to start of, im really enjoying this whole conspiracy theory of vicarious being a hoax thats going around. its actually funny because first of all if it were true it unlikely because lets face it, vicarious is not a bad song.

now for some actual discussion of the song, id like to pose this question? does anyone think that if eMOTIVe had never been released (im not sayin if apc had never been, just that cd) that people (well the ones who dont like the song) would be more accepting and willing to like the song?

another thing i just wanted to discuss about in referrence to maynards vocals. i like them, but so far im having a little trouble in the fact that he doesnt really seem to be selling the message. maynard is trying to portray a person that really does like choas, some one that is fixated on seeing violence in tv and death in news stories, but he sounds a little TOO sarcastic, like making fun of those who are only entertained by such chaos (subconsciously entertained of course, since people dont just like chaos and death out of nothing). it might just be that i dont see him as a destruction loving person since lateralus was such a "optimistic" thinking album (aside from ticks and leeches), so i just need to get out of that state of mind for this album.

i like the vocals. powerful yet no more powerful than any other instrument. the lyrics are straightforward and thus easier to interpret on an individual basis. as they say, the journey is more important than the destination.

as for the haters/lovers....schism was received in a similar fashion so i believe this bodes quite well for the album

as for the eMotive stuff...id prefer APC werent brought up at all...that was billy howerdel's band and billy howerdel has nothing to do with tool. maynard being in both bands obviously is going to create a little bit of crossover...especially since adam said in his GW interview that the band became much more emotionally involved in the music during the making of this record.

i would prefer we all analyze the music of and by its own merits instead of incessantly comparing it to other things....but that's my perfect world and nobody will come live with me in it : (

It's possible that he's not speaking from his own perspective.

For the most part I believe the lyrics subconsciously made me realize he's mostly singing about people just like me. If that makes sense.

it affected me the same way as well

and even later when i was watching fox news (non-stop hilarity spin news) and there were about 5 shock stories in a row (wife killed by husband, child abduction, deaths in the middle east, etc ) and i instantly trailed off and started thinking about vicarious

i agree that both bands should be looked at as two completly different entities (sp), the only reason it popped into my head is the subject matter of the song. very remisnicent of wat emotive was about, you know death, destruction, war (well not so much war).

for me, I really don't see the lyrics as sarcasm. The seem a little more straightforward. Not the he himself is seeing things that way, but that he sees it all around him.

i hadnt read into it like that

mainly since emotive was nothing more than a terrible terrible cover album and is likely what led to the dismantling of the band.

i just pretend it never existed

I think it's kinda obvious what the song is about...........................


D
E
C
O
Y

hahah true, not a very good album. but is it just me or is anyone else liking the "dies" at 1:39 on vicarious that sounds like maynards voice in gimmie gimmie gimmie or lets have a war on emotive. that sort of scratchy growling voice. and i couldnt stand that voice is those tracks, but now that part in vicarious is growing on me.

so is the new toolband intro a decoy intro?

ill have to play devil's advocate here, but the leak is very suspicious. it was just so damn... easy. still, only playing devil's advocate.

guess it wasnt that funny

I was always more than happy to consider APC and TOOL as 2 separate entites; in fact thats why I enjoyed them both so much, because they were so different (even with the same singer), and didnt seem to intrude on each others spaces.

Vicarious has changed that for me.

I think, as an album opener, it reonates closer to APC and 13th Step then to previous TOOL albums. I am very lyrics/vocals orientated though.

"The Package" and "Vicarious" both utilise the vocals in a very direct way to emphasize a point, the mechanics actually act as part of the narrative. This is very APC-ish for me, b/c thats where I heard it first and where i recognise it from.

I think the effect is superior in "The Package."

I'm not particulary having a bash, just making an observation.

Yes. The real intro is still up, the one that has been there for ages.

praefector is referring to the one that appears after you refresh the main page. i guess theyre still working on putting that one up.

edit: nvm, they already do have it as the main page

http://www.toolband.com.ua/main/index.htm

whats up with this?

Look up the word 'vicarious', the song makes a lot more sense when you understand that.

russian tool page

?

and yeah the word "vicarious" pretty much defines the theme of the song as it appears to me

we watch shock news (wife killed by a husband, man shot by his own son, etc) because seeing people die from a "safe distance" makes us feel more alive. we vicariously experience the pain and suffering of others to enrich our own lives.

haha i guess i keep forgetting wat vicarious means. maybe i should read the difinition like 20 more times so i can finally engrave it into my head and then see the song through that perspective

At first I didn't like the lyrics but after grabbing my dic....tionary and looking up the word I started to understand what or even why Maynard wrote those lyrics.