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Old 02-04-2005, 08:25 PM   #41
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

"When the student is ready, the master will appear"

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Old 02-05-2005, 09:37 AM   #42
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

"Do not excede recommended dosage; if problems persist for longer than 7 days, contact a doctor immediately."

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Old 02-09-2005, 05:58 AM   #43
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

"But the fool in his mischief forgets
And he lights the fire
Wherein one day he must burn

So the fool
Scorning the teachings of the awakened
Spurning the followers of the law
Perishes when his folly flowers"

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Old 02-09-2005, 09:17 AM   #44
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Nice one, temp.
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Old 03-10-2005, 10:50 PM   #45
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwanggg
Undertow is not better than Lateralus.
I think any sane Tool fan would agree with me here.
I agree, kind of.

Undertow is groovier, and a better metal CD.

Lateralus is a better art *** drug user CD.
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:40 AM   #46
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKrist
I'm not exactly sure how the excessive veneration of this CD, (Lateralus), came to be. At this point, I'm convinced that Tool could wrap a piece of **censored by rcs filter** in tin foil and 2/3ds of the fans would be swarming Ebay to analyze its secret meaning and geometrical innuendo. Let alone eat it.
I'm going to ignore all the "spiritual enlightment" crap that people supposedly attain from this album for the time being, and cut to an analysis that actually has some objective purpose in a forum that is all about "what the song means to me." I'm so sick of hearing all this prententious bull**censored by rcs filter** about how Tool's music is only for the "intelligent" crowd and how people who liked Aenima/Undertow/Opiate better than Lateralus are generally just meathead junkies who didn't have the grand sophistication to grasp at its"deeper meaning." Get over yourself.
Lateralus is technically superior to its predecessors. The drums, acoustics, guitars... everything is generally improved upon on a purely technical level. But better technical aspects do not necessarily make for a better album all around, and the technical excellence displayed in Lateralus is unfortunately so contrived, so overcalculated, and ultimately so excessive that it consumes the musical heart and soul of an album that had the potential to be a masterpiece. It appears that Carey and Chancellor were so bent on creating ridiculous "patterns" and special time sigs in their music that the real message of the album is completely lost. Which is sad, because Tool is such an awesome band with such raw talent that they didn't need to TRY and make the music complex.
The title song of the album, "Lateralus," is a perfect example of this. The lyrics have absolutely NO relevance to the way that Maynard sings them or to the mood or pace of the song. Maynard drones, "Overanalyzing separates the body from the mind," and yet the entire song is a monument of overanalyzing and overcalculating time signatures and rhythm. It's at points like these when you KNOW that Tool got a bit prententious. The music feels so utterly forced that it's hard to listen to: Like Maynard wrote some lyrics and Carey wrote some drum lines that sounded good and they somehow tried to fuse them together. Which isn't surprising because this is exactly how Lateralus was created. The music just doesn't have the same feel as an album like Aenima where the lyrics and music flow, ebb, and build perfectly. How does Maynards endless, dare I say, Perfect Circle, droning have any relevance to what he is saying?
I know if I get flacked down for anything in this post it's going to be for this next comment. Lateralus fails to build in the same way that Aenima and Undertow do. Songs in Lateralus build and build and build... but the climaxes, if there are any, are weak, if not pathetic. In Lateralus we are brought up and up and the song builds to this perfect point where you expect Maynard to finally just SAY SOMETHING. Instead, we have to endure a lame, droning diatribe about how intuition is withering bla bla and overstructured drums by Carey. Again, it doens't feel natural, it feels FORCED. In Parabola we are swept up by Jone's guitars only to hear these "healing" soft lyrics by Maynard about how he is not alone. I can't emphasize enough how forced it is. The style does not fit the intended mood of the lyrics in any way you slice it. Every aspect of the album, lyrics included, are simply too long-winded and complex to fit together into a true masterpiece. This ultimately hurts the flow of the album too. It's a long, excessive, droning procession. You have to question whether it was meant as background music or as the food for thought Tool supposedly intended.
Now look at a song on Aenima like Eulogy. Here the music builds to a point and suddenly EXPLODES. You can feel the inspiration as Maynard screams and grunts, "So long, we wish you well.... not all martyrs see divinity but at least you tried." The guitars make sense. The base leads the music. The lyrics fit the way Maynard sings them, which is with intensity and raw inspiration. He actually sounds like he cares about what he wrote.
I don't want to completely bash Lateralus because if it is looked at separate from the rest of Tool's work it is still a damn good creation. I hear everybody when they say that they are tired of all the same music they hear on the radio or on MTV. But all this garbage about the secret innunedos in the music and how all of the drum patterns equal some sort of pentagram code that can only be fully understood by a complete spiritual and geometrical understanding of the Temple of Solomon: If Tool, or ANY band for that matter can't create a piece of music that communicates the intent of the authors without requiring special research then the music is failing to communicate. And that makes it bad music. People need to stop trying to ADD meaning when it isn't there and just accept and understand that what the band created: the SONG, should be enough. That's not to say that I believe people should be spoonfed music. Not at all. I just think people need to stop pretending there is all this ultra-deep bull**censored by rcs filter** meaning to a song like The Grudge. The lyrics are self-explanatory.
In any case, Lateralus pales next to the inspiration and raw feeling of Aenima or Undertow. In the end it will be songs like Sweat, Opiate, Prison Sex, Sober, Undertow, 4 Degrees, Stinkfist, Euology, H., Four-six and two, Push-it, Aenima, and Third-Eye that will be remembered, along with such satirical and humerous tracks as Eeir Von Satan. These are the tracks that will be remembered because they are inspired and carry a strong message. The excessive attention paid to detail in songs like The Grudge, Schism, and Parabola is not necessary in a band that already has enough focus, talent, and vision to create an inspired album without it.
good climaxes on lateralus:

the grudge
schism
ticks and leeches
lateralus

the rest are just continuous songs.
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:26 PM   #47
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan2994
good climaxes on lateralus:

the grudge
schism
ticks and leeches
lateralus

the rest are just continuous songs.
What about the part of "The Patient" where the guitars get really distorted and maynard keeps saying "must keep reminding myself of this..."

Or the when parabol becomes parabola

Or in Reflection on the mini guitar solos

Triad also builds up very well to its climax
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Old 03-12-2005, 05:04 AM   #48
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

The whole fucking album is a cosmic orgasm.
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:01 AM   #49
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefire
What about the part of "The Patient" where the guitars get really distorted and maynard keeps saying "must keep reminding myself of this..."

Or the when parabol becomes parabola

Or in Reflection on the mini guitar solos

Triad also builds up very well to its climax

they are climaxes, but they don't hit me that hard.
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Old 03-16-2005, 12:43 AM   #50
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by pops333
I agree, kind of.

Undertow is groovier, and a better metal CD.

Lateralus is a better art *** drug user CD.
Agree.
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Old 03-21-2005, 01:09 AM   #51
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Of all the cd's I have heard, this one is the farthest from forced. The thing that I love most about Lateralus, is that half of the time I hear only the music, I get caught up in the beautiful sounds eminating from the speakers. The drumming is utterly amazing. It totaly mesmerizes me. It sucks me into this sense of just being. Since I bought Lateralus, I constantly have it close at hand. It is a constant in my car and in my house. I will agree that Lateralus doesn't climax the way the others do, but in my opinon, that makes it even better. I love the thought of almost reaching the climax, just to slow things down, so that eventually the climax is almost more than you can handle. So maybe, just maybe, the next cd is the true climax to Lateralus. And if it is, I can only imagine the explosion it must be.
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Old 04-14-2005, 01:05 AM   #52
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Long time since I've posted... but, LISTEN TO THE BASS!

Crank it if you have to; it rocks! If that doesn't get you feeling the climaxes or changes than nothing will because you are a heartless, soul-less human being (if human is even the descriptive term).

The harshness is involuntarilly intentional.

-D
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:44 PM   #53
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Your Post: long winded, Ignorant, Dosent Deliver
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Old 04-19-2005, 01:48 PM   #54
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

In interviews, the band always says "It's all about the music", and in their admirable media-based anonymity, I feel they do a great job of keeping the media focus off themselves - and onto the music.

However, when I hear all about and discover these "Easter Eggs" and hidden messages in the songs, I start to wonder if perhaps some of the creational focus has been taken off the music in order to include these "features". Don't get me wrong, I'm awed and fascinated by the band's ability to lace their music with these allusions and inspirations, but sometimes I also wonder if maybe the music (or maybe the time between albums) is suffering in the band's attempt to cater to these secrets.

But I also sympathize (as much as I can) with the band's psychological needs as well. They have been making music for a very long time, and recycling the same tricks and messages over and over is neither profitable nor rewarding. A talented and revolutionary band like TOOL needs to constantly evolve and reinvent itself; the fans expect it. Not all change works out or can be appreciated by every listener, and many people are very resentful of change. Lots of people (myself included sometimes) wish there could be another angry (not hateful) and rather sarcastic album like Aenima that was charged with this kind of emotion, but that may no longer be possible for the band. Plus, I don't want to listen to the same songs again anyway. If I want Aenima or Undertow, I can go listen to Aenima or Undertow- and I often do. My point is that there is a lot of outside (and inside) pressure for TOOL to constantly change, with a silky smooth transition and that just isn't always possible.

That's why whenever I listen to a new song or see a new movie, I never allow myself to see only negative aspects about it. I sit down with a salt shaker and look for something, anything that I can enjoy or get something out of. Taken this way, I have greatly enjoyed Lateralus and seem to find something new to enjoy every time I listen to it. Sometimes that thing is an Easter Egg, and sometimes it's conventional music. The depth that a work of art provides its viewers/listeners to exist at is what makes it a life-changer or a waste of time. Secret messages add to that depth, and some choose to take advantage of it, while others just want music.

In conclusion, I have great faith in the brilliance and passion of TOOL's members to continue to make great music that exists on multiple levels. They are the artists - I'm just the viewer, so if there is something I don't particularly like: I just won't listen to it or perhaps will try to look at it in a different light. Besides, you can't deny that Lateralus /does/ have its good points... Just the other day I almost hit a highway median because I got so into the part of Schism where it repeats "I know the pieces fit" that I had closed my eyes. Thanks for reading this, if you did. And good post, by the way. Constructive criticism and people who can take it is essential for progression. Peace~

Last edited by JeffGirard; 04-19-2005 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 04-20-2005, 05:03 AM   #55
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffGirard
In interviews, the band always says "It's all about the music", and in their admirable media-based anonymity, I feel they do a great job of keeping the media focus off themselves - and onto the music.

However, when I hear all about and discover these "Easter Eggs" and hidden messages in the songs, I start to wonder if perhaps some of the creational focus has been taken off the music in order to include these "features". Don't get me wrong, I'm awed and fascinated by the band's ability to lace their music with these allusions and inspirations, but sometimes I also wonder if maybe the music (or maybe the time between albums) is suffering in the band's attempt to cater to these secrets.

But I also sympathize (as much as I can) with the band's psychological needs as well. They have been making music for a very long time, and recycling the same tricks and messages over and over is neither profitable nor rewarding. A talented and revolutionary band like TOOL needs to constantly evolve and reinvent itself; the fans expect it. Not all change works out or can be appreciated by every listener, and many people are very resentful of change. Lots of people (myself included sometimes) wish there could be another angry (not hateful) and rather sarcastic album like Aenima that was charged with this kind of emotion, but that may no longer be possible for the band. Plus, I don't want to listen to the same songs again anyway. If I want Aenima or Undertow, I can go listen to Aenima or Undertow- and I often do. My point is that there is a lot of outside (and inside) pressure for TOOL to constantly change, with a silky smooth transition and that just isn't always possible.

That's why whenever I listen to a new song or see a new movie, I never allow myself to see only negative aspects about it. I sit down with a salt shaker and look for something, anything that I can enjoy or get something out of. Taken this way, I have greatly enjoyed Lateralus and seem to find something new to enjoy every time I listen to it. Sometimes that thing is an Easter Egg, and sometimes it's conventional music. The depth that a work of art provides its viewers/listeners to exist at is what makes it a life-changer or a waste of time. Secret messages add to that depth, and some choose to take advantage of it, while others just want music.

In conclusion, I have great faith in the brilliance and passion of TOOL's members to continue to make great music that exists on multiple levels. They are the artists - I'm just the viewer, so if there is something I don't particularly like: I just won't listen to it or perhaps will try to look at it in a different light. Besides, you can't deny that Lateralus /does/ have its good points... Just the other day I almost hit a highway median because I got so into the part of Schism where it repeats "I know the pieces fit" that I had closed my eyes. Thanks for reading this, if you did. And good post, by the way. Constructive criticism and people who can take it is essential for progression. Peace~
You really showed some key aspects of Tool, the fact that they have since Opiate have been chnging their music every album...its cool to see how a band can change their style so much in the course of 15 years and u can still say when u hear one of their songs on the radio..."hey, thats tool!!" its also great how they dont have to rely on the media to sell their image like most bands around right now... the message with tool is to listen to the music and not buy their albums just because u think one of the band members is cool.... i also had one problem with what u said in the begining about how it takes them so long with their albums now.... you didnt look at what makes it impossible for the band to release albums soo fast.. and that is A Perfect Circle... i wouldnt want to write music for ne band when im in the middle of writing/touring with another... and also you have to take in consideration the fact that they aways are changing their style sometimes its hard to come up with new material that is good and isnt rushed to make a deadline... so it might take them a little bit more time but i dont think that the messages they try to come uo with takes a few months.. what i do like and what i respect you for is that you will sit down with anything new and find something goodin it even if it is bad....<not saying any of the tool albums are bad:> but its really cool... well there u have it my constructive critiscism... dont take offesne im not tryin to start a fight.... oh and dont kill urself over tool:> anyway im off to be bored in cyberspace.... Happy Days
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Old 04-20-2005, 11:38 PM   #56
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Re: Lateralus: Contrived, excessive, boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by triad636
i also had one problem with what u said in the begining about how it takes them so long with their albums now.... you didnt look at what makes it impossible for the band to release albums soo fast.. and that is A Perfect Circle... i wouldnt want to write music for ne band when im in the middle of writing/touring with another... and also you have to take in consideration the fact that they aways are changing their style sometimes its hard to come up with new material that is good and isnt rushed to make a deadline... so it might take them a little bit more time but i dont think that the messages they try to come uo with takes a few months..
Thanks for the response, I enjoyed reading it. I guess I got across the wrong impression about the time between albums. It's true that I wish it wasn't so long, because I love the music so much, but I also understand why it takes so long - like you said. I think I also tried to make that same point, but apparently unsuccessfully. See ya.
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