I think Tool needs to stop playing in America, what with all the bitching that goes on about the setlists, about the band's actions onstage, and about whatever other silly little band-related complaint any pubescent suburban kid may have. I'm fairly disgusted by the amount of bitching that goes on directed towards the band about their live show decisions. You arent involved in them, you know nothing about why they do what they do.
BUT FLUX DOESNT IT JUST MAKE SENSE THAT THEY WOULD BLAH BLAH BLAH INSTEAD OF BLAH BLAH BLAH
I dont care. Im not involved, so I am not one to point fucking fingers and say how it could be done better to suit MY PERSONAL TASTES. I support the band, and I accept what they've given me. Who wouldnt want to hear a complete live Undertow show? It's about what they want to play, and what they think we should hear.
About the shows ending earlier than you thought they should have, well, perhaps you shouldnt have proven yourselves as distinctly unworthy to be there in the first place, what with getting in fights and throwing shit onstage. Also, it could have had everything to do with the venue and not the band.
I think European/Aussie fans are much more appreciative and probably dont have their heads so far up their own golden asses, that way they can actually hear, and appreciate it when 4 people decide to take a crew out to a certain spot and rock the house.
For a minute. And it wouldnt necessarily apply to others outside this section. And I think it should be seen, so yeah, I suppose we're having editorials, and that might just be a perk ;)
youre generalizing the whole group by saying (paraphrase) that we prove ourselves "unworthy" to be there. for the shit that one or two people do in regard to throwing things on stage you find a way to blame the american fans as a whole for it.
I agree with your statement Paraflux, but also want to counterpoint from experience. (I am a ten year fan, 20 plus concerts) ....There a so many diverse Tool Fans on these pages. In particular, those few fans, who post after concerts who are seeing The 10,000 Days Tour, for their first live Tool experience. They are the same young fans who may not know much or anything about other albums/tours, and think this is the best tour they have ever seen. The setlist is incredible to them, the show and the visuals are spectacular.
Rightfully so, the other psots, "The most of us" who are veterans of other tours, the loyal following who got Tool to where they are now...we were all first timers once. Because of that, with the 10,000 Days Tour, we may want to relive the experience of that "Wow", or "the best fucking show we have ever seen". Its not a fault to hope to hear a favorite song we heard "in our first experience". We just hope the band can give us a sense of where they came from...., and in the process introduce these new fans to songs from Undertow, Opiate, Salival or Aenema..Maynard in a Blue suit, or dressed like a woman, words on perspectives of life. "To turn this experience into something positive". We remember a much darker image of Maynard, words of wisdom "such as Think for yourself" before Third Eye..it was something like a mystical experience, and it made us think that Tool was the most unique band out there, (not a frat -bar experience as most bands of the day) We hoped they were/are the best thing going.
All in all those who are supposedly bitching...I dont think we are bitching, we may want/hope that the band introduces the new fans to the thing to which we originally thought they were. Its like we want all fans to share in that experience.
Sure, bands change over time. We should accept that and expect it. Thats where I agree with your post Paraflux.
But, the 10 year fan or 20 year fan, has been there for a reason. We liked the message from the beginning, and hope the band brings a sense of that message, into their 2007 tour.
youre generalizing the whole group by saying (paraphrase) that we prove ourselves "unworthy" to be there. for the shit that one or two people do in regard to throwing things on stage you find a way to blame the american fans as a whole for it.
Agreed. There are morons at every Tool show regardless of location, some more than others. The last show I was at (Reno) some guy spilled beer all over my girlfriend and I. Then proceeded to sing as loud as he could off key with the wrong lyrics, trying to mosh with us elbowing me and shit. Luckily he was smoking tons of weed, sercurity saw this came and threw his ass out. That guy was a moron, but I'm going not to sit here and judge all Tool fans by a single idiot. Even with the short set list and that guy it was still a great show.
I agree with your statement Paraflux, but also want to counterpoint from experience. (I am a ten year fan, 20 plus concerts) ....There a so many diverse Tool Fans on these pages. In particular, those few fans, who post after concerts who are seeing The 10,000 Days Tour, for their first live Tool experience. They are the same young fans who may not know much or anything about other albums/tours, and think this is the best tour they have ever seen. The setlist is incredible to them, the show and the visuals are spectacular.
Rightfully so, the other psots, "The most of us" who are veterans of other tours, the loyal following who got Tool to where they are now...we were all first timers once. Because of that, with the 10,000 Days Tour, we may want to relive the experience of that "Wow", or "the best fucking show we have ever seen". Its not a fault to hope to hear a favorite song we heard "in our first experience". We just hope the band can give us a sense of where they came from...., and in the process introduce these new fans to songs from Undertow, Opiate, Salival or Aenema..Maynard in a Blue suit, or dressed like a woman, words on perspectives of life. "To turn this experience into something positive". We remember a much darker image of Maynard, words of wisdom "such as Think for yourself" before Third Eye..it was something like a mystical experience, and it made us think that Tool was the most unique band out there, (not a frat -bar experience as most bands of the day) We hoped they were/are the best thing going.
All in all those who are supposedly bitching...I dont think we are bitching, we may want/hope that the band introduces the new fans to the thing to which we originally thought they were. Its like we want all fans to share in that experience.
Sure, bands change over time. We should accept that and expect it. Thats where I agree with your post Paraflux.
But, the 10 year fan or 20 year fan, has been there for a reason. We liked the message from the beginning, and hope the band brings a sense of that message, into their 2007 tour.
I personaly can't speak for everyone but I can speak for myself and this is what I have to say. I have only been a major fan of Tool for 2 years back in 2005 so I guess that I am a newbie and considered unworthy, but I also will have seen them 5 times at the end of this 2007 tour. So I just want to point out that yes there are some fans that site Tool as there "favorite" band but in reality it is just there flavor of the week. From all the Tool shows that I have been to or going to in the next month I have never once taken the band for granted. Since I have only seen them on there 10,000 Days tour I have seen very similar setlists which is completely fine because similar setlists or not each show is unique and different some most nights they are dead on and some nights they are just going through the motions but either way each show was incredible I don't care if they play there latest single 11 times in a row for the show it will still be worht going to. It would have been awesome to see them back in the Lateralus tour which is rumored to be there best and the Undertow and ænema tour but oh well Tool has a right to change and evolve just like peoples taste have. I do and will always support Tool and there artwork which has had a personal impact on my life and I am only 15 years old. Out of the 5 shows i would have been to by the end of this tour only 1 of them was in my home town of St. Louis or under a 2 hour drive.
If you want to chat personaly about Tool email me at [email protected]
__________________ "We don't have the time or headspace to worry about what other people say"-Adam Jones
i was there for the lateralus tour and this tour and i think the experience is just as amzing. the only thing is that there were a hell of a lot more people around this time and many seemed to be there for a party(constantly up and down the aisle for more beer) and not the music, but all in all it is unbelievable. yes i would love unpopular songs and older music to be added but i cant really complain seeing as every song is worth it. maybe there is a message in the songs left out for some dates as well as the ending of vicarious(irony) oh well, i still felt their energy. i also understand the seating on this tour but its kind of annoying when the lights go out and no one can find their seats for 20 minutes into the show( i guess thats not tools fault though
I think Tool needs to stop playing in America, what with all the bitching that goes on about the setlists, about the band's actions onstage, and about whatever other silly little band-related complaint any pubescent suburban kid may have. I'm fairly disgusted by the amount of bitching that goes on directed towards the band about their live show decisions. You arent involved in them, you know nothing about why they do what they do.
In addition P-flux, if you go back and look at what you wrote you would realize how silly it reads. While I read and respect your well thought-out analysis' of Aenima and 10,000 days, you are way off base here. You come off, unintentionally no doubt, as the de-facto spokesman for the band. I'm pretty sure YOU don't know why they do what they do either. Not trying to diss, but plenty of people here (myself included) have traveled long distances at great expense to catch a couple shows and were somewhat let down by seeing the same songs performed. It's not to say that the shows sucked, it's just that we/me had hoped for something a little different and didn't get it so we expressed our disappointment. No big deal.
Uh, the fact that I dont know is what keeps me from bitching about anything.
Fans spend their money, yes. THey get what they get, and they can either like it or not. Their choice. There is, however, a difference between being disappointed and TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I AM SO GODDAMNED MAD THAT THEY ARENT CATERING TO MY NEEDS. That's what Im talking about. There's nothing wrong with wanting to hear Pushit. Or AEnema. But to whine and moan and get all worked up over it is simply ridiculous.
Accepting the evolvement of the band from Opiate till 10,000 Days, yes I agree its important to understand. Cap letters to explain how pissed off you are about a show...(possibly induced by alchohol, weed, Acid, or other things)...think for yourself....forums are forums so we all may talk about things relevant. Paraflux, I like the fact you started this thread. The bottom line is we all really think they are a great band. The fact is, we want to love them even more, and that takes opinion and acceptance/tolerance/indifference to whats out there, in what we hear and then interpret.
But to whine and moan and get all worked up over it is simply ridiculous.
You're whining and moaning and getting all worked up about how people shouldn't whine and moan and get all worked up - with bonus generalizations. Do you really think the bitching would subside if they just stopped playing in America?
Last edited by Curbed Enthusiast; 05-20-2007 at 01:27 PM..
I think Tool needs to stop playing in America, what with all the bitching that goes on about the setlists, about the band's actions onstage, and about whatever other silly little band-related complaint any pubescent suburban kid may have. I'm fairly disgusted by the amount of bitching that goes on directed towards the band about their live show decisions. You arent involved in them, you know nothing about why they do what they do.
BUT FLUX DOESNT IT JUST MAKE SENSE THAT THEY WOULD BLAH BLAH BLAH INSTEAD OF BLAH BLAH BLAH
I dont care. Im not involved, so I am not one to point fucking fingers and say how it could be done better to suit MY PERSONAL TASTES. I support the band, and I accept what they've given me. Who wouldnt want to hear a complete live Undertow show? It's about what they want to play, and what they think we should hear.
About the shows ending earlier than you thought they should have, well, perhaps you shouldnt have proven yourselves as distinctly unworthy to be there in the first place, what with getting in fights and throwing shit onstage. Also, it could have had everything to do with the venue and not the band.
I think European/Aussie fans are much more appreciative and probably dont have their heads so far up their own golden asses, that way they can actually hear, and appreciate it when 4 people decide to take a crew out to a certain spot and rock the house.
i've been saying this since day one.
and also that they should come here instead of USA. ;)
You're whining and moaning and getting all worked up about how people shouldn't whine and moan and get all worked up - with bonus generalizations. Do you really think the bitching would subside if they just stopped playing in America?
lol, I'm whining and moaning? I'm just expressing reasons why people shouldnt be fucking disgusted over the shows, thats all. The day I let it get to me is the day I give this up. I think the whining and bitching would increase if they stopped playing america, but then at least they would know what they had once it would be gone.
Chill, if you arent one of the people complaining incessantly about the setlist or any other shit, dont worry about it.
This is kind of a hard argument to make on any side of the coin. As a fan myself, I'll admit that I've been...rather let down with the static sets this tour. It would be nice to get some variety, and I'll keep my hopes up until the tour's over, but I mean you have to understand Paraflux's reasoning for what he's saying. If you look at the review section for this tour he is responsible for making sure that the review section is just that...a review section. I've seen dozens of instances where people have posted their frustration, bitching, and general banter. 'Flux has to go through and delete all of this because it's a review section, not a discussion. More than sticking up for the band I think he's just frustrated with bitching in the review section. General comments and bitching are perfectly fine in the Live Discussion forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not gonna lie, I've bitched and moaned as well, it's human nature, just do it in the right place. I know he mention's that he's sick of the bitching in general, but again, remember that he is the one that has to filter all of this every day so try to understand where he's coming from.
__________________ "You tried your hardest and you failed miserably. The lesson is: never try."
Thanks Maz. Also, please understand that Europeans reviewing shows over there dont complain about anything related to the band, usually. If it's negative, its about the sound, or security or something based on the venue.
it amazes me how rock band fan site admins relentlessly try to control the thoughts of their constituents.
Thanks gregor. Yes, I clearly told people how to think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saget
If someone pays outrageous amounts of money, the least Tool could do is not make the concert the same as it was a year ago. I mean, come on.
I understand this more than you think. I'm not travelling to Dallas to see them because I saw them play it here 6 months ago. If they were coming here, sure, because last time they were here maynard was balls ass sick and the sound was fucking horrible. I was disappointed in that show, everyone probably was. But that's beside the point, and it remains that I just think if this is what they choose to do then that's what they're going to do, it's the way it's always been with them, and the idea has always been that you take it or you leave it. Just sayin.
I also just want to add that I think people are forgetting the fact that they are touring on 10,000 days album not Undertow, AEnima or Lateralus, yes I'd love to hear songs I've been unable to hear live (majority of them) but they are touring on their new material so of course they are going to play their new material instead of their old shit....
I understand this more than you think. I'm not travelling to Dallas to see them because I saw them play it here 6 months ago. If they were coming here, sure, because last time they were here maynard was balls ass sick and the sound was fucking horrible. I was disappointed in that show, everyone probably was. But that's beside the point, and it remains that I just think if this is what they choose to do then that's what they're going to do, it's the way it's always been with them, and the idea has always been that you take it or you leave it. Just sayin.
Same reason I'm not going. I was just saying that people who go expecting something different are going to be very disappointed. And then they will have to come here to bitch about it. I know if I spent the money and got the same show as before I'd be pissed.
But it also sucks that they aren't trying anything new. Aren't they getting bored?
I would think they would want to do different things. But there's a guy here who has helped with the lighting and design since 96, maybe he can help. His username is junior. Maybe they are locked into the set because of predetermined work already done, to program the lights/video with the songs they play. I cant imagine how big of an ordeal that must be. I would get bored, yes, but maybe lack the time, energy, and label funding for such tour support.
Maybe they are locked into the set because of predetermined work already done, to program the lights/video with the songs they play. I cant imagine how big of an ordeal that must be.
I can't really comment on the specifics of why, mostly because I don't discuss that with them.
I can (however) assure you it is not because of the lighting, video, or lasers.
All of those departments are willing to do whatever it takes to accommodate any additions.
__________________ If I'm on the toilet longer than 2 minutes I'm jerking off. - (jag) toolhed46n2//support your loco bands
Bin Purpose: You are the real fluxerpretation, its true personification. TOYKO!! R.I.P. The Alien Gus
for everyone whos disappointed they dropped $60+ on tickets and dint get what they wanted, theres always the option of dropping 10 bucks down at the Southside Grille-
I also just want to add that I think people are forgetting the fact that they are touring on 10,000 days album not Undertow, AEnima or Lateralus, yes I'd love to hear songs I've been unable to hear live (majority of them) but they are touring on their new material so of course they are going to play their new material instead of their old shit....
True, but after Lateralus was released, when did they have a tour that they weren't supporting it? They didn't. We all know how long it takes them to give us new material, and we should know that any tour up until the next album will be in support for 10,000 Days (I could be wrong though). I am sure they get a little tired of the older songs that they have played countless times and new material is probably more appealing to them. But that is their job. Just like any of us, we may not like what we do and it may get old but that is how we make our money. I don't blame them if they don't want to play some of the older stuff. I am sure they have their reasons, but it would be nice if they decided to not support 10,000 Days on a future tour. They have enough songs to put together a killer show... Could you imagine? And I think if they did that, people might stop bitching a little.
I guess I agree with both sides. I understand there is really no point in bitching because if you bought a ticket, chances are you probably at least glanced at the reviews before you purchased it (unless it was on an earlier date and there were no reviews). You really have no right to complain about what they play because they will play what they want to play and you could have just not seen them... And you weren't "stuck" with your ticket.... you could have sold it.... Ebay or Ticketmaster gives you that option.
__________________ Beautiful Mourning
Last edited by InsideTheOutside20; 05-20-2007 at 09:44 PM..
Having read a lot of the reviews for this tour I can definitely see where you are coming from. Especially since you have to filter out so much of this crap.
Thought it was also worthwhile to point out that at any given show the majority of the fans are probably first timers for a Tool concert or at the very least first timers for this tour. That aspect of the crowd certainly weighs in on the decisions the band has to make.
Another note to make is the huge difference in the demographics of the crowd from this tour versus the Lateralus tour. They haven't seemed to be nearly as diverse as they were in the previous tour. Lot more head banging, violent rock punks (not really sure how to describe the personality I'm thinking of) that seemed to have jumped on board recently, than the deep thinker Maynard would promote. If I had to guess I'd think MJK has been annoyed by that and if there is another album it will likely be very different from what we have gotten in the past, in the hopes of losing those kinds of fans.
they stiill put on the best show on earth, but i feel we all suffer due to the insane number of tour dates. I dont get the immpression MJK wants to pass the mike to the crowd during the vicarious ending scream, but maybe he is compelled to b/c there are 3 more month s of touring. I feel cheated, but personally my voice was shot after 5 songs.... so i dont really have a leg to stand on.
Considering their in their 40s and banged up (danny is still a monster), it all adds up to an immpossible task, for everyone involved. The band got in way over their heads. As fans, we are slightly disgruntled bc it is clearly not cheap to attend a show (btw how bout them $75 hoddies- what?! ). THis tour is analagous to a drug addiction. Appears they go thru the motions for part of the show, but then you run into crushing versions of lateralus, RiT, and anemia. And you need more... physically i think they have hit the wall after 10-14 dates, but ill still be standing (again) on 7/13.
for everyone whos disappointed they dropped $60+ on tickets and dint get what they wanted, theres always the option of dropping 10 bucks down at the Southside Grille-
Here is my two cents: Tool is tight. That is the bottom line. They play the songs they want to, if they wanted to play something different, I'm sure they would. It's not like they are purposely playing the same setlist just to piss the fans off. Or maybe they are, which would be hilarious. Tool doesn't owe us anything. Pay your money, and if you can't enjoy the best rock band out there, bummer for you. Tool is tight. That is the bottom line.
If someone pays outrageous amounts of money, the least Tool could do is not make the concert the same as it was a year ago. I mean, come on.
You hit that nail on the head. It is rediculous for a band to come to the same area almost 4 times in a two year span and hear the same setlist each time. Any band, tool or not. And the fact that tickets are so expensive and hard to come by makes it that much worse.
