Hey all,
Cast your mind back to Lateralus. You may recall that the disc was HDCD based, allowing for a higher sampled output rate (in theory) on capable hardware/decoding environments.
Looking at 10000 Days, I see no note or mention of this, on my CD Packaging or otherwise.
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
Cheers...
z.
04-28-2006, 08:30 PM
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#1
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz.
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10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Hey all,
Cast your mind back to Lateralus. You may recall that the disc was HDCD based, allowing for a higher sampled output rate (in theory) on capable hardware/decoding environments.
Looking at 10000 Days, I see no note or mention of this, on my CD Packaging or otherwise.
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
Cheers...
z.
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Yeah, for some reason 10KD is not a HDCD. I guess the format is dead in the water.
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04-28-2006, 08:34 PM
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#2
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Yeah, for some reason 10KD is not a HDCD. I guess the format is dead in the water.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vilemerchant
Yeah, for some reason 10KD is not a HDCD. I guess the format is dead in the water.
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Yeah. Potentially. Not sure really. It wasn't a very popular inclusion to normal pressed CD's in the Lateralus era either, really.
It was one of those things that was only really useful if you were playing through a high end dedicated player, with *really* decent source amplification and monitoring, or a nice soundcard in your PC and a good pair of speakers.
Maybe the cost of manufacturing was too high?
Last edited by zebra; 04-28-2006 at 08:38 PM..
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04-28-2006, 08:36 PM
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#3
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz.
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vilemerchant
Yeah, for some reason 10KD is not a HDCD. I guess the format is dead in the water.
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Yeah. Potentially. Not sure really. It wasn't a very popular inclusion to normal pressed CD's in the Lateralus era either, really.
It was one of those things that was only really useful if you were playing through a high end dedicated player, with *really* decent source amplification and monitoring, or a nice soundcard in your PC and a good pair of speakers.
Maybe the cost of manufacturing was too high?
Last edited by zebra; 04-28-2006 at 08:38 PM..
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04-28-2006, 08:37 PM
It's because they hate you.
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04-28-2006, 08:37 PM
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#4
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
It's because they hate you.
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04-28-2006, 08:39 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
It's because they hate you.
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well, dont point out the obvious....
lol
__________________
He said, "You are the Chosen One, the One who will deliver the message. Me. The Chosen One? They chose me, and I didn't graduate from fuckin' high school.
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04-28-2006, 08:39 PM
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#5
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Albuquerque
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
It's because they hate you.
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well, dont point out the obvious....
lol
__________________
He said, "You are the Chosen One, the One who will deliver the message. Me. The Chosen One? They chose me, and I didn't graduate from fuckin' high school.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zebra
Hey all,
Cast your mind back to Lateralus. You may recall that the disc was HDCD based, allowing for a higher sampled output rate (in theory) on capable hardware/decoding environments.
Looking at 10000 Days, I see no note or mention of this, on my CD Packaging or otherwise.
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
Cheers...
z.
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Yeah I'm slightly pissed about this also.
HDCD does not allow for a higher sampling rate, but it does increase the resolution (number of quantising steps).
CD; fs = 44.1Khz bitdepth = 16
HDCD; fs = 44.1Khz, bit depth = 20
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04-28-2006, 08:44 PM
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#6
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth, Australia
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zebra
Hey all,
Cast your mind back to Lateralus. You may recall that the disc was HDCD based, allowing for a higher sampled output rate (in theory) on capable hardware/decoding environments.
Looking at 10000 Days, I see no note or mention of this, on my CD Packaging or otherwise.
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
Cheers...
z.
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Yeah I'm slightly pissed about this also.
HDCD does not allow for a higher sampling rate, but it does increase the resolution (number of quantising steps).
CD; fs = 44.1Khz bitdepth = 16
HDCD; fs = 44.1Khz, bit depth = 20 |
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04-28-2006, 08:44 PM
HDCD, I believe, is no longer being supported by Microsoft (it's owner). Their used to be a website HDCD.com, but it no longer exists.
All high-rez formats that require special decoding suffer from the lack of public education about them and lack of manufacturer support. Plus, the average guy can't hear the difference on their highly average quality mass-manufactured in Taiwan portable CD player. People want more music on smaller media, not better sound. So, though a good idea, HDCD did not survive.
__________________
Let us now, as Futurists, enter one of these hospitals for anaemic sounds. There: the first bar brings the boredom of familiarity to your ear and anticipates the boredom of the bar to follow. Let us relish, from bar to bar, two or three varieties of genuine boredom, waiting all the while for the extraordinary sensation that never comes.
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04-28-2006, 08:44 PM
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#7
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If nothing is everything I've got it all (tdn $upporter)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,496
Bincount™: 5332
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
HDCD, I believe, is no longer being supported by Microsoft (it's owner). Their used to be a website HDCD.com, but it no longer exists.
All high-rez formats that require special decoding suffer from the lack of public education about them and lack of manufacturer support. Plus, the average guy can't hear the difference on their highly average quality mass-manufactured in Taiwan portable CD player. People want more music on smaller media, not better sound. So, though a good idea, HDCD did not survive.
__________________
Let us now, as Futurists, enter one of these hospitals for anaemic sounds. There: the first bar brings the boredom of familiarity to your ear and anticipates the boredom of the bar to follow. Let us relish, from bar to bar, two or three varieties of genuine boredom, waiting all the while for the extraordinary sensation that never comes.
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04-28-2006, 08:52 PM
it doesnt really matter to me as long as it kicks ass
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04-28-2006, 08:52 PM
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#8
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
it doesnt really matter to me as long as it kicks ass
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcmurray
CD; fs = 44.1Khz bitdepth = 16
HDCD; fs = 44.1Khz, bit depth = 20
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Thanks for the correction there dude.
All the same, I've never actually tested the difference between running lateralus in HDCD mode and non-HDCD mode. I probably should one of these days.
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04-28-2006, 08:59 PM
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#9
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz.
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcmurray
CD; fs = 44.1Khz bitdepth = 16
HDCD; fs = 44.1Khz, bit depth = 20
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Thanks for the correction there dude.
All the same, I've never actually tested the difference between running lateralus in HDCD mode and non-HDCD mode. I probably should one of these days. |
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04-28-2006, 09:27 PM
If you have a 24 bit soundcard it's just a matter of checking a setting in Windows Media Player.
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04-28-2006, 09:27 PM
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#10
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I'm your minge
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
If you have a 24 bit soundcard it's just a matter of checking a setting in Windows Media Player.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malaka
If you have a 24 bit soundcard it's just a matter of checking a setting in Windows Media Player.
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Yes, but not if the source encoding isn't capable of outputting at this bit-depth ;), which in this case, it seems not to be (ie - only 16bit audio, as opposed to HDCD's 20bit).
Meh. Either way, the album as we say in Australia is "bloody stunning". Well worth the wait.
Bring on the tour dates ;)
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04-28-2006, 09:34 PM
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#11
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz.
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malaka
If you have a 24 bit soundcard it's just a matter of checking a setting in Windows Media Player.
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Yes, but not if the source encoding isn't capable of outputting at this bit-depth ;), which in this case, it seems not to be (ie - only 16bit audio, as opposed to HDCD's 20bit).
Meh. Either way, the album as we say in Australia is "bloody stunning". Well worth the wait.
Bring on the tour dates ;) |
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04-28-2006, 10:13 PM
"Yes, but not if the source encoding isn't capable of outputting at this bit-depth ;), which in this case, it seems not to be (ie - only 16bit audio, as opposed to HDCD's 20bit)."
I'm sorry you lost me there (i think). I'll just explain a lil more what i meant..
With say lateralus (20 bit) you said if you get around to hearing it one day in hdcd,
I just wanted to point out that it's easy to do if you have a 24 bit soundcard (required) in W.M.P. without buying extra equipment. But if what I think you're saying is with a regular cd (16 bit) it's useless, then yes correct. I didn't intend to have what i said come off as everything plays at 20 or even 24 bit.
Hope i made some sense in there. :P
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04-28-2006, 10:13 PM
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#12
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I'm your minge
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
"Yes, but not if the source encoding isn't capable of outputting at this bit-depth ;), which in this case, it seems not to be (ie - only 16bit audio, as opposed to HDCD's 20bit)."
I'm sorry you lost me there (i think). I'll just explain a lil more what i meant..
With say lateralus (20 bit) you said if you get around to hearing it one day in hdcd,
I just wanted to point out that it's easy to do if you have a 24 bit soundcard (required) in W.M.P. without buying extra equipment. But if what I think you're saying is with a regular cd (16 bit) it's useless, then yes correct. I didn't intend to have what i said come off as everything plays at 20 or even 24 bit.
Hope i made some sense in there. :P
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Yup. You have understood my statement.
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04-28-2006, 11:13 PM
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#13
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oz.
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Yup. You have understood my statement.
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04-28-2006, 11:16 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zebra
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
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Because virtually no one used those extra 4 bits?
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04-28-2006, 11:16 PM
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#14
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meh.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,616
Bincount™: 1074
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zebra
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
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Because virtually no one used those extra 4 bits? |
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04-28-2006, 11:44 PM
With such great marketing and a huge effort to educate consumers of the benefits of HDCD, how could it possibly fail? :P
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04-28-2006, 11:44 PM
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#15
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I'm your minge
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
With such great marketing and a huge effort to educate consumers of the benefits of HDCD, how could it possibly fail? :P
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OFFLINE |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zebra
Hey all,
Cast your mind back to Lateralus. You may recall that the disc was HDCD based, allowing for a higher sampled output rate (in theory) on capable hardware/decoding environments.
Looking at 10000 Days, I see no note or mention of this, on my CD Packaging or otherwise.
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
Cheers...
z.
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They might put it out later...the question is...if they do...will you buy the other one too? Maybe SACD? or DUAL DISC?
All i know is that I'm still waiting for the live cd/dvd! FUCK! WHEN LORD WHEN!?!
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04-29-2006, 02:05 AM
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#16
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zebra
Hey all,
Cast your mind back to Lateralus. You may recall that the disc was HDCD based, allowing for a higher sampled output rate (in theory) on capable hardware/decoding environments.
Looking at 10000 Days, I see no note or mention of this, on my CD Packaging or otherwise.
Anyone else know why Tool seem to have chosen to ditch HDCD and (potentially) a better overall sound, for those capable of hearing it?
Cheers...
z.
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They might put it out later...the question is...if they do...will you buy the other one too? Maybe SACD? or DUAL DISC?
All i know is that I'm still waiting for the live cd/dvd! FUCK! WHEN LORD WHEN!?! |
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malaka
With such great marketing and a huge effort to educate consumers of the benefits of HDCD, how could it possibly fail? :P
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hahaha, players are too fucking expensive...and who besides audio nuts have a HDCD player...those things are expensive and not really worth it. I bet they're more worried about getting 10kdays on iTunes rather than putting it out on HDCD. Digital Distribution is becoming more important to labels than specialty formats, but I wouldn't be suprised if they release this on UMD and on Dual Disc with that infamous 2nd disc.
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04-29-2006, 02:13 AM
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#17
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio
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Re: 10000 Days isn't HDCD?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malaka
With such great marketing and a huge effort to educate consumers of the benefits of HDCD, how could it possibly fail? :P
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hahaha, players are too fucking expensive...and who besides audio nuts have a HDCD player...those things are expensive and not really worth it. I bet they're more worried about getting 10kdays on iTunes rather than putting it out on HDCD. Digital Distribution is becoming more important to labels than specialty formats, but I wouldn't be suprised if they release this on UMD and on Dual Disc with that infamous 2nd disc. |
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