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Old 11-19-2002, 08:48 AM   #1
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Help

Just to clear the air, this video is the most disturbing piece of film i've ever seen-

That said, i have no idea what really is going on-
I understand that the 'Grownup' character is preventing the 'Child' character from gettin his legs, and taking him away to do creepy Molestation-esque stuff on him, but im not certain thats it.

One thing a lot of people seem to miss about this video is the paintbrush aspect. The adult is trying to paint the child everytime he gets him, but never finds success- Perhaps its a visual metaphor for him trying to kill him? Because after the child gets the paintbrush, he ACTUALLY paints himself, and after that, he slumps over as if hes dead.

...so... maybe its saying the adult can only try to kill the child, or try to make the child want to die- But only the kid himself can kill himself.

Or maybe its an extension of the lyrics- "Im breathing so i guess im still alive, even if signs seem to tell me otherwise."
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Old 11-19-2002, 09:57 AM   #2
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wow

thats a really good aspect on that video, you kinda have seemed to grasp in a sence that you may be correct if there is any way to be correct in the world of tool....lol
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Old 11-19-2002, 10:59 AM   #3
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Actually, thinking about it just now, it seems to me that the older figure attempting to paint the child figure would signify the older figure trying to imprint his need for "prison sex" upon the child. However, he's unsuccessful; the continuation of the cycle is entirely based upon the will of the victim. In the case of the video, the victim isn't strong enough to break the cycle. Thus he paints himself and falls over, his former self dead.
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Old 11-19-2002, 11:22 AM   #4
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Perhaps

Perhaps the symbolism of the Adult painting the child lies in the fact that many parents try to force thier children to be something they dont want to be, essentially destorying their identities. When the child tried to come up with his own identity, he died....
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Old 11-19-2002, 11:42 AM   #5
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I felt that it said that the parent was trying to imprint a sort of value system on the child, but could not do to his strength of charactar. This in turn results in the parent physically harming the child.
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Old 11-19-2002, 12:32 PM   #6
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just a thought, not my opinion............ maybe the child couldnt take it any more.
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Old 11-19-2002, 01:42 PM   #7
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the parent/child idea seems to be a somewhat common motif in Tool videos, the idea of fore-granted love is pergaps explored here, the idea that jsut because one is by nature or moral supposed to 'love' something, like a child, does not mean taht this love is implicedly in place. It must still be drawn out, created like any other love. or maybe not. Who knows?
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Old 11-19-2002, 08:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peon
I felt that it said that the parent was trying to imprint a sort of value system on the child, but could not do to his strength of charactar.
i totally agree with what he's saying here. like the child has the strength and will not to be a part of that endless cycle of abuse that can result from such tragic events ("do unto you, now, what has been done to me/do unto others what has been done to you"). this video really creeps the hell out of me, but it's amazing how the adam really gets the point across of how truly disgusting and low child abuse is.
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Old 11-20-2002, 06:58 AM   #9
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Is the "adult" figure in the movie meant to be of a shadowy gender? It's difficult to tell whether its supposed to be a man or a woman. (There's the high heels....)

One thing I never noticed until I looked closely is that in the beginning of the video, the adult figure cuts off the legs of the child. Obviously that's not really the key part of the message, since it's at the beginning and you only notice it if you're looking closely.
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Old 11-20-2002, 07:41 PM   #10
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Just going by the facts, there are two beings. One tries to get its legs, which would enable it to better look through the drawers. The other, a mysterious figure covered in black, keeps the first from getting its legs, and attempts to paint it black. The legless one ultimately paints itself.

The song, in general, is about one person forcing an experience upon another, who likewise forces the same experience on the next.

I see it as kind of a chain, whether it's forcing beliefs on another or an experience. I agree that when the legless figure paints itself, it's accepting what the other attempted to force upon it earlier, and in this, it's self dies. It has no more interest in searching the drawers. It has chosen to take what was forced upon it.

Somewhat of a tragedy. I think if there's a message, it's that one should be mindful of his/her own thoughts/feelings/etc., and break the chain of mindlessly taking something and passing it on.
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Old 11-22-2002, 10:35 AM   #11
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I see most people think of it as parent/child. But can't it also be seen as just power/helpless? The key for me is when the black figure comes around, there is a point where its shadow disappears into the guy without legs, leading me to think it comes from within the legless guy himself. My puzzle is what's with the spinning carlike apparatus?

This video to me is the most disturbing. Not that that's a bad thng...
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Old 11-22-2002, 08:32 PM   #12
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these are all wonderful interpretations, but what about

the meaty, skinless looking fellow who gets stepped on?

what about the identical 'child', in the form of a caterpillar?

and what about the thing on wheels that sticks its hand into the skinless looking felllow after he's been squished? i find most interesting about this object the spinning face. whose face is it? it's most obviously human.

what about the bee that the child finds in the jar, and that in the next scene is crawling across the adult's fingers?

perhaps the skinless being is representative of the 'child' trying to escape, the small, exposed, vunerable part of him that has found the will to run from the situation, but his vunerability proves his destruction, therefore the child continues to be subjected to the adult's torture--his will was not strong enough, and so in the end his only option was death.

perhaps the identical child hidden in the drawer is a form of subconsciousness. he towers over the legless child, staring him down... perhaps this is symbolic of the subconscious becoming the conscious, forcing the child to realize he must somehow free himself.

i cannot figure out the face... it looks like a human child to me, but what this may be symbolic of i'm not sure... if i'm going to run with the idea that the skinless fellow is the child's willpower... perhaps the face is a higher, more advanced being...acknowledging the death of willpower and the plight the child is in. when his face starts spinning maybe it's indicitive of how overwhelmed he feels by what has begun to happen, how out of his control things have spiraled. but then if this was so you'd think he would play a larger role...

the bee perhaps represents curiousity, the child seems very interested in holding the jar and watching it fly around. there are two ways i could see to interpret this. either the child is beginning to enact the adult's 'molestation' of him (in the sense that he keeps the bee encased in the jar, as though he is a toy, turning him this way and that, starting at him... as the adult, it turns out, is doing in the end when he closes the drawer that contains the child), or it does represent curiousity that the child still harbors even in his tortured state--only to have the adult take the curiosity away as well, thus destroying the child's hope.

but who knows
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Old 11-23-2002, 12:32 AM   #13
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hfghevgjjjj222322`

In the song the lyrics do twist around a little, making the child become the adult, so what 4degrees said is probably true... I can't exactly recall the exact lyrics or what happens in the video cause I haven't seen it for a while, but I think the video also reflects how the child for some reason becomes the adult and does the same messed up stuff to the next generation... like, the childs child. Also, I think the paintbrush thing where he paints himself is just a metaphor for hurting yourself... like, the adult hurt him (or tried to hurt him) maybe even emotionally, then the child went on to physicly abuse himself..
One more thing: in the video, dosn't something weird happen where one of those drawers becomes the actual room that everything happens in, or am I wrong?
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Old 11-24-2002, 09:19 PM   #14
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yeah

at the very end of the video, after the adult puts the child back in the 'room', the camera angle zooms out and it shows the adult towering over the drawer, in a wall filled with other drawers, pushing it closed, with the child inside.

this could be interpretted possibly as the fact that pain is infinite and it happens so often to so many that it is most often overlooked.
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Old 11-25-2002, 11:42 AM   #15
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Child Abuse

Like MJK said over and over again, prison sex is about child molestation and abuse. This is a fact that everyone agrees. The video itself shows this painfull process and is filled with icons and metaphors that show the "victim"s feelings.

From the beggining.

The video starts with that black figure, the adult, cutting off the childs legs. This must mean the beggining of the abuse, the separation of the child from its freedom its childhood. And the child falls...

The first thing that apears next is the childs face, wrecked and breaked, showing the marks of the attack. Then we see the child touching the place where his legs were and he sees them hanging on the wall where he cant reach them. Maybe the legs are his soul and it has benn separated from his body after the abuse, taken away from the pain and now he just wants to be himself again.
The dark figure ripping the pages of a diary seems like he's destroying the proofs of the abuse. And when he approaches the child, he passes out. It's common for a victim of abuse to leave its mind, going to another place of its mind while being molested, and that is what is seems that the child is doing, escapinf that painfull reality. But still his legs move, still he is alive...

I think the bee in the jar is his childhood, his will to fly and grow, to discover and live. But he is trapped in that situation, and later on, he breaks and surrenders to his abuser.

The drawers are the memories, the childs mind. All the video seems to happen inside the childs mind, the way he sees things, his wishes, his fears, his emotions. The catterpillar is also a symbol of childhood, he is still growing, into a butterfly, but that reality doesnt allow him to do so...thats why it appears for a brief moment...a small glimpse of the childs will to grow.

I agree with the interpretation of the paintbrush. The black figure tries to paint the child, kill him... But only the child himself can surrender and paint himself with death, lost in pain and despair.
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Old 11-29-2002, 03:13 AM   #16
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"I agree with the interpretation of the paintbrush. The black figure tries to paint the child, kill him... But only the child himself can surrender and paint himself with death, lost in pain and despair."

Interesting. I thought something slightly different; consider the color of the paint, and the color of the "parent" figure. Both black, right? So maybe the child surrenders and paints himself into becoming the parent figure.

The car thing; when its face spins, it changes from to a young infant to maybe a toddler or 5-year-old. So it's obviously seen something that a child should never see, and that has matured it a little. But what has it seen? The loss of willpower? Maybe.
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:36 PM   #17
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heres what i think,i think that the legless figure (the child) is legless meaning that its a defensless helpless child,it cant run away from the abuse.the tall dark figure places it in the drawer, taking it out and putting it back and so on meaning that the abuse will happen again and again.the tall dark figure painting the child is its way of doing harm to the child and it holds the childs arm down as if saying you cant stop this ,so dont try and when the child paints itsself its like its not in control of its own body anymore,it knows nothing but what the dark figure has done to it and cant control that.thats my 2 cents, just what i think...
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Old 12-07-2002, 12:33 PM   #18
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I see when the adult cuts off the legs of the child and hangs them on the wall, the child's freedom has been taken away. He can't use his legs anymore. The adult rips pages outta the diary of the child, erasing the accounts of what happened. The child faints everytime the adult comes around, trying to escape mentally while still being there physically. But his legs still move, which means that he can still feel the effects. Then the child searches in a hole and finds a bee in a bottle. That represents happiness that the child has. It's a form of pleasure. But the adult comes back and the child faints again. The adult tries to paint the child, which I think represents molestation, and the child's legs vibrate a lot. Meaning that he feels it greatly. Back in the box, the child sees a two sided picture of a toddler and a baby. I think that's something he's not supposed to see, which I think is the past, present, and future, and he's taken aback by it..so he stumbles back. Then the adult comes back, and takes the child and tries to fix him. He looks inside his head and sees his eyes...still open...still awake and able to feel it. The caterpillar thing I have absolutely no clue about. Inside the adult's mind, he sees him molesting the child. Then the child looks into his own little box, similar to the one the adult has over the child, and sees this clay figure. The adult squishes it and kills it, which I think means the adult doesn't want the figure to go through what the child went through. Then the two sided face thing comes back and touches the clay. He gets stimulated and aroused by it. Since I think the two sided face thing can be the child's past, present, and future visions, I think that the child would have molested his own child in the future. I think that's the circular theme of this song.."I do unto others what has been done to me". Then the adult gives the child a paintbrush and the child paints itself, meaning the child has given in to the adult and done what the adult has wanted. He just accepts it, doesn't try to fight it. The child moves for the first time in the video while being molested by the adult, but the adult puts his hand down. At the end, the adult puts the child in his own box. As it zooms out you can see that the adult is in his own box as well, further proving the point of a circular pattern.
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Old 06-10-2003, 06:34 PM   #19
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One of the most elusive symbols in the video (at least for me) has been the figure with the spinning face and hands. Only after watching several times and observing both of its faces did I finally come up with a suitable explanation.

The mechanical figure on wheels represents the cycle of child abuse that goes from parent to child as referred in the lyrics that Maynard adds to the song when it is performed live: "So sweet was your surrender / We have become one / I have become my terror / And you my precious lamb and martyr." First of all, the white face. Notice there is only one eye, just like the abused child, who is also white. The other face is a photographic negative, one that is black. Both of its eyes are blacked out, just like the black figure that abuses the child (it is difficult to distinguish the black figure's face because it is only shown in the dark).

Now consider what the mechanical figure does each time its face flips: it changes from the white figure to the black one. This is apparently representative of the psychological damage that the child is already developing. It is already beginning to develop the same traits as its abuser. One day, if the trend continues, it will be the abuser and continue the cycle.
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Old 06-29-2003, 06:32 AM   #20
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I've Come Round Full Circle

I noticed something which makes me think of the child "becoming" the adult. When Maynard sings "I've come round full circle", the adult opens up his head and the child looks in and sees what could be him abusing a child just like himself. And then he paints himself in black to show that he has started to become what the black figure/abuser already is.

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Old 07-11-2003, 03:13 AM   #21
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i think the black book is a bible
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Old 07-18-2003, 01:58 PM   #22
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Re: Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peon
I felt that it said that the parent was trying to imprint a sort of value system on the child, but could not do to his strength of charactar. This in turn results in the parent physically harming the child.
I don't remember ever having seen this video. But Peon touches on something I made in a post re: the subject matter of this song in the "Albums" archive at sober. I think this interpretation of enstiling a value system would be concurrent with my interpretation of the snog's core meaning, a misunderstanding of the christian "golden rule" ethic, when taught to a child.

You may want to check it out, it may be something no one has considered yet.
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Old 04-11-2007, 06:06 PM   #23
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Re: Help

Has no one ever noticed that half of this video takes place within the mind of the child as an adult, begining the cycle of abuse again?
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Old 04-29-2007, 08:52 AM   #24
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Re: Help

Since the lyrics to the songs were written by MJK and th video was produced by Adam that you can not piece the two together to find one complete thought. Maynards reasoning for the song is in the lyrics and the way Adam sees the and interperts the song comes out in the video.

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Old 05-03-2007, 08:23 AM   #25
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Re: Help

in the video the childs legs appear to be attempting to run while the child is unconcious, suggesting that the child wants to run away but he cant. I agree with the part about tearing the pages from the diary. the dark figure attempting to brush the child is not a symbol of him trying to kill the child, only to recreate the child in his own image. the lyrics in the song suggest that this cycle is repetitive, and the dark figure is trying to repeat what has been done to him, but the only the child can chose to become it.. when he is touching the childs face he taps it and breaks the center piece, but then places a new one in its place, suggesting that he is tearing the child apart only to build him back up again. when it shows the dark figure putting the child back together it shows that the figure made the boy who he is inside. the bee is similar to the boy, he is free to move about inside his container, but ultimately subject to the will of someone else. the caterpillar with the boys face suggests what he could have become. when the camera focuses on the dark figure and it goes inside his head, it shows that he is made of the same machinery as the child. it then flashes back to his childhood and shows him becoming the dark figure, his round childish features become scared and chisled. he finally shows his frustration with not being able to paint the child by leaving the brush with the child. this shows that a person is not able to subject someone to their will, it is ultimately their decision. the child ultimately succumbs to the pressure and paints itself. it will one day become the dark figure in some other child's hell. it shows the new dark figure then trying to paint a child, only it cannot. the child resists but is stopped. the cycle of molestation has begun anew.
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:30 PM   #26
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Re: Help

To me the whole thing about the child painting itself after the adult figure unsuccessfully tries to pain it symbolizes the fact that the child's innocence is resistant to the abuse that is being inflicted, but it takes toll in the child's subconcious. The theme to me is the abused becoming the abuser because of the damage done. Closer to the end of the video, you can see inside the mind of the adult figure, and you see that it was also abused.
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Old 05-29-2007, 10:38 AM   #27
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Re: Help

this video is beautiful and disturbing at the same time. I cried the 1st time i saw this because of the powerful message being displayed. It is obvious Adam pours his emotions into creating these videos.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:00 PM   #28
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Re: Help

the whole video is about when your mom does your laundry
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