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Old 07-03-2006, 03:24 PM   #41
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iota
actually my approval was based on everything BUT Rod Stewart!
Yes - I imagined this was the case!

I can send you a link if you want to hear them yourself.
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Old 07-03-2006, 10:43 PM   #42
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmeny
Spook mentioned that Tool still have their edge because the music is 'much' more complex than ever. In my opinion, the songs are much more combersome (which is a criticism people who weren't Tool fans had of Lateralus) and while their are FLASHES of greater complexity, it's not all together more complex. Rosetta Stoned has that riff a 7mins that everyone talks about, but it's only for 1 minute.
Mr. Cricket,

If you would please read the rest of my posts, after the single word quote above, I was merely fishing for what our thread starter considered an 'edge'. With these "flashes of music of greater complexity", it is my opinion , that these flashes make the album. By "music", I'll center on Danny, and tweak my previous opinion and rephrase... Rhythmically, this is their/his most complex album. And if it's b/c of one minute in Rosetta, than F' it, that one minute made the album for me, imho.
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:04 PM   #43
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00k
Great review man. Was a soph in highschool when I 1st heard Opiate and haven't turned back since. I as well will have to disagree, with the above statement. This album by far their most musically complex and I don't see how it's possible to say the edge is missing. Rosetta is f'n insane and is continuing to move its way up to my favorite of all time. Danny has made this album what it is. I'm not sure what edge you think it's lacking, but it's there for me.
I often hear people mentioning that this is Tool's most musically complex album to date. Musically speaking, other than rhythms Tool has never been complex, their melodies and harmonies are both pretty thin. I just wonder what people mean by musically complex. If you listen to 10000 days (Wings pt 2) the same bass line is playing pretty much throughout. Lots of unison parts, but rare harmony. As well, I think there is only two or three chord changes throughout (the album), and pretty much everything else is a vamp on D minor. This might not mean anything to those who know nothing about music theory, but to explain it in laymans terms, they feel like one trick ponies. I understand they don't really study music, well we know Adam doesn't, so they have to experiment in other ways, but I feel like I outgrew the whole "Oooo thats trippy the solo in the Pot sounds like a boiling tea kettle!" thing.

The thing about Tool and myself is that when I started listening it was to Lateralus. At the time I was very much in my phase of self discovery (that I don't know if I'll ever truly leave) at the age of 18, and was learning about all the philosophical topics through my own experience. They were like a mirror of sorts, which is something many people mention. Now it seems they went off and did their own thing, which I respect, but they didn't grow with me, as I guess I wanted/expected. Leave it to Tool to be elusive, I suppose.

Very much because of Tool I have been studying music and have been turned on to much more "complex" music as a result (Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd had alot more going on than these guys, and try some Steely Dan, or Alan Parsons if you want to hear complexity). I don't intend to sound pretentious, but they don't give me what I'm looking for anymore. Maynard's vocals are pretty much the only thing I enjoy because he tried some different things with them, but other than that, I just find this album doesn't really go anywhere, and doesn't get to the point. I thought all of their other albums did this pretty well, and most of their other songs did also. Whatever they intended, I'm not sure, but I just feel this album didn't do anything for me. Thats how I see it anyway.
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:12 PM   #44
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmeny
You said this album lacks an edge, but still gave it 9/10, and the first person disagrees with you. That's abit silly.

Spook mentioned that Tool still have their edge because the music is 'much' more complex than ever. In my opinion, the songs are much more combersome (which is a criticism people who weren't Tool fans had of Lateralus) and while their are FLASHES of greater complexity, it's not all together more complex. Rosetta Stoned has that riff a 7mins that everyone talks about, but it's only for 1 minute.

I'm not sure where I fit in with your ideas about youth Gargantuan. I'm 21. Not a teenager, but I assume young enough to fit into that demographic within your ideas? I was introduced to Tool a few months after the release of Lateralus. I loved it, then I heard Aenima and thought it was fantastic, I became a bigger fan of Tool than the person who introduced me to them. I think Opiate is fantastic, and I probably prefer that to Undertow. The sound of Undertow feels really dated and steeped in post grunge muddiness that just doesn't do much for me. A few classic songs, of course.

So I'm not a late-30-something, but I'm also abit older than the current 'youth'. Also, I'm not your average music listener. Like alot of the people on this forum, I am a musician (not in that pretentious way, it's just easier to use the word musician than say I am a player of instruments). I appreciate Tool for their use and skill at their instruments, their ability to craft and their ability to shed the ego for the benefit of the music.

And I think, therein, lies the problem for me.

While Lateralus felt like a breath of fresh air, and you really felt an appreciation for having 5 years out and freshening their approach, I feel it's had the opposite effect here. They sound like 4 individuals moreso on 10,000 Days than in any other album. Of course, someone will quote that out of context and say 'Well what about Rosetta Stoned?' And, as I say, there are moments of brilliance on this album. But it's not an album of brilliance like Lateralus is. The magic you describe is, for me, that feeling that Lateralus is ONe SINGULAR sonic experience produced by 4 musicians but having an existence over and above each individual. I feel this isn't there on 10,000 Days. They are still a great band, they are still great individual musicians, but they never fully gel to form 'Tool', only flashes of 'Tool' shine through during passages of standard (for Tool) musical work.

Maybe Lateralus was bad for them. They obviously realised the shadow and deliberately put the album there with the shades of riffs (people don't like the term recycled, so I use shades of riff, I don't want to debate this any more, I'm very pleased people can't hear them, because they have taken away an air of originality about Tool for me). After 5 years, the guys can play, but the songs are generally combersome and plodding, there's no thread of genius, just a few flashes of class.
I think I agree completely with that post.
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:39 PM   #45
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

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Originally Posted by MasterOfKtulu109
I think they are the standard in rock music these days. It's kinda strange how large their fanbase has become, considering they are still fairly underground (very little radio play and publicity compared to all the other bands out there) and their songs are not just little singles to have on in the background. Just look at sales. There hasn't been a rock act this year (or in recent years that I'm aware of) sell close to 550k copies in their first week. I don't even know if a single band has broken 400k in their initial week's sales this year.


As the band members have said in interviews and it's true; they are one of the very few bands that survived the 90s. They have sorta continued what Metallica built in the 90s. I'm not sure I see any bands coming around recently that will carry on after Tool has finished.
I agree with most of what's said here. It is very suprising to see how big Tool really is. They don't really have a mainstream sound and most of their singles are over 5 minutes long when usually it's a standard for singles to be in the 3 - 4 minute range. But I guess it depends on the area you live in because Tool gets MAJOR radio play here (Northern California), even long before 10,000 Days was released. I've heard soo many Tool songs on the radio like: Sober, Prison Sex, Sweat, Stinkfist, Eulogy, H., Forty-Six & 2, Aenima, No Quarter, Maynard's Dick, The Patient, Schism, Parabola, Ticks and Leeches, Vicarious, and The Pot. Maybe even more.
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Old 07-04-2006, 01:34 AM   #46
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Hey spook man, before I made any points I said imo too. I wasn't having a go at you, I was just outlining my own stance, like you were.

Last edited by Jimmeny; 07-04-2006 at 01:37 AM..
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Old 07-04-2006, 07:38 AM   #47
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenA
Yes - I imagined this was the case!

I can send you a link if you want to hear them yourself.
Absolutely. Link me...
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Old 07-18-2006, 07:37 PM   #48
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregor.samsa
I disagree. I think the "edge" is still there. A simple test: compare present day Tool to most other bands. The edgeless quickly become apparent. There's a built-in contradiction in your argument as well: how do you come to 9/10 but no edge? I think there's
an undercurrent of Tool detractors out there looking for excuses to push them down. The two used here are a 9/10 album and age. IMO that's simply disingenuous, and it borders on elitist segregation (i.e. old folks to the back of the bus). But I understand that hero worship can be tiresome and unrewarding.
Well, I came to 9/10 because the album really sounds great. The songs are arranged really well (well...for someone who enjoys non-conformist rock song structure). And it DOES rock hard.

It really is a great and fabulous record. I tried to discuss what I felt was lacking, and a lot of the subsequent posts helped me refine my views and enjoyment of the record. I am not beholden to my original post. I was looking for discussion, not flames, and I am very pleased with what folks posted. I think it's just nostalgia for an earlier period in my life when Tool were a big influence.

One poster mentioned that they would rather Tool play to their strengths and feelings NOW, as opposed to trying to "recapture" something that was a function of being new, He / she is absoultely correct.

After the discussion in this thread, I feel like I am just pining for the old Tool. That is what coloured my review originally.
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Old 07-19-2006, 03:05 PM   #49
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

yay, gregor.samsa is back.

God, that was so [no].

whoa.
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:58 PM   #50
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryzur
I often hear people mentioning that this is Tool's most musically complex album to date. Musically speaking, other than rhythms Tool has never been complex, their melodies and harmonies are both pretty thin.
Dude, I couldn't agree more. I love them, but musically speaking, Tool just isn't terribly complex, and never has been.

PS: I miss the edgy Tool. As a whole 10k days just never has done anything for me compared to their other albums. I'm not bashing Tool or 10k days, because they are both kick ass! I'm just saying that I personally prefer the older stuff.
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Old 07-22-2006, 08:32 AM   #51
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Im going to agree with 10kDays missing that "certain something." Call it what you want, but Aenima and Lateralus had something that changed the face of music. They were such a big step towards something new. But in Tool land, 10KDays is nothing new. It would have been if it came out after Undertow, or even Aenima.

For me, the new album just isn't exciting. It didn't make me say "WOW", like the other albums. Its a good album, but nothing more. But, to each his own :)
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Old 07-29-2006, 07:56 PM   #52
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

I've been noticing with myself recently that it takes a very long time for this album to garner some appreciation.

I've been listening to Tool heavily since February or March (yes, I'm incredibly late, forgive me please), starting with the typical Lateralus choice. I then decided to check out Ænima shortly after, because Lateralus felt like a bit much. I immediately warmed up to it, enjoying the contorted mix of anger and humour (I believe that the contortionist contained in the artwork is 100% symbolic for the attitude of the album). Even today it still seems fresh, after listening to it up to thrice a day.

Of course, I did begin to listen to Lateralus, and approached it much differently than I approached Ænima. For me, Ænima was an album that I listened to when I needed something there to pull me through, like a shoulder to rest upon. Whether I was angry or feeling down, that was the album for me.

Lateralus, on the other hand, was an album I used to guide me spiritually. It had this strange meditive vibe to it, something that forces you to sit down and actually listen to, moreso than the previous 2 full-lengths. It helps me forget about everything, and at times I've even cried during it.

Ænima and Lateralus for me were albums that I instantly appreciated. I could connect with them, and I had the freedom to interpret the lyrics as I chose. Most songs I still don't know how to interpret, but that's why I keep listening.

XM Days, however, is something I've been listening to since its release. I mean, I appreciate it.. but there just isn't that connection there. I'm positive there will be that connection in a few more months, or maybe a year.. or maybe a couple years. But it'll come, as I continue to grow with the album. Maybe I'll be able to connect to Rosetta Stoned with my further psychonautical journeys, or I'll start seeing the world in a different perspective and connect with Intension/Right in Two. Whatever the connection may be, I know for a fact it will come for me.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, and I apologize if everything I've said here has been said before. But this is only my first post, and this is the most positive topic I could find yet.

Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:44 AM   #53
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yay, gregor.samsa is back.

Ok, I am [no], so what

whoa.

Last edited by DON IOTAE; 07-30-2006 at 12:45 AM.. Reason: Ok, ill stop posting now... i love you guys (and gals!)
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Old 07-30-2006, 01:49 PM   #54
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

UPDATE:

Ok, I was reading everyone's ideas and thoughts, and I have changed my own thoughts on the new record.

The catalyst was a poster's idea ( EDIT: Guitar Pete 987...sorry dude, I should have quoted your post, it was really on the mark, and was what inspired me to think and listen to the album a little differently )that TOOL should not endeavour to "re-capture" a certain sound, vibe, or dare I say it..."edge". They would be doing a huge dis-service to themselves and their fans. Some won't get it right away, or ever, but that's what they are about. Themselves, and ONLY themselves.

They are a reactionary band, and are really reflecting their own moments in their current lives. Perhaps they were not kidding when they called this their "blues record".

The lack of humour (except for Rostta Soned...the lyrics are really quite humourous, just not in the way we expect), the lack of cynicism and a large tinge of regret and sadness is what they are feeling right now, and perhaps I wasn't prepared for that. C'est la vie.

Maybe I will really feel the euphoria and rush that I got from Aenima and Undertow when I am in the right emotional space. Could be 20 years from now.

Funny. I was listening to Sabbath's "Sabotage", and I find that I really get it and have a bigger emotional response to it than I did when I was 15. Perhaps the same is true for 10,000 Days. Just as well. I like gifts that keep on giving. I'm sure this record will be played by people 25 years from now like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd.

Unlike Staind, et al.

You know what? Fuck the edge. I don't need it with this record. There are other gifts from this album.

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas. It means a lot that one of the few threads I start actually wind up being useful.
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Last edited by Garguantua; 07-30-2006 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 07-30-2006, 02:17 PM   #55
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Re: A review after long thought and many listens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenA
Here you/we go:

These are a sample of what 'my' kids are listening to. I stole this from their myspaces, where you can play a song for people who are looking at your myspace, so I have included that as well.

Dan (plays bass): Frenzal Rhomb, You am I, The Darkness, The Doors, Tool, .jinn, Solver, Sleight of Hand, System of a Down, My Chemical Romance, The Vines, Australian Crawl, Avalon Drive, Metallica, Foo Fighters, Nirvana (Playing Last Minute – Vile)

Paragon (High School Band): Incubus, A Perfect Circle, Tool, Dream Theater, Metallica, RATM....and Rod Stewart (playing their own song "Your Enemy - which is fucking brilliant BTW)

Mitchell (plays guitar): after the fall, blink 182, all american rejects, wyclef, sublime, bob marley, system of a down, wolfmother, story of the year, dmx, box car racer, black eyed peas, foo fighters

Nick (plays guitar): Bloc Party, Talking Back Sunday, Death Cab for a Cutie, Gyroscope, Kings O Leon (Playing The Game – End of Fashion)

Claire: Foo Fighters, Cold Play, Metallica, Incubus, Savage Garden Jack Johnson (Playing We want more – The Living End)

Krystal: Michael Jackson, After the Fall, Anberlin, The Audition, Mariah Carey (Playing You’ve made us – The Audition)

Tyler: Tool, A Perfect Circle, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, Go with the Flow – QOTSA, (Playing Crystal Meffin’ – McDevvo and Shady Piez)
Hi Helena!

Thanks for that. It's kind of fascinating to see what kids are into these days.
It's also nice to know that they listen to music from all ages and times (was a little disappointed to see no classical, or jazz. ( I love baroque music and Myles Davis and Charles Mingus). But otherwise...it seems like the kids are alright.

Would like to see what is on YOUR iPOD!.... Hahaha.
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