So i'm supposed to write something positive....ok here we go..
Tool has obviously started (or should I say added onto) something very important and very powerful. Judging by the passion and depth that alot of these opinions are going into, people are getting it. I think there was a book written a long while ago called "The Cosmic Trigger" that explained what needs to happen in order for our entire species to be moved up a dimensional level. Well what we all need to recognize is that whenever you get that FEELING, that indescribable experience whether it be from meditation, psychoactives, listening to Tool, or just being alive, you are aiding us in our jump from the 3rd dimension into the 4th. What you need to do is remember that feeling that you had, and build off of it. I know everyone has encountered this situation: your sitting in a comfortable position listening to music or creating something, and wham... it just hits you...the secret behind life,satori, what mystics and shamen are devoting their lives to, whatever you want to call it, that thing that hit you is what you have to build from. So many people, including myself, figure this...If i achieved this state from listening to music, then i should start the cycle again and create more music for people to achieve this state. I'm not really sure if this is the answer or not. I'm young(18 years old) I started listening to this music when i was about 12 years old in 1996. I was a stupid punk that was infatuated with heavy music and weird things. Well I'm glad to say that I have held on to alot of my child-like essence in order to keep that sense of innocence and happiness that everyone has as a child. I've let go of the nievete I had as a child and I am seeing a bigger picture everyday. I'm in a band, Distorted Perception http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~pgreiner/index2 and I figure that this is my contribution to the cause. The cause being to do whatever is nessesary in order to re-create the cycle. But what about the people without musical ability?? What about the people just going by day to day working a boring job, that ahieve the enlightened state on their own time?? What is their contribution to making sure that their environment is a place where other's around them can see what they can see? I think this question can be answered by a quote from Nelson Mandela that can be found in Alex Grey's book..Transfigurations...
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. You playing small doesn't serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
UNCONSCIOUSLY..... the person that has no other means of creating enlightenment for others can do it and does do it unconsciously. You know you can tell when others are up to your mental level. It is an unspoken thing that just is. After you realize all of this. After you know why you behave the way you do and what you can do to help the rest of the world see with your eyes, you can't let go of it. Lets take a relevant example that everyone can relate to.
The legalization of psychoactive chemicals... In the sixties, the shit was hitting the fan. They had the war, civil rights, and a hell of a lot of drugs. What happened to the spirit that was captured during that time period? There were so many people that were beginning to accept the fact that there are no good or bad drugs, drugs are what we make of them. This movement probably materialized and became (for the lack of a better word) plastic. There were and still are people that moved through and saw through the material elements of the open movement and are still doing what they can to spread the ideas that were spawned during that time period. I'm sure the government's laws had a lot to do with the ceasing of progress in that movement, but look at how things are today.... Pot is illegal....but we disregard the laws, LSD and Psylosybin are illegal, but we disregard the laws. If the amount of people that disregard these laws turns out to be the majority, than the laws themselves are going to diminish and we will have made some progress. If there were 1000 people out on the street hitting hookahs, I truley doubt that the local authorities could do anything about it. This would also help open up the eyes of other law abiding citizens to the fact that Laws are only as powerful as you want them to be. I live in and have seen lawless situations, where, in a world with so many regulations and rules, people will get together and break and disregard as many of them as possible. This is the act of being free, and you should exercise it. I'm not telling you to go out and kill,rape,loot, just do WHATEVER YOU WANT TO. If you are on the path that I know you are on, everything you do will be in the essence of progress. Progress for yourself, Progress for your race, and Progress for your environment. So we all know that the free spirit of the sixties and of free life and love, has diminished to the point where it's hard to find another soul that you feel has the same viewpoints as you do? THAT IS WHERE WE ARE WRONG. Our souls are on a long road where very small steps are used. You can't recognize the change we are undergoing because you are inside of it. We have to be the change that we wish to see. Only then will we be doing our part for the countless lives ahead of us.
So if you are lost by now, which you probably are because i'm just ranting for ranting's sake, all I am saying is that we need to keep going. You and I are no different than the members of this band. We are all a part of this effort to envoke the "Cosmic Trigger" and we are doing a great job in doing so.
Your comments are welcome.
You have the right to be enlightened and to create your own reality in any which way you choose, so please do so.Live and Love Life.
__________________ He woke with a sharp wonder about how everything had come to this. When dreams started fading it all started to make sense, and nothing he did could stop the flow of knowledge that he was obtaining. He always wondered why everytime he laid to rest, he would wish that when he awoke, nothing would be the same, and he could be in a different, better place. What he did not realize untill this morning was that everytime he awoke, he WAS in a different place. He could make his day anykind of day that he wanted to, and in choice, he could move forward.
One of the members in Tool said, i think it was Justin in the text in the start of the opinion section, that he wanted their music to be the catalytic energy converter or a trigger for people to use in their own lifes and he also said:
" ..it makes you spiteful, but also makes you more belligernt in your convictions."
And this is the way I think one can get most out of their music, this is what I think separates good from less good music. Jimmy Hendrix ones said that he thought music in the future would be more like "purpose" or "direction" for people and I think it is today for many.
you hold an interesting view on "lawlessness". i think in the ideal world, law would not be necessary because the people living would constrain themselves and certainly wouldn't mar the existence of fellow lives. law exists to hedge in the crowd that WOULD go wild, killing, looting, and generally putting dark spots on the souls of others. maybe it's infectious, or maybe the hatred one might develop from victimization has the propensity to breed in the spirit, but something (bad?) happens. therefore, in order to appreciate our freedom to seek enlightenment, we should embrace the law and be thankful that it exists to deter would be wildmen from a path that ruins us. and when the law intervenes with a perceived path to understanding, first try to find a way around, and only if there is no other way should we cut our way through. and drugs are not necessarily catalysts to understanding; they can even be the lie that leads us into oblivion.
[quote]"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. You playing small doesn't serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the
Quote:
glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
-Nelson Mandela
I don't know about this one. I always thought that my greatest fear was to do evil, not to do good. Some of the stuff I can relate to, the manifestation of the glory of god within us, and how we can bring out the best in others by doing our best. I just don't want to believe that we are afraid of success, that we are afraid of what we can do. I can see myself diminish that light around people, so I can see how this can be true. It is also hard to imagine a world where everyone let their light shine. One where everyone could be themselves without fear. We fear judgement, we fear ourselves, what would the world be without fear? We are all children of God and we can all aspire to such glory, but we don't. Why?
I think Paul is onto something, and I'd like to take that and run with it.
There is an absence of positivity in the mainstream. Look at our news, it's absolute horror being out in the world because of all the "shit" happening. I think Paul took a brazen step in advocating more positive connections with your own selves, and ascending to a higher plane of consciousness. I'm just glad to see someone else with a very inspirational view on life, and how we are the masters of our own universe. As much as people are different, I'd really like to advocate unity within those differences. "Be different like everyone else" type of thought process, where we all understand that each individual comes from their own background and their own ways of living, and become part of an enchanted collective that thrives off of positivity (yeah, sounds really hippie, I know, but...). This is how that "war" shit gets eradicated. Not by threats, but by the absence of the necessity of threat. Before Hussein there was Russia, before Russia, there was Hitler, before Hitler, it was stockbrokers... nationalism will always be around if we have an enemy to rally against. Why not rally for something, rather than against some enemy?
For all intents and purposes, I know that we'll never see society shift that dramatically because there are still people out there that feed off of the weakness of others. I just wanted to state a few thoughts to encourage the positive direction that Paul brought up.
Our greatest fear. My greatest fear. It's not that I think I may be powerful beyond measure. It's that I know I am. I've felt forces moving through me that might be defined as magic. I've felt my feet lifting off from the earth in a nighttime rainstorm. I was liberated but I was scared. Not for me. Not that my flight would end and I would fall to the earth. I knew I wouldn't. It was a fear for the minds of whoever might see me. How could a mind comprehend something so impossible? How could they not just break?
It seems to me that by and large Tool's songs are about what we could be but are not. And it seems to me that we are not by our own choices. We treasure our freedom but are bound by our understanding of ourselves as merely physical beings. But belief is based on choice. We want ourselves to be seen a certain way, even by ourselves. We want to be 'normal' and fit in. We need the acceptance and approval of the people around us. We choose to be accepted rather than be what we really feel we are. Years ago I cast off violence as meaningless and unworthy. I have since thought that it may not be. For the most part it is completely senseless. But what about evolution? Growth? Pain has always been a catalyst, and what more violent catalyst than war? War where the people who love pain and violence and power can murder eachother by the thousands. This is not to say that war is good or right. The view I'm trying to express is that it may be a necessary evil. Every other species has a natural balance. Only humans reproduce unchecked. With nothing to 'cull the herd' all the violent and weak are left to spoil the world. So we take advantage of the Sacred Mother Earth and pollute her for our own gain. For the foolish goal of wealth. Completely meaningless. Money is an idea, nothing more. It's an idea that's become an institution by which the few can hold the many under their thumb. I think it's the time for money to be cast aside. It Only hurts us. It's time for us to rediscover love. Not our everyday 'love' that gives us the little comfort most people feel being in love. I'm talking about the kind of love that doesn't care about male or female. I'm talking about the kind of love that makes us not want to see anybody hurt, because we know that they don't deserve to be hurt, because we want them to know we love them and be the absolute best human being they can be. We need to stop seeing the other gender as weak and stupid(this goes for you too, ladies). This means letting go of selfishness and greed. This means letting go of the words 'impossible' and 'self'. We need to discover that we are not truly alone as we all imagine, but part of something that goes far beyond species, individual, and any kind of duality. We are a part of God still, not God's children. We never left God. He never set us aside. If God took it's love or attention away from us, the whole thing would simply stop 'being'. Realize that deja vu or glimpsing a pure thought or feeling from another person is simply a brief connection with the mind of God. God knows all, remember. And if you know how to let go of yourself, sometimes you can get in touch with that.
My greatest fear. It's not that I'm all powerful. I'm still a part of God. I know I'm all powerful. My fear is that if I let myself have all that power, it will corrupt me. That it will distance me from my love for all of you, and immerse me in the opposite side of it. Utter despite for all of you. And I really don't want to be an all powerful despiser of all that is. I love you too much.
yours is a mindset the world will never share :( admirable though it is, one might wonder at its practicality. one might, but i don't... i think practicality is overrated, it is a human concept of what 'should' be obvious based on what has been drilled into our mass-produced (or so the plan was) heads. it's those of us who have factory errors or even different brands (the rare ones are quite valuable) who will be either despised or loved. but that's only when celebrity is pursued or otherwise achieved. we are the few, the proud, but not the marines. we are the muse, and it is our task to think as far outside the box as we may. and when boundaries confine us, we must clear our minds and transcend, for only then can we reach enlightenment.
How can you really follow such a wonderful post...I think about how I would add to the message and yet I find myself only re iterating the same ideas.
Because I can not think of a way to add to this I will instead ask a question that may spark further debate. Are we all, everyone, meant to grasp this idea and in fact capable of doing so? If not then how can we hope to transend at all, we cannot realize we are all one divinity if there are still parts that do not grasp this idea? Does God have phantom pains from those that do not understand?
I think you are all onto something. As far as I can tell, there is no greater gift than life, be you a man or an insect. We are all living, breathing iterations of a force so tremendously powerful that many do not know how to react to this force. My feet have lifted from the ground, too, only I was running as fast as I could.
As conscious, sentient beings, we humans have stumbled upon the knowledge that we are indeed a part of god, but we must remember that we are not the only part thereof. All life, all death, all things are encompassed by the vastness of this god, this universe, this cosmic force, or whatever you want to call it. There is value to negativity, however, as it serves as a balance to the positive. Without evil, there is no good and vice versa. The goal, then, at least for myself is harmony with the world around me. When I am in this state of accordance, I am free. It's like tuning a guitar. One string struggling, fighting against the other strings, even though they are all a part of the same mechanism. When the string is tuned, the sounds amplify each other and they can coexist and build from one another. We all get out of tune sometimes and one of my goals is to find ways to retune myself.
I practice conscious breathing, I pray, I write, I skateboard. Oddly, it seems that when I am thinking consciously the least, I become infinitely more conscious of my part in the cosmos and all the more appreciative of it. Even writing, I am not often thinking consciously; more attempting to free my thoughts. In eastern languages, one does not strike a bell. One allows it to sound. The sound and the potential for the sound are intrinsic in the bell and are only waiting for something to allow it to sound. Thich Nhat Hahn, a Thai Buddhist monk, teaches this and it makes sense to me.
This relates to the earlier point that we are all infinitely powerful. This thought, just as our lives are infininite, is true if one examines the root of the word infinite. "Not finite," Without discernible, definite end. I can't ascertain when my life will end, just as I cannot know when my, or anyone's, human power ends. The fear of my own power is surely paralyzing in most cases, but when it isn't, it's beautiful.
There seems to be much discussion in this thread about fear. And rightly so, because it is limiting. I see these boards not as a place to dissect the songs (I do it in my spare time) but as a place to find like-minded people and discuss Tool's themes and how they apply to their own lives. As far as Tool's music is concerned... it is perhaps a collection of anthems that herald the changes that we undoubtedly must make in order to see a brighter day for ourselves.
In saying that however, I'm going to immediately contradict myself (I do it a lot :D) and quote Maynard thus:
"People can be book-smart, but not really intelligent about anything else. A lot of times they just take in all this information and regurgitate it. It's much more important to process it and personalize it. To apply it to your world, to your life. You have to walk the walk, or you can't really report about it honestly."
"You have to do the personal work and exploring if you want to grow. Jung used to talk about staring into that shadow in the corner. Just stepping into that shadow and going "okay, what is it that I fear the most? What is it that freezes me up like a doe in the headlights?" And then go and do that and see what happens. The worst thing that'll happen is you'll die."
-Maynard
See my shadow changing
Stretching up and over me
Soften this old armour
Hoping I can clear the way by stepping through my shadow
And coming out the other side
Step into the shadow;
Forty-six and two is just ahead of me.
-Tool
And those three quotes say it all, really. Little more than fancy and evocative ways of saying "face your fears" but that's all they need to say - most inspirational quotes are merely reflections of ancient wisdom re-written so it strikes a chord within - something that you can identify with.
Self-acceptance brings strength, and slowly but surely it erodes fear, first of yourself as you begin to nullify the inner demons and then of others. Your path towards that really doesn't matter. I have heard of Christians that have side-stepped the shackles of organised religion and through Christ have found acceptance within themselves. It is the dogma of religion that is crippling, not the ideas themselves.
For myself, I have much to learn as well. I'm 17, and have little working knowledge of the occult. I know the basics of Jung, and even less of Gurdjieff, but having said that, I am aware of what I need to do. (And I'm aware that Jung and Gurdjieff aren't the occult either.) I recall reading in another thread about the Euphoria (Albums -> Ænima -> H. -> Euphoric Feeling... sorry, I don't know how to post precise links on this website) that one can attain through Meditation, or listening to inspirational music etc etc, and in response someone said that it's the beginning of our evolution. Perhaps it is.
Perhaps it doesn't matter...
It is a beautiful thing.
__________________
So they built as men must build
With the sword in one hand and the trowel in the other.
T.S. Eliot.
Last edited by Thrakandor; 12-14-2002 at 03:17 AM..
Originally posted by ShackledEidolon Does God have phantom pains from those that do not understand?
i would say yes. i think that god suffers phantom pains from all that is negative (including fear and ignorance), and that these pains take the form of the evils that we witness all over the world.
Kahlil Gibran puts it better than i ever could in his book 'the prophet' (highly recommended by me) he doesnt say this exactly but his words spurred on my thought on this subject.
my idea is that all the evil in the world will not be purged until the collective mind is free from it.
in more personal terms this means we all have to face our demons/fears and purify ourselves for the greater good, so that they cannot manifest themselves in the 'real' world.
i hope i have made some sense to someone
my idea is that all the evil in the world will not be purged until the collective mind is free from it.
lots of love
nina
do you think this is possible? don't you ever have impulses or thoughts that others might consider evil? maybe that's the problem... evil is as much a concept as is good. al quaeda terrorists are heroes in the minds of some people, but americans generally think they're evil.
i've personally fought with my own evil nature when i was in times of great stress. i've sincerely wanted to kill and destroy the lives of others, just to extrovert the angst i felt. i'm not just talking about something as mild as angry teenager syndrome, either; i never was one of those. but my point is that it's inborn. it's genetic. maybe that's what 46 & 2 is... overcoming genetic evil.
not a lot of time has passed since i almost did something that would've made news, but i feel i've conquered that. i've been inspired so much by tool that i just have to think about them to overcome any welling of my negativity. it's worked so far because i've really analyzed the words and found meaning that i could apply to my own life. evil will never be expunged from the world, but if we concentrate first on ourselves and then on those we love, we may avert some of it.
"do you think this is possible? don't you ever have impulses or thoughts that others might consider evil? maybe that's the problem... evil is as much a concept as is good. al quaeda terrorists are heroes in the minds of some people, but americans generally think they're evil. "
if i start believing it is impossible it is all the more likely not to happen.
to be completely honest i do not believe in good and evil, they are just human concepts relating to human things and they are just words i used to communicate my idea. they are useful in classifying things which i think we could use less of. using your example of the terrorists-i do not think that these people are evil, i think they have a point to make but are going about it in such a way that causes others unneccesary harm. everything has some sort of cause and i think it starts off with a mere thought. i don't claim to know much about anything and i am still very young (only 20) so my ideas are still underdeveloped so i understand completely that there are lots of holes.
yes i have thoughts and impulses that could be considered evil, but i am learning to control my thoughts more and more through meditation and other thought focusing exercises.
i think that other people can do the same, and if enough people learn how to control their thoughts there will be a change. i have witnessed a change in my life since i have 'cleared out the attic'. people behave differently to me (mostly positive), i notice synchronistic events more often, i seem to be on a lucky streak and even animals are more friendly towards me. of course this could just be others reacting to a body language change and my brain making sense out of nothingness but even if it is, i prefer it this way.
hey, good for you. since everyone's reality is unique, evil and good are anything but definate. they are as conceptual as truth, which is rarely something that's absolute. the best we can do as individuals is strive for our individual perfection. i don't know if perfection is possible because i've never witnessed it in a person, but if it is, i believe it comes in the mastering of the mind. forget what you've been told about life and witness it for yourself. let your mind discover what it is to be alive, and don't let yourself despise those who are spoonfed experience.
hmm... think i just went on a tangent. i'll have to read this later and make sure i'm not fooling myself.
I used to have many conversations with my ex-girlfriend about her train of thought and how she was always seeing the negative side of things. She wasn't really intellectual as she was emotional, so the negative aspect of every situation would come screaming out at her. Although I'm usually quite cynical, I'm also an optimist (which answers the question of why I was with her for so long), and I believe good (even great) things will happen if you believe that they will. I mean, it's all a matter of perception to me. I can either be bogged down by how bad a situation is, or tweak the situation and make it work so that I enjoy it a whole lot more. I would try to get her (in the words of Paul who started the thread), to let her light shine, by helping her to see that not everything was so bad if she were to put a little effort into trying to make things right again.
She was unbalanced though. Her thought process wouldn't allow for a balance of things she liked and things she didn't like. For example, she needed to save money, but every paycheck she got, she would buy something stupid with it, and squander it and have to sacrifice a few meals throughout the week to wait for the next check. She didn't help herself, thus she put herself in the same negative position.
So, I believe in positivity. I really do, but I also believe in the effort necessary to pull OUT of that funk that one can find themselves in. It'd be like washing your face to stick your head back in the mud. I know this because I used to be like my ex. Once that I realized that I could run on the positivity, rather than let it drift off was a complete revelation to me that changed me for the better.
I'm not sure if my message was incomplete. Probably is. I haven't been getting m uch sleep lately.
It seems to me that by and large Tool's songs are about what we could be but are not.
Reverend Jacob I totally agree. That is a very intelligent what you said. I've always thought that, I'm glad to know there's people in here who think the same. CHEERS
