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goobermensch
01-30-2007, 08:54 PM
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I've always thought this song was heavily tragic. Shortly before I'd bought the album I'd taken a class on Aesthetics where we read a lot of theory on art and literature.. this included Aristotle's Poetics.. which includes his definitive interpretations of Classic Greek tragedy..

Just to give you a very basic and rudimentary rundown, essentially any epic involves a hero who ventures into unfamiliar territory, makes a valuable discovery, and brings it back to the familiar world where he is consequentially hailed a hero. You can see this from Gilgamesh to The Matrix. Tragedies normally have an embedded feature he called inversion of fortune, where originally the hero is sailing on high seas, and then realizes that things arn't exactly that peachy.. this is followed by the moment of catharsis.. (emotional outpour.. self realization .. whatever)

e.g. Oedipus realizes that the man he killed was actually his father, and that his wife was his birth mother.. *tough* so he blinds himself rendering the prophecy of the Sphinx true.

In Rosetta Stoned, we find the Hero in a hospital exam room, and he's coming back to the conscious realm.. the doctor asks him to speak, so he starts blurting out his whole tale. The first element is there, he ventures into an unfamiliar territory, call it the influence of psychedelics or an abduction experience.. whatever he's telling you about it.. so you'd better listen.

Notice how he can't keep a hold of himself, like he has just too much to say and too little time to say it so all the words are just spewing out of his mouth, and he's trying to recall every single detail and trying to communicate it to the best of his ability (even if that means using pop culture imagery etc.)

So he goes on about what he saw felt etc. and he's feeling all heroic n shit.. like he's gods gift to the world, until *BOOM* it hits him, he fucking can't remember the most important part...

..thats when the "Strapped down to my bed.." part kicks in. Thats when he realizes he "can't remember what they said".

But we already knew all this right? So did I.. but a few days ago I was wondering exactly where the moment of catharsis and the point of inversion occurs in the song. So surprisingly it turns out that that point is EXACTLY at the middle of the song.. and I mean right down to the second .. right at the 5:35 mark.. which essentially cuts the musical interlude into two..

He ends his last dialogged with "Then they showed me something.. I don't even know where to begin.." and "Can't Breath Right NOW!!"

probably passes out for a few seconds..

when he comes to he realizes he doesn't remember shit.

Another ingenious thing, perhaps we've all noticed. the H. solo packed into the song which emerges a little after the first Strapped down chorus. That is brilliant.. because just when he says can't remember what they said.. the solo starts and initially you're trying to figure out where you've heard that before.. talk about putting you in his place.. listen to the solo carefully and you can tell that it evolved from the initial riff and wasn't just plugged in to fill up disc space.



Notice the vocals towards the end when he's saying "can't remember what they said" he's almost crying.. incredible emotions being delivered by Maynard here..

So with respect to the whole tragedy thing, i think this fits the description pretty well.. but i think epic wise it's sort of inverted, because the hero actually dosen't bring anything new to the familiar world, he forgets it there..

Ladies and Gents appreicate the art thats delivered through this song.. What tool accomplish in this song is a rare deliverance (although not so rare for them).

PS.. if anyone knows more about tragedies and epics be my guest to elaborate on/ correct any of the points ive made..

PPS Apologies for wasting anyones time with a lot of old stuff you might not have wanted to read about.. but i just really felt like putting this out there
Old 01-30-2007, 08:54 PM   #1
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A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

I've always thought this song was heavily tragic. Shortly before I'd bought the album I'd taken a class on Aesthetics where we read a lot of theory on art and literature.. this included Aristotle's Poetics.. which includes his definitive interpretations of Classic Greek tragedy..

Just to give you a very basic and rudimentary rundown, essentially any epic involves a hero who ventures into unfamiliar territory, makes a valuable discovery, and brings it back to the familiar world where he is consequentially hailed a hero. You can see this from Gilgamesh to The Matrix. Tragedies normally have an embedded feature he called inversion of fortune, where originally the hero is sailing on high seas, and then realizes that things arn't exactly that peachy.. this is followed by the moment of catharsis.. (emotional outpour.. self realization .. whatever)

e.g. Oedipus realizes that the man he killed was actually his father, and that his wife was his birth mother.. *tough* so he blinds himself rendering the prophecy of the Sphinx true.

In Rosetta Stoned, we find the Hero in a hospital exam room, and he's coming back to the conscious realm.. the doctor asks him to speak, so he starts blurting out his whole tale. The first element is there, he ventures into an unfamiliar territory, call it the influence of psychedelics or an abduction experience.. whatever he's telling you about it.. so you'd better listen.

Notice how he can't keep a hold of himself, like he has just too much to say and too little time to say it so all the words are just spewing out of his mouth, and he's trying to recall every single detail and trying to communicate it to the best of his ability (even if that means using pop culture imagery etc.)

So he goes on about what he saw felt etc. and he's feeling all heroic n shit.. like he's gods gift to the world, until *BOOM* it hits him, he fucking can't remember the most important part...

..thats when the "Strapped down to my bed.." part kicks in. Thats when he realizes he "can't remember what they said".

But we already knew all this right? So did I.. but a few days ago I was wondering exactly where the moment of catharsis and the point of inversion occurs in the song. So surprisingly it turns out that that point is EXACTLY at the middle of the song.. and I mean right down to the second .. right at the 5:35 mark.. which essentially cuts the musical interlude into two..

He ends his last dialogged with "Then they showed me something.. I don't even know where to begin.." and "Can't Breath Right NOW!!"

probably passes out for a few seconds..

when he comes to he realizes he doesn't remember shit.

Another ingenious thing, perhaps we've all noticed. the H. solo packed into the song which emerges a little after the first Strapped down chorus. That is brilliant.. because just when he says can't remember what they said.. the solo starts and initially you're trying to figure out where you've heard that before.. talk about putting you in his place.. listen to the solo carefully and you can tell that it evolved from the initial riff and wasn't just plugged in to fill up disc space.



Notice the vocals towards the end when he's saying "can't remember what they said" he's almost crying.. incredible emotions being delivered by Maynard here..

So with respect to the whole tragedy thing, i think this fits the description pretty well.. but i think epic wise it's sort of inverted, because the hero actually dosen't bring anything new to the familiar world, he forgets it there..

Ladies and Gents appreicate the art thats delivered through this song.. What tool accomplish in this song is a rare deliverance (although not so rare for them).

PS.. if anyone knows more about tragedies and epics be my guest to elaborate on/ correct any of the points ive made..

PPS Apologies for wasting anyones time with a lot of old stuff you might not have wanted to read about.. but i just really felt like putting this out there
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Caley
02-01-2007, 02:18 PM
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Don't apologize for a post like that.
I too have speculated the meaning of this song, and this is one idea i have come to as well. I love how the mood passes from bewildered, (when this guy start explaining what he thinks he saw,) to the pure disapointment and frustration of it not as meaning much to anybody else because they were not in his shoes. If RS makes you feel something then i think it did it's job. sweet post.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:18 PM   #2
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Don't apologize for a post like that.
I too have speculated the meaning of this song, and this is one idea i have come to as well. I love how the mood passes from bewildered, (when this guy start explaining what he thinks he saw,) to the pure disapointment and frustration of it not as meaning much to anybody else because they were not in his shoes. If RS makes you feel something then i think it did it's job. sweet post.
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Salvatorin
02-01-2007, 05:24 PM
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your take is really great, it changed my view on the song quite a bit.
Old 02-01-2007, 05:24 PM   #3
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

your take is really great, it changed my view on the song quite a bit.
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decoydroid
02-03-2007, 08:08 AM
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To me the tragedy comes from the demonstration that even though drugs have been known to induce some of the greatest mystical/philosophical revelations, they also leave the frail human body incapacitated and retarded. Yeah the guy thought he was shown the key to life or the meaning of life or whatever, but the fact that the drug also fucked up his body and mind, it no longer matters. The experience remains completely subjective to him, and even then just dimly.

My appreciation of the lyrics come from the fact that they are a strange mixture of the most profound poetic extremes(overwhelmed as one would be/a message of hope for those who choose to hear it, and a warning to those who do not), with the most juvenile, comical lows (shit the bed, with someniferous almond eyes, yogi dmt, ect.)

From my understanding of hallucinogens, it is in fact common that a lot of people do have these kinds of revelations from 'other beings' while under the influence of these drugs, especially DMT. Also it's quite common that these experiences, even if they are profound and life-altering, are forgotten/not remembered as clearly.
Old 02-03-2007, 08:08 AM   #4
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

To me the tragedy comes from the demonstration that even though drugs have been known to induce some of the greatest mystical/philosophical revelations, they also leave the frail human body incapacitated and retarded. Yeah the guy thought he was shown the key to life or the meaning of life or whatever, but the fact that the drug also fucked up his body and mind, it no longer matters. The experience remains completely subjective to him, and even then just dimly.

My appreciation of the lyrics come from the fact that they are a strange mixture of the most profound poetic extremes(overwhelmed as one would be/a message of hope for those who choose to hear it, and a warning to those who do not), with the most juvenile, comical lows (shit the bed, with someniferous almond eyes, yogi dmt, ect.)

From my understanding of hallucinogens, it is in fact common that a lot of people do have these kinds of revelations from 'other beings' while under the influence of these drugs, especially DMT. Also it's quite common that these experiences, even if they are profound and life-altering, are forgotten/not remembered as clearly.
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Arkham Asylum's Avatar Arkham Asylum
02-03-2007, 09:19 AM
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Interesting approach. It seems to make a fair amount of sense and I like your interpretation. Perhaps the "burden" is that human duty we each have.
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Old 02-03-2007, 09:19 AM   #5
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Interesting approach. It seems to make a fair amount of sense and I like your interpretation. Perhaps the "burden" is that human duty we each have.
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rsar
02-05-2007, 12:52 PM
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Woah, this really makes sense. I like it, good job.
Old 02-05-2007, 12:52 PM   #6
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Woah, this really makes sense. I like it, good job.
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EssnayRepXTamEt's Avatar EssnayRepXTamEt
02-07-2007, 03:02 PM
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Cool post, but tragedies require certain things... one of those things is the Tragic Hero, which this song lacks.

The Tragic Hero:
1. is not a regular person. Cannot be average, needs to be somebody "great." The song lacks this...
2. The person must be essentially good. We have no evidence of this in the song.
3. They need to have a tragic flaw, such as hubris. Or failing to learn from his/her mistakes. There's nothing of the like in the song.

The song is basically about a normal guy who has an adventure of some sort. Which doesn't qualify for a tragedy. The audience needs to be able to feel a sympathy or some sort of other emotion for the character. And it's hard to feel something for a guy who takes a shit load of drugs and trips out because of it. I feel no emotions for such a character, other than humour. But I don't sympathize, or feel bad for the guy. He was nothing to me...



I see your points though, and it's very interesting, indeed. Nice post.
Old 02-07-2007, 03:02 PM   #7
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Cool post, but tragedies require certain things... one of those things is the Tragic Hero, which this song lacks.

The Tragic Hero:
1. is not a regular person. Cannot be average, needs to be somebody "great." The song lacks this...
2. The person must be essentially good. We have no evidence of this in the song.
3. They need to have a tragic flaw, such as hubris. Or failing to learn from his/her mistakes. There's nothing of the like in the song.

The song is basically about a normal guy who has an adventure of some sort. Which doesn't qualify for a tragedy. The audience needs to be able to feel a sympathy or some sort of other emotion for the character. And it's hard to feel something for a guy who takes a shit load of drugs and trips out because of it. I feel no emotions for such a character, other than humour. But I don't sympathize, or feel bad for the guy. He was nothing to me...



I see your points though, and it's very interesting, indeed. Nice post.
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goobermensch
02-07-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EssnayRepXTamEt View Post
Cool post, but tragedies require certain things... one of those things is the Tragic Hero, which this song lacks.

The Tragic Hero:
1. is not a regular person. Cannot be average, needs to be somebody "great." The song lacks this...
2. The person must be essentially good. We have no evidence of this in the song.
3. They need to have a tragic flaw, such as hubris. Or failing to learn from his/her mistakes. There's nothing of the like in the song.


I see your points though, and it's very interesting, indeed. Nice post.
Technically his tragic flaw was that he "forgot his pen" .. and he did think he was someone great, a "hero", "the one" etc. but that was while he still thought he remembered "the message".. but owing to his tragic flaw he forgot the message and thence the song takes a turn .. im not saying this was a classic greek tragedy.. it was tool's interpretation of tragic.

Also it was a creative way of thinking about tragedies which were so brutally criticized in Vicarious.. here Maynard comes up with the greatest of all tragedies.. to gain esoteric wisdom and then to forget it all. thats more tragic than the following:

1. Killed by the husband
2. Shot by his own son
3. She used the poison in his tea, and kissed him good bye.

plus no one dies at the end of this.. just a guy shitting his bed ..



on a slightly different note though, its also a critique on irresponsible drug use, or "junkies" .. i heard in a recent tour while singing Aenema, Maynard sang the lyric

"Fuck all you junkies, and fuck your short memory" 4-5 times in a row.. just to mess with the crowd's heads.. imagine if you were stoned when he did that little twist.
Old 02-07-2007, 08:45 PM   #8
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssnayRepXTamEt View Post
Cool post, but tragedies require certain things... one of those things is the Tragic Hero, which this song lacks.

The Tragic Hero:
1. is not a regular person. Cannot be average, needs to be somebody "great." The song lacks this...
2. The person must be essentially good. We have no evidence of this in the song.
3. They need to have a tragic flaw, such as hubris. Or failing to learn from his/her mistakes. There's nothing of the like in the song.


I see your points though, and it's very interesting, indeed. Nice post.
Technically his tragic flaw was that he "forgot his pen" .. and he did think he was someone great, a "hero", "the one" etc. but that was while he still thought he remembered "the message".. but owing to his tragic flaw he forgot the message and thence the song takes a turn .. im not saying this was a classic greek tragedy.. it was tool's interpretation of tragic.

Also it was a creative way of thinking about tragedies which were so brutally criticized in Vicarious.. here Maynard comes up with the greatest of all tragedies.. to gain esoteric wisdom and then to forget it all. thats more tragic than the following:

1. Killed by the husband
2. Shot by his own son
3. She used the poison in his tea, and kissed him good bye.

plus no one dies at the end of this.. just a guy shitting his bed ..



on a slightly different note though, its also a critique on irresponsible drug use, or "junkies" .. i heard in a recent tour while singing Aenema, Maynard sang the lyric

"Fuck all you junkies, and fuck your short memory" 4-5 times in a row.. just to mess with the crowd's heads.. imagine if you were stoned when he did that little twist.
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EssnayRepXTamEt's Avatar EssnayRepXTamEt
02-08-2007, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goobermensch View Post
Technically his tragic flaw was that he "forgot his pen" .. and he did think he was someone great, a "hero", "the one" etc. but that was while he still thought he remembered "the message".. but owing to his tragic flaw he forgot the message and thence the song takes a turn .. im not saying this was a classic greek tragedy.. it was tool's interpretation of tragic.






on a slightly different note though, its also a critique on irresponsible drug use, or "junkies" .. i heard in a recent tour while singing Aenema, Maynard sang the lyric
Good thinking... I never would have thought of the pen in that aspect, but it does make sense... very clever, if ya ask me.






And I totally agree about it being a critique on irresponsible drug use. And of course, they throw some humour in there as well, to convey the message.
Old 02-08-2007, 08:36 AM   #9
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by goobermensch View Post
Technically his tragic flaw was that he "forgot his pen" .. and he did think he was someone great, a "hero", "the one" etc. but that was while he still thought he remembered "the message".. but owing to his tragic flaw he forgot the message and thence the song takes a turn .. im not saying this was a classic greek tragedy.. it was tool's interpretation of tragic.






on a slightly different note though, its also a critique on irresponsible drug use, or "junkies" .. i heard in a recent tour while singing Aenema, Maynard sang the lyric
Good thinking... I never would have thought of the pen in that aspect, but it does make sense... very clever, if ya ask me.






And I totally agree about it being a critique on irresponsible drug use. And of course, they throw some humour in there as well, to convey the message.
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el-comerfordo
02-13-2007, 08:17 AM
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ROSETTA STONED- Maynard James Keenan ---- The Rosetta Stone was the key to the Egyptian
hieroglyphs. Stoned refers to drugs.
Alrighty, then ... picture this if you will.

10 to 2 AM, X, Yogi, DMT ---------DMT is the strongest hallucinogen known to man.
And a box of Krispy Kremes,
in my "need to know" pose
just outside of Area 51 -----------A reference to the supposed UFO crash site in America
Contemplating
the whole "chosen people" thingy
when a flaming stealth banana split the sky, like

One would hope but never really expect ----He did not expect what was coming to him.
to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime
and stopping right at my Birkenstocks,
and me yelping...

Holy fucking shit!

Then the X-Files being, --------------------------------The first of many TV references.
Looking like some kind of blue-green Jackie Chan
with Isabella Rossellini lips, and breath that reeked of
vanilla Chig Champa ------------------------------Chig is the name of an alien race from
Did a slow-mo Matrix descent the TV show Space: Above and Beyond
Outta the butt end of the banana vessel and Champa is Asian food.
And hovered above my bug-eyes,
my gaping jaw,
and my sweaty L. Ron Hubbard upper lip,
and all I could think was,
"I hope Uncle Martin here doesn't notice --------Uncle Martian was a character in an old that I pissed my fuckin' pants." TV series called “My Favourite Martian”

So light in this way
Like an apparition, [that] --------------------Disbelief faced with the alien.
He had me crying out,
"Fuck me
It's gotta be
the Deadhead Chemistry --------------- Reference to the Grateful Dead, notorious for
The blotter got [right] on top of me their use of LSD, which is otherwise known as
Got me seein' E-motherfuckin'-T!" “blotter”.

And after calming me down
with some orange slices --------------------Reference to Maynard’s own childhood?
and some fetal spooning,
E.T. revealed to me his singular purpose.
He said, "You are the Chosen One,
the One who will deliver the message.
A message of hope for those who choose to hear it
and a warning for those who do not."
Me. The Chosen One? ---------------------------Disbelief and amazement that he should
They chose me!!! be chosen.
And I didn't even graduate from fuckin' high school. -- Why would he be chosen, he
wonders.
You'd better listen. ---------------------------------A grim piece of advice.

Then he looked right through me
With somniferous almond eyes --------------som•nif•er•ous –adjective To bring or induce
Don't even know what that means sleep.
Must remember to write it down
This is so real
Like the time Dave floated away ------------Reference to another drug trip?
See, my heart is pounding
'Cause this shit never happens to me ----Character feels like nothing exciting ever
happens to him, he feels uncertain of what to do.
I can't breathe right now! -----------Breathing difficulties; drugs or panic?





It was so real, -----------------------------Expressing doubts as to whether he was on drugs or not.
Like I woke up in Wonderland.
All sorta terrifying
I don't wanna be all alone ----------------He is scared and alone faced with this mission.
While I tell this story.
And can anyone tell me why
Y'all sound like Peanuts parents? ------Under the influence of psilocybin, speech sounds like that
Will I ever be coming down? Charlie Brown’s parents in the cartoon Peanuts; difficult to
This is so real understand.
Finally, it's my lucky day -------------Sarcasm or irony?
See, my heart is racing
'Cause this shit never happens to me --Repition of earlier sentiment.

I can't breathe right now! --------------He is in a hospital, maybe he is having a panic attack.

You believe me, don't you? --------------A real desire to be believed.
Please believe what I've just said!
See the Dead ain't touring --------------The Grateful Dead, see above.
And this wasn't all in my head.
See, they took me by the hand --------They; more than one alien, but only one is mentioned
And invited me right in. prior to this.
Then they showed me something
I don't even know where to begin. -----What was it? No other reference is made to it.

Strapped down [to] my bed ------------This comes after a long musical interlude. He has been
Feet cold [and] eyes red to the psychiatric ward and is strapped to a bed. He is
I'm out of my head confused and probably sedated. Tragically, he can’t
Am I alive? Am I dead? remember what the alien said to him.
Can't remember what they said
God damn, shit the bed. -------And apparently, he has become incontinent.

Hey ...

Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position. --Here he describes his feelings in a very
Such a heavy burden now to be the One moving and emotional passage. He accepts
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending, his mission, it seems.
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen -----------------------------------------But the trivial human factor comes into
Shit the bed again ... play, and possibly dooms us all. He feels
Typical. like he has let everyone down, again.

Strapped down [to] my bed
Feet cold and eyes red
I'm out of my head
Am I alive? Am I dead?
Sun kissed and Sudafed -------------------------------Back in his bed, grounded with the weight
Gyroscopes and infrared of his misfortune; he feels he is beyond help.
Won't help, I'm brain dead
Can't remember what they said --------------------------Reiterates his memory loss, but he wants to
God damn, shit the bed remember.

I can't remember what they said to me
Can't remember what they said to make me out to be the hero
Can't remember what they said --------------------------His memory loss is really affecting his mind
Bob help me! and he calls for his assumedly absent friend
Can't remember what they said Bob for help.

[We] don't know, [and we] won't know (x12) --------We, the human race, don’t know what the
alien said, and we won’t know because the
God damn, shit the bed! character can’t remember, although before
He was strapped down, he could remember,
he just didn’t say
Old 02-13-2007, 08:17 AM   #10
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

ROSETTA STONED- Maynard James Keenan ---- The Rosetta Stone was the key to the Egyptian
hieroglyphs. Stoned refers to drugs.
Alrighty, then ... picture this if you will.

10 to 2 AM, X, Yogi, DMT ---------DMT is the strongest hallucinogen known to man.
And a box of Krispy Kremes,
in my "need to know" pose
just outside of Area 51 -----------A reference to the supposed UFO crash site in America
Contemplating
the whole "chosen people" thingy
when a flaming stealth banana split the sky, like

One would hope but never really expect ----He did not expect what was coming to him.
to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime
and stopping right at my Birkenstocks,
and me yelping...

Holy fucking shit!

Then the X-Files being, --------------------------------The first of many TV references.
Looking like some kind of blue-green Jackie Chan
with Isabella Rossellini lips, and breath that reeked of
vanilla Chig Champa ------------------------------Chig is the name of an alien race from
Did a slow-mo Matrix descent the TV show Space: Above and Beyond
Outta the butt end of the banana vessel and Champa is Asian food.
And hovered above my bug-eyes,
my gaping jaw,
and my sweaty L. Ron Hubbard upper lip,
and all I could think was,
"I hope Uncle Martin here doesn't notice --------Uncle Martian was a character in an old that I pissed my fuckin' pants." TV series called “My Favourite Martian”

So light in this way
Like an apparition, [that] --------------------Disbelief faced with the alien.
He had me crying out,
"Fuck me
It's gotta be
the Deadhead Chemistry --------------- Reference to the Grateful Dead, notorious for
The blotter got [right] on top of me their use of LSD, which is otherwise known as
Got me seein' E-motherfuckin'-T!" “blotter”.

And after calming me down
with some orange slices --------------------Reference to Maynard’s own childhood?
and some fetal spooning,
E.T. revealed to me his singular purpose.
He said, "You are the Chosen One,
the One who will deliver the message.
A message of hope for those who choose to hear it
and a warning for those who do not."
Me. The Chosen One? ---------------------------Disbelief and amazement that he should
They chose me!!! be chosen.
And I didn't even graduate from fuckin' high school. -- Why would he be chosen, he
wonders.
You'd better listen. ---------------------------------A grim piece of advice.

Then he looked right through me
With somniferous almond eyes --------------som•nif•er•ous –adjective To bring or induce
Don't even know what that means sleep.
Must remember to write it down
This is so real
Like the time Dave floated away ------------Reference to another drug trip?
See, my heart is pounding
'Cause this shit never happens to me ----Character feels like nothing exciting ever
happens to him, he feels uncertain of what to do.
I can't breathe right now! -----------Breathing difficulties; drugs or panic?





It was so real, -----------------------------Expressing doubts as to whether he was on drugs or not.
Like I woke up in Wonderland.
All sorta terrifying
I don't wanna be all alone ----------------He is scared and alone faced with this mission.
While I tell this story.
And can anyone tell me why
Y'all sound like Peanuts parents? ------Under the influence of psilocybin, speech sounds like that
Will I ever be coming down? Charlie Brown’s parents in the cartoon Peanuts; difficult to
This is so real understand.
Finally, it's my lucky day -------------Sarcasm or irony?
See, my heart is racing
'Cause this shit never happens to me --Repition of earlier sentiment.

I can't breathe right now! --------------He is in a hospital, maybe he is having a panic attack.

You believe me, don't you? --------------A real desire to be believed.
Please believe what I've just said!
See the Dead ain't touring --------------The Grateful Dead, see above.
And this wasn't all in my head.
See, they took me by the hand --------They; more than one alien, but only one is mentioned
And invited me right in. prior to this.
Then they showed me something
I don't even know where to begin. -----What was it? No other reference is made to it.

Strapped down [to] my bed ------------This comes after a long musical interlude. He has been
Feet cold [and] eyes red to the psychiatric ward and is strapped to a bed. He is
I'm out of my head confused and probably sedated. Tragically, he can’t
Am I alive? Am I dead? remember what the alien said to him.
Can't remember what they said
God damn, shit the bed. -------And apparently, he has become incontinent.

Hey ...

Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position. --Here he describes his feelings in a very
Such a heavy burden now to be the One moving and emotional passage. He accepts
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending, his mission, it seems.
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen -----------------------------------------But the trivial human factor comes into
Shit the bed again ... play, and possibly dooms us all. He feels
Typical. like he has let everyone down, again.

Strapped down [to] my bed
Feet cold and eyes red
I'm out of my head
Am I alive? Am I dead?
Sun kissed and Sudafed -------------------------------Back in his bed, grounded with the weight
Gyroscopes and infrared of his misfortune; he feels he is beyond help.
Won't help, I'm brain dead
Can't remember what they said --------------------------Reiterates his memory loss, but he wants to
God damn, shit the bed remember.

I can't remember what they said to me
Can't remember what they said to make me out to be the hero
Can't remember what they said --------------------------His memory loss is really affecting his mind
Bob help me! and he calls for his assumedly absent friend
Can't remember what they said Bob for help.

[We] don't know, [and we] won't know (x12) --------We, the human race, don’t know what the
alien said, and we won’t know because the
God damn, shit the bed! character can’t remember, although before
He was strapped down, he could remember,
he just didn’t say
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goobermensch
02-16-2007, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el-comerfordo View Post
ROSETTA STONED- Maynard James Keenan ---- The Rosetta Stone was the key to the Egyptian
hieroglyphs. Stoned refers to drugs.
Alrighty, then ... picture this if you will.

character can’t remember, although before
He was strapped down, he could remember,
he just didn’t say

ahem.. id just like to point out that everyone has access to the lyrics of the song and to wikipedia.. but thanks again for posting that very insightful set of comments we really had no idea that the song had pop culture references and was alluding to drug use.. bravo!

PS try formatting before you submit and mix up your comments with the lyrics making it a lengthy mucked up post which makes litteler sense than it does if its legible.
Old 02-16-2007, 08:54 AM   #11
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-comerfordo View Post
ROSETTA STONED- Maynard James Keenan ---- The Rosetta Stone was the key to the Egyptian
hieroglyphs. Stoned refers to drugs.
Alrighty, then ... picture this if you will.

character can’t remember, although before
He was strapped down, he could remember,
he just didn’t say

ahem.. id just like to point out that everyone has access to the lyrics of the song and to wikipedia.. but thanks again for posting that very insightful set of comments we really had no idea that the song had pop culture references and was alluding to drug use.. bravo!

PS try formatting before you submit and mix up your comments with the lyrics making it a lengthy mucked up post which makes litteler sense than it does if its legible.
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tryptosaur
03-28-2007, 01:51 PM
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These are the best posts I've read!
I think the whole irresponsible drug use thing comes down to someone who hasn't quite the vocabulary of a mystic/visionary/shaman but more the hodgepodge of cultural flotsam and jetsam that he tries to the best of his ability to utilize in describing something truly extraordinary, alien, and deeply profound. This is where so-called magickal training of some sort would show its worth. Pop-culture (Krispy-Kremes) mixed with DMT shows a strange, almost clashing kind of bringing together of psychedelic with diabetic, almost.
The feeling is undeniable, yet the thoughts areof something that was communicated in an alien-language that he, himself had to translate into something somewhat familiar, using the only set of symbols he could. Like when a detective starts gathering seemingly unrelated clues, with the faith that he'll be able to piece them together once the patterns emerge.
This guy, I believe, is in such a state of shock that he really thinks he coul have simply jotted THE message down as it was being delivered to him.
I mean if aliens do come to share some really important 411 do you really think you'd you'd be like "Excuse me while I grab my pen".
He needs to calm down first and then the patterns will begin to emerge.
Chaos is really an order that has not yet been defined.
Old 03-28-2007, 01:51 PM   #12
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

These are the best posts I've read!
I think the whole irresponsible drug use thing comes down to someone who hasn't quite the vocabulary of a mystic/visionary/shaman but more the hodgepodge of cultural flotsam and jetsam that he tries to the best of his ability to utilize in describing something truly extraordinary, alien, and deeply profound. This is where so-called magickal training of some sort would show its worth. Pop-culture (Krispy-Kremes) mixed with DMT shows a strange, almost clashing kind of bringing together of psychedelic with diabetic, almost.
The feeling is undeniable, yet the thoughts areof something that was communicated in an alien-language that he, himself had to translate into something somewhat familiar, using the only set of symbols he could. Like when a detective starts gathering seemingly unrelated clues, with the faith that he'll be able to piece them together once the patterns emerge.
This guy, I believe, is in such a state of shock that he really thinks he coul have simply jotted THE message down as it was being delivered to him.
I mean if aliens do come to share some really important 411 do you really think you'd you'd be like "Excuse me while I grab my pen".
He needs to calm down first and then the patterns will begin to emerge.
Chaos is really an order that has not yet been defined.
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ArizonaBay's Avatar ArizonaBay
03-30-2007, 04:49 PM
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^^ To add to the comment about pop culture, our 'hero' cannot convey his profound experience within terms which relate to his media saturated life (a la Vicarious) and thus forgets. Again, this song touches on a critique of 'hyper-reality' and its ability to cloud our understanding of the world.
Old 03-30-2007, 04:49 PM   #13
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

^^ To add to the comment about pop culture, our 'hero' cannot convey his profound experience within terms which relate to his media saturated life (a la Vicarious) and thus forgets. Again, this song touches on a critique of 'hyper-reality' and its ability to cloud our understanding of the world.
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HelenA's Avatar HelenA
03-31-2007, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goobermensch View Post
ahem.. id just like to point out that everyone has access to the lyrics of the song and to wikipedia.. but thanks again for posting that very insightful set of comments we really had no idea that the song had pop culture references and was alluding to drug use.. bravo!

PS try formatting before you submit and mix up your comments with the lyrics making it a lengthy mucked up post which makes litteler sense than it does if its legible.
This was the guys third post - he obviously cares about the song and has thought about it alot. Lets take it easy hey? This is the internet, serious fucking business.


Love your thoughts though. Especially the central pivotal moment of the song.
Old 03-31-2007, 04:18 AM   #14
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by goobermensch View Post
ahem.. id just like to point out that everyone has access to the lyrics of the song and to wikipedia.. but thanks again for posting that very insightful set of comments we really had no idea that the song had pop culture references and was alluding to drug use.. bravo!

PS try formatting before you submit and mix up your comments with the lyrics making it a lengthy mucked up post which makes litteler sense than it does if its legible.
This was the guys third post - he obviously cares about the song and has thought about it alot. Lets take it easy hey? This is the internet, serious fucking business.


Love your thoughts though. Especially the central pivotal moment of the song.
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CrazyJoeDevola's Avatar CrazyJoeDevola
04-02-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goobermensch View Post
Technically his tragic flaw was that he "forgot his pen" ..
Or maybe it was that he "didn't even graduate from fuckin' high school." :)
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I think this song is about old people and growing older. In the beginning of the song I believe I heard mention of watching re-runs of X-files, and old people really love that show.No one ever listens to old people. I can't remember one time when they weren't harping on about the good ol' days and talking about nonsensical things that never happened, while watching X-files, in their small and cluttered room in Happy Acres Retirement Homes, all the while they were pleading with me to listen.
Old 04-02-2007, 07:58 PM   #15
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by goobermensch View Post
Technically his tragic flaw was that he "forgot his pen" ..
Or maybe it was that he "didn't even graduate from fuckin' high school." :)
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I think this song is about old people and growing older. In the beginning of the song I believe I heard mention of watching re-runs of X-files, and old people really love that show.No one ever listens to old people. I can't remember one time when they weren't harping on about the good ol' days and talking about nonsensical things that never happened, while watching X-files, in their small and cluttered room in Happy Acres Retirement Homes, all the while they were pleading with me to listen.
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goobermensch
04-05-2007, 08:20 AM
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[QUOTE=he, himself had to translate into something somewhat familiar, using the only set of symbols he could.[/QUOTE]

Yes!! and also in the broader meaning that our minds are so polluted by media/pop culture imagery that even if the "truth" does appear to us we wouldn't know what the fuck to do.
Old 04-05-2007, 08:20 AM   #16
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

[QUOTE=he, himself had to translate into something somewhat familiar, using the only set of symbols he could.[/QUOTE]

Yes!! and also in the broader meaning that our minds are so polluted by media/pop culture imagery that even if the "truth" does appear to us we wouldn't know what the fuck to do.
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WaggySTG
05-23-2007, 08:58 PM
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Maybe he's trying to show how the perception is changed when the hero fails. We don't regard him as highly because he failed, although it could just be in his head.
Old 05-23-2007, 08:58 PM   #17
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Maybe he's trying to show how the perception is changed when the hero fails. We don't regard him as highly because he failed, although it could just be in his head.
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insaner's Avatar insaner
06-06-2007, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EssnayRepXTamEt View Post
Cool post, but tragedies require certain things... one of those things is the Tragic Hero, which this song lacks.

The Tragic Hero:
1. is not a regular person. Cannot be average, needs to be somebody "great." The song lacks this...
2. The person must be essentially good. We have no evidence of this in the song.
3. They need to have a tragic flaw, such as hubris. Or failing to learn from his/her mistakes. There's nothing of the like in the song.

The song is basically about a normal guy who has an adventure of some sort. Which doesn't qualify for a tragedy. The audience needs to be able to feel a sympathy or some sort of other emotion for the character. And it's hard to feel something for a guy who takes a shit load of drugs and trips out because of it. I feel no emotions for such a character, other than humour. But I don't sympathize, or feel bad for the guy. He was nothing to me...



I see your points though, and it's very interesting, indeed. Nice post.

within your post lies the key to the understanding of this song. all hero stories start out with a normal guy going on adventures of some sort. the encounter tragedies, and the either overcome them or they are defeated.

that being said, the audience is supposed to feel sympathy for the character, because the intended audience of the song is those who have been there. i totally sympathize with the character, because i have been exactly where he has been. you do not feel any sympathy, because you havent been there. theres nothing to be ashamed of for that, more power to you. but i can assure you, once you have lived through what it is that is being described in this song, you have a connection to the song that someone who hasnt been there would never be able to grasp.

i am not suggesting that others try drugs, but im sure anyone else who has felt this understands exactly what it is that i am saying.

this song is a fucking masterpiece.

Last edited by insaner; 06-06-2007 at 10:20 PM..
Old 06-06-2007, 10:16 PM   #18
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by EssnayRepXTamEt View Post
Cool post, but tragedies require certain things... one of those things is the Tragic Hero, which this song lacks.

The Tragic Hero:
1. is not a regular person. Cannot be average, needs to be somebody "great." The song lacks this...
2. The person must be essentially good. We have no evidence of this in the song.
3. They need to have a tragic flaw, such as hubris. Or failing to learn from his/her mistakes. There's nothing of the like in the song.

The song is basically about a normal guy who has an adventure of some sort. Which doesn't qualify for a tragedy. The audience needs to be able to feel a sympathy or some sort of other emotion for the character. And it's hard to feel something for a guy who takes a shit load of drugs and trips out because of it. I feel no emotions for such a character, other than humour. But I don't sympathize, or feel bad for the guy. He was nothing to me...



I see your points though, and it's very interesting, indeed. Nice post.

within your post lies the key to the understanding of this song. all hero stories start out with a normal guy going on adventures of some sort. the encounter tragedies, and the either overcome them or they are defeated.

that being said, the audience is supposed to feel sympathy for the character, because the intended audience of the song is those who have been there. i totally sympathize with the character, because i have been exactly where he has been. you do not feel any sympathy, because you havent been there. theres nothing to be ashamed of for that, more power to you. but i can assure you, once you have lived through what it is that is being described in this song, you have a connection to the song that someone who hasnt been there would never be able to grasp.

i am not suggesting that others try drugs, but im sure anyone else who has felt this understands exactly what it is that i am saying.

this song is a fucking masterpiece.

Last edited by insaner; 06-06-2007 at 10:20 PM..
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Matthew77's Avatar Matthew77
06-13-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insaner View Post
within your post lies the key to the understanding of this song. all hero stories start out with a normal guy going on adventures of some sort. the encounter tragedies, and the either overcome them or they are defeated.

that being said, the audience is supposed to feel sympathy for the character, because the intended audience of the song is those who have been there. i totally sympathize with the character, because i have been exactly where he has been. you do not feel any sympathy, because you havent been there. theres nothing to be ashamed of for that, more power to you. but i can assure you, once you have lived through what it is that is being described in this song, you have a connection to the song that someone who hasnt been there would never be able to grasp.

i am not suggesting that others try drugs, but im sure anyone else who has felt this understands exactly what it is that i am saying.

this song is a fucking masterpiece.
Well put! I totally agree with you!
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:06 PM   #19
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by insaner View Post
within your post lies the key to the understanding of this song. all hero stories start out with a normal guy going on adventures of some sort. the encounter tragedies, and the either overcome them or they are defeated.

that being said, the audience is supposed to feel sympathy for the character, because the intended audience of the song is those who have been there. i totally sympathize with the character, because i have been exactly where he has been. you do not feel any sympathy, because you havent been there. theres nothing to be ashamed of for that, more power to you. but i can assure you, once you have lived through what it is that is being described in this song, you have a connection to the song that someone who hasnt been there would never be able to grasp.

i am not suggesting that others try drugs, but im sure anyone else who has felt this understands exactly what it is that i am saying.

this song is a fucking masterpiece.
Well put! I totally agree with you!
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PenusMeanly
07-29-2007, 05:51 AM
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And after calming me down
with some orange slices --------------------Reference to Maynard’s own childhood?
Um, the reference to orange slices is due to the fact that vitamin C in oranges is known to counteract the effects of LSD and other hallucinogens.
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:51 AM   #20
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Re: A Touch of Tragedy; and other minute but significant details i noticed

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-comerfordo View Post
And after calming me down
with some orange slices --------------------Reference to Maynard’s own childhood?
Um, the reference to orange slices is due to the fact that vitamin C in oranges is known to counteract the effects of LSD and other hallucinogens.
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