LOL! That's that then, isn't it?

The jesus parachute, for the weak-minded. Religion persists because of its afterlife parachute, and the afterlife parachute persists because of weak-minded people just like those you 'have known'.

Maynard has never said he doesnt believe in a higher power, he just doesnt necessarily think its an old man with a white beard playing a harp on a cloud. he has always shown that he is a spiritual person, not necessarily a Christian, but he believes in something. Personally, I think we all should. It is a pretty depressing thought to believe that this world is all for nothing. I think something had to create all this. The fact is that none of us will ever really know for sure until our time to die comes. I think Maynard touched on this with the song. He was paying respect to his mothers beliefs, and thus, indirectly, his own beliefs as well.

I truly pity submachine. He always writes rediculous posts, with such a negative outlook on EVERYTHING. He or she must be one miserable person. And the funny thing is that he REALLY thinks he is smarter than everyone else who posts on this site, which results in proving to all of us how slow the guy really is. poor submachine.

And the Dawkins/submachine parachute exists for those weak minded individuals who believe that all that exists in heaven and earth is dreamt of in their philosophy (that's a twist of Shakespeare for you Sub, but you won't read his stuff because he often mentions things he didn't believe in and certainly questions things he didn't "know". LOL)
I think you're terrified that Judith's religion is true - because you "know" if it is you're done for!!
I remain open minded and I don't "know" that if there is a god, he would condemn you... as i see it, you have, in your ignorance, rallied some very intelligent people to post on this thread - and I'm very happy to know all of them...therefore your bad behavior has good results!

No, Parabola. Not at all.
I found the "little boy" insult really awkward too and was trying to work out what it was about it that seemed so odd (objectively, ignoring the fact that it was directed at me).

The angels play harps.
God plays a giant, gold and jewel encrusted kazoo.
Get your mythology straight.

It's not always thought that resolves things.

Thanks for completly ignoring the rest of my post...

It is not hypocritical to have respect for a religion you yourself do not believe in. He is not advocating/glorifying the religion at all. He's isn't saying "Go be a christian now!" That would be hypocritical, simply writing about a situation involving christianity is not hypocritical.

It would be like saying you couldn't write a book about christianity because you are not christian. As long as he doesn't start telling people that christianity is good and that we should be a christian he is not being a hypocrite.

Well isn't that profound?

Now I lol

4 cds, 15 years, and "he believes in something".

Back to reality, "Fuck your god!" =/= "Praying, heaven, gates"

Please don't accuse Maynard of writing "sacred texts" which cannot be refuted. That's the last thing he'd do.
I've told a lot of people to go to hell whether their is one or not, and I'm glad they didn't do so at my suggestion.
This is an expression of emotion, ie anger, not a commandment.
This is ART not GOSPEL.

i like the way you think

LMAO! This is fun!!

If you ever wondered how someone like Jim Jones would lead people to their own deaths...
It is, isn't it? The frustration with some of these people is gone, it's become very humorous and comforting, in a strange way.
Hard to remain an ignorant fuck with your eyes open.

And its frustrating to see someone (subadubdub) who thinks that this life is all he'll ever know and he's so fucking MISERABLE about it!!!
And we're all here trying to reason with him!!
YARG!
I'm gonna go play some Pong.

In some cases? Yes. In most cases? Maybe. In all cases? No.

Fuck man, life isn't so black and white. I know some religious minds( I am not religious at all myself) that are some of the most strong minded and intelligent people that will ever live.

To be so strong minded yourself you sure do seem closeminded too. A closed mind isn't strong, just stuck in a rut of its own ignorance.

I can't believe this thread is still going. There are atleast half a dozen points made by various posters that totally refute Submachine's take, and yet some how he's still finding a way to ignore them or take them out of context and keep plowing on about Jesus Parachutes and hypocrisy and fap-fap-fap-Dawkins-fap-fap-ohhhhhhhh. It's threads like this that make me confused at how this can be a forum for a band that's all about intelligence and open-mindedness... it sure feels like a damn ocean of stupidty at times.

I'll admit to my weakness, I like to watch him dance the same dance regardless of who comes along or what tune they're playing. In no way can I justify it.
You seemed to have a little fun with the "some how he's still finding a way to ignore them or take them out of context and keep plowing on about Jesus Parachutes and hypocrisy and fap-fap-fap-Dawkins-fap-fap-ohhhhhhhh", yourself... surely you can relate on some level.

you are my personal hero..who gives a shit about what people say? it says it right on the top left....OPINION

Ahhhh, so it does. Guess I was alright in giving mine then?

and yet when he preaches about heaven, gates, and the holy spirit, we don't have a right to say 'fuck you' right back.

lmao

Maynard isn't preaching - hey, I gotta ask - do you listen to Tool?

ok, well, they're this incredible band that creates this unbelievable music - and the lyrics? they're all about open mindedness and discovery and resisting intolerance and stuff and... oh... you wouldn't like them much... not what you're about...

I haven't read every post in this thread but I think Maynard is being a hypocrite.

He's being an asshole to every religious person except his mother; kinda like saying, "all religious people are hypocrites, except my mother; she really used religion in a positive way - and i'm closing my mind to the chance of there being someone else like this in the world"

Thats the point, he is doing what the worst of the faithful do, and that is base his opinion on his extreme, uncontrolled emotions.

like i said listen to the conmentary of the song "Judith" and MJK explains all of this.

youre god damned right

lol, why should I listen to a "commentary of the song", when the song itself is clear?

And if the song is not clear, blame the songwriter. We don't need commentarys, we need clarity.

Instead, we have contradictions and hypocrisy.

"Get off your fuckin cross!" =/= "Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father"

that's the sign of the cross, Reverend Sub, in reverse which makes the reference to "fetching" the spirit, son and father (which is not what a christian would do) anti-christian...

God damned straight, goddamit, damn it all if that ain't the truth.

Context, as in ok to believe sometimes, like, when it comes to a dead mothers soul? Don't think, don't question.

How many people blame God because of their afflictions? How many people become cynical and bitter and point the finger and become angry with anyone and anything. I think seeing the music for what music is is the most important aspect of tool: art, a form of expressing how you feel and see the world around you. They don't divulge in the typical arrogance of popularity or being rich and famous. I'm sure anything they write is their feelings at the time, like any other poet or artist. I've loved God, I've hated God...at times I haven't been sure there even is a god, been on the brink of finding out for sure. There aren't any answers to those questions and for Maynard to show his anger/frustration/resentment/forgiveness/acceptance is his issue. 10,000 days seems to be a change in attitude from Judith, but they are different times of his life. No one believes as strongly or as poorly from one moment to the next. I'm sure that in retrospect he sees his mother as being the strongest person in her faith that he has ever known. It's not an angry song, but reflects his intent that she deserves the best God has to offer because of her strong commitment to him during her life. He loves his mother despite the fact that he didn't understand (at least in one point of his life) how she could love someone that supposedly caused her suffering. There is no hypocrisy..only human experience.

Go, go, keep going, you're great, your amazing, keep it up!

lol submachine gun! why listen to MKJ talk about the lyrics and what it ment. not all songs are ment to take as fact. They are left for the person to think what the song is about. but in the question that you are asking i think you should listen to it cause its not a commentary on the Song but one on his aspect on the topic at hand. Im giving you the man himself. The man you are questioning is anwsering your question and you won't anwser. hypocritical?

your not a tool fan

And if the import of his lyrics contradict his true beliefs, he is either a really poor storyteller, or a hypocrite.

Wings I and II is not about respect for his dead mother, its about his dead mothers soul.

If he believes, he is a fool and a hypocrite.

If he doesn't, then the song works only as a joke.

Pick a side.

submachine...tell us exactly what Maynard believes in. Is it Christ? Does he follow Islamic beliefs? I don't believe he's said just what he believes in. Does he bash Jesus in all his songs, or are they metaphoric of something else? He's only offered a handfull of what he believes in: "all you know about me is what I've sold you, dumbfuck." I'm thinking he doesn't like the idea of following a belief blindly and doing what someone says without question. Look at Tom Cruise following Hubbard without any inclination of making a personal opinion. I'm sure Maynard doesn't feel there's anything wrong with being Christian, Islamic, Jewish, or any other religion if you're not an ass about it. Just make some individual thought about something, and don't be quick to hand out the "hypocrite" verdict.

Well isn't that convenient after a +15 year career. lol

i don't think the song is a joke or that he is hypocrite, i think he only wishes that his mom manages to rest in peace and maybe to dedicate to her a beautiful song of farewell.

Well, i think the thing we are all hitting on here is what exactly makes this piece such an incredible masterpiece. Maynard manages to capture the ambivalence of his feelings regarding his mother and her death. To me, its clear he despises the organized religion his mother clung to (the way the Rev. sub clings to his own faith) and he has managed to keep his hatred so subtle that most of you have totally missed it. Actually, referring to her as a "pillar of faith" is hardly subtle at all that''s downright sarcastic. It seems he was a little miffed too that she seem to take all the worries of the world upon herself.
In the end - this is a song about two people who truly loved and believed in each other even if they didn't share the same belief system.