[QUOTE=Aezarien;2054720]In my interpretation I took the "Prison" part and incorporate it into the trapped feeling you have when you are enduring any type of abuse, neglect, or harassment. [QUOTE]
i never thought about it that way either. it makes perfect sense though!
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
I think years of bred in deity worshiping and subsequent bible thumping creates that feeling in the "moral" majority. It is the true voice that speaks and tells us to pray when we think we are going to suffer badly or die. For some people believing in a higher power gives them comfort and security. The concept for me only serves to make me feel like I am being fucked with. I can make more of my life believing that this is the last stop and I only have one chance to get it right. I admit I hear that voice occasionally but would give anything to make it go away.
what you said is exactly how i feel about the subject! i know what you mean, i hate organized religion, or at least the organized religion we have today. all these belifs are forced on us and we are looked down upon for thinking another way. no matter how much i'm against it though occasionally theres a voice in my head that says "what if they are right, and i am gonna burn in some hell?"
then i start thinking clearly and remind myself that my life and "afterlife" is what i make it to be. not what a mass religion makes it to be. religion is personal, not shared.
Quote:
Some people are incapable of making moral decisions. In the end however, morals are only defined by what it takes to compromise them and to loosely quote from a conversation Gabe and I recently had, Everything has a price. We may not be able to fathom that price in our current state of perception but it is there. The hope is that we never have to cross that bridge. As far as people defining morals for you, they just need a hobby, or therapy, or a wake up call, or to get over themselves, or a Twizzler (I'll just die if they quit making these things). Either way, if they are focused on you then that is a fine indication that they are avoiding issues of their own and picking on you takes the focus off their own shit. They don't deserve to own you in anger for even a moment.
you are right. i just wish those people would leave me alone. do i bother them with my beliefs? NOOOOO!
oh damn, i just got the best idea.!!!!
next time i see someone that has tried to force their religion on me, or looked down on me, i'm going to make up my own religion and tell them they should belive in it or they are definitley going to my religions hell. i will down on them as they have looked down on me!
hahahahahahahahaha i wonder how someone who has always thought that their beliefs were better and that they need to force it on people will feel when i do exactly that to them. i bet they won't like it, but i doubt they will have the sense to realize they do the same damn thing.
woah, that was a little ranty, sorry
and your right, twizzlers are magical
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
ive grown up in a catholic household, and my mom is a devout catholic, and ive had 17 years of "god" and "jesus" shoved down my throat, and ive come to a realization that the more you force religion upon someone, the more they grow to hate it. ive even gone to catholic schools all my life, which has only fueled my resent. the funny thing is, im a fairly nice person to most people, and ive gotten several "best christian" awards through the years,wich i always thought was ironic. to me it seems these people dont think of good people as just good people, we have to be "good christians" to good people."god" forbid a nice person be something other than christian. i still dont see how as evolved as a race that we are cant let go of silly little beliefs that are there to keep away the fear of death.
to quote lewis black "i have thoughts, and that can really fuck up the faith thing, just ask any catholic priest"
wow, i did a little bit of rant to, religion does that to people
and to clarify, although i grew up catholic, i was never raped by a priest, because i swear to you, had i been raped, they wouldve never found every piece of the body, and i would be sitting in a jail sell with no remorse what so every
nabiliofadilio - I always treat people of faith with the utmost respect and kindness unless they get belligerent with me. It isn't because I agree with them or even that I think they deserve my respect. It is to show them that I don't need their belief system to be a good person. I invite them in for coffee and listen to every word they say and smile. Then I share what I believe and thank them for caring enough to stop by and share some time with me. Believe it or not it really fucks most of them up when you are nice to them. I do think some weird shit while they are talking though I have to admit. "Yeah sure, come on in. I'll set up the risk board. It's a world domination game so you should pick up on it pretty easy being church-goin' folks and all."
Your idea cracks me up though. What would you name your religion and what would be your first commandment?
__________________ You're so vain. I'll bet you think this post is about you. Don't You? Don't You?
and to clarify, although i grew up catholic, i was never raped by a priest
nocoolnames - You guys are so funny! I would have never made that connection but I appreciate the clarification.
My childhood was rather chaotic and we had no real fundamental belief system. Mom always talked about her belief in G*d but we didn't go to church or pray regularly even. Where we live however there is a church within walking distance of almost anywhere you could live. If there is too much mileage between churches they throw up double-wides and turn them into churches. With that type of frequency it is almost impossible for you not to absorb something.
My husband however has not only one but two parents that are Pentecostal ministers. When he was younger he was a youth group leader. When I first met him his attitude toward religion was volatile. If you even mentioned religion that was grounds for verbal abuse. He hated it and didn't want to hear about it.
My kids did a stint in church. They wanted to go and I am a firm believer that you can't make an informed decision if you don't have all of the information. That was short-lived to say the least. We have had rational discussions about how they feel about things they have heard in church but I don't discuss my beliefs with my children. I just don't think they can develop their own intuition if I tell them what they should believe.
__________________ You're so vain. I'll bet you think this post is about you. Don't You? Don't You?
Cheesegreater - Just now sitting down again with this topic lol. I swear I am way to busy to talk as much as I do!
"This self-loathing you speak of though, I must say, sounds a lot like guilt, whether brought on by society or some other way. I would classify self-loathing as a form of guilt. Self-loathing tends to be brought on by actions you feel are unjustifiable. If one feels they've done an unjustifiable wrong action, they'll certainly feel guilty. Also, when someone engages in something terrible that they cannot justify, there is little left to do but hate the self. Am I right?"
Self-loathing can most definitely be brought on by feelings of guilt and that is where my main curiosity is focused. I wonder if those that do hate themselves sympathize with the pain they have caused others or because they can not fit in with society's perception of who they should be. In any case I think torturing oneself through guilt and self-loathing is a popular way to go as is rationalization and self-justification. Then there is self perpetuated amnesia but all any of it amounts to is avoidance.
"Chronic offenders live a tortured life, or at least they should. A lot of them have unimaginable psychological problems."
I agree with you in spirit. It is hard to believe that the majority of them are tortured when groups like NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) exist. I agree with you and please excuse my frankness but grown men who get off on fucking little boys should live a tortured life in my less than humble opinion. I have a 13 year old son and the images it conjures makes me more than unqualified to give an unbiased opinion. That probably has a lot to do with why I choose to interpret the song metaphorically. Interpreting it any other way makes me think of removing someone's eyes with dental tools.
"The way I feel about it is there are monsters, and people with monsters on their backs."
Excellent metaphor and I agree 100%. What do you believe separates the monsters from the one's merely afflicted by the same?
"The ones with monsters on their backs, well whatever ounce of good left in them tortures the self as if to try to kill the monster. Think of serial killers killing themselves. Maybe that one ounce of good in them realized, "Hey, I don't think I can stop. Those were good people. I've got to end this the only way I think I can."
That makes complete sense. I question the motives for suicide but I don't doubt that profound realization has been a motive. I would see this being the case where someone had just "snapped" and when brought back to equilibrium couldn't live with what they did.
Thanks for the response. I like how people are drawing different interpretations and they all make sense to some degree. Angelfire, I read and thoroughly enjoyed your posts, but I think I might disagree with you slightly on the intent of this song. You seem to think that this song is about sweet revenge. I wish it was so, but I get the distinct feeling that this song is about a vicious cycle of psychological scarring.
I agree with everyone who says this is a subject most wish to ignore, and it's easy to put it out of mind. I don't know the statistics, but a lot of people who were sexually abused as a child have a higher likelihood of being a molester. I don't know how it works, or what psychological processes happen that make it 'ok' in their head to do such an act, but the fact is the victim can easily become the victimizer. Personally, I think this is what the song is sharing with us.
I think this is a sympathetic song in some ways. Sympathy for that vicious cycle, not the perpetrator. I think our natural tendency is to steep this song in metaphor, but I think the graphic nature of this song is pretty straight-forward. Look at it as the journey of a molester. What led him to becoming what he is now, a monster, right? Well, I perceive this song as showing the human side of a 'monster' that most wouldn't care to know. I other words, we want to label these people, and just think of them these horrible, sick monsters, when in reality there is a story behind all of it that explains their actions. Keep in mind I said 'explains' their actions, not 'justifies' them.
I think the main goal of a song like this is just what we're seeing on this forum. Get people talking about these things. They're still there no matter how hard you try to ignore them.
I think the main goal of a song like this is just what we're seeing on this forum. Get people talking about these things. They're still there no matter how hard you try to ignore them.
woah, i just drew a connection through the tool albums (opiate and salival excluded). in each album, theres a song that, to me at least, is dragging a fault of our societies way of life, and how we kind of sweep things under the rug.
1. prison sex- child abuse,molestation, other forms of domestic abuse.
2 stinkfist- a growing need for more to feel, every sensation is getting old, so we must dig deeper
3 the grudge-(a tentative link)how we embrace revenge, and stereotypes
4 vicariuos- our addiction to violence and the idiot box
this was kind of a sudden revalation, and these are just my views on the songs, but to me tool is trying to get us to discuss these elephants in the living room.
nabiliofadilio - I always treat people of faith with the utmost respect and kindness unless they get belligerent with me. It isn't because I agree with them or even that I think they deserve my respect. It is to show them that I don't need their belief system to be a good person. I invite them in for coffee and listen to every word they say and smile. Then I share what I believe and thank them for caring enough to stop by and share some time with me. Believe it or not it really fucks most of them up when you are nice to them. I do think some weird shit while they are talking though I have to admit. "Yeah sure, come on in. I'll set up the risk board. It's a world domination game so you should pick up on it pretty easy being church-goin' folks and all."
Your idea cracks me up though. What would you name your religion and what would be your first commandment?
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha RISK..... hahahaha damn that was hilarious!
i don't have the patience for listening to them babble on about jesus and such, i don't know how you do it.
The religion shall be named "Toolothic" named so by our great god "Maynardeth".
Maynard's three sons, "Adameth", "Dannyeth", and "Justineth were sent to earth.
But soon a terrible evil came to earth, that evils name was "Freddursteth".
But Adameth, Dannyeth, and justineth were left with the problem to rid the earth of Fredursteth, his "singing" and "rapping" were causing deafness thriughout the land! what could they do?
Thats when Maynardeth bestowed his three sons with the power to play instruments like gods! They formed a band, a band that could rid the world of any evil, make people think, and most important of all, give people the power to think for themselves and say "hey, i shant listen to freddursteth's crap no longer!"
it was this freedom of choice that made this band save the world, and send freddurseth where he belonged. in the fiery underground known as "Shitmusicland"
The bands name was Tool, and non listeners will be destined to end up in Shitmusicland for all of the afterlife.
FIRST COMMANDMENT: Thought Shall not listen to shit.
SECOND COMMANDMENT: Thought shall thinketh for themselveseth.
hee hee hee sounds like a good religion to me. i will make it my duty to shove it down the throats of people of done the same to me!
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
woah, i just drew a connection through the tool albums (opiate and salival excluded). in each album, theres a song that, to me at least, is dragging a fault of our societies way of life, and how we kind of sweep things under the rug.
1. prison sex- child abuse,molestation, other forms of domestic abuse.
2 stinkfist- a growing need for more to feel, every sensation is getting old, so we must dig deeper
3 the grudge-(a tentative link)how we embrace revenge, and stereotypes
4 vicariuos- our addiction to violence and the idiot box
this was kind of a sudden revalation, and these are just my views on the songs, but to me tool is trying to get us to discuss these elephants in the living room.
and thus we are :)
your right!
opiate is definitley one too!
i don't know about salival though....
your avatar is crazy!
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
ive grown up in a catholic household, and my mom is a devout catholic, and ive had 17 years of "god" and "jesus" shoved down my throat, and ive come to a realization that the more you force religion upon someone, the more they grow to hate it. ive even gone to catholic schools all my life, which has only fueled my resent. the funny thing is, im a fairly nice person to most people, and ive gotten several "best christian" awards through the years,wich i always thought was ironic. to me it seems these people dont think of good people as just good people, we have to be "good christians" to good people."god" forbid a nice person be something other than christian. i still dont see how as evolved as a race that we are cant let go of silly little beliefs that are there to keep away the fear of death.
to quote lewis black "i have thoughts, and that can really fuck up the faith thing, just ask any catholic priest"
wow, i did a little bit of rant to, religion does that to people
and to clarify, although i grew up catholic, i was never raped by a priest, because i swear to you, had i been raped, they wouldve never found every piece of the body, and i would be sitting in a jail sell with no remorse what so every
thats a bummer... your right though, it seems some people don't recognize good people unless they are good CHRISTIAN people. and it seems they always have a sense of smugness that they will live and we will burn in hell... well some people are like that.
religion does tend to make people rant!
haha good quote too
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
"The way I feel about it is there are monsters, and people with monsters on their backs."
Excellent metaphor and I agree 100%. What do you believe separates the monsters from the one's merely afflicted by the same?
thought about this for a while and this is what i think.
i think we all have monsters on our backs, but the size of said monster varies, based on our pasts and the way we live. i think you can hear the "monster" whispering to you every time you are angery with someone, its whispering to you to lash out, or when someone wrongs you, it tells you to seek revenge. to me the monster is anger, hate, fear and guilt, all roled into one entity, and a person with a moster on their back, no matter how large, you can still subdue the beast, but a monster(person) is someone that has let the monster grow to large, and that persons anger, hatred, fear, and guilt have consumed them, and they are living in their own personal hell.
so, taking all this to mind, the song could be about venting this pent up monster that has been fed to a great extent by a hurtful past, before the monster swallows whats left of the person inside, and kind of sick revalation in the fact that the act that damaged you so much, is the only way to keep the monster chained.
..... I get the distinct feeling that this song is about a vicious cycle of psychological scarring.
I agree and to a degree I think that is what the majority of the interpretations lead to. Metaphorically speaking, I like to think of it as Newton's third law translated into something that could be applied to human behavior. When we experience an event that creates intense emotions within us we tend to deal with it starting one of two ways. We will either embrace the concepts that lead up to the event or we will reject them. There are many shades in between including acceptance but that requires understanding what happened to you and most people would rather avoid confronting what it takes to reach understanding. Justification and avoidance are much easier to accomplish.
Relating back to the statement however, our perceptions will alway mold our worldly views as long as we are unable to see past the first level of our intellect and emotions. We feel empathy for those who have suffered worse than us and we wonder what people who have suffered less have to complain about. That has to do partially with ignorance of how the mind works and partially with our tendency to over-complicate things. The reality is that the actual events are nothing but red-herring information in determining what someone feels. The worst day of my life is subject to change but the worst day of my life will always feel like the worst day of my life. And when I accept that although my event was different my feelings are not unique, that is when real connection with life and other human beings can begin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater
... I don't know how it works, or what psychological processes happen that make it 'ok' in their head to do such an act, but the fact is the victim can easily become the victimizer.
I don't know much about this either but I do wonder if it has to do with how abusers can be excellent manipulators as well. You often hear how victims blame themselves or have been convinced that it was their own idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater
....I perceive this song as showing the human side of a 'monster' that most wouldn't care to know. I other words, we want to label these people, and just think of them these horrible, sick monsters, when in reality there is a story behind all of it that explains their actions.
Most people's reactions necessitate keeping these people at arms length in order to deal with them appropriately. As long as they are seen as monsters then it is easier to lock them away from the rest of the world and keep society safe. When they become human we are forced to deal with their crimes which goes back to the avoidance issue that you and a few others have mentioned in this thread. I also think that society needs "monsters" not only to feel more in control of themselves but to wager more control over society itself. We can justify our "less wrong" behavior by saying, "well at least I don't.....". And we can keep people from doing what we don't want them to do not only by using the existing "monsters" but by creating monsters through things such as Urban Legends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater
Keep in mind I said 'explains' their actions, not 'justifies' them.
Exactly. I think it is hard for the average human being to wrap their head around this concept. We can understand people without agreeing with what they have done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegreater
I think the main goal of a song like this is just what we're seeing on this forum. Get people talking about these things. They're still there no matter how hard you try to ignore them.
I don't propose to know what any of the song meanings are or their purpose but I have enjoyed having this discussion immensely. It has been a long time since I have been able to engage in conversation about such a sensitive subject where everyone remained decent and actually talked about it without getting their knickers in a bunch. And you are right, these things are commonly ignored which leaves them in a state of limbo. They are dealt with but with what amount of efficiency can't be said. I think it takes this type of open-minded conversing to come up with rational solutions.
On a lighter note, wouldn't it be wild if it was a metaphor and was so convoluted that it actually didn't have anything to do with people at all?
__________________ You're so vain. I'll bet you think this post is about you. Don't You? Don't You?
...... but to me tool is trying to get us to discuss these elephants in the living room. and thus we are :)
This is what I think my main draw is. The music, not just the lyrics, is dimensional and requires a little thought to fully appreciate. It inspires thought and conversation and when you wrap all of that up you have art in its truest form.
I don't know about you but personally I love elephants. ;)
__________________ You're so vain. I'll bet you think this post is about you. Don't You? Don't You?
Yeah, I know.. I'm kind of old lol. Does anyone still play this game?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabiliofadilio
i don't have the patience for listening to them babble on about jesus and such, i don't know how you do it.
I do have to admit that I am partially empathetic. After all someone like them is the reason they are the way they are today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabiliofadilio
The religion shall be named "Toolothic" named so by our great god "Maynardeth".
Maynard's three sons, "Adameth", "Dannyeth", and "Justineth were sent to earth.
But soon a terrible evil came to earth, that evils name was "Freddursteth".
But Adameth, Dannyeth, and justineth were left with the problem to rid the earth of Fredursteth, his "singing" and "rapping" were causing deafness thriughout the land! what could they do?
Thats when Maynardeth bestowed his three sons with the power to play instruments like gods! They formed a band, a band that could rid the world of any evil, make people think, and most important of all, give people the power to think for themselves and say "hey, i shant listen to freddursteth's crap no longer!"
it was this freedom of choice that made this band save the world, and send freddurseth where he belonged. in the fiery underground known as "Shitmusicland"
The bands name was Tool, and non listeners will be destined to end up in Shitmusicland for all of the afterlife.
FIRST COMMANDMENT: Thought Shall not listen to shit.
SECOND COMMANDMENT: Thought shall thinketh for themselveseth.
OMG! That was great! Ironically enough we were just talking about Fred Durst yesterday. We were listening to Outside Live by Staind and I get pissed every time I hear that song and Durst opens his big mouth talking about "This is the real muthafuckin deal y'all". In my opinion, his attempt to be cool puts a blight on what is otherwise a good song. He was born and raised in the city we just moved from and went to two of the worst schools in the city. My son went to the same Jr. high for less than a year before I pulled him out to home-school him. Gastonia is a shit hole for lack of a better description. I do give him credit for not lying about where he is from like some other bands I know. There is a real famous band out there that made beginnings in Monroe NC but claims they started somewhere else. Anyway... I completely see the Gastonian in him. A special sort of people are hatched in that region of NC.
__________________ You're so vain. I'll bet you think this post is about you. Don't You? Don't You?
Yeah, I know.. I'm kind of old lol. Does anyone still play this game?.
RISK is awesome! i'm not laughing at risk in general, your joke about world domination and all was genius! hahah i'm still laughing at it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aezarien
OMG! That was great! Ironically enough we were just talking about Fred Durst yesterday. We were listening to Outside Live by Staind and I get pissed every time I hear that song and Durst opens his big mouth talking about "This is the real muthafuckin deal y'all". In my opinion, his attempt to be cool puts a blight on what is otherwise a good song. He was born and raised in the city we just moved from and went to two of the worst schools in the city. My son went to the same Jr. high for less than a year before I pulled him out to home-school him. Gastonia is a shit hole for lack of a better description. I do give him credit for not lying about where he is from like some other bands I know. There is a real famous band out there that made beginnings in Monroe NC but claims they started somewhere else. Anyway... I completely see the Gastonian in him. A special sort of people are hatched in that region of NC.
yeah! fred is a douche! you know what KILLED me? when at a limp bizcit show, fred decided to do a cover song. OF OPIATE!!!!!!!!! i watched the whole thing then i threw up!
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
thought about this for a while and this is what i think.
i think we all have monsters on our backs, but the size of said monster varies, based on our pasts and the way we live. i think you can hear the "monster" whispering to you every time you are angery with someone, its whispering to you to lash out, or when someone wrongs you, it tells you to seek revenge. to me the monster is anger, hate, fear and guilt, all roled into one entity, and a person with a moster on their back, no matter how large, you can still subdue the beast, but a monster(person) is someone that has let the monster grow to large, and that persons anger, hatred, fear, and guilt have consumed them, and they are living in their own personal hell.
so, taking all this to mind, the song could be about venting this pent up monster that has been fed to a great extent by a hurtful past, before the monster swallows whats left of the person inside, and kind of sick revalation in the fact that the act that damaged you so much, is the only way to keep the monster chained.
that is a good way to put it. a GREAT way actually.
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
To SUM Up Prison Sex is just what it sounds like, whoever feels it deep inside can clearly understand what this song is about. This is a tru rock monsterpeice, its so sad the guys perform it live so rarely.
__________________ It is during this fragile period where most CONTRACT a mental illness
you are welcome my childeth. it is your duty also, not only mine to spread the word!
and you must listen to tool everyday or mayanardeth will smite you. no joke.
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
hahahaha
as much as i like being worshipped.... there is no need! for you two have seen the light, and for that you shall recieve the power of immortality, unimaginable coolness, and uhhh a one way ticket straight to maynardeth's palace!
see, now if i spread the word on this religion outside the internet, i wonder if everyone else would be this loyal? hmmmmm....
__________________ If a man says something in a forest and no woman is around to hear it, is it still wrong?
Last edited by nabiliofadilio; 07-20-2007 at 09:27 AM..
