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Old 09-13-2003, 11:01 AM   #41
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Re: different mouths, same bullshit coming out of them...

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Originally Posted by lilypie
Hahahaha... you are funny. Since when are people able to know other people opinons unless they are published someplace? And unless you are him, then I would guess that you are just blowing smoke out your ass. And you know I really don't want anyone to spoon feed me, I like my opinons and don't really care if you agree with them or not. I don't know how you can propose to know someone else's opinons when you are not them, but I will tell you this, you gave me one hell of a laugh....you said a lot of crap and never really said anything at all.


Once again, i'm not claiming to know anyones opinions. some of you people are so hard to communicate with, so fuck it.
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Old 09-13-2003, 11:23 AM   #42
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Re: different mouths, same bullshit coming out of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
Once again, i'm not claiming to know anyones opinions. some of you people are so hard to communicate with, so fuck it.

How hard do you really try? It has been quite a while since you have posted in this thread. I was curious how you would respond, but since no response came...well, yeah, fuck it. We'll just read your glorious mind and assume that you are right no matter how well or poorly you communicate your OPINIONS.

Let's clarify, shall we? Your previous post was not really one pointed. Read it again. It is vague and it sprawls in a way that made it hard for me to understand your point. Yet, it has a tone that makes it sound like you feel superior to us, or to somone here. So you say, DON'T TAKE THAT 'THINK FOR YOURSELF' SHIT TOO FAR but make sure YOU THINK FOR YOURSELF but YOUR STUPID IF YOU DON'T THINK LIKE ME...and expect people not to get pissed about it here? Sorry, sweety, it doesn't work like that. What IS your point? Try to express yourself so that people understand you. For the most part, the forums here seem to generally except differing and dissenting opinions so long as they aren't stated in a condescending manner.

Last edited by reedc33; 09-13-2003 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 09-13-2003, 11:53 AM   #43
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

"Some things did actually happen??? Are you sure about this? I dont know, it seems that some things might not have happened."

Okay, here I go explaining myself agin in more simplified terms.

Yes, some things did actually happen, it's called reality, truth. And yes, some things did not actually happen, it's called deception, lies. Alot of our true history is hidden from us by lies and rearranging the truth. Same goes for our current events.

"But I dont know, because I wasnt there. But apparently you were, so you enlighten us all and tell us what color Jesus' hair was. And which hand he used to wipe his ass? Did he shit sugary-crystalled rose petals? No? Are you sure?"

Um, again, this is due to people reading my text the way they want to and adding things that are not there. No I never said I was there. But I'm sure it was fun for you to create your text response, yeah?

"You preach that people take the think for yourself thing too far and then call us all sheep. That makes more sense than anything else I have ever heard. Rock on."

Uh yeah, rock on?!

"Too Lazy to study the past? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Sure, there is a book thats 2000 years old that some people base their entire lives on, which I have studied cover to cover, is that what you mean?"


um, kind of. Yet the Bible was originally written in hebrew, a language based on numbers. To interperate it in english is modifying it. for example, english version says " In the beggening, god created the heavens and the earth" it actually states something more like "In the beggening, the elohim flew over the waters" but not exactly, I'd have to speak hebrew and you probably would not understand. Also, most of the Old Testement was actually rewritten by the hebrews based on stories taken from an earlier Matriarchael civilization, preistesses, a goddess religion. It was taken and rewritten by the invading male dominating patriarchael society. This is why those studying the ancient hebrew text are discovering more and more references to god as a plural, meaning group of sky deities, and more references of god in a female tense, like goddess in english.

"Because I will still tell you that Maynard is using Christ as an example to get his main point across. If you want to go on thinking its about Jesus, and thats it, fine. It obviously suits your purpose. This thread was not for people to come in and start bashing those who think differently. No one bashed you till now."

Um actually, I've been being bashed, yup. If you look at my other posts such as No Quarter, then, uh, you'll see. But um, yeah okay, Maynard is using Christ as an example, but then what's the point, so do christians who take money from the unfortunant in his name, and so do preists who will molest and rape you while stating his name, and I guess your simply basing your knowledge of Jesus on the Bible, a book of tales. But a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless you believe a picture exists, (or a c.i.a. holographic depiction of the crucifiction ) Then you have to look towards something like archaeology for the truth of the matter. A good place to start would be the Rennes-Le-Chateu.

"For those of you wanting to explore the higher dimensions of this song, by all means continue."[/QUOTE]

Um, right on?

Last edited by rebecca22; 09-13-2003 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 09-13-2003, 12:18 PM   #44
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Re: different mouths, same bullshit coming out of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by reedc33
"How hard do you really try? It has been quite a while since you have posted in this thread. I was curious how you would respond, but since no response came...well, yeah, fuck it. We'll just read your glorious mind and assume that you are right no matter how well or poorly you communicate your OPINIONS."

Listen, my life does not revolve around this site, and I am sorry that you waste your time sitting around, waiting for me to reply to your misinterperated post. When i go online, I spend my time finding out whats going on for real in this world. I don't watch cnn, I look for the REAL news, alright? (InfoWars.com is a good place to start) Obiously yours does, because damn! You sure posted this one quick! Spend your time elsewere (as does tool i'm sure) and maybe you would understand what I am talking about more easier, since it seems to matter to you so much what I think and do. If I communicate my opinions poorly, why waste your time on them? Got ya there, huh.

"Let's clarify, shall we? Your previous post was not really one pointed. Read it again. It is vague and it sprawls in a way that made it hard for me to understand your point. "

My point is, I and others belive that this song is about Jesus surviving his so called crucifiction (fiction is right) on the cross, and continued to live to hear his own eulogy.

"Yet, it has a tone that makes it sound like you feel superior to us, or to somone here."

It's not my fault that you or others have an inferiority complex. That's not my problem. So don't waste yourself picking apart my text so you can come up with some fantastic comeback to text that does not exist. Let me simlify that for simpler minds- I never said I was superior to y'all.

"So you say, DON'T TAKE THAT 'THINK FOR YOURSELF' SHIT TOO FAR but make sure YOU THINK FOR YOURSELF but YOUR STUPID IF YOU DON'T THINK LIKE ME..."

See, that last part? added! NOT MY TEXT.

"...and expect people not to get pissed about it here? Sorry, sweety, it doesn't work like that."

If I am such a sweety, smarty, then why are you so pissed off? Why are you pissed? Because I look deeper and speak plainly? That's how you came to misinterperate my text...

"What IS your point? Try to express yourself so that people understand you. For the most part, the forums here seem to generally except differing and dissenting opinions so long as they aren't stated in a condescending manner."
I would take your advice if it wasn't for the fact that there are others out there that understand me just fine, and I don't wish to take the time to re-explain my self to those who just don't get it, or deal with those bored people who choose to misinterperate or add to my text. Maybe you should re-examin your use of the word "condenscending".
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Old 09-13-2003, 12:36 PM   #45
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Re: Not about Jesus...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJRocker2003
The lyrics simply don't fit. Such phrases as "waiving and pointing his finger at everything but his heart." Jesus was never judgemental (except to the pharasees for THEIR hypocrisy), and was always loving, patient and kind. "It was SOO LOUD, he sure could YELL." Come on, do you honestly think Jesus ranted and raved and yelled? I don't think so, neither the Bible nor historical accounts suggest it.

"Uh yeah, and yes they did by the way. The lyrics fit like a glove."

Also, he knew he would have to die, but he never openly told anyone, not even his disciples, that he was going to die for their sins.

"sounds like sunday school"

Also, Jesus wasn't a false messiah,

"I never stated anything in religious terms"

he did die and was ressurrected, unlike say Jim Jones or David Koresh.

"how can you compare?"

I think this song is about false prophets such as those mentioned and basically anyone who takes something pure, such as Jesus' teachings, and skews them to his own ends.

"wow, your really religious. Christian?"

I understand why some of you people are angry and want to blame someone like Jesus, because it's easy to blame someone who doesn't fight back, but I think Jesus only did good for the world.

"Okay, I'm not angry and looking to blame Jesus. Funny, i don't remember saying that at all?..."

It's people like Pope Innocent III (the crusades) and all those sick clergymen who raped and molested children that you should be angry at.

"True"

Wear your grudges like crowns, but wear them wisely...
This one is simple. Everything you have stated, you are quoting directly from the bible, or some sunday school teacher, basically directly from within some religious confines. Listen. The bible itself is, in it's english version, a series of tales. You have to re-read it in hebrew to try and grasp the truth. Besides, if you believe that the Bible is a 24-7 log of Jesus's (or any Biblical figure on that note) every action, then you might as well be living in wonderland. Since you obviously have internet access, you should use it to do more research, outside of your religion. I can assure you that a whole new world of truth will be opened to you.
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Old 09-13-2003, 01:35 PM   #46
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Re: different mouths, same bullshit coming out of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
Oh, but if you did, then you would see you are making an ass out of yourself, and you would not want that, now would you?

You take this metaphorical shit to far. Some things did actually happen, truth is reality, that is why your dumb ass is here today.
You take the "Think for yourself" quote to far, over questioning.

You don't know anything about the past, so keep listening to your sunday school teachers, history teachers, freinds, whoever, and feed off their dumb ass veiws instead of picking up a shovel and digging for your self.
I don't really think I put any words into your mouth. If you choose to be abrasive in the way your communicate, then people will likely be abrasive back. I don't fault you for that, but I would think to myself(ok, I said that outloud?) that you may be being naive if you don't expect people to be abrasive back to you.

I'm not going to justify anything about myself that you felt the need to attack(you know, spending/wasting my life on this site, etc...?). If you are curious to know what I do for a living and why I can sometimes check up on this site frequently, sometimes infrequently, I'll tell you. But if your attack on me wasn't meant to be viewed as condescending, then I better get a dictionary and look up the word, because...well, yeah...it seemed a little condescending to me.
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:46 AM   #47
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
"Some things did actually happen??? Are you sure about this? I dont know, it seems that some things might not have happened."

Yes, some things did actually happen, it's called reality, truth. And yes, some things did not actually happen, it's called deception, lies. Alot of our true history is hidden from us by lies and rearranging the truth. Same goes for our current events.

"But I dont know, because I wasnt there. But apparently you were, so you enlighten us all and tell us what color Jesus' hair was. And which hand he used to wipe his ass? Did he shit sugary-crystalled rose petals? No? Are you sure?"

Um, again, this is due to people reading my text the way they want to and adding things that are not there. No I never said I was there. But I'm sure it was fun for you to create your text response, yeah?

"You preach that people take the think for yourself thing too far and then call us all sheep. That makes more sense than anything else I have ever heard. Rock on."

Uh yeah, rock on?!

"Too Lazy to study the past? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Sure, there is a book thats 2000 years old that some people base their entire lives on, which I have studied cover to cover, is that what you mean?"


um, kind of. Yet the Bible was originally written in hebrew, a language based on numbers. To interperate it in english is modifying it. for example, english version says " In the beggening, god created the heavens and the earth" it actually states something more like "In the beggening, the elohim flew over the waters" but not exactly, I'd have to speak hebrew and you probably would not understand. Also, most of the Old Testement was actually rewritten by the hebrews based on stories taken from an earlier Matriarchael civilization, preistesses, a goddess religion. It was taken and rewritten by the invading male dominating patriarchael society. This is why those studying the ancient hebrew text are discovering more and more references to god as a plural, meaning group of sky deities, and more references of god in a female tense, like goddess in english.

"Because I will still tell you that Maynard is using Christ as an example to get his main point across. If you want to go on thinking its about Jesus, and thats it, fine. It obviously suits your purpose. This thread was not for people to come in and start bashing those who think differently. No one bashed you till now."

Um actually, I've been being bashed, yup. If you look at my other posts such as No Quarter, then, uh, you'll see. But um, yeah okay, Maynard is using Christ as an example, but then what's the point, so do christians who take money from the unfortunant in his name, and so do preists who will molest and rape you while stating his name, and I guess your simply basing your knowledge of Jesus on the Bible, a book of tales. But a picture is worth a thousand words. And unless you believe a picture exists, (or a c.i.a. holographic depiction of the crucifiction ) Then you have to look towards something like archaeology for the truth of the matter. A good place to start would be the Rennes-Le-Chateu.

"For those of you wanting to explore the higher dimensions of this song, by all means continue."
Um, right on?[/QUOTE]

Yes, right on. I was talking to others, obviously.

Ah, yes, reality, truth. Are you aware that nothing escapes change? Not human bodies, not the color of leaves, not truth, not reality. If you will look at the 2nd contest dan has going on you will find that lots of people think perception=reality. Your reality is worlds apart from mine, I can tell that already. The truth changes, rebecca. For eons the "truth" was that the world was flat. People lived their lives based on this truth, their realities were shaped on this truth. People died when they started fucking with this truth. i.e. Galileo. The new truth was that the earth was not flat, and people eventually had to come to terms with this. This is but one example of how the truth changes.

You said you knew Jesus physically existed, and I wondered how you knew. You did not answer my question, and indeed it was fun to make that reply.

Trust me, I know what languages the Bible was written in. And I am aware of the translation problem. Even though you recognize there is a problem, you still take the words literally, it seems. You seem to be against metaphors when Jesus entire life is one big metaphor, an example of our future, an example of what is possible as a human.

I dont care what people do in the name of Jesus, once again you skirt around the real issue. You think Maynard is talking specifically about Christ in this song, thus taking what little references you can find, cross-reference them with other bands' songs (which is totally irresponsible as a listener) and come to the literal conclusion and allow no more room for your personal truth to change. Once again, if thats what you want to do, then fine. You are still an arrogant condescending know-it-all college student. Your abrasive nature will turn people off for as long as you have it. You fouond some other assholes with which to share your time, who "understand" you? Super job!! So keep your little circle of friends and dont make any effort to reach those outside that circle, by any means!! Because you know what, they dont matter! ****

Last edited by paraflux; 09-16-2003 at 07:48 AM..
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:59 AM   #48
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Re: different mouths, same bullshit coming out of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
Once again, i'm not claiming to know anyones opinions. some of you people are so hard to communicate with, so fuck it.
This is a fucking riot. You dont try to communicate at all. You come in and drop a load of shit everywhere, then attack people, call them dumbasses, and are otherwise condescending. I'm sure your college out there in good ol California has a class on interpersonal communication. I suggest if you really think you try to communicate with people intelligently that you take that class and make a self-discovery, that you are truly an abrasive know-it-all.

I'm glad Tool decided that even though people are hard to communicate with that they would do the best they could.
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:13 AM   #49
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Um, right on?


Yes, right on. I was talking to others, obviously.

Okay, I'm glad we cleared that up.



Ah, yes, reality, truth. Are you aware that nothing escapes change? Not human bodies, not the color of leaves, not truth, not reality.

Yes I knew that.



If you will look at the 2nd contest dan has going on you will find that lots of people think perception=reality.

I did not know about the contest, I get your point none the less.



Your reality is worlds apart from mine, I can tell that already.

I'm glad we cleared that up.



The truth changes, rebecca.

Not the pure truth that I am searching out. I feel it in me calling me like it's been here all along. Long before I ever was.



For eons the "truth" was that the world was flat. People lived their lives based on this truth, their realities were shaped on this truth. People died when they started fucking with this truth. i.e. Galileo. The new truth was that the earth was not flat, and people eventually had to come to terms with this. This is but one example of how the truth changes.

That's not truth, that's an old point of veiw shared among that particular society. Because they believed it, never meant it was truth, at least to me, don't think I'm forcing you to swallow that.



You said you knew Jesus physically existed, and I wondered how you knew. You did not answer my question, and indeed it was fun to make that reply.

I did not say I knew or know he physically existed, I still don't know for sure, but from what I have read, I feel that he did, as a human being.



Trust me, I know what languages the Bible was written in. And I am aware of the translation problem. Even though you recognize there is a problem, you still take the words literally, it seems.

Not all of them, it's not that easy to simplify my veiw on the bible itself in a small sentence as you have done to me.



You seem to be against metaphors when Jesus entire life is one big metaphor, an example of our future, an example of what is possible as a human.

I am not against metaphors. I think people use the idea of them to twist truth.



I dont care what people do in the name of Jesus, once again you skirt around the real issue. You think Maynard is talking specifically about Christ in this song, thus taking what little references you can find, cross-reference them with other bands' songs (which is totally irresponsible as a listener) and come to the literal conclusion and allow no more room for your personal truth to change.

I noticed a lot more than a little references in this song to christ. I never cross referenced this song to another band's lyrics, where did you read that? When did I say that? Don't talk about my personal truth and what room I give it to change, you can't know me personally from a few posts.



Once again, if thats what you want to do, then fine. You are still an arrogant condescending know-it-all college student.

Not really, but it's your right to think of me however you want.



Your abrasive nature will turn people off for as long as you have it.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep in mind that I need to change how I type just so I don't piss off people like you who don't personally know me, but seem to be able to magically read me and not just my posts.



You fouond some other assholes with which to share your time, who "understand" you? Super job!! So keep your little circle of friends and dont make any effort to reach those outside that circle, by any means!! Because you know what, they dont matter!

You call me abrasive?! Come on, now your not just talking about me, your talking about people that you don't know anything about. Who are you to judge who and who doesn't matter? They matter enough for you to call them assholes, so you just contradicted yourself.



****[/QUOTE]

I don't know what pisses you off more, That I'm female, That I'm intelligent, That I know many things that this male dominated society and it's male leaders don't want me to know... I get dumped all over for defending my point of veiw, and you somehow feel the erge to defend yourself from me?! I'm actually easy to get along with...Even though I may not have portrayed it here, I do respect other peoples opnions and points of veiw, I guess it just frustrates me to see so many people closed off to the possibilities that the spiritual side of life has to offer. Obviously I have upset you to the point that you feel you need to shame me in some way, I'm sorry I made you take time out of your short life to post me back.
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Old 09-17-2003, 05:18 AM   #50
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
I don't know what pisses you off more, That I'm female, That I'm intelligent, That I know many things that this male dominated society and it's male leaders don't want me to know... I get dumped all over for defending my point of veiw, and you somehow feel the erge to defend yourself from me?! I'm actually easy to get along with...Even though I may not have portrayed it here, I do respect other peoples opnions and points of veiw, I guess it just frustrates me to see so many people closed off to the possibilities that the spiritual side of life has to offer. Obviously I have upset you to the point that you feel you need to shame me in some way, I'm sorry I made you take time out of your short life to post me back.

Whaa! Rebecca, neither I nor paraflux(do you mind if I speak for you right now?) deny spirituality-go look in the Lateralus section. This conversation hasn't been about that. It has been about interpretation and metaphor. Hasn't it? I, again, am willing to have respect for others opinions as long as they aren't put in a superior and angry tone. I wasn't criticising your point of view, but your delivery. I guess I shouldn't have done that...(?)...
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Old 09-17-2003, 07:46 AM   #51
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This is over now. You still seem to miss the point, rebecca, and no, I dont care if you are female, the whole male-dominated society crap must be something you learned at a women's rights class. And your intelligence has yet to show, which is part of the problem. The issue is not your opinions. I would have far more respect for them if you came to people saying, "This is what I think because..." and not "This is what I think and if you dont think the same way, because I KNOW the ONE and ONLY truth that has been calling ME, then you are a fucking dumbass moron." The former, you will find, works better in the real world. The latter is reserved for people who dont really want to communicate with others, just make a lot of noise. If you respect that other people have truths as well as you, then your opinions will be considered. It took me a while, but at least I understand your jimmy 11:11 theory, after I got past the condescending nature of the posts.
Truth and point of view are the same thing. You try to differentiate between the two, but they are really not separate entities. 50 years from now the truth will be different again, maybe we will learn that Earth is a hologram and we are nothing but bits and bytes. I dont pretend to know what it will be 50 years from now. The truth you feel inside you is one everybody who wants to awaken feels, but it is different for every person. It calls to them in different ways, it lights up different parts of the path, and indeed, it is one that has been inside of us forever. When we realize it, its like we should kick ourself in the teeth for not remembering it sooner.
The cross-references I was talking about was you talking about Maynard's lyrics in Judith. Its a different issue in that song, therefore irresponsible as a listener to think they are talking about the same thing.
You didnt actually say that I deny spirituality, which I am glad for, for certainly I do not. I just tend to express my views in a manner that is respectful of others' opinions. Whether I feel the people I talk to are dumbasses or not doesnt matter, I wont bring that up because guess what? It makes people defensive and then they wont listen to a goddamn thing I say. And if they wont listen, there is no point in talking. It's simple communication skills, perhaps the most basic principle.
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Old 09-30-2003, 11:22 AM   #52
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
The story is that Jesus died for our sins so that we could have a chance at heaven. Is it a metaphor?

...........

Some people are stuck thinking that
a) Maynard is always writing from his own perspective when in actuality he takes on many different characters
b) Tool hates Jesus when it is actually christianity that is to blame, men in power controlling the weak
Let me ask this: How does Jesus's sacrifice allow us to get to heaven? If I murdered an innocent man, and Jesus sacrifices himself for me, how can that rectify what I did? I am still a murderer. I never asked for forgiveness or expressed any regret for my actions. I am evil and Jesus has just let me into heaven. That is BS.

Also, I agree that Tool doesn't "hate Jesus", but does in some way want to make people realize the hold Christianty has over the world. So if they want to attack Christianity, it makes sense to attack Jesus. Cut off the head of the Beast. To think anything Tool says about Jesus is an actual pointed attack on the actions of Jesus as a person or being is wrong, they are just attacking the ideas of a flawed belief system.

Personally, I think this song COULD have to do with "Jesus as a person." Someone with a messianic complex who thinks they are God's son (and if Jesus the person ever really lived, this is one possible explanation). For the sake of this argument, let's assume this about Jesus the person. He of course did convince some people he was God's son. These people wrote the Gospel and it was passed on and on with few followers until Emperor Constanine made Christianity the universal Roman religion. In this case, Maynard could be looking back into history and saying, yeah, Jesus, you sure fooled a lot of people. But I know you are not divinity, I'm not fooled. I know its all bullshit. You failed to get me.

Now that's just a personal interpretation, and I know its a stretch.
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Old 09-30-2003, 08:12 PM   #53
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by Aureolei
Ok if so, what's with the Judith lyrics from APC? That singled out one God and one faith, and guess who wrote it.. yeah.


Wanna retract now? No crap there's mataphors. I guess the obvious isn't too obvious for some.
I think that you are very narrow minded. In the song "Judith" he did not say "fuck Jesus Christ". He say god. Think about it. People can call anything there god. A fuckin computer can be considered a god to some people. You need to retract that staement. You are the one that doesn't open your mind to other possibilities. Damn who knows. He could have been talking to you.
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Old 09-30-2003, 09:39 PM   #54
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by soul tapp
I think that you are very narrow minded. In the song "Judith" he did not say "fuck Jesus Christ". He say god. Think about it. People can call anything there god. A fuckin computer can be considered a god to some people. You need to retract that staement. You are the one that doesn't open your mind to other possibilities. Damn who knows. He could have been talking to you.
Yeah but he says "Fuck your God, your Lord, your CHRIST. HE did this.... Pray to your CHRIST to your God....never taste of the fruit..."

Judith is about Christianity. The fruit is a reference to the garden of Eden. Yeah, usually Maynard's lyrics are open to alot of interpretation but this is pretty damn clear.

"Fuck you God, your Lord, your Christ": because the next sentence starts with the pronoun "He", it implies grammatically that this sentence is about only one person (three different names for Christ).
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Old 10-01-2003, 04:13 AM   #55
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by dissonance51765
Yeah but he says "Fuck your God, your Lord, your CHRIST. HE did this.... Pray to your CHRIST to your God....never taste of the fruit..."

Judith is about Christianity. The fruit is a reference to the garden of Eden. Yeah, usually Maynard's lyrics are open to alot of interpretation but this is pretty damn clear.

"Fuck you God, your Lord, your Christ": because the next sentence starts with the pronoun "He", it implies grammatically that this sentence is about only one person (three different names for Christ).

Do I have to paste the lyrics to the song **EULOGY**?
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Old 10-01-2003, 07:00 AM   #56
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by Lachrymologist
And I don't think Jesus every actually said that he would die for us.
jesus said that he would die for us numerous times. have you even read the bible? know what you're talking about before you comment about it.
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Old 10-02-2003, 03:17 AM   #57
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by rebecca22
I'm not really a know-it-all. I'm actually three fourteen-year olds in suburban Ohio. We've been pretending to be someone named Rebbecca. You didn't really think anyone could be this angry, even a close-minded feminist. Did you? Muwahhahahahahah!


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I knew it.
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Old 10-02-2003, 10:59 AM   #58
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by dissonance51765
Yeah but he says "Fuck your God, your Lord, your CHRIST. HE did this.... Pray to your CHRIST to your God....never taste of the fruit..."

Judith is about Christianity. The fruit is a reference to the garden of Eden. Yeah, usually Maynard's lyrics are open to alot of interpretation but this is pretty damn clear.

"Fuck you God, your Lord, your Christ": because the next sentence starts with the pronoun "He", it implies grammatically that this sentence is about only one person (three different names for Christ).
While Judith may be about Christianity, its not about Christianity in general, just about what his mother tried to teach him. I feel the same way about my parents. They shoved this God down my throat and up my ass (Even God doesnt feel good up there) and it made me very bitter when I had realizations. Picture Maynard's mom laying on her deathbed, still talking about Jesus and God. Of course Maynard, being a son as well as a singer, feels this way about her ideas. Fuck them. Fuck your God, your "loyal" christ. Where are they now while you are dying? HE did this to you yet you still praise his name. You will never taste of the fruit because you are scared to do anything but talk about it and look at it.
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:03 AM   #59
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I agree very much Paraflux. I would like to add something that I feel fits that song absolutely perfectly:

There's a guy who is a good guy, he loves his family and takes care of them. He's a very faithful and loyal Christian and not only goes to church a lot but also obeys what the Bible says.

He goes to work one day. He's totally minding his own business, just getting his morning coffee, when a terrorist crashes a plane into the building and kills him. He was an innocent man, and he died for some psycho terrorist bullshit.

Now, what does his widow say through her tears at the funeral? You know exactly what: "It's all part of God's Plan."

That is absolutely in-fucking-sane. If God exists, He allowed that innocent man to die for no good reason. The man did nothing to deserve it and his family did nothing to deserve to lose him. Maynard speaks to that widow in Judith. Fuck your God.

All this attributing misfortune to God's Plan bullshit Christians do makes me so mad. I heard so much about God's Plan after Sept. 11 it made we want to puke. (Don't forget the reason the terrorists attacked: Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all bickering and murdering over the same God - yet another great part of his plan)

PS: Maynard wrote those lyrics before Sept. 11. He did a great job of defining an idea, then a situation occurs and people react in a way that fits his idea perfectly. That is a testament to how much of a grip on the nature of humanity Maynard has when he is writing. On the same note, if the Califorinia recall election isn't a circus sideshow of hopeless fucking freaks, I don't know what is. Another good call by Maynard. Recently on Jay Leno, Robert Downey Jr. said "this state needs an enema." That's exactly what MJK has been saying for the past seven years. (You know there's something wrong when Robert Downey Jr (he had many recurring huge drug problems) realizes it)

Last edited by dissonance51765; 10-03-2003 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:29 AM   #60
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by mstajduh
if any one of you guys can cheat death to live in your human body eternally to defy God, I'd like to see it.

until then, accept the fact that there is birth and there is death.. you can't have one without the other.. and this My friends, is God... the balance of the universe.
I agree that what you said "is God" in a certain sense, but its not what a lot of Christians believe, and that's the point of the song.
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Old 10-05-2003, 08:18 AM   #61
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Sorry if this is a bit late but I've been led to believe by many people that this song is about Kurt Cobain, not Jesus. I didn't read through all the posts though so someone could've already said this...
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Old 10-05-2003, 11:07 AM   #62
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Ignorant Response

Original Posting From paraflux
Maynard uses the example of Christ, as he often does, to illustrate his point about sheep following blindly as well as to make fun of people who allow themselves to be put on a pedestal.


Simple, eloquent, and poignant. Being that I myself have a lot of anger towards religious martyrs, especially Jesus Christ, it's easy to identify this hateful song with that being. I'm talking to a lot of Christians right now; I'm trying to see their perspective on what Christianity has brought to them. The more I talk to these people, I see how their ideas, beliefs, feelings, and emotions are dictated by what others say (the Bible).

I am venturing into the Bible. Why not? The Bible seems to be the book that everyone has an opinion on whether they have read it or not. It's amazing to see these people latch on to every word and thought to dictate who they are and how they dictate their lives.

I have found Christians who believe, and their thoughts are genuine unto themselves. I'm looking because I want to believe so much that Jesus Christ was sent to "die for me". At the end of the crucifixion to ask God why was all this possible: Jesus Christ essentially seperated himself from God, and this ultimately proves the Trinity to be facade.

God is God. Was God truly the person to send himself (Jesus was the son but also God in the flesh--Trinity)--to earth, as a mortal--to identify with us and save us.

The last three lines of Eulogy bring my belief in the context of the poetry into question:

To ascend you must die
You must be crucified
Goodbye


The song was so cut-and-dry, but now it seems to not be a hateful work against the ministry of Jesus Christ--or where these statements there to serve a sarcastic purpose?
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Old 10-05-2003, 02:22 PM   #63
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by Ian
Sorry if this is a bit late but I've been led to believe by many people that this song is about Kurt Cobain, not Jesus. I didn't read through all the posts though so someone could've already said this...

You've been led to believe? For some reason I find that phrase funny.
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Old 10-05-2003, 04:14 PM   #64
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Yeah. I'm a funny guy. Praise me.
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Old 10-06-2003, 09:11 AM   #65
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Its sarcastic to the core, but its also the viewpoint of the sheep to the T. Its sarcastic when WE look at the words, but its sad to hear them being said in earnest. Sheep go through leaders like underwear.
The Bible... eh. Its a good book, if you can find one that is untranslated and you speak Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic. For the people 2000 years ago, they needed it to survive. How else could a young sentient race stay alive than to have morals and guidelines and know they are being watched constantly by an omnipotent being? The Bible has always been about control, at first to control humans for survival purposes, and now to control humans for any other purpose, from economic to positions of power. There are some great verses in the Bible, like Paul speaking to the Corinthians about the "inner man" or "inner being." Like us being told we are made in the image of God himself. That's pretty cool. But its all metaphors. Christ himself may be a metaphor, he may not have actually existed, but who the fuck cares? The story is still the same, like any other book.
If you want to believe Jesus Christ was crucified for your sins on top of Golgotha between two thieves, that's fine with me. But if you would rather KNOW that Jesus is just an example for what humans can become, an example of what we can have when we are ready to claim our birthright, that would certainly be fine too. think about it. We are called children of God. Children inevitably grow up. It's time we grew up.
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Old 10-06-2003, 09:26 AM   #66
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Kurt Cobain is another example of who this song COULD potentially be about, depending on who's listening.

List of people Eulogy could be about:
Jesus H. motherfucking Christ goddammit
Kurt Cobain
Jim Jones
Socrates
Galileo
the guy next to you on the bus if he is reading "Business Weekly"
the girl you just fucked the shit out of

it could be about anyone at all, its not important to name names.
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Old 10-06-2003, 04:28 PM   #67
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followers

I"m sure someone probably pointed this out already, but I haven't seen it on this thread so:

I don't think this song is about leaders. For every leader there must be at least one follower. If we would quit listening to those people who are liars, munipulative, or just plain stupid, then there wouldn't be any bad leaders.

"Ever heard of Jesus Christ, or Buddah, or Mohammed, or any of those guys. They had some pretty good ideas, but their agents tried to make some money off of them and fucked everything up. Never trust an agent. "- Maynard James Keenan (exlaining "Opiate" at a concert)
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Old 10-07-2003, 07:57 AM   #68
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Yes, its more about the attitude and hysteria and frenzy of the sheep. Its also from the perspective of the sheep. I think Pet is a better song from the perspective of the leader.
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Old 10-08-2003, 05:05 PM   #69
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

AH HA HAAAAH,

I must say this is fun. Oh how you pine to be the cynosure of this forum. As I am under the symbol of earth, I am both fueled and cleansed by your coprophagous nature. Go ahead, embouchure my personality's discharge. Your copraphilia is useful to me.

So you prove you can catch my catachesis. It seems to be your habitude to do so. Thank you. Irenic words are what you use to cover your irate, irescible reactions to my words. You ire my words. How funny.

Does my irreligious manner upset you? Go on. Emit your end of this ecolougue.

Careful. TERMINUS A QUEM


Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
This is over now. You still seem to miss the point, rebecca, and no, I dont care if you are female, the whole male-dominated society crap must be something you learned at a women's rights class. And your intelligence has yet to show, which is part of the problem. The issue is not your opinions. I would have far more respect for them if you came to people saying, "This is what I think because..." and not "This is what I think and if you dont think the same way, because I KNOW the ONE and ONLY truth that has been calling ME, then you are a fucking dumbass moron." The former, you will find, works better in the real world. The latter is reserved for people who dont really want to communicate with others, just make a lot of noise. If you respect that other people have truths as well as you, then your opinions will be considered. It took me a while, but at least I understand your jimmy 11:11 theory, after I got past the condescending nature of the posts.
Truth and point of view are the same thing. You try to differentiate between the two, but they are really not separate entities. 50 years from now the truth will be different again, maybe we will learn that Earth is a hologram and we are nothing but bits and bytes. I dont pretend to know what it will be 50 years from now. The truth you feel inside you is one everybody who wants to awaken feels, but it is different for every person. It calls to them in different ways, it lights up different parts of the path, and indeed, it is one that has been inside of us forever. When we realize it, its like we should kick ourself in the teeth for not remembering it sooner.
The cross-references I was talking about was you talking about Maynard's lyrics in Judith. Its a different issue in that song, therefore irresponsible as a listener to think they are talking about the same thing.
You didnt actually say that I deny spirituality, which I am glad for, for certainly I do not. I just tend to express my views in a manner that is respectful of others' opinions. Whether I feel the people I talk to are dumbasses or not doesnt matter, I wont bring that up because guess what? It makes people defensive and then they wont listen to a goddamn thing I say. And if they wont listen, there is no point in talking. It's simple communication skills, perhaps the most basic principle.
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Old 10-08-2003, 05:13 PM   #70
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Fuck you leach, I can speak on my own, I don't need your fucking assistance to describe myself. All you dumb pigfuckers know about me is what I've told you. Speak for your fucking self.

WHAT AM I?
ANIMISTIC ECCLECTIC IRRELIGIONIST ALCHEMIST
FOR THE TIME BEING, FOR NOW


Quote:
Originally Posted by reddish
I knew it.
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Old 10-08-2003, 05:20 PM   #71
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

GET MY NAME RIGHT IF YOUR GOING TO SPELL IT REDDISH
NOT REBBECCA ITS
REBECCA LYN SILVA
RIVKA LLYN SILVANUS IF YOU PIGS CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddish
I knew it.
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Old 10-08-2003, 08:46 PM   #72
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
GET MY NAME RIGHT IF YOUR GOING TO SPELL IT REDDISH
NOT REBBECCA ITS
REBECCA LYN SILVA
RIVKA LLYN SILVANUS IF YOU PIGS CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS

Wow....

.........just...

.....................wow...

Is it really meant to be a revelation that we know nothing about you save what you have told us?
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Old 10-09-2003, 12:23 AM   #73
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebecca22
Fuck you leach, I can speak on my own, I don't need your fucking assistance to describe myself. All you dumb pigfuckers know about me is what I've told you. Speak for your fucking self.

WHAT AM I?
ANIMISTIC ECCLECTIC IRRELIGIONIST ALCHEMIST
FOR THE TIME BEING, FOR NOW
I didn't really mean that stuff. I believe you're a real person. You must have read it when you were angry. If you read the post in a good mood, it's actually quite funny. Sorry if I offended you; I didn't mean to.

Nobody is offended by your irreligious manner. We know the person in the song almost certainly Jesus. Personally I thought the song was about followers, so the leader was irrelevant to me. People got frustrated with you, becuase you were rude and spoke condescendingly.
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Old 10-09-2003, 09:53 AM   #74
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She obviously hasnt read a thing about the way she communicates. Its like beating your head against a brick wall solidly reinforced with lots and lots of mortar. I dont even pretend to care about any of these last three posts. I guess shes just... angry?
Rebecca, I dont care. Do your thing, it will not interfere with mine anymore. If you wont listen, just attack, then conversation is pointless.
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Old 10-09-2003, 09:59 AM   #75
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by rebecca22
Fuck you leach
If you are going to resort to childish name-calling, then at least spell the word right.
L E E C H
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Old 10-09-2003, 10:55 AM   #76
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When I first heard the song I asked who it was about, and my knowledgable Tool friend told me that it was about Bill Hicks, but some of the lyrics keep leading me back to think it simply must be about Jesus. Here are the lyrics and why I think they are about him


i read it was about l ron hubbard. it makes sence. seriously, look into it, l ron hubbard and scientology.
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Old 10-09-2003, 07:42 PM   #77
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinnia
When I first heard the song I asked who it was about, and my knowledgable Tool friend told me that it was about Bill Hicks, but some of the lyrics keep leading me back to think it simply must be about Jesus. Here are the lyrics and why I think they are about him


i read it was about l ron hubbard. it makes sence. seriously, look into it, l ron hubbard and scientology.

I think that makes alot of sense, but again, it can mean alot of things to alot of different people, so...

Jesus, Cobain, Hubbard, mindless fucking hypocritical sheep, and earth worshipping, argumentative bitches/witches(please don't curse me)...it's all good.

This song is about me. It's about me following the wrong path of insecurity, over-thinking, limited and narrow(ignorant) belief, etc, even though I have known the right path intellectually and been shown several times through intuition and revelation where the true path lies. The song , like a few other Tool songs, is about tranforming yourselves into your Higher Selves, independent and truly free in an absolute sense.
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Old 10-10-2003, 10:14 AM   #78
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Thank you, Reed. I vote we lock this thread now.
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Old 10-10-2003, 10:52 AM   #79
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

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Originally Posted by paraflux
Thank you, Reed. I vote we lock this thread now.
Yeah, I agree. There's really not much left to say.
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:57 PM   #80
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Re: Eulogy of Jesus Christ

l disagree with it being about Jesus...l don't see why it is...ANYONE can have a eulogy, or an epitaph. Anyone can be a martyr as well...l'll post a new tread.
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l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
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