I think it holds a more personal meaning related to the indiviudal mind trying to ''let go'' of all bad thoughts and cleanse the soul from the past
I agree
This song deals with alchemy (turning lead in to gold), "sinking deeper to find it" (sellf refelection), saturn ascends (30 cycle, mid life change), and letting go. It seems to deal with the mid-life cross-road of improving oneself by getting past beliefs and/or obstacles that you may not be ready to let go of. The "grudge" of deciding (1) whether to change for a different future (knowing that you know you should), or (2) staying on your current path which could lead possibly to decension.
Very interesting, the following album show an extreme departure from TOOL's norm, both on album and live, and that the new album is called 10,000 Days, which is roughly 30 years, coupled with the lack of older, more angsty songs from TOOL. Perhaps Lateralus and 10k fit together as an overall topic of change. (I think Jambi deals with this alot too, finding you saturn or center and protecting it, devil had me down, shelter the devil and got what I wanted)
For those of you still chasing the holy gift, perhaps the you should consider that Lateralus as only part of the puzzle. without Vigniti Tres, the two albums are 23 songs, and it is odd that 10k seems so brief.
I think it holds a more personal meaning related to the indiviudal mind trying to ''let go'' of all bad thoughts and cleanse the soul from the past
I agree
This song deals with alchemy (turning lead in to gold), "sinking deeper to find it" (sellf refelection), saturn ascends (30 cycle, mid life change), and letting go. It seems to deal with the mid-life cross-road of improving oneself by getting past beliefs and/or obstacles that you may not be ready to let go of. The "grudge" of deciding (1) whether to change for a different future (knowing that you know you should), or (2) staying on your current path which could lead possibly to decension.
Very interesting, the following album shows an extreme departure from TOOL's norm, both on album and live, and that the new album is called 10,000 Days, which is roughly 30 years, coupled with the lack of older, more angsty songs from TOOL. Perhaps Lateralus and 10k fit together as an overall topic of change. (I think Jambi deals with this alot too, finding you saturn or center and protecting it, devil had me down, shelter the devil and got what I wanted)
For those of you still chasing the holy gift, perhaps the you should consider that Lateralus as only part of the puzzle. without Vigniti Tres, the two albums are 23 songs, and it is odd that 10k seems so brief. And evidently they had already worked pieces of this album when they were touring lateralus (parts of wings played live in 2002). Maybe if we pay clsoe attention to where they play the snippit intros live, it will fit together somwhow?
Thanks for endurring my random thoughts, just talking off the top of my head (too much caffiene tonight.
Hmm, i think this song refers to area 51 in roswell new mexico, in the old days, Saturn was sometimes used as a reference to a UFO, and the grudge was the false report the goverment used to as the cover up, i think this is about lieing about reality to protect what some seem as right for society, but doing a bad job.
I`ve never had a clear interpretation about this song, but I think it`s about holding a grudge for old things. Thoughts about forgivness and unforgivness and stuff like that. It refers to things like religion, discrimination and everyday life... if we all just could have a fresh start, thing would be better....maybe. Letting go of the things that are no longer relevant.
EDIT: Typo
__________________ "Boy, everyone is stupid except me" - Homer Simpson
It seems to deal with the mid-life cross-road of improving oneself by getting past beliefs and/or obstacles that you may not be ready to let go of... the new album is called 10,000 Days, which is roughly 30 years...Perhaps Lateralus and 10k fit together as an overall topic of change.
...without Vigniti Tres, the two albums are 23 songs, and it is odd that 10k seems so brief...
I've been long entertaining some of the ideas you posted up there... like 10,000 days is roughly equal to a Saturn return which is mentioned on the grudge and would link both songs by the theme of affecting a mid-life change, as you mentioned in your post.
Along with that, I just wanted to help aid your considerations by mentioning how it is VERY likely that Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned is a "prequel" to Faip di Oeed (or whatever!). Rosetta Stoned would be the telling of the guy's story before and during the part where he was "strapped down to [his] bed" at the hospital... Faaip de Ooad would of course be the part afterward where he escaped. If you think of these songs in this manner, then it makes sense as to why there's such a huge build-up to Rosetta Stoned. Because when you actually listen to Faaip de Oaad it's easy to become curious as hell as to what this guy's back story is... well, Tool climatically delivers with the telling of this story in their new album.
Another little tid bit,... supposedly Faaip Do Eed (or whatever, haha) means "Voice of God"... well.. Lost Keys almost certainly refers to lost keys to the gates of heaven... the same gate that is mentioned in the song "10,000 days" and of which "you're the only one who can hold your head up high" and shake your fists at.
I've often argued for a strong interlink between the songs... glad to see it's occuring to others as well.. if perhaps in varrying ways.
__________________ the Justifications:
Do we move only 'cause we need to move, and hense should state all the rest -the justifications- as mere pretense?
the "Give away the stone..." line comes from the books of the golden dawn almost word for word. If you search hermatic order of the golden dawn on google youl find that tool references their teachings quite a bit
This is what The grudge means to me personally, i cant speculate on what ground maynard wrote the song, thats for him to know.:
Wear the grudge like a crown
Of negativity
This is showing your anger, your grudge, your hate tpward something, also the first reference of it being negative.
Calculate what you will and
Will not tolerate
You are setting boundaries of tolarence, but your grudge limits you to to open and free.
Desperate to control
All and everything
you feel out of control and want to take the control back.
Unable to forgive
Your scarlet letterman
'unable to forgive your secret lover/writer'
Clutch it like a cornerstone
Otherwise it all comes down
hold it tight, dont let the grudge go or you loose the control the grudge gives you, you looses the security in set boundaries, given by the grudge.
Justify denials and
Grip 'em to the lonesome end
your justifying your denials to yourself and wont admit your wrong.
Clutch it like a cornerstone
Otherwise it all comes down
same as above
Terrified of being wrong
Ultimatum prison cell
terrified of being wrong (back to justifying your denials)
a final demand, the rejection of which may lead to a resort to force
Saturn ascends
Choose one or ten
a new chapter of your life is starting, you can change now, you can get rid of the 'stone' or the grudge and get on with your life.
chooses one or ten, one- a new path, a reinvention letting go of the grudge.
ten-carry on and wallow in misery
Hang on or be
Humbled again
Humbled again
if you choose to change your ways, you will be humbled by realising youve been wrong.
Clutch it like a cornerstone (crescendo)
Otherwise it all comes down
Justify denials and
Grip 'em to the lonesome end
same as above
Saturn ascends
Comes 'round again
Saturn ascends
The one, the ten
the one the te, saturn represents both choices, letting go or gripping tighter.
Ignorant to
The damage done
the damage your grudge has done to your life.
Wear the grudge like a crown
Of negativity
Calculate what you will
Will not tolerate
Desperate to control
All and everything
Unable to forgive
Your scarlet letterman
same as above
Wear the grudge like a crown (crescendo)
Desperate to control
Unable to forgive
And sinking deeper
sinking deeper into the grudgem its becoming a part of you.
Defining
Confining
Sinking deeper
defining the rules you set the rules in your comfort zone in the grudge because you are convinced you are right. confining yourself to your prison of the grudge
Controlling
Defining
And we're sinking deeper
controlling your life, not being open to change or anything else
Saturn comes back around
To show you everything
to show you both paths to give you the means to choose the next path of your life.
Lets you choose what you will
Will not see and then
Drags you down like a stone
Or lifts you up again
drags- another 30 years oif the same, grudge, ans not letting go
lifts- new path, no grudge
Spits you out like a child
Light and innocent
spits you out like a child, a child being able to question everything, not relying on comfort in routine ir tradition of the grudge, being able to truly question everything with inquisition.
Saturn comes back around
Lifts you up like a child
Or drags you down like a stone
To consume you 'til you
Choose to
Let this go
Choose to
Let this go
basically, let the grudge go and start a new life, it'll be better, if not the grudge will consume you.
Give away the stone
let the grudge go
Let the ocean take and transmutate
the ocean-the cleanser, washing away the past crap and changing
This cold and fated anchor
the anchor, keeping you in the same old rut of the grudge
Give away the stone
Let the waters kiss and transmutate
These leaden grudges into gold
taking the cold ugly, negative energies of the grudge and changing them into a positive outlook, to open your eyes to the truth.
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go
Let go (crescendo)
Good analysis. There are different ways to interpret Maynard's lyrics as we all know, but, this one is pretty easy to understand. Not everyone is holding grudges over silly, petty shit though, these feelings are tougher to deal with for some people. Not my favorite Tool song by any means, but, definitely one I relate to.
Anyway, this song is basically saying let go or sink and sink until it kills you or someone else for that matter...huh...I know that I could certainly strangle a couple of people.
I don't really think about its meaning, but it works for me by helping me to let go of something that has been bothering me. I feel relieved after listening to it.
__________________ "Since the one thing we can say about fundamental matter is, that it is vibrating. And since all vibrations are theoretically sound, then it is not unreasonable to suggest that the universe is music and should be perceived as such." - Joachim Ernst-Berendt
Very few good ideas see the light of day, and some of these posts are paradigms to this theory. Freud would have a field day with most of your interpretations of these songs. Anyhoo, I'm very tired and apprehensive because I'm awaiting a departure to my hometown and I decided to put in my two cents, which mean virtually nothing to you Tool geeks (or aptly put, tools). But for those who want to know what another pretentious, cornerstone grasping piece of shit thinks, here you go. The Grudge is about deconstruction in an existential sense, dismantling standards and perspectives to become pure and transcend the evolution of presumed necessity. Saturn was a god who mitigated control of the universe, and ate his children so to avoid further demagogues. Eventually Jupiter overtook because Ops, Staurn's wife persuaded him with a stone. (That's really not important, though.) Basically, Saturn, the mitigation of standardized and constructed thought "comes back around" to make sure we aren't contriving any cornerstones for thought that are fraudulent. Fraudulent fundamentals, in other words. Grudges, as another synonym. Emotional qualms that are egoistic. We need to "crucify ego" (as said in Reflection) and realize we are all one reality, not these selfish individuals who are concerned with individual qualms and thought. Become one and transcend, beyond over analyzation which will muddle opportunity. Allow the reality with which you are inevitably a component to sway you in its current and act on unadulterated will and basicality (in a transcended sense, not banality), to "spiral out, and keep going". "We are eternal" because we're continuous and one, and it is in ourselves that make it holy. To paraphrase Osho, we are all waves in the ocean, and it is impossible for one wave to deny the tide. Naturally, all of these forum geeks are self indulgent, arrogant lone wolfs who think their standards are so outstanding and amazing that they needn't adhere to majority. Well, yes, majority is ignorant and corrupted. But living in separated bundles and finding pleasure in arrogance and esotericism is just as stagnating. Grab onto the correct rhythms, sentiments, and regimes and then spiral out... and keep going.
Saturn was mythologically known as the god of agriculture, he was also said to have moved to Rome and begin the Golden Age, so "transmutate these leaden grudges into gold" I believe means not letting your mind impair you from artistic expression, "lead to gold" is simply the opening of your mind and letting your grudges go, ie "let go"
attach these observations to disgustipated, you'll like it:
http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?p=1615869
it is key that the grudge is at the start of the album. when i listen to the cd, the grudge is the song that makes me forget everything that im thinking about, everything that happened that day, that week, everything. it focuses me on the music, makes let go of what i think of as reality. it prepares me to take in the messages and feelings of the rest of the cd in a whole new way
Saturn ascends every 27 years or 10,000 days (which, at that interval, you must change the engine oil, rotate the tires, and change the brake pads so you can keep moving on).
__________________ Veiled and shadowy, you attack me too;
Now at your whim I bare my back
Under your assault.
so assuming maynard is talking about the tree of life, which also is probably referred to in Lateralus as well, does that mean maynard is a jew? It would certainly mean he agrees with some of the core Jewish mysticism beliefs. what do you guys think about this?
Ignorant to the patterns you're trapped in. Unaware perseptions purpetuate the behavior that make the patterns. Negative toward solution because the solution points to you--your hand in the brickwork you are trapped in. The ego manifesting separation. Leaden grudges are stored energy. Imagine your self at the bottom of the sea--holding on to a lead weight--believing moving it will propel you into (what ever) peace, love, wealth, joy--the surface where you might breathe! When actually letting go will give you what you desire. Let go the weight of your beliefs (or false perseption or what ever it is you clutch to stay HERE) and you will fly--float rapidly to the surface instantly becoming what you desire. Letting go turned into a treasure (gold).
It is larger than the artists who express it--being about large changes we under go now as our planet(s) shift and we move into higher faster states of energy. Choose one or ten--it makes no differnce--change is bouned! Forcing us into the space where our thoughts alone form our reality. What you think IS--this reality is manifesting faster and faster. Me? I believe we are moving to conscious unity with the astral plane where there is no longer an illusion (death, separation, inside, outside, time). But... what do I know? myspace.com/ryanbrockcampbell
Last edited by Ryan Brock Campbell; 12-27-2006 at 10:24 PM..
Ignorant to the patterns you're trapped in. Unaware perseptions purpetuate the behavior that make the patterns. Negative toward solution because the solution points to you--your hand in the brickwork you are trapped in. Leaden grudges are stored energy. Imagine your self at the bottom of the sea--holding on to a lead weight--believing moving it will propel you into (what ever) peace, love, wealth, joy--the surface where you might breathe! When actually letting go will give you what you desire. Let go the weight of your beliefs (or false perseption or what ever it is you clutch to stay HERE) and you will fly--float rapidly to the surface instantly becoming what you desire. Letting go turned into a treasure (gold).
It is larger than the artists who express it--being about large changes we under go now as our planet(s) shift and we move into higher faster states of energy. Our thoughts alone are forming our reality more and more tightly at that. What you think IS--this reality is manifesting faster and faster. Me? I believe we are moving to conscious unity with the astral plane where there is no longer an illusion (death, separation, inside, outside, time). But... what do I know?
Ignorant to the patterns you're trapped in. Unaware perseptions purpetuate the behavior that make the patterns. Negative toward solution because the solution points to you--your hand in the brickwork you are trapped in. Leaden grudges are stored energy. Imagine your self at the bottom of the sea--holding on to a lead weight--believing moving it will propel you into (what ever) peace, love, wealth, joy--the surface where you might breathe! When actually letting go will give you what you desire. Let go the weight of your beliefs (or false perseption or what ever it is you clutch to stay HERE) and you will fly--float rapidly to the surface instantly becoming what you desire. Letting go turned into a treasure (gold).
It is larger than the artists who express it--being about large changes we under go now as our planet(s) shift and we move into higher faster states of energy. Our thoughts alone are forming our reality more and more tightly at that. What you think IS--this reality is manifesting faster and faster. Me? I believe we are moving to conscious unity with the astral plane where there is no longer an illusion (death, separation, inside, outside, time). But... what do I know?
This is the best first post in the entire history of the internet.
Someone edited "The Grudge" wikipedia page with his/her interpretation of the song, and I think it puts into better words how I see this song. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grudge_%28song%29
I copied and pasted it, while cleaning it up a bit. I do need to mention that I disagree on the interpretation of the 'Saturn ascends' lines, but it is a pretty accurate interpretation, in my humble opinion.
Quote:
wear the grudge like a crown of negativity
Go ahead, put your grudge out where everyone can see it, let everyone know that you're mad and that you want to be that way.
calculate what we will and will not tolerate
Decide exactly what you want to get mad over that would make you hold a grudge. this way when it happens, you can keep putting that crown back on.
desperate to control all and everything
you don't want to be on good terms. you WANT the grudge. if you can control the grudge, you can control the person you hold the grudge against.
unable to forgive your scarlet letterman
Although they know they've done wrong, you won't forgive them under any circumstance.
clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down
Clutch the grudge that you hold like a cornerstone, because you know if you don't then the grudge dies. You don't want that.
justify denials and grip em to the lonesome end
Come up with excuses to continue holding the grudge, and stand by them until the end, even when everyone hates you for what you're doing, hence lonesome.
Terrified of being wrong, ultimatum prison cell
You're scared to death that someone can prove that you have no reason to hold a grudge. you worry about it so much you put yourself in your own little prison over it. [Remember this whole time, I believe Maynard's making fun of the people that do this. Almost reverse psycology by showing them how stupid it is.]
Then I have to agree with 'Insecure Dilusions' idea on the Saturn thing. Saturn was god of all greek gods. He was sooo worried he could be overthrown he ate his children. Yet Zeus was the one thing that Saturn overlooked. That one thing overthrew Saturn and killed him. Hang on to the grudge like saturn would, because if you don't you'll be humbled in your ignorance. And later he says "ignorant to the damage done"... ignorance isn't stupidity, it's not knowing about something. in this case, Saturn was ignorant to the damage done to himself until Zeus killed him.
unable to forgive and we're sinking deeper
You won't forgive, and for this you're slowly creating a larger grudge.
The grudge begins to define you, confine you, even control you.
Again to the Saturn reference for almost the rest of the song. Saying that Saturn, almost as if, takes over your body. He and you become one, you make the decisions Saturn chose. And not until you end the grudge will he quit tearing you apart.
Finally Maynard quit's criticizing and simply tells them what they need to do. Give away the (corner)stone. Let the oceans take and transmute this cold and weighted anchor (that was your grudge, holding you down). Give away the stone. Let the waters take and transmute these leaden (heavy burdensome) grudges into gold. LET GO
Finally Maynard quit's criticizing and simply tells them what they need to do. Give away the (corner)stone. Let the oceans take and transmute this cold and weighted anchor (that was your grudge, holding you down). Give away the stone. Let the waters take and transmute these leaden (heavy burdensome) grudges into gold. LET GO
This song is one of those great examples of where a Tool song is actually a tool. A helpful device that assists us. If we applied this song to our lives then we would be better off. Holding onto a grudge is like holding onto a block of lead that is sinking into the sea. Just let go, and you will transmute into gold. Just give away the stone. It is so hard to hold onto it anyway.
This song reminds me of Whitlam's quote "Maintain the Rage" after he was sacked as PM. It is so hard to maintain the rage - it takes so much energy. And it also reminds me of that scene out of "The Piano" where she has the piano tied to her ankle as she is dragged down into the sea. As she lets go she lives again.
I know I am just raving on - I just love this song - and I wanted to say something - anything!
so assuming maynard is talking about the tree of life, which also is probably referred to in Lateralus as well, does that mean maynard is a jew? It would certainly mean he agrees with some of the core Jewish mysticism beliefs. what do you guys think about this?
i dont think he conforms to any organised religion because to do that would be not thinking for yourself which is key to any sort of growth. the tree of life, mandala, the star of david (representng merkaba) are all themes brought forth in tool's music, but it doesnt make him a jew. these ideas are all the bassis of the true Reality. If you need to post a 'religion' on him, try reading the ancient secret of the flower of lif by drunvalo melchedezik, as most of the themes in the music are covered in this book.
"What is "The Grudge"? can anybody tell me what this song is about? I would really appreciate it!!!!....... I am just not getting was maynard is refeering to in this song... please elaborate if you can.. Thanks!~
See; bassplayerphilps "An essay I did." then think Freud....
__________________ stop trying to pull me out of my self indulgant pitifull hole
Naturally, all of these forum geeks are self indulgent, arrogant lone wolfs who think their standards are so outstanding and amazing that they needn't adhere to majority. Well, yes, majority is ignorant and corrupted. But living in separated bundles and finding pleasure in arrogance and esotericism is just as stagnating. Grab onto the correct rhythms, sentiments, and regimes and then spiral out... and keep going.
are you not being arrogant and, well, yes ignorant by assuming anyone who has a spiritual belief or finds esoterical meaning in things are wrong and you are right? judging by the 'tone' if you will of the post you are arrogant and self indulgent.
i went to school with a guy called hugh gudgeon. he was tiny. i mean like 4 foot nothing. my mate rob picked him up an rested him on his head , an turned to us saying, "wear the gudge like a crown". life imitating art or what?
