somebody explain. I get the general idea of the song but ,lemon juice??

got lemon juice up in your eye. Look elsewhere on these boards for an explaination as to where that saying comes from, something along the lines of "if you squeeze enough lemons you get juic in your eye" which would sting, obvioulsy.

So in context of the song its like, point your fingers enough and blame others and people might well tell you that you're no better than those you're pointing said finger at, kinda thing.

I'm bad at explaing things

Although the meaning of "chosen indigo" is still unclear (last I checked) the lemon juice follows that line of thinking. Maynard says "you're weepin' shades of chosen indigo / got lemon juice up in your eye"

I take it as he's saying the the tears are fake, rather than crying for real, you just got lemon juice in your eye causing the tears. Fake tears, crocodile tears.

*nod head* fake tears was what i thought too

I was thinking about the indigo, its a colour right? somewhere between blue and violet, but i rememer when some once said "that paint is indigo" (or something like that) I just thort it was blue, I couldnt tell the difference.
Perhaps when hes saying "weeping shades of chosen indigo" he saying that you're crying, whether its false or not its still crying, but you cant tell the difference (we knwo its fake though because of the context of the song) I think thats it jsut re-inforced by the "lemon juice up in your eye" line. any thorts?

I agree it sounds like he's just re-stating the fake crying. Good interpritation.

Still thinking "now will you weep in shades of chosen indigo?"

I kind of think he's talking about police in uniform when he says "chosen indigo". They are in indigo uniforms and are the "chosen" people that are above the law.

Spot on.

...okay, here's my own take on indigo/lemon, and indeed the whole song...

...'The Pot' uses the old adage 'the pot calling the kettle black' [...'pissed all over my black kettle'...] and is about [political] hypocrisy, ie. those in power [the 'Pot'] saying one thing to their electors [the 'kettles'] the while doing the opposite...

...as Maynard is becoming increasingly more adept at using creatively vague allegory and metaphor in his lyrics, he uses 'indigo' in reference to the colours that royalty and church officials wear...

...and yes, the lemon juice is in reference to the 'crocodile tears'...

...a couple of real-world examples...

...1) certain un-named political figure/s publicly weep for the soldiers dying in war, while happily keep sending the troops...

...2) church officials publicly apologise for the 'shocking' child abuse being perpetrated by their clergy members, while never actually disciplining them...

...I must admit, I am only [re]discovering Tool after being impressed by Maynard's lyrical prowess with APC, and it has come at a good time...

...finally, I think the final 2 lines of the song are

'Oligopolize - [from 'oligopoly'...or something similar]
You must have been out your mind'

...in this way, the hypocrisy has been extended from politics, royalty and church to that other great 'ruling class', the corporations...

M.

Greetings,

I guess this is my first post. I have been reading the board for a while (2 years maybe?) but my email was always under a blanket ban and I was always too lazy to make a new address so I never registered untill recently. Either way, I finally took 10 minutes to do that and I can finally post, so here goes...

Curious Yello, I pretty much agree with your interpretation. Just before I read your post I was thinking the same thing about the lemon juice bit; as a metaphor for the politicians' ability to do say and appear to believe one thing and do something completely different. The anti-war episode of South Park had that idea :)

I think this verse also fits the interpretation...

Soapbox house of cards and glass so
Don't go tossin' your stones around

Cards and Glass clearly means that the 'house' (community?) is fragile. Tossing stones, I think, is a reference to 'stoning' which is a sign of condemnation.

Basically the idea is that when you go around pointing your finger / stoning / condemning / judging it will inevitably come back and justifiably bite you in the ass (house of cards and glass).

Any thoughts?

Here is in an idea. It's a bit far fetched, but why not.

While I think the lemon juice in the eyes probably does mean making yourself cry, I think there could be a deeper meaning.
Weeping chosen shades of indigo could basically mean pretended to be blue right? Which goes with the next line. I think all this has been said before, but here is my extended take on it:

Eyeball deep in muddy waters means being in deep shit. But it also refers to the name of a well known blues singer.

Lemon juice in the eyes could refer to Blind Lemon Jefferson.

This is loose argument, but if anyone can find any more blues references in this song it could back up my strange theory.

I like "Oligopolize" way better than any other translation of what he's screaming at the end, especially "Ganja Please". However, I think there's an extar syllable in there, as Oligopolize has 5 syllables and I hear him sceaming 4. But, then, not everyone hears this the same way, so you've given me food for thought. Thanks!

--JE

And Maynard said it was their blues album! I think there is some kind of connection to the "blues" album, the "shades of indigo" and Muddy Waters. Because also the way he meant "blues" album was different shades of, well, yeah, indigo.

[QUOTE=herbnut]Greetings,

...spot on HerbNut...:0)

...I was focusing particularly on the 'lemon juice/indigo' lyrics, but you have demonstrated well that MJK's 'lyrical layering' is such that they can be related together to express a viewpoint, or separately to include 'tangential ideas'...all while still being coherent...

...if I was to dissect just ONE song, I could prattle on for several pages!!!

...thanks for taking the time to read my post, and also for showing that you are THINKING...which is always refreshing in our 'mentally numb' society...:)

...maintain the rage...and take no prisoners...

...any progress on the 'ganja police / oligopolise' lyric at the end of the song...as I am still trying to nail them down...?

...'guns-upheld lies' perhaps...?
...'gun shop of lies'...???

M.

I'd say most of the interpretations in this thread are ALL correct...at least to some degree. I suppose there isn't a right or wrong answer...it's what you take away from it and what it means to you that matters.

[QUOTE=Bukkhead]I like "Oligopolize" way better than any other translation of what he's screaming at the end, especially "Ganja Please". However, I think there's an extar syllable in there, as Oligopolize has 5 syllables and I hear him sceaming 4. But, then, not everyone hears this the same way, so you've given me food for thought. Thanks!

...Thanks bukkhead...

...if you read my latest reply to Herbnut, you will notice my interp has morphed from 'Oligopolise' to 'Gunshop of Lies'...which still maintains the flavour of the song and addresses your 4-syllable observation...

...though there still seems to be a 'p' sound between 'of' and 'lies'...[?]
...may just be a recording artefact...

...keep the ideas coming...

M.

lemon juice in your eye as a reference to heroin use?

i dont think it says "chosen indigo" i think it says "golden lemon juice" but what it says befor golden i cant tell yet...

This song is full of metaphors, or old sayign for shit.
You dumb fucks are alalyzing classic sayings for more then there worth.

Lemon jouice in the eye means to fake cry..shades of indigo is a metaphor for when a bitch crys and here makeup runs, so like blue shit running down.

A song based of a metaphor laced 99% with them.

Just a suggestion: Don't call someone a dumb fuck if you can't spell analyzing, LOL. Pot calling the kettle black? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo

"Indigo is the color of light between 440 to 420 nanometres in wavelength, placing it between blue and violet."

I believe he's saying "weaker shades of indigo" which would be 420 nanometres!

"The Pot". Concidence? I think not.

thats the point of the 10,000 days section of this forum. everyone seems to be looking for more in the music, lyrics, artwork, everything. why? because everyone knows the album is sub par.

You are sub par if you think this album is sub par. Tool has changed over the years, and if you're expecting them to release Undertow again... well maybe you should just listen to Undertow again. LOL

Those two lines describe someone who is 'going off at the mouth' and pontificating/criticizing but is 'hardly one to talk'. The whole basis for their arguement/point is weak (house of cards) and that person is being hypocritical as well (the glass house; they are not infallible either).
As the idiom goes: people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Sounds like it's nothing but hot air and bullshit and the suggestion is to shut up.

PLEASE don't give ppl shit for their spelling - to me its part of the whole elitist, academic, you-can't-spell-so-you're-a-dumb-cunt, egotist way of thinking.

he probly didn't even give a shit how he spelt his words since the end result was he was effective in conveying his message - was he not? - that's the point - communication, not 'perfection'

nothing personal - end rant.

[QUOTE=
Sounds like it's nothing but hot air and bullshit and the suggestion is to shut up.[/QUOTE]

yes

Weird, I always belived it to be now you weep and change the chosen into gold. Doesnt quit make sense to me yet. But quite often I hear peoples translations of these songs and I can clearly tell that they are wrong, like "I own the TV" is obviously "Eye on the TV", which makes sense cause its a song about our need to watch things die and suffer (rotten.com). I think maybe some of the translators are listening through 1 inch pc speakers.

maybe... if we can't read what he wrote (or, if he doesn't take the time to reread what he wrote himself) then we tend to think (a) he can't really write, which is something most people who have access to the internet learn in kindergarden or the first grade, so maybe his thinking skills are around that level and we shouldn't bother trying to decipher his jumble of language symbols, or (b) he won't even take the time to proof-read what he's written, making it hard for anyone to actually think that his post was important enough to him, let alone important enough for anyone else to read.


... but, I agree. Unless the spelling is heinously attrocious, the ad hominem "you-can't-spell" attack is a bit overused.

I think that's a good explanation. You could also tie in the fact that the color blue represents sadness, and that by indigo being a color or shade that most people mistake for blue, "weeping shades of chosen indigo" could be a condition that most people would mistake for true sadness, when it is actually not.

"The human eye is relatively insensitive to indigo's frequencies, and some otherwise well-sighted people cannot distinguish indigo from blue and violet. For this reason some commentators including Isaac Asimov have suggested that indigo should not be regarded as a color in its own right but merely as a shade of blue or violet." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo)

Really. I don't think it's "lemon juice". I'm hearing "got a little juiced up in your...high..eye". Hypocrisy of alcohol being legal and not pot. Not every time, but it's there.

Have anyone here heard about the indigo childs?
i think it goes for that way...
the lemmon juice is for the eyes red...
"you call your self a sort of worldchanger but you are just like the rest of the people: stoned, stupid and numb"

I hear "tangible lies" not what you're hearing. Just my opinion... but makes a little sense...

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything that pertains to the subject matter, but I have to comment on the fact that, it amazes me that so much thought from so many different perspectives is pesented on this forum. Who is to say that any of us has the slightest inkling as to what MJK is actually refering to. I'm just grateful that a group still exists that actually elicits this kind of thought and response from its musical contribution.

I love the idea that this is their "rhythm and indigo" album!

"Now you're reaping shades of chosen indigo, got lemon juice up in your eye."


Indigo is the color associated with the "third eye" chakra. The third eye chakra is related to insight, knowledge of reality, etc.

By "reaping shades of chosen indigo" Maynard is characterizing a person who is basically seeing what he wants to see through that third eye, and excluding the things that don't agree with his preconceptions. He's picking and choosing which "shades of indigo", which limited aspects of reality, that he will pay mind to while ignoring others. He does this because, just as "kangaroo courts" are notorious for having made judgement even before the trial has begun, this person has made their judgement about the nature of reality before they even go out and search for the facts. He's choosing to only pay mind to the information he receives that supports his already established beliefs.


Lemon juice is thought by some to improve your eyesight when you wash your eyes with it. So, the person in this song being characterized is the type of person who is trying to improve his vision, or perhaps perception of reality, by supposedly washing his eyes (probably his third eye) with lemons. This is a good thing, that he's trying to become clear-sighted, but it seems the character is falling short of the ideal through selectively seeing only what he wants to see.


-Godin

idk what any of the song means alll i know is that its a good song

While that all sounds good. I highly discredit anything you just said.

I always assumed the shades of indigo had to do with chakras and things of that nature, but I'm starting to think the song is more physical and political. Good thread.