Is it possible that the solution to the puzzle is the synchronization of 3 songs from the album? I've posted this theory in some other threads, but decided to create 1 from scratch so all of it will be at the top, in 1 posting.

Please bear in mind I'm not saying this is the official answer, but alot of people on the 'net in other forums are in agreement with the finding. Also, I'm not the originator of this idea, it came from another person on another forum. So I can't take credit, except for trying to put all the pieces 2gether.

Now, let's begin. We'll start with the answer, then work our way backwards.


ANSWER:

Combining 'Viginti Tres' & 'Wings For Marie' onto 1 track that's played simultaneously with '10,000 Days' creates a whole new wall of sound that synchs up exactly at 9:14 for the remainder of the song.


SUPPORTING DETAILS:

1st off, you can download a mixed version & listen for yourself here (please note that I didn't post the .mp3, someone else did. the latter part is off by a split second, but you'll still get the gist, remember, 9:14 is when it gets synched): http://www.savefile.com/files/6920219


The 3 songs combined are:

Track #3 - Wings for Marie (pt 1) 6:11
Track #4 - 10,000 Days (Wings pt 2) 11:13
Track #11 - Viginti Tres 5:02


The duration of the last track is 5:02. The duration for track #3 'Wings For Marie" is 6:11. If you add those times 2gether, it equals 11:13, the exact duration of Track #4 "10,000 Days". If you do it well, the final strophe of the both parts of Wings (Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescence. / Difficult to see you in this light.) should sound at the same time.

Note the numbers used in the 3 song time lengths above - 11, 13, 5, 6, & 2. 11:13 is the total running time of '10,000 Days', and the U.S. release date was 5/2/6



THE DEAL w/ '23'


23 is the number for synchronicity (see Wikepedia 23(numerology) & synchronicity). It is also the title of the last track (in Latin) 'Viginti Tres'
23 pops up alot on this album. In no particular order of importance:

In the remix of all 3 songs playing, at exactly 9:14 (9+14=23) Wings pts 1 & 2 synch up for the remainder of the song (which, oddly enough, on the mixed .mp3 I found, the total synch time plays for 2 minutes & 3 seconds, aka 23)

There are 11 tracks on the album. The hidden mixed song would be track 12. 11+12=23.

The hidden song is '2' tracks playing simultaneous created from '3' songs. 23.

The last track could also be written as "11. 23". This could also possibly represent the beginning of a Fibonacci sequence, 1,1,2,3




BLAIR's RECENT NEWS POSTINGS


Blair's last 4 updates before the 'Rosetta Stone' rant all have the same time labeled as 2:05. Break it down like this
2=1+1, or 11
5=2+3, or 23.

Blair's 'Rosetta Stone' rant has a post time of 11:05. Again, 5=2+3, 23. 11 & 23. The last track is 11. 'Viginti Tres' (aka 23)

On 5/5, the original puzzle posting from Blair stated the clocks as being '11:07, or 1:17' For the hidden song, it's a combo of song #'s 3,4 & 11. Songs 3 & 4 are techincally one song called 'Wings For Marie', so 3+4=7. 7 and 11.


THE BAND & CD PHOTOS

****This by far is the one section that's open to many a theory. Here's my take on the significance of the pics.******

Everyone's focusing on the objects IN the photos, not what the pictures ARE.

They are 2 separate pics, slightly different that combine to form one 3-D-like image.

The Mixed/Hidden song is 2 separate tracks, slightly different, that combine to form a 3-D-song.

2 images are needed for the 3-D illusion, one for your left eye and one for your right eye. 2 tracks to make the 3-D illusion, one for the left ear, and one for the right.

The album cover looks like 3 heads that combine to 1. You're combining 3 songs to make 1.


So, what about the stuff that IS IN the pictures??

Well, if we're looking for clues, then you could subscribe to the '11/13' candle theory proposed in Justin's pic (remember the length of the song is 11:13).

Or the supposed '23' in the flowers in Danny's photo.

Or did you notice that in Maynard's pic there's '2' phones, and '3' glasses that have wine poured into them. 23.

Or that in Adam's pic, there are '2' lights on the wall and the skeleton appears to be holding up '3' fingers? 23.

But the real kicker regarding the band photos?? The presence of '11' in all the band pics, in the exact same place.

Adam - 11 beakers on the table, lower right of pic.

Maynard - 11 on the clock, lower right of pic.

Justin - 11 candles, on the (yep!) lower right of pic.

Danny - The stems of the flowers appear to make an '11', right side of pic.


*****************************************

So, there you have it, my hypothesis, with supporting details & so forth. If I'm right, then maybe I'll get a set of steak knives autographed from the band.

I hope U enjoy my attempt at the 'puzzle'. We can debate & theorize all day & nite, but we won't know for sure until one of the band members comes out & tells us, or a reliable source ala an Area 51 alien.


All in all, TOOL is brilliant. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something.

Cheers!
J
www.myspace.com/illustrated_man

Cool synopsis. I'm sure if it was meant to synch up (which it DOES sound like it), then all the pieces fit.

devi-

Let me preface this by saying 2 things:

1. I havent heard the track that you can download in this thread, so I cannot say whether or not the synch thing works.
2. I have been, from day 1, a major skeptic as to whether or not there even IS a puzzle to be found in the album.

However, after reading your concise treatment of the available 'clues' it seems as if you may have a point and indeed may be the winner of an autographed set of cutlery from the band. My biggest complaint about the 'puzzle' hunt to date has been that all the clues/interpretations people have been posting just seem either A) so esoteric that they actually make the puzzle more complicated rather than lead 1 step closer to solving it or B) they sound completely laughable. So (if the synch really works - won't know until I get home from work), nicely done. If the synch doesn't work, well, I guess, uh..."die in a fire" or something (only kidding).

B

listening to the song. dig your theory.

thank you for the time and effort.

Although this has been brought up before, its kinda creepy how many times 2 and 3 or 23 come up.

I must say that that is a great analysis of the photos and although I still don't believe the sync is the puzzle, the evidence keeps piling up...

it just seems to me that if it was supposed to be a combination of songs, it would be only two of the songs, keeping with the idea of two images needed to make a stereoscopic picture.

After you combine the 2, you have 2 tracks. 2 tracks that are the same (timewise, at least) but slightly different.

As with the photos, 2 pics, the same but different.

And remember the importance of the number '23' showing up. They could've easily made 'Viginit Tres' at the beginning of 'Wings' pt.1, but it would've been way to obvious. They put it as a separate track, or a 'lost key' :)

the songs do match at 9:14 but they are part 1 and 2 so they are one in the same. so its not completely crazy they would synch up. all be it that is just one part of the theory.

i don't like that mp3 though. because its not perfect and also is it against the rules to have it played stereo instead of left right?

i am working on my own combo to see what i think if its matched better.

also the first part sounded pretty good with virginti tres (sp?).

No, it's fine in stereo. Whoever created the .mp3 I found panned 1 track slightly to the right & panned the other to the left.

If you, or anyone else, does manage to splice together a perfect fit, PLEASE send me a message or post a link for all of us to enjoy.

people should do this shit with brittany spears music, im sure they'll find things there too.

no offense, i dont agree with this theory.

but im trying to keep an open mind.

For the artwork, etc to fit with the answer would it not be better if the combined VT + wings be played in left channel while wings II is played in the right channel (or vice versa)?

im gonna add that in that mix of the 3 songs, it was pretty miraculous sounding when wings pt 1 kicked in. I was just sitting here (i dont smoke anymore, havent for a long time) and all it made me want to do was get ripped and listen to it.

I want more than anything for there to be something amazing out of this, having tried syncing up the songs (as said) and placing them in the left and right channel (as said) they don't sync perfectly, reason being they are part 1 and part 2 of one song. So they are going to be the same, only their tempos vary which makes the songs NOT match perfectly. VT will sync with anything due to its ambiant style i.e. no tempo. For the band to go soooo deep into making these photos into a puzzle for this to work, the song would HAVE to be either 1.) perfectly sync'd or 2.) sound amazing out of sync.... which it doesn't, being a musician the songs together create an uncomfortable melody at times that is more distracting than beautiful... if this is the answer to the puzzle, we are missing something.
I might try to change the speed of one of the songs so that their tempos become the same and see what happens, but this couldn't be what the bands wants... they would make them perfect if so...
ps... even if there is no actual amazing solution to the puzzle, what a better thing a band could do but bring their fans together as one to discuss art and music beyond this worlds cookie-cutter expectations.

Hmmm, well, yeah, true. I wish I had the know-how/capabilities to set this up in a 5.1 surround sound.

If you wanted to pan 1 track completely to the left, and the other completely to the right, the it would be in more accordance with the art, giving you the true '3-D' effect I think they're going for.

I'm still hoping for a "perfect" mixed version someone with soundmixing skills will post. I've read other's complaints about the posted .mp3 not mixing perfectly and it irritates them and I do agree, but it's the overall point of the songs synching at the time, and all the numerology significance. It all falls into place with the TOOL mythos.


Thanks to all for listening to me on my findings.

I have done it in 5.1 and nothing else is different than what I mention above in my last post.

I remember reading on that one forum (can't remember what it's called) where someone came up with the idea. Whoever came up with it, doesn't matter. It is really amazing how that worked out. Thanks for bringing this up and if indeed this is the puzzle, well damn the band put a LOT of thought and logistics into making it all work out. I know you're all thinking "yeah they just adding time to songs so what?" but I haven't seen anybody do something like this since the Flaming Lips.

i would hope that the answer or solution to this puzzle would be more than just songs synch'n up for a few seconds...if you ask me thats a pretty shitty puzzle answer...and yes ive heard the mp3 and it does not really do anything for me.

peace

ok so i just mixed them all together for you with the "difficult to see you" parts matched together and panned one side to left and the other to right. i could have done better i asume, but you guys dont pay my bills so meh enjoy.....ive uploaded it you you to listen.

http://www.savefile.com/files/6623593

the sync up bit is kinda cool when the mess all becomes clear and with the slight offset, and the differnt pts comign out of different speakers it works , but this is a bit sloppy i think maybe.
I dont think a perfectly synced version would actaully work, cos the offset is like an echo, and the lyrics are differnt at the end of both songs so it allows you to hear both sets of lyrics. works ok i think. if that doesnt make sense its 2:15am and im a bit tired

It's a convincing arguement, and the times do match up, but like stated before, if this is the answer then we're missing something. It doesn't sound right, and if Tool went to the trouble to do this then I would expect they'd make it sound perfect, which it doesn't.

I agree, if this is the solution, then you'd think it'd be easier for us to piece together.

If we're missing something, it's probably this: A sweet multi-track digital mixing station :) *L*

Then again, if one actually had access to all the individual tracks & was able to line them all up from the 3 songs & mix them properly, you'd probably get the full intended version of the song, 'Wings For Marie' without pts. 1 & 2 separated (but probably mixed slightly to 1 side or another).

Do any other musicians & recording engineers see what I'm getting at?

As compelling as my case may be, I also don't want this to be the final solution. But the more I think about it, the more logical it seems.

I choose to be in denial, because there has to be more to it than the breaking down of 1 song's tracks into 3 different ones to be pieced together.

Plus, I don't want to be the one blamed for ruining the fun and figuring out how the magicians did their tricks. *L*

I dunno if it's been suggested yet, but why not attempt to construct an 11:13 (roughly) minute song with ALL the songs on the album. Try and fit them together in pairs to equal approximately that length. It'll probly sound like minions are roaming the earth.

I don't know if anyone has seen this before, maybe, but look at justin's photo through the lenses... BUT UPSIDE DOWN. Is it just me, or do i see the reflection of a skull on the table staring back at you with the top row of teeth just at the edge of the table. Could this be something we haven't seen yet?

I agree. I tried to sync the songs with audio editing software in original wav format and it isn't happening. I'm downloading the mp3 right now, but it sounds like it isn't synced right either. Although I admit the evidence is strong, I'm not convinced yet.

ok so i just mixed them all together for you with the "difficult to see you" parts matched together and panned one side to left and the other to right. i could have done better i asume, but you guys dont pay my bills so meh enjoy.....ive uploaded it you you to listen.

http://www.savefile.com/files/6623593

Another thing that doesn't work with this theory to the puzzle is that you need to have editing software to make it work. I don't think they would make you go through that trouble. I think the answer is simpler. If there is an answer.

On the same wavelength as this statement - well yeah, so it matches up, but what's the point? Do we just say, "well that's neat." and move on? It seems to me that there should be something more to this than there is.

-Dustin

Instead of this, which sounds awful, try playing Wings and Viginti Tres at the same time then after them, play (-) ions and 10,000 Days at the same time.

So start ions after Viginti and 10,000 Days after Wings, of course.

It sounds better.

I agree with the fact that it may sound cool....but so would countless other songs.....I agree with the person who said that if there was a puzzle involved I doubt that TOOL would only let the people fortunate enough to have editing software discover the mystery.

i already posted that, but doesn't everyone see that?
TWELVE candles on the right table. 12 not 11.

just behind the biggest candle you can clearly see the 12th candle.
the shadow of that candle is also visible - see carefully.

[sorry for repeating this]

good effort with the rest though

Yes, but in the other thread concerning the pics, I revised my statement and said there are 11 'fully visibible' candles.

Yes, there are 12 candles. 11 visible, 1 hidden. Would coincide with the hidden song theory.

also, look at the light between the back two candles. it almost looks like there could be a 13th, shorter candle placed behind the one on the right. i think the only other explanation for that reflection would be from overhead lighting, but the way the light bounces off the bottom of the back candle would suggest a closer light source. anyone else see what i mean?

btw, know1special 2u, it's a really cool theory, i'm just not sure i agree that it works. nice job, though!

My humble opinion: the puzzle in the band pics (if there even is one) is not necessarily related to the track synching thing. It's just too easy to start seeing two's and three's anywhere (or other numbers); if you try hard enough, you can find 'meaning' anywhere you look, even if none was intended.

As for the track synching thing, I have to admit that's pretty cool. I had realized that the two tracks ended similarly, but I didn't realize HOW similarly. Still, I don't think the two tracks were really meant to be played together. They sound sort of cool together because (1) they are both in the same key (2) the same chord drones through most of both tracks and (3) they end the same. I think these things help the two tracks cohere into a single unit, but it's not really proof that they were meant to be played together.

The fact the the timings add up correctly when you add in Viginti Tres is an intriguing fact, though....

True, I agree. But maybe you don't need editing software to do it. You could do a "poor man's version" similar to the Radiohead 'Kid17' theory.

Has anyone tried using the CD & a media player like an iPod to see if there's a difference??

For example:

Get 2 stereos, 1 for the CD, 1 for an iPod (or your media player of choice)

Create a playlist of 'Viginti Tres' & 'Wings Pt 1'.

Start your iPod & CD together.


************

Just want to say even though I continue to defend my findings, I do appreciate everyone's insights. I keep trying to disprove my theories as well....

It seems the main disagreement is that there are too many parts that sound just like noise & doesn't synch up exactly.

IMHO, if it were properly set up, it'd would all make sense, with the last parts of 'Wings' lyrics echoing/mirroring one another, as if the track were in true 5.1 surround 1/2 of the vocals would be coming out of the front satellite speakers & the other vocals from the rear speakers.


Plus, TOOL have cited Fantomas as an influence for making this album. Anyone familiar w/ Fantomas, Melvins, or most of the Ipecac artists, then the "wall of noise/sound" should be coming as no surprise.


So, until a better solution is brought forward, or until I finally get around to bribing everyone enough $$$ to believe me, I'm sticking by my findings.


"A message of hope for those who choose to hear it ......And a warning for those who do not"--rosetta stoned

I like this

probably something you shoud know about this

quoting adam (paraphrase) in guitar world last month on the subject of the two not meeting up perfectly until 9:14

"(under the influence of meshuggah) we've been just trying different tempos and rhtyhms, and seeing where they meet up...."

No ones gonna read this, but if you have sound forge, put the end of wings pt1 into the left channel, the end of pt 2 in the right and then listen! It is really the only bit that does actually sync up well.

go from 4:24:437 in pt1 to the end in one channel, and add that to 9:26:752 to the end of pt2. The effect is really amazing, but the rest of the song sounds like shite!!

Again, that end bit is really amazing, if anyone knows how I could upload and mp3, let me know, or PM me and I can email it to you.

So, after a day of starting this thread & the feedback from all the other TOOL fanatics (thank you! by the way! this is all great fun), I'll leave you with these current final thoughts on the subject:

1) Yes, if the mix is dead on, then it would sound great beginning at the 9:14 mark. If you listen to the last 1:59 of Wings pt1 & 10,000 Days it should be obvious it's the same music, so why wouldn't it synch up properly?

2) I have a friend that's promised me he's going to mix this properly so it can be posted for ALL to enjoy, so we won't have to adjust our iPods or borrow a friend's copy of the CD.

3) I was slightly off on when I was writing this theory out as a mathematical equation. I found the missing key.

The mixed version isn't called 'Wings For Marie'. It's 'Wing For Marie Pt 3'.

(Viginti Tres+Wings pt1) + 10,000 Days (Wings pt.2) = Wings For Marie Pt 3.

Do U see it now?

1 song + pt. 1 + pt. 2 = pt. 3 AKA 1,1,2,3

I'd already connected the Fibonacci sequence to 11. Viginiti Tres (11. 23), so perhaps the connection to the Wings Pt. 3 theory will give it a bit more validity.

Or just solidify the fact that I'm having waaaaaaaaaaay too much fun trying to figure this puzzle out! HA!

Cheers!
J