I fucking LOVE you!!!

I am wrong. Do whatever you want. If it makes you more connected with the music fucking go for it. What I wrote before, is what I was thinking when reading another one's interpretation. It may seem fucking stupid to me, but to the person that thought it out, that made the interpretation, it makes fucking sense. And that's all that matters. It's what you think the music means to you. I may seem like a hypocrite here, but you can thank Steedus for that.

heh, sounds more to me like someone who isnt too arogant to admit fault... *metaphorical handshake*

There is usually very little to be found in Tool's music. It's just not very rich most of the time. Sometimes it is... sure, but often it just lacks or just rehashes the same old melodies and style. Personally, for instance, if I found out that MJK's lyrics had no thought behind them and were just blind stabbings at things which sound profound, if I ever found out that were true I'd take all my Tool cds and get rid of them.

If you're into music in the sense of it being ear candy then I do not believe Tool is the band for you. They're music, when you're really honest about it, is pretty bland. Adam centers his style VERY VERY strongly on the open D and just 5th chords in general, a lot of his rhythms and melodies are very reminiscent of each other, and his guitar solos are probably more simple minded than Curt Kobain's a lot of the time. The musical horizons he presents with Tool just are not very diverse (perhaps purposefully so, and that is a whole other subject), and I don't believe ANYBODY here can argue contrary to me on that.

Now, I respect Adam as a guitar player (even considering what I've just said) but I just don't buy that "We should listen to Tool and appreciate them for the feeling we get from their music alone" shyt. Their music is depraived in the sense of it's diversity, and if I were to listen to a band for a feeling I get from their MUSIC ALONE (as in what I've called in the "ear candy" sense) then I would go to another band who was not so confined in their style.

Considering what I've just said, why do I listen to Tool then? Mostly for the richness of MJK's lyrics, that's why. The import of the lyrics present an extension to Tool's music which dwarfs any raw "feeling" I could ever get from just listening to the music without paying attention to the lyrics.

Yeh so im gonna disagree with you real strong like...

Tool is anything but bland. Sure enough adam isnt a technical genius on guitar, but he doesnt need to be. All the band members come together to create a rythm and flow which is plenty enough ear candy. I manage to lose my self between the sounds every time i listen to one of their songs, (except for maybe RS), and with some songs i find i cant listen to them in ordinary everyday moments cuz i really do get lost in the music.

As for confined in style... yeh id have to say u were wrong. Other than adams aparent lack of creativity, they are about as diverse as any prog metal band you find. Sure enough the songs of each album are all in a similar vain, but thats because each album is a trip in itself, and is designed to be one experience (even so please compare ticks and leaches to parabola and tell me there istn enough variety to please the surface ear...). But tool evolves so much between each album that... well... lack of diversity???? WWWWHHHHHHAAAA???? I mean you compare 10k days to any of the other albums, or Undertow... or Aenima... or Lateralus... or Opiate... and WOW, variety.

sorry if my arguments isnt well thought out, im in sleep lag, but i think you get my point...

I pitty you that you can find the same enjoyment i do when listenin to their music man... your missing out on a whole fucking lot.

I can't believe what I'm hearing here, 'very little to be found in Tool's music'? 'Their music is 'bland' WTF?? Obviously you are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion confuses me. Tool has got to be one of the bands that inspire its fans MOST to 'feel' the music, as you put it, rather than listen for technical wizardry or anything like that. You sort of contradict yourself when you say that their music is bland, they rehash old sounds and are not technical (well Adam at least) and then say that you shouldn't listen to Tool for the feeling you get from it? What would that leave? Lyrics yes, but listening to music for lyrics alone can't be particularly fulfilling, why not just read some poetry or sit and read the lyrics.

Tool is one of the few bands I have ever heard who mesh vocals with music so beautifully, they are made for each other, all four band members contribute equally, and although there is obviously the lyrical aspect in addition to the actual vocal sound, it is clear that Tool really don't intend us as fans to consider the lyrics as a separate entity, in the sense that say someone like Bob Dylan would, someone who uses music more as a vehicle to convey a message rather than for the beauty in music itself. The music and lyrics are as one, and we are meant to experience in this way… in this sense they are more of a 'feeling' band than any other I have ever listened to.

I am not sure if that made sense. I am just really stunned at this viewpoint. Tool are one of the most original and least 'bland' bands around, imho. Oh, and I agree with Luodasa in that there has been a great deal of progression in their music… when you ask for diversity from a band what exactly do you expect? A country album, a dance album? Tool are Tool, they have progressed in their own way from album to album, it seems perfectly logical to me. Any further deviation from their own signature sound would probably leave the majority of fans pretty pissed off at what they were hearing.

/rant

great post KT.

Look... well, first of all, I don't mean to be disrespectful to the band by being overly critical, so I will not pursue this argument very far. But, I would like to follow up a bit..

I am a big fan of Tool. I appreciate all that they've done, bigtime. They certainly have created some mind-blowing music. I am critical of Adam's guitar input to the band often, but I also recognize that he's got a thing going that is distinctly his own. He is sort of like the Tony Iomi (Black Sabbath) of our generation, which fits Maynard perfectly as the Ozzy Ozbourne of our generation. :-) (it IS a good fit, given that they both struggle against religious dogmatism)

Even considering the respect that I DO have for the band, including Adam, I just think they are notably bland at times, in particular with their lack of exploring different melody possibilities or different chord intervals within their music. Adam centers his style STRONGLY around perfect 5th chords and dissonant intervals. (for non-musicians, a "dissonant" interval is annalogous to the sound of grinding gears... it's unsettling sounding. Adam uses disonance VERY often.)


Because you, like me, have let Tool win you over and because we now respect them very much for undoubtedly some genius music they've created in the past (in spite of it's notable blandness) I believe you are accepting some of their deficiencies and writing them off as being Tool's "signature". Hey... if Adam or the band were ever to come out and say "Yeah, we do that on purpose for artistic reasons" then I would say "Ok, then yes, that is Tool's signature style.. their repeated monotony of 5th chords and disonant intervals is purposeful to induce their idea of some particular musical experience". I'm just not sure if this monotony of style is for some artistic purpose or if it is just their musical boundaries (Adam's it would have to be mostly).

MANY many many many people who are NOT very much into Tool often remark that they just seem "monotonous" or just always sound "zoned out" (which would be in reference to the hypnotic disonant intervals always occuring). These people are not as biased in their opinions as I feel you two who have responded to my post are being... Hey man, I love Tool... I respect them for all they've accomplished... but they have cornered their style and I personally feel like Adam in particular could benefit by perhaps venturing out with his guitar playing habits a little more.


Tying this all back to my initial reason for posting, because of what I've said I just don't buy the comments by people (beginner of this thread, amongst many others) who insecurely criticize others for putting too much value in the lyrics and not enough in the music. I would be willing to argue in a court of law (and expect to win unanimously) that the power behind Tool's music is totally reliant upon how Maynard finishes that music off with his lyrical sentiment. The music by itself may bring the emotive feeling part of the way, but it would fall short if MJK didn't pick it up at his contribution point and take it the extra like 75 yards home. In my opinion, listening to Tool without being aware of the lyrical aspect is a depraived experience more often than not.

Once again i suppose it comes down to the whole "each to his own" thing...

Id argue with you in court, cuz take away maynard and id still love the songs. And im not sayin this because iv been blindly won over by tool and cant speak against anything they've done... i find adams disonance brilliant. Like some of the timeing in Lateralus... youd say its unsetteling,where as i find the shivers it sends up my spine intensely enjoyable. I do note that adam doesn tend to be a bit bland... on his own. and if u were to play him by himself then yes i may throttle myself to escape the boredom. But the way he plays fits in nicely with each song, which due to drums (may i point out that danny is anything but bland???) bass, and yes lyrics, have great variance and intrest...

You've said people are biased when they overlook various shortcommings in tools music. I think you'll find it simply comes down to a differance in opinion. You've yours, maynard carrys the band further than it could hope to travel by itself, which is perfrectly fair enough, and i aint bitching about it. but try to avoid saying that other peoples opinions come from an inability to say anything but "i love tool", that they are accepting anything the band does as brilliant... some may be insulted :P

Oh, incorporating dissonant musical intervals in music the way Adam does IS very cool... I just think he's overdoing it now, to the point where I wonder if he can play WITHOUT using dissonance. Ideally, a professional musician should choose a style to play not because it is the only one they CAN play, but because it communicates a certain musical experience. I'm sure that Carey could play convincingly many different types of styles... because of this fact, even though Carey always plays ONE style with Tool, his ability gained from being familiar with other styles shows through while he plays with Tool and this noticeably enriches their music.


Fair enough, of course. I wasn't intending to say that everybody else is biased, and I'm not. I suppose I was just pointing out that many non-Tool fans immediately recognize much of their music as bland and monotonous, and any individual, once having acquired the "taste of Tool", may overlook that monotony.

I have been critical of Tool enough. I have made my point. Take it or leave it. But anytime someone makes that dumbass comment about putting too much value in the lyrics and not enough in the music, well, then, you might here from me again.... or maybe in the future I'll just post a link to this message.