Yeah I did mention the setlist issue, but I wasn't going to bitch about it to him. Junior and his team do an incredible job with whatever setlist the band gives them. I'm assuming that they have no control whatsoever on what the band plays.
Hell, at this point I think I owe just as much appreciation to the crew as I do to the band on the stage.
I was (and still am) fucking exhausted after that show. Can't imagine how all those techies have to spend a few hours with cleanup/loading/ect every night.
I'm sure they don't have control on what the band plays, but I mean... did he tell you that there is the intention to play other different songs, or it's just another leg of the 10,000 Days tour? Did they prepare and work on other songs videos and lightning?
Well, I'm sure Junior is obviously well aware of the disapointment many people share regarding the setlist. I bet he even would personally prefer a change.
But i'm not going to ask him to divulge that information. If he wanted to share it, he would have told everybody on the forums by now. But he wouldn't (and shouldn't) do that. Plus, it's also possible he does not even know and the band is keeping even their own techies in the dark.
However, about the visuals... absolutely.
About 4-6 new changes in this tour regarding the visuals/lasers/lighting.
They somehow managed to improve an already ridiculously epic stage setup.
The new intro for the lasers in rosetta stoned is 10000x better than what they did last tour with wings for marie.
Plus a new backdrop behind the stage, some hanging visuals...
And the Vicarious video playing during the song is incredible. No words can describe the alex grey net of being with the "tricky" flying through it behind the band members on stage.
Junior, I do have one question though if you're still checking this.
Both nights now I have noticed that lasers seem much weaker than before. In particular the red/coloured ones. I figured denver was just harder to see because of weather/wind issues, but I noticed the same thing today. The red lasers are almost impossible to see unless the smoke briefly passes through. I see if fine when it's just a single laser for split-seconds of all colours at faster parts of songs. But the numerous, side-by-side "net" lasers are impossible to see when they're not green.
Any particular reason for this?
(Also, the lighting for Tweak Bird's set... I'm assuming that was you improvising?)
Junior, I do have one question though if you're still checking this.
Both nights now I have noticed that lasers seem much weaker than before. In particular the red/coloured ones. I figured denver was just harder to see because of weather/wind issues, but I noticed the same thing today. The red lasers are almost impossible to see unless the smoke briefly passes through. I see if fine when it's just a single laser for split-seconds of all colours at faster parts of songs. But the numerous, side-by-side "net" lasers are impossible to see when they're not green.
Any particular reason for this?
(Also, the lighting for Tweak Bird's set... I'm assuming that was you improvising?)
I have nothing to do with Tweak Bird's lighting. I was eating dinner while
they played tonight, but I do intend to check them out at some
point.
Red lasers are the hardest for the eye to percieve. Green is the easiest colour for the eye to pick up, which is why green lasers are moe common. Smoke is very necessary for lasers to be effective. The wind in Denver made smoke almost nonexistent, and also caused a lot of other problems. We had to lower the backdrop and there were some other issues. The air handlers in the Energysolutions Arena were killing the smoke tonight, too.
can't you tell anything more for the disappointed fans dear Junior?
is there anything new/interesting for which you worked for that PERHAPS it could be unveiled soon?
is it all like this?
can't you tell anything more for the disappointed fans dear Junior?
is there anything new/interesting for which you worked for that PERHAPS it could be unveiled soon?
is it all like this?
lets not make this place unpleasant for junior, eh?
he offers a unique perspective and it shouldn't be taken for granted.
i'm sure if he had something to divulge, he'd take the initiative.
__________________ What do you expect after this? Applause? Your name on stone?
You will have nothing but me and in a worse way than before -
Dissolving and reforming so quickly I seem only to flicker.
A friend of mine wrote a song with a verse about the last Tool tour, he didn't like it, I did I'm a bit disappointed but still more excited than anything. But I still think this lyrical verse he wrote is pretty good.
"I've seen this show before, you look completely bored. Don't worry the feelings mutual, is that all you can do? An empty wallet later, for a shirt and bottle of water, looking like you'd rather be anywhere else...What the hell?"
I don't agree with it, but I can see where he was coming from with it. When Tool tours, no matter what they play or don't play, I WILL be there and I WILL be happy just to see them, I spent years before 10k wishing and hoping to see them live one day. I'm happy to see them at all.
I'm with prater...the denver show was pretty much my 4th time seeing the same show and I loved it. And all the people bitching about some of the little things that were off that was there first show in over a year ya figure they might have a couple glitches. Wish I had the money to buy a $200 ticket and make the 10hr drive to dallas next week.
__________________ 08/30/06 Englewood,CO Coors Ampitheater, 05/08/2007 Albuquerque,NM Tingley Coliseum, 11/19/2007 Tulsa,OK Tulsa Convention Center,07/18/09 Denver,CO MileHighMusicFestival, 06/23/10 Oklahoma City,OK Ford Center, 06/28/10 Morrison,CO Red Rocks, 01/20/12 Grand Prairie,TX Verizon Theater, 01/21/12 Grand Prairie, TX Verizon Theater, 01/16/2016 Tulsa, OK BOK Center, 10/26/2016 Denver, CO Pepsi Center, 10/28/2016 Little Rock,AR Verizon Arena, 05/13/2019 St. Louis, MO Enterprise Arena, 05/14/2019 Kansas City, MO Sprint Center, 10/29/2019 BOK Center Tulsa,OK, 01/30/2022 Tulsa, OK BOK Center, 10/03/23 Loveland, CO Budweiser Event Center
First off....let me say this....Ive been a Tool fan since 98.
I rarely post here....or anywhere, cause its usually just an opinion shitshow... but for whatever reason i was watching a DVD of an amazing "inspired" 02 show last night, and just saw the "new setlist". So this is me defending the band that through doing what THEY love...opened my eyes to psychedelics, sacred geometry, and so much more that i didnt know existed before tool.
Maybe the reason they play the same setlist over and over is because they WANT YOU TO STOP GOING TO THEIR SHOWS. Maybe they are hoping.....praying...that youll start to hate them....so that you create something on your own rather then shell out $90 to see them.
Maynard has said it in interviews.... "i dont understand why people still come see us play".... In 2002....their last words on the Lateralus tour.... "See you on the other side".
The signs are there....
Tool is done. They were done in 02. Maynard runs a vineyard. Justin is surfing. Adam is shooting a movie. And Danny is having fun with Volto and tearing around is him Lambo. This is just the work week for them. Make some quick $$$$ so they can finance the projects they REALLY want to be working on.
They dont want you there any more. Stop relying on the band.... Make your own art. Make your own Music. "Make them dinosaurs" (quote from the very last lateralus show).
THEY ARE DOING YOU A FAVOR. if they played a totally different set every night...half of you would blow your lives following them around the country....I probably would too. They know their power. They know how crazy their fans are. If anything they are helping us all by playing the same old boring setlist.
It is what it is.... I think a lot of people are missing the point... I find it interesting.....almost an incredible show of compassion for the cult following they have. And even worse....we all bitch at them for it...not understanding the good they are doing.
What I'm wondering is how many times have many of you listened to Lateralus and/or 10,000 Days,one,maybe two times,couldn't be anymore than that.I mean, who wants to listen to the same old songs over and over?
Looks like you guys are finally figuring it out. Tool have had enough and they're now in the process of squeezing the last $$$ out this project. I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head. They WANT us to hate them. But, as long as they have a small group of fanatical followers, who will continue to empty their wallets for ANYTHING Tool related, they'll continue to beat this dead horse. It sucks. I LOVED this band. They were brilliant. But if they have no respect for me or appreciate my support they can kiss my ass. And when/if a new album ever comes out in the near future, you can rest assured I will not be paying for it.
They hate what they see right here in this chamber – a democratically elected government... They hate our freedoms – our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote...I'm amazed that there's such misunderstanding of what our country is about that people would hate us... I just can't believe it because I know how good we are.
"All you know about me is what I've sold you - Dumb fuck..."
So I vowed that I was not going to look at setlists before the Fairfax show. This tour was going to be different, but alas, I was on here Friday night. I saw the setlist and, like the vast majority, was underwhelmed. I had to pop on again to see if this was an anomaly. Again, I feel everyone's pain.
I had a momentary delusion that this could be the start of something truly, amazingly special.
Follow me on this one - MAYBE they are doing a reverse order of their progression over the years. Friday night didn't count, b/c it was a festival. SLC was the real start to the experiment. (remember. Maynard asked if they would participate in an experiment)
The next few shows will be slightly more Lateralus like, with the slow introduction of Parabol>Parabola and D/R/T. Then on to some more Aenima material with the final show(s) being a retrospect of an Opiate/Undertow era offering. I know I am on the crackiest of crack here, but it is nice to have a dream.
Regardless I am a fan for life and I will enjoy my one and only show on this tour wearing Vans, 501s and my dope Beastie T.
__________________ ..::Spiral Out::..
Last edited by dmccuiston; 07-20-2009 at 05:54 AM..
Well I am sure the band reads all of these posts and catalogs them by subject, so if they had not thought of it, I am pretty positive they will take the idea and run with it
For all of the people dissapointed by the setlist. With the exception of Pheonix, AZ and Duluth, GA, every single date on this tour is in a different city than last time out. Also remember that before the last tour started, Danny hurt himself seriously and they had to push the tour back. There were several cities that they usually hit that were skipped. I'm pretty certain that these shows are actually make up dates, and they still consider it part of 10k Days. Really the only people that are getting fucked here are those of us that travelled to dates last time. From what I've read, the people who didn't catch the 2006-07 tour are loving it. Maybe the two year wait to finish the tour was because Danny may have hurt himself a lot worse than we thought. His injury was very similar to Pedro Martinez's in 2006 that kept him out of action for pretty much two years, and he may JUST be getting right (although as a Mets fan, I hope not, lol). Danny coming back so quick probably caused him to hurt it worse, and they all figured back then that they would wait until he was healthy to finish the tour. As for missing the title track? That's such a deeply personal song and maybe Maynard just couldn't deal with reliving his mom's death every night of the tour?
I'm pretty certain that these shows are actually make up dates, and they still consider it part of 10k Days.
that's an interesting take that definitely shines a better light on it. The stage setup (as badass as it is) is also so similar. Doesn't really help with those that feel screwed by the repeats, but does make sense.
For all of the people dissapointed by the setlist. With the exception of Pheonix, AZ and Duluth, GA, every single date on this tour is in a different city than last time out. Also remember that before the last tour started, Danny hurt himself seriously and they had to push the tour back. There were several cities that they usually hit that were skipped. I'm pretty certain that these shows are actually make up dates, and they still consider it part of 10k Days. Really the only people that are getting fucked here are those of us that travelled to dates last time. From what I've read, the people who didn't catch the 2006-07 tour are loving it. Maybe the two year wait to finish the tour was because Danny may have hurt himself a lot worse than we thought. His injury was very similar to Pedro Martinez's in 2006 that kept him out of action for pretty much two years, and he may JUST be getting right (although as a Mets fan, I hope not, lol). Danny coming back so quick probably caused him to hurt it worse, and they all figured back then that they would wait until he was healthy to finish the tour. As for missing the title track? That's such a deeply personal song and maybe Maynard just couldn't deal with reliving his mom's death every night of the tour?
It's a good thought, but...November 24, 2007--SLC, Utah; November 21, 2007 Denver, CO; June 29, 2007--Cincinnati, OH; 5 shows in Texas in '07; 2 in NM, I think you get my drift...this is NOT make up dates for 10K Days Tour! You know, some of us might not be disappointed about the setlist as much if the ticket prices hadn't doubled on us for this tour. The last time I saw the band, I paid $250 for a 4 day festival, before that, I paid $50-60 for arena tour tickets... this time, I paid over $100 for an 8 song Tool show.
I have nothing to do with Tweak Bird's lighting. I was eating dinner while
they played tonight, but I do intend to check them out at some
point.
Red lasers are the hardest for the eye to percieve. Green is the easiest colour for the eye to pick up, which is why green lasers are moe common. Smoke is very necessary for lasers to be effective. The wind in Denver made smoke almost nonexistent, and also caused a lot of other problems. We had to lower the backdrop and there were some other issues. The air handlers in the Energysolutions Arena were killing the smoke tonight, too.
I have to say, the lasers and visuals last night were amazing; much better than the SLC/E-Center shows from '06 and '07. Virtual high five, Junior. Great job.
The sound, especially for the Energy Solutions Arena, was also better than I expected. With the exception of the first few minutes of Rosetta Stoned (where the lyrics are tough to make out even with the album's production), everything sounded surprisingly decent.
For all of the people dissapointed by the setlist. With the exception of Pheonix, AZ and Duluth, GA, every single date on this tour is in a different city than last time out. Also remember that before the last tour started, Danny hurt himself seriously and they had to push the tour back. There were several cities that they usually hit that were skipped. I'm pretty certain that these shows are actually make up dates, and they still consider it part of 10k Days. Really the only people that are getting fucked here are those of us that travelled to dates last time. From what I've read, the people who didn't catch the 2006-07 tour are loving it. Maybe the two year wait to finish the tour was because Danny may have hurt himself a lot worse than we thought. His injury was very similar to Pedro Martinez's in 2006 that kept him out of action for pretty much two years, and he may JUST be getting right (although as a Mets fan, I hope not, lol). Danny coming back so quick probably caused him to hurt it worse, and they all figured back then that they would wait until he was healthy to finish the tour. As for missing the title track? That's such a deeply personal song and maybe Maynard just couldn't deal with reliving his mom's death every night of the tour?
Interesting thought regarding this being a "makeup" tour, but not correct. I actually looked back on toolband and found the dates that were cancelled due to his Danny's Injury (I remember it vividly because I planned on attending one of those shows). Anyway, I looked at those cancelled dates and compared them to the late spring/summer tour that they did in 2007. Other than 1-2 dates, at the most, they actually did play all of those areas that were cancelled due to Danny's injury.
Wow, the new Salt Lake poster on toolband is strangely appropriate for the "Major Disappointment Summer Tour".
Or
"I went to a concert to watch a laser show 2009".
And the experiment that some posters mentioned MJK said in Denver? What if our experiment was to stand still and silent between each song? That MIGHT generate a response of some kind...
As a long time Tool fan I would just like to say some things as this new tour starts, and the cheers and jeers begin.
I too have dream set list of songs that seem long forgotten, and remember back to when I thought Maynard was something more than a human could be on stage. I wish that I could press play on the old memories in my brain and live it all over again. However, things change and time passes and we all change from what we once were.
I have no idea what the band thinks or feels, and whether or not they feel they are giving their all or if its the big joke on us some want to believe.
Maybe both sides are to blame. Us the fans, and them the band we raised so high and felt lucky to experience.
Things aren't going to change, and those of you who are wanting the band to change for you are always going to be let down.
I really, really think of TOOL to be much more than a broad way play. For some though this is how you should look at seeing them on this and future tours. Many people go see plays, and even movies that they've seen before. Knowing every line will be the same, every act the same as before. Yet they love the show and appreciate the production. Awards are given to stage actors for doing the same shows over and over.
I am no lamb, and perhaps the joke is on me some how. The cards are on the table, and the outcome is what it is.
I love TOOL albums, TOOL shows and will see them this tour with delight. I bought my ticket as patron not a director. My head is high and I can't wait to see the show.
__________________ riddle me this. once i was prominently displayed for all to see . I made many a man question his true desires. now however i am most likely packed away. However i could be a nice money maker for those who love to squeeze fake things. who or what am I?
Location: I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this.
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Re: General Tool tour questions / discussion
Junior - Amazing job in Denver. I know there were issues with the wind and all, but the lighting was amazing as always, and from where I was (Next to the sound booth, a little house left) the lazers looked plenty awesome. I was actually surprised how far the green ones shot over our heads without any smoke haze. Question - does wind effect the audio? It was an overall quiet performance, but it seemed like the wind was causing some sort of phasing issue. That Septagram was getting blown all over the place!
Well, looks like I may just sell both of my Cinci Tix.
The wrecking ball to the nuts here is not only that the set is so close to 2 years ago, it's actually shorter and is costing me almost double what it did then!
Wings/Days is a significant piece of music and keeping that in the loop would make the whole show longer/better.
Sorry guys, Lost Keys doesn't count, this is an 8 song set. Less really is less. Feeling gouged here and would probably just feel better with the $200 back in hand.
Not mad at ya Tool, this one just isn't for me. I hope to see you again when a new album is released.
Well, looks like I may just sell both of my Cinci Tix.
The wrecking ball to the nuts here is not only that the set is so close to 2 years ago, it's actually shorter and is costing me almost double what it did then!
Wings/Days is a significant piece of music and keeping that in the loop would make the whole show longer/better.
Sorry guys, Lost Keys doesn't count, this is an 8 song set. Less really is less. Feeling gouged here and would probably just feel better with the $200 back in hand.
Not mad at ya Tool, this one just isn't for me. I hope to see you again when a new album is released.
Well, I am not expecting Wings/10k days at all, but I am expecting something to fill the gap left by its absence. I respect TooL for doing what they want to do, but it is hard to respect giving the fans who pay good money for a show only 8 songs that last about 90 minutes, including breaks. The shows I saw in 2001 and 2002 had, on average, 12 full songs. Again, I realize that this is a different time and place and all that, but I find it hard to believe that there are only 8 songs that they want to or are able to play for the fans on this tour. I'm still holding out hope that they add a few songs to the set and give the fans a solid 2 hours of TooL.
I find it hard to believe that there are only 8 songs that they want to or are able to play for the fans on this tour. I'm still holding out hope that they add a few songs to the set and give the fans a solid 2 hours of TooL.
Sucks, but I think the sad reality is yep, we're just getting the same show. Oh but, minus fucking 10000 days! In addition to everything, the absence of that song this go-round is...just...oh man, what the? Hard to believe, TOOL is doing this. And, of course, it'll all get turned around on the fans hoping for and expecting something different (nothing even extravagant or crazy, just different), and then voicing their disappointment. It's so damn bizarre. Ah well. I blame the wine?
At the last show in veags last time around, Maynard said something to effect that the people there last night are going to see the same show.
The band does not have new album to support yet.
Point is, I think everyone's expectation were a little high.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be dissapointed if the same eight songs are played throughout the short tour. Especially as I am travelling from Indianapolis to Toronto and Cinci. Call me the dumb ass if it is exactly the same. Last tour I went from Indy to Columbus, OH, Cinci, Georgia, Greenville and Las Vegas. So I guess I am the dumbass for spending so much cash to see the same show.
Or I still enjoy Tool and while not ideal, will still enjoy seeing them play the same eight songs I saw five time in 2007. Call me stupid.
__________________ Columbus 06, Atlanta 07, Greenville 07, Cincinnati 07, LV 07, Toronto 09, Cincinnati 09, St Louis 2010
Well, I am not expecting Wings/10k days at all, but I am expecting something to fill the gap left by its absence. I respect TooL for doing what they want to do, but it is hard to respect giving the fans who pay good money for a show only 8 songs that last about 90 minutes, including breaks. The shows I saw in 2001 and 2002 had, on average, 12 full songs. Again, I realize that this is a different time and place and all that, but I find it hard to believe that there are only 8 songs that they want to or are able to play for the fans on this tour. I'm still holding out hope that they add a few songs to the set and give the fans a solid 2 hours of TooL.
Considering geezers like Judas Priest have changed the set list almost 80% year over year makes it all the more baffling. Although AC/DC hasn't changed at all but they are in their 60's.
Tool is really in their prime although it may not feel like it to them. This was a chance to really put one out for the hardcore fans but they opted for something else. Still stoked on Flood and seeing the lights.
I think many fans set themselves up for heartache here....how many times did we see posts "I hope the play Ticks!" or "I predict 3Rd Eye and Hush" we kind of whipped ourselves into a frenzy here folks...
"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
I think many fans set themselves up for heartache here....how many times did we see posts "I hope the play Ticks!" or "I predict 3Rd Eye and Hush" we kind of whipped ourselves into a frenzy here folks...
....still holding out for "Revolve" :)
Agreed, but, hey, when you've heard those live before is it that big of a stretch to think "Man, it'd be cool if they'd play that again."? And not directed at you, but why the hell are expectations considered "high" because you assume they won't play the exact same songs in the exact same order they did 2 damn years ago? That's not a natural assumption? Trust me, I'm aware of TOOL's tendencies but shit was 2 years ago. My view of the whole no new album thing is that they now don't necessarily have to play the same stuff and have the chance to go somewhere different in their catalog. You know, call in a sub. I'm an idiot though, so yeah.
Last edited by sexwithfurniture; 07-20-2009 at 11:05 AM..
Question - does wind effect the audio? It was an overall quiet performance, but it seemed like the wind was causing some sort of phasing issue.
Wind absolutely affects sound, mostly the mid and higher frequencies. Not only do the sound waves get swirled all over the place, but the wind was strong enough in Denver to make the actual PA speakers swing back and forth. Yet another reason I don't like outdoor shows.
On the plus side, sound can be a lot better outdoors because you're not getting the reflections off all the surfaces like you would in an arena, and the Sound Pressure Levels don't affect you as adversely. But if the wind gets going, all bets are off.
I've seen Metallica 14 times. All but 4 of them opened with "Creeping Death". Out of 12 qualifying shows, "Harvester of Sorrow" was only played once. Of the 4 times I've seen "Queensryche", two the shows were EXACTLY the same. This summer, Motley Crue, Judas Preist, Aerosmith and the Cult are playing songs off of only one album! The only band that I have ever seen that changes it up show after show has been the Grateful Dead. Even the three Pink Floyd shows that I've seen have been virtually the same. I'm still looking forward to the show.
As for the pricing, unfortunately the band doesn't really have THAT much say in it. One thing that a lot of don't realize is that LiveNation/Ticketbastard is fucking the bands harder than us, that is if they don't sign one of their all-inclusive deals.
Sucks, but I think the sad reality is yep, we're just getting the same show. Oh but, minus fucking 10000 days! In addition to everything, the absence of that song this go-round is...just...oh man, what the? Hard to believe, TOOL is doing this. And, of course, it'll all get turned around on the fans hoping for and expecting something different (nothing even extravagant or crazy, just different), and then voicing their disappointment. It's so damn bizarre. Ah well. I blame the wine?
Yeah, well like I mentioned before, I am not surprised that Wings/10k days is not being played. Maynard has said himself that "he will never make that mistake again" in reference to putting himself out there with a song such as Wings/10k days in a live setting because it took too much out of him emotionally, mentally and physically.
I wouldn't want him, or any of them, to play something like that if they aren't comfortable doing it, but there are certainly other songs that they can do in place of it. Why they haven't done so yet is something that none of us can answer, obviously. I'm hoping the "yet" in that last sentence changes real soon...
