At one point, considered compiling all the songs that may refer to Maynard's Mother, and it included Judith (APC) and The Reflection/Disposition/Triad trilogy, and Eulogy. However, I've relooked at Eulogy, and decided that it may have been indirectly about Judith Marie, but not immediately.

Not, simply, because it says "HE had alot to say", but for other reasons.

"This song is about martyrs." - MJK
For one.

And when I thought about it, it seemed like Eulogy was about the people who fret about things they obsess over, about needlessly throwing away your life for starngers... which, like I said, could include Judith Marie, but is certainly not limited to.

So, when we compare his views of his mother between Wings and previous times, we cannot cite Eulogy (Get off your fucking cross, we need the fucking space).

Thoughts?

I thought Eulogy was about Bill Hicks, considering the inside of the CD.

Just kidding (partially).

Seriously though, the "get of your fucking cross" fits with the ideas in "Judith", but I do think the 'He' thing kills it for me right out of the gates.

Explain the Reflection trilogy meaning with Maynards mother.

you've got all wrong man
about maynard's mother:
Jimmy
Judith
Wings

Jimmy?? I didn't know that speaking of Judith ok Maynard said that this is about his mother Wings heard something about that but Jimmy ????

Hey, you're fairly new so you probably haven't read the posts yet, but somewhere there is a thread that explains all of this. :)

Jimmy is about Maynard at age 11 (Jimmy was his nickname, since his real first name is James). That is the year his mother had her stroke to become paralyzed. Look at the lyrics and you'll see the connection now.

Some say, including myself ,that in addition to Judith, Jimmy and Wings (1&2) that Orestes is also about his mom and her last days. "Umbilical residue keeping me from killing you" perhaps could refer to a time when Maynard and family may have had to make a decision about life support for his mother. And "one more medicated peaceful moment" could refer to giving her meds to help he to feel as good as possible in her last days.

Ok, I don't often insist I am right but Eulogy is NOT NOT NOT about his mom. It is a NEGATIVE song for someone whom Maynard does NOT respect.

It is not about Bill Hicks either, whom he also had a lot of respect for!

He stated in a interview (I will try to look for it) that it's about L. Ron Hubbard.

See..... as example.....

He had a lot to say, he had a lot of NOTHING to say. (negative and insulting)

Told us you weren't afraid to die, well then SO LONG. (negative and L. Ron said this)

HE had a voice that was strong and loud, We'll miss HIM (a man, not mom and it's sarcastic)

Ranting and pointing his finger at everything but HIS heart (Hypocrite, not honest)

You've claimed all this time that you would die for me (L. Ron said this)

Get off your fucking cross, we need the fuckin space to nail the next FOOL martyr. (negative and L. Ron was a martyr)

You must be crucified for your sins and your lies. (negative and insulting)

And sorry Yondo, but Reflection/Disposistion/Triad about his MOM? WHAT? No no no. I'm afraid you have miscontrude all of these songs' meanings.... so sad because Reflections has amazing meaning in it that you have obviously missed.

I would have said Orestes was about a relationship where the only thing keeping two people who Hate each other together is sex.

Kinda like how I see Pushit.

Yeah, the mom thing was just my thought on Orestes but I honestly have no clue on that one. Just a theory. The others I feel stronger about.

Yeeeessss! Love it.

LOL, thanks. I actually thought of you when I wrote this, it's your style. ;)

haha.. yes it is.

look at it like this... maynard was mad at bill hicks for dying. Obviously there is nothing you can do when someone dies, unless they kill themselves... But think of it as maynard felt all of the feelings of 'gravity' when hicks died. It was kind of "how could you leave me like this...."

You might think this is about someone that you dont like, but until i had a close friend of mine die i didnt really understand the true purpose of this song. Music is a vent, and expression. In eulogy he was expressing his anger and frustration of the death of bill hicks

Yeah, and well, but,

no.

Nate, I understand your reasoning here, good thoughts, but it's not correct in the context of this song.

Not really, per se, about his Mom, but after I listened to 10,000 Days and did research and learned, I can't help but think, as I hear the thunder in the background, that I'm watching the weather change.

Now, here might be a longshot, but it's how I've felt. Bear in mind his mother's virtuous ways, and her paralysis. So, even if it's not about her, it's about her INFLUENCE.

"Don't wanna be down here feeding my narcissism.
I must crucify the ego before it's far too late
I pray the light lifts me out
Before I pine away."
-Deadly sins, not to mention they lead to Guilt.

But, then, as I look at this last bit, it seems like a Eulogy of it's own...
"So crucify the ego, before it's far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,"
-He's wishing her a safe passage after death?

"And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable."
-Reassuring her of the AfterLife, collective-counsciousness.

"Bringing out our hope and reason ...
before we pine away."
-Gnostic Death?


Anyway,it's off topic, but I figured I'd explain my thoughts.

I see now how you made the connections. Based on your interpretation, which is different than mine, I would say that it is more general and on the topic that it is about any person.

Eulogy can work about anyone....just like most tool songs.

It's about hypicritical people. Not necissarily martyrs...but martyr wanna be's.

"Why then are you so surprised when you hear your own eulogy?"

see...the person was surprised to hear that his death was asked for. All the bull wasn't backed up.

So anyone you know like that this song is for.

also....the get off your fucking cross is that person is like "Look what I'm doing for you!!!" and they aren't doing anything.

So people who can throw their life away for something they didn't believe or hypicritical people

how many times do we have to go over this? maynard said himself...."it is about martyrs"....not one specific martyr, martyrs in general

he also said one time prison sex was just about anal sex

You forgot, "GOODBYEEEEEEEE!!!!(positive way of saying " farewell")

I reckon theres a lot of songs on 13th step that could be about his mom.

Maynard may quite possibly think of his mother the next time he sings eulogy, live, though... even if it was not written about her.

I see how you made the "indirect" connections about his mother.

_________
EXTRA [Random] INFORMATION:

If you didn't already know, Eulogy was about Paul D'Amour, leaving the band, and Justin Coming in the band.


"Get off your fucking cross" reffering to Paul, "We need the fucking space, to nail the next fool martyr" reffering to Justin.

Tool, at that time, basically reffered to themselves as martyrs.

LOL at everyone trying to tell others what songs should mean to them

the songs are not to be campared

Yep

Apples to oranges here.

That's why it was stated "Indirectly" connected. Meaning it is almost an impossible estimate. Basically, making the hypothosis useless to even post about. I gave you what Eulogy was about, so you can basically make the assumption off of my early post.

Wasn't Orestes written by Billy Howerdel ?

I don't know who the fuck you're talking to because "we" never went over this. Yes, this song can be applied to any martyr, absolutely... but Maynard said he wrote it with L. Ron in mind.

There seems to be much debate about which of Maynard's lyrics apply to his mother, and I think that maybe this ammounts to wasted breath (or rather, wasted finger dexterity). Maynard is forty-two years old (twelve years past trusting); he spent just over twenty-five percent of his life (eleven-plus of forty-two-plus years)- including the formative years- being indoctrinated into his mother's faith; he then spent just under two-thirds of his life (twenty-seven-plus- 10,000 days- of forty-two-plus years) struggling with that indoctrination- and eventually renouncing it, and mightily so- as Judith withered away in paralysis, wondering what kind of a "God" allows the most faithful of his flock to suffer so cruelly; and that leaves just under one-tenth of his life (the remaining span of under four of forty-two-plus years) without a living-world connection to Judith. Not intending to diminish the effect of a mother on the formative constitution of all people, I posit that Maynard's life has been particularly invested in his mother's tribulations of life and faith (what a bold and daring assertion- I know); and furthermore that his perspective on ANYTHING has been tempered by the filter of his relationship with Judith.

All that said, perhaps a more insightful question than "Which of Maynard's lyrical constructions apply to his mother?" would be, "How does the ideological foil presented by the relationship of mother and son manifest itself- individually- into every one of Maynard's lyrical constructions?" My point is that Maynard's contexts are dominated by Judith's struggles and her virtuous nature in the face of said adversity, and I don't think a day passed/passes when Maynard didn't/doesn't recall his mother's anguish. Thus, it would be hard for me to imagine that any song of Tool's lexicon could exist, lyrically, outside the influence of Judith Marie Keenan.

Sometimes the manifestations are direct and implicit, and we can pick out the connections- if not their intricate, deeper, personal meanings- with relative ease; as in cases like "Jimmy," "Judith," or "Wings for Marie/10,000 Days." Sometimes the manifestations are quite veiled and harder to see, and we will seldom, if ever, be able to fathom the connections- let alone their intricate, deeper, personal meanings- without months or years of reflection and ordering of context; as in the case of the suggested application (earlier on in this thread) of "Watch the weather change" from Disposition/Reflection/Triad. In latter cases, we will not likely ever be able to infallibly varify our inferrences, as we will never (in all likelihood) have such a personal connection to Maynard's life and struggles as to gain such transcendant insight. Yet still, such suggestions are quite intriguing in that they allow each of us to view the possible manifestations of Judith's prolific and powerful influence from multiple perspectives as diverse as we are.

Interesting note for the future of that influence . . . At the end of "Wings for Marie," Maynard leaves us by intoning, "So I'm alright now, it's time for us to let you go." Is it possible that Maynard is saying that it is time that he free himself of this influence; that he move forward with his life and his perspective into a more individual identity? True, the very next track on the album is a glowing, final tribute of love and admiration for Judith Marie Keenan. But after that, the focus of the album seems to shift to a more extroverted frame of reference, wherein Maynard's lyrical thrust seems to be aimed more at the interactions among humankind (and non-humankind). I am not suggesting that future lyrics will be devoid of Judith's influence, just that they will be of the type identified above as "quite veiled and harder to see." Maybe we've heard the last of direct homages to Judith and her life . . ?

Yes, I completely agree that everything that has happened in Maynard's life has of course affected his views, thoughts, words, beliefs, etc. Particularly his relationship with his mom. However, that doesn't mean that these (or other) songs are ABOUT his mom. That is my point.

In other words: All of Maynard's songs have to do with his mother a little bit.

So, bah. Don't poop on the party.

I pooped on nothing. I even corroborated your "Watch the weather change," reference.

Eulogy is in my opinion about Jesus. The lyrics seem to clearly express that it is. By the way, it is DEFINITELY NOT about Bill Hicks. The song presents the character as the antagonist. They would never portray Hicks that way.

goddammit, I'm tired of the Eulogy is about this person, or that person...

LOUD NOISES...

... i believe that's what tool intends with most of thier songs. not what it means to them/him (mjk) but what they mean to you. i have my own thoughts on Eulogy like most ppl. as well as thier other tunes. some we all know what there about others we don't. that's why we're still discussing them. that's the fun and the old school mysteries that most bands now a days don't even come close to. putting the music first and letting it belong to you... the listener.

I think that was directed at me, not you. And I agree, as I posted above, Maynard's like experiences influence all of his songs, but that doesn't mean they are ABOUT them.