Don't worry roggles! You've never insulted me. I was speaking in general terms. You're one of the few XKD-lovers that isn't some n00b idiot fan boi. :P

And to whoever asked for what we would like if not XKD:
I'm not going to say what I wanted, because I honestly don't know. I DO know, however, that XKD was not it. I think I was expecting a more epic album, like Lateralus or Aenima. XKD just seems like it's 15 minutes long to me; and that 15 minutes is predominantly repetition.

I think 10K is excellent, personally, although I could see your point about "epicness" (I know that's not a word). Although to be fair, the album definitely has its moments, in that regard.

Still just wish that the filler time could have been used for 1 more song, but oh well. Maybe next time

One thing which people forget is this is only the second Tool album which is ENTIRELY Maynard, Danny, Adam and Justin. Give them some time.

I agree with the setlist..a little variety or surprise would be nice..they arent to young anymore they play live shows almost everyday travel etc, so its normal they are not in perfect shape some nights there is not a band in the world that can pull that of..and i think they know they r in a point o their careers where they can really have some privileges like not getting a video at all which is not so far away from what they do normally since no one watch the videos anyways except guys in here lol... people dont like 10,000 days cause they cant relate to it, its about maynard and his feelings for his mom but u dont want that oh no, that has nothing to do with u lateralus is so much better guess why?

I think overall the 10,000 Days era, if you want to call it that, has been a strange one, even for Tool. First it was the recycled album artwork, then it was laughable song titles, and now we have no music video, and the site hasn't been touched.

I don't mean to sound whiney, but it's just odd.

And yes, I do like 10,000 Days. Somewhat.

I'm with you on this one Dadelus. It's funny that every 10,000 Days enthusiast makes assupmtions about those who don't think it's as good: " OMFG IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU ARE NOT A TRUE FAN LIKE ME" or, more amusing still "OMG YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU MUST WANT TOOL TO WRITE LATERALUS II".

For me, what I was expecting was another album of four musicians in tune with exploring new avenues about themselves. It didn't deliver. This album is the least unified sounding as they have ever released, and a few added harmonies by Maynard just doesn't cut it as true exploration like they used to do.

That coupled with the fact they all said LOL WE'RE BEING INFLUENCED BY MESHUGGAH ON THIS ALBUM, and then just did one tremelo effect like they've done before, over some chugga chugga chords, and I'm left feeling that they've lost their touch a little.

I believe that Aenima was the peak of this band's career.
Since that era it has been a slow but steady decline in every aspect.

Ten years is a long fucking time. The idea that an aging rock star deserves more credence is not one that I would subscribe to. Rock musicians have a short shelf life before they become parodies of themselves.

Tool are about to jumb the shark.

The more popular Tool grow, the less they are able to relate to their audience. This distance has grown vastly more apparent.

The live shows have grown steadily tamer.

The idea that the band has morphed into a more cohesive unit could be restated as their leader, if you will, has shuffled his feet into the background.
i.e. he don't give a damn no more

The vocal ability of the singer has changed. Maynard resonates less technically, to state it kindly. Judge for yourself by listening to the bootlegs.

The DIY attitude has been deligated.

They have seriously aged.
Everyone is limited by time.
There's nothing wrong with that, people get older, less inspired, turn towards other interests. It's only all too human.

oh yeah... and right about the time when a band starts shooting lasers at you and blowing smoke in your eyes you've got to realize that the gig is up. The curtain is about to be pulled back to reveal a sight that you may refuse to believe...

They need to stop making every song with an open drop D Riff. And Maynard needs to get off of his fucking high horse and put more effort into live performances (the same setlist every single night is just plain lazy/uninspired)

They need to explore new areas...Which is what I thought they did with Lateralus and it was awesome...But this album showed very small progression since Lateralus...I has its kicks obviously but I can honestly say this is the only Tool album where EVERY single song didn't blow my mind. If I had to take a guess I'd say they're getting older and it's becomming less fun to them. Adam Jones once said in an interview from the Laterlus cd era - "The day Tool ends will be the day it isnt fun anymore"..

I think that day is gonna come soon.

blood, I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for that. That was a great post.

twin, I disagree that there was small progression since Lateralus. I believe there was the exact opposite; they took 2 steps back.

I too hope Tool calls it quits before they end up like Metallica. I wouldn't be mad at all if they did. They were (and are) a great band. Just quit while you're still ahead, imo.

Totall agreed, Mcroggles. Needless to say, I absolutely love 10K and is little by little becoming my all tme fav Tool album.And Aenima is certainly NOT the pineacle of Tool´s career (in fact I´ve always thought Pushit is one of their worst-least good songs...by far)

Well, roogles, you're an acception.

No, she is not. And it's "exception", FYI. 10K Days IS a masterpiece whereas the other CDs, regardless of certain people's loyalty to either Aenima and/or Lateralus, were mere stepping stones to where they are now. Those that don't get that may have very well "grown out" of TOOL. Congratulations to all of you! You have graduated and can move on to all the supposed "better music". Be sure to keep us informed of what is better that we're all missing. It surely isn't System of a Down or myriad other bands I've seen named in similar threads. Why can't this particular discussion become closed??? It's old and it's tired.

It's not they are our slaves that do whatever we want. They are people too and when they get around to new things they will. Hell, I'd like a DVD or Vicarious vid too but Im not gunna get upset about it. Maybe they have lost interest, maybe they haven't. It is not something you can control. They all have theri other projects that they enjoy too. (Maynard=Puscifer/Wine+Adam=Art/Video+Justin=Boating/Bookstore+Danny=Tabla/Magick etc.)

Maybe they are trying to enjoy their lives a little bit. They are all getting older and I'm sure they don't want to constantly write songs and tour (as much that would be great). But they just got to do their thing... they aren't trying to impress anyone. They do what they do when they want to because they can.

End of Story.

Pardon the spelling error.

I'd say your post is 100% opinion and 0% fact. So pull your head out of your fan boi ass.

10,000 Days is not a decline in standard for Tool, but the live shows are.

I think the two walk hand-in-hand.

I am entirely in agreement with AloneOnceAgain97, and entirely in disagreement with TOOL_Rules. I think the fact he couldn't choose a better name than 'TOOL_Rules' proves his opinions aren't to be taken seriously (and why does everyone write Tool in caps anyway?)

I cannot put music on a scale, since I enjoy it so much. I cannot say 10,000 Days is better than Lateralus, since I enjoy both. If one person says 10K Days is crap, fine. It's crap to that person. Let other people enjoy it. On the other hand, if you love the album, fine. Don't shove that belief down a supposed hater's throat. I don't think they've faltered; I think of each album as a progression. Just my opinion, as is every post in this thread. Feel free to agree, disagree, whatever. Please don't assume you know everything; 10K Days is an album, nothing more, nothing less.

10,000 days is maybe my least favorite Tool album, but it is still a solid album. There is no rule that says to be a relevant artist you must keep one-upping yourself. I can't stand any Led Zeppelin albums after Houses of the Holy (even that album isn't very good). Pink Floyd's albums after The Wall are even worse. That is a long way from saying Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd faltered, as if a sub par album negates everything else they have accomplished. As far as the concerts go, what if Tool is completely sick of touring? Can you blame them? Maybe they keep using the same setlist so everyone will get tired of it and stop making them do more shows. Or maybe they think it is funny that people complain about the quality of the concerts but keep buying tickets anyway.

the problem with 10,000 days is that it feels empty, all the songs sound and feel the same, there is no great diversity in them any more, it all sounds a bit undertow-esque and that is not a good move for a progressive band

I don't think 10,000 days sounds empty at all (although I do respect your, and other's, opinions). I can understand fans being surprised at the 'new' album because it is different. It IS different from Lateralus. BUT I don't think it is empty. Wings/Marie is FULL (IMO) full of emotion and great lyrics and the music is excellent. And 'Right in Two" is great! And I still LOVE Vicarious even though I listen to it every day.

And I agree with Cynical - they are a band making an album. They don't owe us anything. We should just let them be - let them do their thing. And if we like it then we buy it and play it (and think and listen) and if we don't then that's fine. Move on. Buy your own winery ...whatever. But it isn't like they have to worry about what we think.

I started listening to Tool on Undertow...I fell in love with that album...From there I heard Aenima, and then check out Opiate....So I wanted something more raw....Even on Lateralus there are those raw moments like on "Ticks and Leeches", "Reflection", and "The Grudge"..and I completely love Lateralis as a whole album...I think they were taking their music into the right direction in a sense that after listening to that it seemed as if there were an endless amount of possiblities with Tool....

For me, I wanted to hear them go back to their roots...the rock....I dont really care what anyone thinks but as a long time tool fan...this album as a whole feels empty as do Maynards lyrics...I mean...The Pot, Right In Two, and Vicarious are all about political shit....What else do you have? Jambi, Rosetta Stoned, and Intension, and Wings/10KD... which is about his mom and one of those is about aliens....So you really have two songs on the whole album just based on maynards raw emotions....That being said, how can this album not feel empty? Maybe to the average moronic tool fan who just became a fan when 10KD came out, but not us old school ones....You arent fooling us...

Maynard heres a suggestion - This is Tool...We dont want to hear about your political beliefs....We want to hear emotional/personal/and yet hard to figure out type shit that we've grown to love. Keep that bullshit in A Perfect Circles "Emotive"...Holy shit you'd think he would have gotten all of his political shit out on that album...

There are a lot of moments on 10KD when I was like ".....hmm....ok....ok....yep....Ive heard almost that exact thing on a Tool album before..." And that to me means that they aren't progressing...I could name examples but any idiot can figure it out...

Basically, I think they started too late....The pinnacle of Tools live show I think was the Aenima Tour...But as far as physical musical talent it had to be lateralis...They seriously did some legendary shit on that tour...and they still mixed in a couple of old rarities in the show...

I remember when I saw them on the Lateralis tour......I believe it was in Dallas - American Airlines...But they played "Undertow" AND "Eulogy" ...It was the greatest concert Ive ever been too...Then a year later on the same tour at the Ft.Woth Convention Center... It was amazing b/c there were christian protesters outside...and opened with "Flood" and that went straight into sober (which at that time was kind of rare to hear but this past year with the same setlist over and over it was played the fuck out live....I mean not enjoyable really anymore live, but back then it was a treat!).....And then....Maynard gave a speech about the protesters...and proceeded to go into Opiate...That was also the same show where Maynard came out on the last song of Tomahawks set as "Reverend Maynard" and Ripped a bible to shreds and threw it into the crowd...

You see...Its special and random moments like these that seperate the 10KD Tour apart from any previous tours/shows.... Thats why all of these people who have only seen tool on the 10KD tour if you look on the tour reviews "OH MY GOD!! TOOL TOTALLY BLEW MY FUCKING MIND"...What else could you expect from a first timer? Course they blew your fucking mind...They're one of the greatest bands of all time...Im just saying for the record - .......

There has been a Faltering since Lateralus.

Well, I'm slightly different. Lateralus rocks harder than Undertow. Undertow is simple, generic and dated sounding.

Simply, all Tool would have had to have done was produce an album that sounded as unified as Lateralus or Aenima. In 10,000 Days they all sound on different pages. There's no gelling here. I care not what direction they take their sound in, what I love about Tool has nothing to do with genre, it has to do with their attitude as a band, which I think they completely missed with 10,000 Days. All that shit about 'more brutal riffs than Lateralus', and 'being heavily influenced by Meshuggah' was all rubbish. Adam is louder, but his musicianship has taken a step back on 10k Days, he was seemlessly integrated on Lateralus, it was the unified sound of 4 people being one band, but he stands out like a sore thumb on 10k Days. Justin sticks out because he's superseded Adam as a musician within Tool. Danny's parts or more cultured in general, but I'm sorry, at the beginning of Jambi where all he does is hit the kick every crotchet, it just sound shit, in every respect. Maynard doesn't sound like his heart is in it any more, and his lyrics have taken a drastic step down in poetic values (for me).

They missed, pure and simply. A pretty good album, but not up to Tools potential, and by no means a masterpiece. Anyone who holds this a as masterpiece above Lateralus, I really feel have missed something quite amazing and quite fundamental about Lateralus.

Pushit= a 10 min song that feels like 35 to me
Wings 1/2= a 18 min song that feels like 4 min to me
That means progression, that means better songwriting... and saying that Maynard´s heart is not there is ...oh well
I could go on and on putting examples, but...whatever. I don´t have that much time to waste

Hey Bob Ross: I think the album is a mess and not very cohesive. I am really trying to like this album. I have a show tonight in Camden to attend and for the money I spent and to see the same old boring setlist , I must admit I am not psyched. Rosetta Stoned sounds like Third Eye's retarded little stepbrother. I know this is the 10,000 days period, and every other album had it's day in the sun....but don't tell me APC influence/sound can be heard on this. You can't compartmentalize Maynard and I realize he needs to grow and evolve. Apc is great. Obviously, I like Tool. But I want two distinct sounds. Just don't understand how this album is considered a masterpiece. Hope the show tonight doesnt reinforce my opinion and instead binds me to the album.

[QUOTE=FatAssDirtyDollar;1438830]You can't compartmentalize Maynard and I realize he needs to grow and evolve. QUOTE]

Ummm wouldn't that be devolve or maybe go back to his roots (the ones that you liked). Or do you mean take it back in the same direction of lateralus (which i guess would be going back anyway).

and equally, Rosetta Stoned is an 11 minute bloated mishmash of rehashed riffs done in a not very inspiring way, until you reach *that* section at 7 mins where it's actual new music, and *that* one bit when Maynard actually reaches a climax for the only time in the album. That means not as good songwriting...



Where's the example in '...oh well'?

Maynard shines on a few odd sections in 10k Days. Danny shines on that 4way independence section on Rosetta, Justin shines on many occasions, Adam rarely shines, apart from the talk box solo. But at no stage do the four members ever, yes, EVER, join to make Tool, the entity so clearly in evidence on Aenima and Lateralus.

I disagree with the initial post. I, as a fan of Tool, am completely satisfied with 10,000 Days. I have also seen them live and beg to differ about them being too loud and subpar in their playing. Tool is their own band, the don't need to be like Zeppelin or Black Sabbath and put out an album every 2 years, let them do their own thing. I can't stand it when people attack Tool for all of their hard work.

I guess I spoke too soon... it seems that there are others on the board that can relate to my mindframe.

right!

i just think tool are behind their best times. for my part, 10,000 days is not my favourite album (which doesn't mean that i don't like it), but we just CAN'T expect the new 'masterpiece of the century' with every album. it seems some guys can't get over that....

I think the key to all of this is to go to a Tool show and look around. There are so many different types of people, from all walks of life, and every different age group, with one thing in common. They're all the weirdo from their respective groups. I find myself thinking "Who the fuck ARE these people?" And then I realize they're the mirror image of myself, and that other people think the same thing about me... The point, though, is that with all these different people, OF COURSE everyone is going to have different perspectives on the music. That one common thread is that we all like the music or we wouldn't be here, but we sure as hell aren't going to hear the same album or see the same show, or like the same ice cream flavors (but we all like the damn ice cream!), or like the same colors, or the same dildos, or the same poop sandwiches, or whatever....and I see that others feel the same way, but some of these crazed "Tools" are freaking me out....

dongface

LMFAO! God I would have been paralyzed with laughter!

And that's EXACTLY how I see it about first-timers.

Man, so much wisdom to quote in this thread.

Hate to triple post, but Jim here's got truth and wisdom comin' out his ass.

QFT
QFW

here, here

dadelaus what are you talking about? Setlist issues and mistakes in concert? Hmmm if you like flawless go see Backstreet Boys. I heard they were as flawless as it can be.

As a first timer (and we all have to start somewhere) THIS is exactly what I hope I will be saying in January:

But I love Lateralus. And hey, good on you for being an old-timer Tool fan. You were ahead of the game (at least ahead of my game) but if they can still capture new fans then they must be doing something right on 10,000 days. I know lots of people (well maybe not LOTS) who heard Tool through 10kd and are major fans now. They really have what it takes. I reckon they are getting better and better (although Lateralus is a very cool album, and, actually I love Aenima as well).

I understand your concerns here about the Toolband site lacking, no live DVD release and the set list being the same for so long. I feel the same about this, but, I don't think that the band is going to fall off the map anytime soon. Although I don't think they will ever recreate the magic of Aenima and Lateralus (which I think is their best work) I don't feel like they are losing their touch either. Things change, the guys are getting older, Maynard seems to be the one who is losing interest, appearing bored on stage sometimes but after singing stinkfist for so long I understand, ya know. I disagree with you about the concerts, I still think that Tool is putting on a better show than just about anyone and I understand music on many levels. They sounded tighter than ever to me this last time around, the energy just isn't the same as before. So is something up? Probably just our expectations when we remember the Lateralus days. I wouldn't underestimate these guys, they know what the hell they're doing so I wouldn't give up on them.