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NowisMytimE's Avatar NowisMytimE
10-30-2006, 11:00 PM
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If this was before mention please disregard with some mercy -

The Sefirot in Kabbalah; 22 paths; perhaps the "lyrics" in Vinginti Tres relate to a 23rd path? Seems more appropriate for a Lateralus theory but...
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Old 10-30-2006, 11:00 PM   #1
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Tree of life

If this was before mention please disregard with some mercy -

The Sefirot in Kabbalah; 22 paths; perhaps the "lyrics" in Vinginti Tres relate to a 23rd path? Seems more appropriate for a Lateralus theory but...
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MORNING_GLORY
10-30-2006, 11:39 PM
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I'm know little about the kabbalah... but isnt there a hidden sephira? Daath?
Old 10-30-2006, 11:39 PM   #2
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Re: Tree of life

I'm know little about the kabbalah... but isnt there a hidden sephira? Daath?
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Q'ayin
11-02-2006, 01:36 AM
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There is a bit of quibbling over terms which is worth mentiong.

"Paths" is an intuitively appealing word when it comes to the 'beams/bridges' connecting the spheres and translations can seem easy to debate. Often "Paths" refers to these connective routes between the spheres (Sephiroth) as well as the passage through each Sephira itself. Thus yielding 32 paths.

Da'at is sometimes seen as an Eleventh Sephira, if the roots/beard of the tree are assigned numbers 1-3 prior to Kether (not the most sound reasoning) it can even be construed as the 14th 'Sephira' which is a misleading over-application of the word unto the roots; the Ayn, the (Ayn-)Sof and the (Ayn-Sof-)Aur.

Other ways that Da'at has been interpretted that I know of:

The prior emanative form or precursor to Malkuth before The Fall: a descent from it's original place in alignment with the throat shakra/force of knowledge/ gnosis / logos into it's current manifest location at the bottom of the tree.

A residual energy left behind in the stead of the since-absent Da'at.

A resultant force which is (or has occupied) a vacuum ("The Abyss") left behind from the Descent.

Merely a note-worthy lacuna within the energy of the tree but With-Out a distinctive force of it's own of either a residual or resultant nature.

Sometimes it is viewed as being restorable to it's original nature, and this can be seen as anything from a natural post-enlightenment /death /redemption process on an individual scale to the final dissolution of the world which some 'dark' and gnostic religions proscribe in order to cure us of the "curse" of (illusory) physical manifestation.


Finally, if you want to talk about a twenty-third of something in the tree the term that comes to my mind is "Keys", this is the term sometimes used for the bridges in exclusion to the 'passages' of the spheres themselves. There are 21 Keys connecting the spheres in the Tree's most common two-dimensional representation...

When Da'at is seen as a force which exists even while Malkuth is present in it's Fallen position (this is somewhat less common) then there are sometimes two additional Keys most typically drawn between Chokhma and Da'at and Binah and Da'at.




Now to bring this back to where I started:

As I know the terms this would bring us to thirty-four Paths: the standard keys (21), the ten sephiroth and of course Da'at along with the two additional Keys for a total of thirty-four.

I have no clear sense of what I think about all of this reasoning as applied to 10,000 days. I don't see any point in waiting for someone to propose that these could be the 'Lost Keys' and the significance of Viginti Tres.

Could be, I guess. If you want to take this anywhere simply go and do your own QBLH studies more or less apart from Tool's lyrical messages or work on fitting yogi-DMT into all of this however you please.

At anyrate, if they have any relations with Lustmord beyond the musical level and if Lustmord's connection to what are most likely Crowley-related circles then this really wouldn't be that much of a stretch, and that assumes that you would demand commercially known contacts before linking at least one of the members (seriously or otherwise) to strange occultish ideas.




I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has been covered months ago but I don't remember reading such a thread.
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:36 AM   #3
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Re: Tree of life

There is a bit of quibbling over terms which is worth mentiong.

"Paths" is an intuitively appealing word when it comes to the 'beams/bridges' connecting the spheres and translations can seem easy to debate. Often "Paths" refers to these connective routes between the spheres (Sephiroth) as well as the passage through each Sephira itself. Thus yielding 32 paths.

Da'at is sometimes seen as an Eleventh Sephira, if the roots/beard of the tree are assigned numbers 1-3 prior to Kether (not the most sound reasoning) it can even be construed as the 14th 'Sephira' which is a misleading over-application of the word unto the roots; the Ayn, the (Ayn-)Sof and the (Ayn-Sof-)Aur.

Other ways that Da'at has been interpretted that I know of:

The prior emanative form or precursor to Malkuth before The Fall: a descent from it's original place in alignment with the throat shakra/force of knowledge/ gnosis / logos into it's current manifest location at the bottom of the tree.

A residual energy left behind in the stead of the since-absent Da'at.

A resultant force which is (or has occupied) a vacuum ("The Abyss") left behind from the Descent.

Merely a note-worthy lacuna within the energy of the tree but With-Out a distinctive force of it's own of either a residual or resultant nature.

Sometimes it is viewed as being restorable to it's original nature, and this can be seen as anything from a natural post-enlightenment /death /redemption process on an individual scale to the final dissolution of the world which some 'dark' and gnostic religions proscribe in order to cure us of the "curse" of (illusory) physical manifestation.


Finally, if you want to talk about a twenty-third of something in the tree the term that comes to my mind is "Keys", this is the term sometimes used for the bridges in exclusion to the 'passages' of the spheres themselves. There are 21 Keys connecting the spheres in the Tree's most common two-dimensional representation...

When Da'at is seen as a force which exists even while Malkuth is present in it's Fallen position (this is somewhat less common) then there are sometimes two additional Keys most typically drawn between Chokhma and Da'at and Binah and Da'at.




Now to bring this back to where I started:

As I know the terms this would bring us to thirty-four Paths: the standard keys (21), the ten sephiroth and of course Da'at along with the two additional Keys for a total of thirty-four.

I have no clear sense of what I think about all of this reasoning as applied to 10,000 days. I don't see any point in waiting for someone to propose that these could be the 'Lost Keys' and the significance of Viginti Tres.

Could be, I guess. If you want to take this anywhere simply go and do your own QBLH studies more or less apart from Tool's lyrical messages or work on fitting yogi-DMT into all of this however you please.

At anyrate, if they have any relations with Lustmord beyond the musical level and if Lustmord's connection to what are most likely Crowley-related circles then this really wouldn't be that much of a stretch, and that assumes that you would demand commercially known contacts before linking at least one of the members (seriously or otherwise) to strange occultish ideas.




I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has been covered months ago but I don't remember reading such a thread.
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NowisMytimE's Avatar NowisMytimE
11-02-2006, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q'ayin View Post
There is a bit of quibbling over terms which is worth mentiong.

"Paths" is an intuitively appealing word when it comes to the 'beams/bridges' connecting the spheres and translations can seem easy to debate. Often "Paths" refers to these connective routes between the spheres (Sephiroth) as well as the passage through each Sephira itself. Thus yielding 32 paths.

Da'at is sometimes seen as an Eleventh Sephira, if the roots/beard of the tree are assigned numbers 1-3 prior to Kether (not the most sound reasoning) it can even be construed as the 14th 'Sephira' which is a misleading over-application of the word unto the roots; the Ayn, the (Ayn-)Sof and the (Ayn-Sof-)Aur.

Other ways that Da'at has been interpretted that I know of:

The prior emanative form or precursor to Malkuth before The Fall: a descent from it's original place in alignment with the throat shakra/force of knowledge/ gnosis / logos into it's current manifest location at the bottom of the tree.

A residual energy left behind in the stead of the since-absent Da'at.

A resultant force which is (or has occupied) a vacuum ("The Abyss") left behind from the Descent.

Merely a note-worthy lacuna within the energy of the tree but With-Out a distinctive force of it's own of either a residual or resultant nature.

Sometimes it is viewed as being restorable to it's original nature, and this can be seen as anything from a natural post-enlightenment /death /redemption process on an individual scale to the final dissolution of the world which some 'dark' and gnostic religions proscribe in order to cure us of the "curse" of (illusory) physical manifestation.


Finally, if you want to talk about a twenty-third of something in the tree the term that comes to my mind is "Keys", this is the term sometimes used for the bridges in exclusion to the 'passages' of the spheres themselves. There are 21 Keys connecting the spheres in the Tree's most common two-dimensional representation...

When Da'at is seen as a force which exists even while Malkuth is present in it's Fallen position (this is somewhat less common) then there are sometimes two additional Keys most typically drawn between Chokhma and Da'at and Binah and Da'at.




Now to bring this back to where I started:

As I know the terms this would bring us to thirty-four Paths: the standard keys (21), the ten sephiroth and of course Da'at along with the two additional Keys for a total of thirty-four.

I have no clear sense of what I think about all of this reasoning as applied to 10,000 days. I don't see any point in waiting for someone to propose that these could be the 'Lost Keys' and the significance of Viginti Tres.

Could be, I guess. If you want to take this anywhere simply go and do your own QBLH studies more or less apart from Tool's lyrical messages or work on fitting yogi-DMT into all of this however you please.

At anyrate, if they have any relations with Lustmord beyond the musical level and if Lustmord's connection to what are most likely Crowley-related circles then this really wouldn't be that much of a stretch, and that assumes that you would demand commercially known contacts before linking at least one of the members (seriously or otherwise) to strange occultish ideas.




I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has been covered months ago but I don't remember reading such a thread.


Well....[ehem] then, thank you for being so thorough
__________________
(S)eperation in time of unity will force us to
Follow chaos into e[X]tinction

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Old 11-02-2006, 05:28 PM   #4
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Re: Tree of life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q'ayin View Post
There is a bit of quibbling over terms which is worth mentiong.

"Paths" is an intuitively appealing word when it comes to the 'beams/bridges' connecting the spheres and translations can seem easy to debate. Often "Paths" refers to these connective routes between the spheres (Sephiroth) as well as the passage through each Sephira itself. Thus yielding 32 paths.

Da'at is sometimes seen as an Eleventh Sephira, if the roots/beard of the tree are assigned numbers 1-3 prior to Kether (not the most sound reasoning) it can even be construed as the 14th 'Sephira' which is a misleading over-application of the word unto the roots; the Ayn, the (Ayn-)Sof and the (Ayn-Sof-)Aur.

Other ways that Da'at has been interpretted that I know of:

The prior emanative form or precursor to Malkuth before The Fall: a descent from it's original place in alignment with the throat shakra/force of knowledge/ gnosis / logos into it's current manifest location at the bottom of the tree.

A residual energy left behind in the stead of the since-absent Da'at.

A resultant force which is (or has occupied) a vacuum ("The Abyss") left behind from the Descent.

Merely a note-worthy lacuna within the energy of the tree but With-Out a distinctive force of it's own of either a residual or resultant nature.

Sometimes it is viewed as being restorable to it's original nature, and this can be seen as anything from a natural post-enlightenment /death /redemption process on an individual scale to the final dissolution of the world which some 'dark' and gnostic religions proscribe in order to cure us of the "curse" of (illusory) physical manifestation.


Finally, if you want to talk about a twenty-third of something in the tree the term that comes to my mind is "Keys", this is the term sometimes used for the bridges in exclusion to the 'passages' of the spheres themselves. There are 21 Keys connecting the spheres in the Tree's most common two-dimensional representation...

When Da'at is seen as a force which exists even while Malkuth is present in it's Fallen position (this is somewhat less common) then there are sometimes two additional Keys most typically drawn between Chokhma and Da'at and Binah and Da'at.




Now to bring this back to where I started:

As I know the terms this would bring us to thirty-four Paths: the standard keys (21), the ten sephiroth and of course Da'at along with the two additional Keys for a total of thirty-four.

I have no clear sense of what I think about all of this reasoning as applied to 10,000 days. I don't see any point in waiting for someone to propose that these could be the 'Lost Keys' and the significance of Viginti Tres.

Could be, I guess. If you want to take this anywhere simply go and do your own QBLH studies more or less apart from Tool's lyrical messages or work on fitting yogi-DMT into all of this however you please.

At anyrate, if they have any relations with Lustmord beyond the musical level and if Lustmord's connection to what are most likely Crowley-related circles then this really wouldn't be that much of a stretch, and that assumes that you would demand commercially known contacts before linking at least one of the members (seriously or otherwise) to strange occultish ideas.




I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has been covered months ago but I don't remember reading such a thread.


Well....[ehem] then, thank you for being so thorough
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Q'ayin
11-02-2006, 06:21 PM
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np.
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Old 11-02-2006, 06:21 PM   #5
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Re: Tree of life

np.
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