it's no longer apparent that you were ever different than the cold and removed way that you are now (since your youth/cradle has been "snowed"), you will finally achieve the separation from your youth that you apparently were seeking by robbing the grave in order to snow the cradle. You will forget entirely that at one time you were much different in nature; that you were much less consumed in your pursuit of obtaining profound beyond the grave type knowlege; that you were much less concerned with cleaning your eyes with "lemon juice" (as is stated in the song) which is thought to help you see, or perceive, things better; that you were ever once much more human-like than you are now.


We become removed from our young warm and passionate nature (snow the cradle) by forcefully instilling ourselves with abstract knowledge (rob the grave); the type of knowledge that tends to keep our thoughts "soooo high" above typical daily patterns of thought, but of which types of thought is also instilled by smoking pot. :-)


Overall, I've considered that this song is about someone who is under an intense pursuit of knowledge, but of whom is picking and choosing the facts that go along with his preconception of reality, or whatever. This person holds a "kangaroo court" in the sense that their decision about reality is already made up before they go in search of the facts, as kangaroo courts are notorious for making their judgements before the trial even begins.



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Old 08-03-2006, 07:46 PM   #29
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Re: the cradle

Quote:
Originally Posted by iota
It's about MJK's tiff wit 2 pac
Finally... someone else finally gets it. Evolution still has a chance.
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:53 PM   #30
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Re: the cradle

Edit: Double post
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Old 08-04-2006, 04:05 AM   #31
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Re: the cradle

Great insight and post Godin.
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Old 08-04-2006, 08:49 AM   #32
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BlanketEffect: Are you being ironic? Cause I did find a webpage all about the tiff...
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Old 08-05-2006, 04:36 PM   #33
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Re: the cradle

Here's something about it... dig deeper at your risk of sinking into blog hell.

http://thaspot.thuglifearmy.com/blog...5/02/4066.aspx
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Old 08-05-2006, 08:13 PM   #34
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yep, that's the article I read too.
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Old 08-05-2006, 08:14 PM   #35
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Re: the cradle

Quote:
Originally Posted by T00LHEAD
Shit, I hope Maynard don't get capped.
*lol*

well, not really, but *lol*
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Old 08-06-2006, 09:26 AM   #36
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Re: the cradle

Quote:
Originally Posted by iota

Graaaagh!
IOTA has tricked you, and has eaten your brains - you have now joined the shambling, grey-skinned legions of the undead, along with everyone else who has ever visited this page.

IOTA the zombie has eaten 4 brains. Yours was delicious.
Damnit!
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Old 08-06-2006, 09:30 AM   #37
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^

*AAaargghhh*
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Old 08-06-2006, 09:59 AM   #38
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Re: the cradle

You know, now that I read the *entire* article.... I dunno... seems pretty farfetched and grasping at straws. He even drew parallels from 'The Pot' but the lyrics posted there aren't right... so who knows?

Certainly not I.
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:59 AM   #39
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Re: the cradle

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilprimeval
Stop reducing this song to a "Bush thing". It's clearly about Maynard's mother. ;)

Your bieng sarcastic yes?
I like the idea that it could have to do with Iraq, as in steal Iraq's oil, and snow the angel bieng making us (USA) richer? could be... or it could be as someone else said earlier, just bringing up old isues and trying to put a new light on them.. either way we'll probably never know. Good theory though
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