I'm not trying to start a flamewar. I think Tool's work on this disk is under par for that band. It's a good cd. I still enjoy listening to it occasionally, but it is not spinning as often as the other ones.
Reasons
1. It's not as deep
2. It's loud and boisterous, rather than the enjoayable loud and emotional
3. The drumming isn't as inventive.
any thoughts?
pacifister
__________________ "Painting a picture, composing an opera, that's just something you do until you find the next willing piece of ass. The minute something better than sex comes along, you call me. Have me paged. For sure, even the worst blow job is better than say, sniffing the best rose...watching the greatest sunset. Hearing children laugh."
-Chuck P, Choke
Think of Tools music as a cheeseless veggie pizza.
Youve got:
-Capsicum
-Fresh Tomato
-Onion
-and Mushroom.
Now. Although you dont like onion on your pizza, its adds to the flavour of the pizza as a whole and the pizza wouldnt taste right without it.
This is the same as Opiate. It completes Tools music. Without it something would be missing. It completes the puzzle.
I'm very fond of Opiate, it was the second tool cd i got, i'm happy that it happened that way. the cd brings a lighter note to tool in which i mean every one great comes from a humble begining and if your thinking of tool you have to think of them as a whole and can't exclude opiate. and as for being the worse cd i'd say salival not because of the music but because that there wasn't very many songs and a number of them weren't new just maynard's dick and maybe the you lied and no quarter for those who don't get bootleg cds or search kazaa. But thats just me.
Originally posted by pacifister 1. It's not as deep
while this is true and the only reason you gave that I agree with, I don't think it makes the album any less good. Songs being deep is not necessarily a requirement. More of a luxery that we get to enjoy because Tool writes so much that is. Sometimes you wanna hear stuff just for shits & giggles. At least I do anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by pacifister 2. It's loud and boisterous, rather than the enjoayable loud and emotional
I like loud angry music. Which is one of the reasons I like Tool more then I like any other bands, they are capable of being awesome at whatever direction they choose to go with the music. For someone lik eme who loves heavy music, after hearing laid back mellow music for a while at a show, then all of a sudden you get some kick-ass tune like Jerk-off come on, I just go crazy. But I love that shit.
Quote:
Originally posted by pacifister 3. The drumming isn't as inventive.
I'm not a drummer, so I do not feel it is fair to have an opinion about this.
*shocked*
Comments like that wont be tolerated on this board you sacreligious bum.
I knew that this reaction would come. I listen to tool because of the musical depth and simply groundbreaking sounds. But opiate just don't is good enough
I knew that this reaction would come. I listen to tool because of the musical depth and simply groundbreaking sounds. But opiate just don't is good enough
Dont worry.
Im just fucking around.
Ill admit Opiate isnt really very deep or groundbreaking (some may disagree) so its fair enough if you dont like it as much as the other 3 Tool CD's.
opiate and aenema are may favorite tool cds because i think they spotlight best what the band is capable of. exept for a couple songs undertow just doesnt have the energy or urgency of those two albums. lateralus though i have a love/hate relationship with. sometimes i think its just a great fucking album and other times i just think its a bunch of quasi spiritual bullshit. aenema on the other hand is a beast of an album that is just totally relentless and broad in its scope. i like opiate because it just fucking rocks, basically. jerk-off and cold and ugly are fucking fantastic. when i first heard it i was a little taken aback because i had just heard aenema and it wasnt what i was expecting but its come to be one of my favorite tool albums just for the raw intensity of the lyrics and the music. i dont know if this really relates to this thread but oh well. enjoy
Opiate was TOOL's first attempt to be seen in the music business. When the band wrote Opiate they were trying to make an "angry" cd becuase that was popular. I've heard maynard say it himself, Tool was trying to make a popular sounding CD so they could get recignized in the industry. Opiate is a great introduction to TOOL's meening, the title track refers to the corruption in the church. Opiate is not the deepest CD ever, I'll say that straight up...but when you really read up on tool...you see that their influences include "king crimson"....read some crimson lyrics...its garbage...the music was and is the best part of crimson.
Thats not to say that TOOL's lyrics are garbage...
Maynard is a great writer and puts a lot of effort into his songs, but I also think that maynard realizes how miniscule the lyrics are in the shadow of the music.
Opiate is a shallow CD musically and lyrically, but that doesn't meen its a bad CD. It was TOOL's attempt to be noticed...and aparently, it worked.
Originally posted by the reverend Think of Tools music as a cheeseless veggie pizza.
Youve got:.
Reverend; that was quite possibly the most ridiculously awesome interpretation that I've ever heard regarding anything in my entire life. I would like to thank you.
Originally posted by Sora Reverend; that was quite possibly the most ridiculously awesome interpretation that I've ever heard regarding anything in my entire life. I would like to thank you.
Oh my God...
How can you say that Opiate isn't complex?
Look at the drum patterns in the song Opiate... at the end.. I mean.. its just a taste of things to come.. This album DOES fucking rule, and while its not their best or even remotely their most mature, when it came out, this cd was THE SHIT.
Also this is the only album where Adam actually takes a *real* guitar solo. It starts at 2:38 on Cold and Ugly.. he basically just noodles in D minor Pentatonic, but hey, its still cool! =)
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Maybe it's just me, but if this album isn't that deep show me it's not by divulging the entire meaning of every song. I will admit that the lyrics aren't as deep, the music isn't as well put together, and that it's not a shockingly as original as the rest. However in no way is it some clone and another un-original rock album.
Let me point out that this CD also came out in 92.. Thats 11 years ago.. The music around that particular time was horrible.. Give them credit, it's a great cd.
its basically a prequil (sp) to tools densley rythmic style etc... back then they wer still finding how thare music wud b u can see traces of their later style in many songs and we all take for granted how good it actually is becuz alla the other tool albums ar so amazing in case some of u havnt noticed this album kix ass! tho may b not as much as some of the others
I love it with all my being. Well maybe not much but I feel the same about Opiate as I do all the other Tool albums. So then I guess I do love it with all my being....
like everyone else said, it was the first album. I think it's equally as good as all the rest of them. think about it...without this album you wouldn't notice or appreciate the evolution of the band. maybe it isn't as deep, but who says you have to be deep ALL THE FUCKIN' TIME....I love it
It was a fuck you album more or less. Along with songs about masturbation. They has a lot of pent up aggression they needed to let out. To say that it wasn't deep is pure bullshit. I mean shit there is so much anger and frustration in Opiate it's almost overhwleming. Not to be confused with hatred. "WE DO NOT HATE, NEITHER SHOULD YOU"
BTW Pick your words better next time. "The least good Tool CD" doesn't sit with me too well.
__________________ "a mass of gallon sloth, as flys have walls for feet, a rapturous-verbatim-someone said but who's to know, and when you find the fringe, the one last hit that spent you, you'll find the ossuary is spilling by the day"
Originally posted by DemiGodRaven Can't exactly expect the work of a god from the very first album/experience you get from any band can you? I still think it was a good album though
Actually, I disagree. If any of you here know/like Cradle of Filth, their first album was god. Not a work of god, but a virtual god itself. The album was entitled The Principle of Evil Made Flesh, for anyone interested.
__________________ Love could've conquered all,
Love could've conquered...
Hate!
Well, in my opinion there are many bands who have their best album as their debut...
Machine Head, Korn, Rage Against The Machine, System Of A Down, Incubus, Amen...
I think Opiate loses to other Tool albums but it's still hell of an album.
S.C.I.E.N.C.E. was the only good Incubus CD. Let me know if that's the first or not.
__________________ "a mass of gallon sloth, as flys have walls for feet, a rapturous-verbatim-someone said but who's to know, and when you find the fringe, the one last hit that spent you, you'll find the ossuary is spilling by the day"
Science is the second Incubus cd. Enjoy Incubus was the first (or actually Fungus Amongus) and I think it's maybe better than Science though it has only six songs. I love Science too.
Originally posted by 4th Eye Science is the second Incubus cd. Enjoy Incubus was the first (or actually Fungus Amongus) and I think it's maybe better than Science though it has only six songs. I love Science too.
shit yeah, science is their best... "morning view" sucks basically... and i think that system of a down's debut was WAAAAY better then their big commercial breakthrough, "toxicity"!!
Originally posted by eulogy508 shit yeah, science is their best... "morning view" sucks basically... and i think that system of a down's debut was WAAAAY better then their big commercial breakthrough, "toxicity"!!
I most definitely agree about the system of a down debut....and I was beginning to think I was the ONLY person on the planet that thought that way....
Now way man. Same hear. Steal this Album and Toxicity come no where close.
__________________ "a mass of gallon sloth, as flys have walls for feet, a rapturous-verbatim-someone said but who's to know, and when you find the fringe, the one last hit that spent you, you'll find the ossuary is spilling by the day"
"lateralus though i have a love/hate relationship with. sometimes i think its just a great fucking album and other times i just think its a bunch of quasi spiritual bullshit."
take away lateralus for a week, then listen to it....you will know that you've come back home.
Originally posted by cradled Toxicity is one of the greatest rock albums of all time.
Just because it has melody in it doesn't mean it sucks.
there's just something about toxicity that makes me want to puke, i dont know if its serj's voice or the repetitive guitar riffs, i just can't stand most of that album any more. I'd take tool over s.o.a.d. anyday, anytime.
I agree that System's debut was their best cd, but both Toxicity and Steal This Album were also very good. It doesnt matter how commercialized Toxicity was, it was a very well made cd and deserves credit.
Opiate is a necessary piece of Tool's music. It doesnt have the deepness that the later albums have, but it shows how incredibly talented and diverse that Tool really are. Face it, for the band's first cd, its an incredible work of art. Every song on it has great meaning and musical intensity. How many bands do you know that release a first cd with as much intensity as Opiate? I think SOAD come close, but RATM, Incubus, Korn, and Machine Head were nowhere near as musically talented as Tool when they first stepped into the industry. You can say that Opiate isnt as good as the other 3 albums, but give them kudos on making a great cd.
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter I agree that System's debut was their best cd, but both Toxicity and Steal This Album were also very good. It doesnt matter how commercialized Toxicity was, it was a very well made cd and deserves credit.
Opiate is a necessary piece of Tool's music. It doesnt have the deepness that the later albums have, but it shows how incredibly talented and diverse that Tool really are. Face it, for the band's first cd, its an incredible work of art. Every song on it has great meaning and musical intensity. How many bands do you know that release a first cd with as much intensity as Opiate? I think SOAD come close, but RATM, Incubus, Korn, and Machine Head were nowhere near as musically talented as Tool when they first stepped into the industry. You can say that Opiate isnt as good as the other 3 albums, but give them kudos on making a great cd.
i think it is pretty unfair that korn got all the hype for "inventing new metal", when tool already had two albums out. Not that they should've been called new metal, it's just that, tool is very underrated when it comes to magazine articles like "best albums of modern metal".... they're always not on it or at the bottom of the list. why? korn are always number one. But if you think about it, Korn are ten times less talented as tool, and tool deserve (or deserved) more credit. Opiate was a fine, fine recording, with a sound we'll probably never hear in any upcoming record of theirs.
now im not saying that opiate is the best album, but i still cant say a single bad thing about it. i seriously hate live versions of songs, but jerk-off and cold and ugly are some of the only exceptions. because they are both good songs and the sound isnt shitty like with many live versions.
