well, first of all i start by commending your effeorts, the latin was a good guess, if not educated. so were finding the symbols in the periodic tables and such.
But the only true connection i have found between you research and mine is sulfur. from my research i am under the inmpression that there are seven different metels to be found within the secrets of maynards words... "as below, so above " refers to the ascending and descending to heaven and back, but even that is metaphorical. the "above" is refering to astrology, and "below" is alchemly.
To understand this you need to understand them both.
In alchemy there is seven metals to be worked with
In astrology 7 planets.
Can anyone guess what there are seven of in us?
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
V isita "Visit"
I nteriora the "interior"
T errae "of the earth;"
R ectificando "in rectifying,"
I nvenies "discover"
O ccultum "the hidden"
L apidem "stone."
I'll let you guys play around for a bit and looks for the endless simularities between Maynards work and this.
So now you can see why i believe he is speking in the pwocess of creating templar wine for this very process... :)
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
also looking at the cover found some interesting facts too...
acording to the site above there are seven points on the body named chakra's. these are
Heart, brow(forehead), crown, navel, sacral, throat and the base....now then. the infinate eye (as what i think it's called is placed on 3 on these chakras so far of what i can see, on the front of the lateralus cover (assuming base is the centre point of the chest,). then again it could be the heart though.
again another hunch in meaings but it's too close to be coinidental hmmm?.
Of coarse this being all coincidental, seeing as real reasons behind pictures come from the artist (guess who?) making maynard not the one to balme for this one. i believe thought if we saw the rest of the man on the front cover you would be sure to find more "chakras" in there places...
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
and whats tabula. tabula is a sinch song. singing about some thing we carnt see.
sorry a lil off track. but what do they mean?
anyway. just a lil observation dus the number 9 have any thing to do with this. there is nine letters in lateralus, there is 9 fire eyes on the skin cover on the left side. and lateralis is number 9 song on the cd?
Oil of vitriol is a name for various sulfates. One of the 7 achemial ingredients. Along with mercury and salt, sulfur is one of the main ingredients. Was sulfur the soul? Or spirit? No, soul, mercury was the spirit and salt the body.
As for Solve et Coagula, from one aspect, it is a simple achemial meditation. Stemming from the destruction/reconstruction theory. I guess it sounds like a clensing, focusing meditation. Prepearation.
Ummm...Lateralus comes from latin...it means roughly...being on or to the side, away from the midline...
My handy dandy dictionary defines it as...Of or constituting a change within an organization or a hierarchy to a position at a similar level, as in salary or responsibility, to the one being left: made a lateral move within the company...
... Linguistics Of, relating to, or being a sound produced by breath passing along one or both sides of the tongue. ...
Saturn is one of the branches on the tree of life, known also as "Binah" acording to this page. it's in the top left corner just below the middle top branch....see for yourself
it's a small picutre with ten points on it(latin in each point).
Now i know this is from the song "the grudge" but bear with me, it all connects.
now for saturn to "ascend", this means it would rise to keter if going from the diagram.
what this means, i have know idea really, but they are too simular to be ignored.
oh and BTW Solve et Coagula means to:
Solve: dissolve, separate, break down and analyze.
et: join the two steps back together.
Coagula: synthezise the purified parts.
Another part i found similar was the colors he describes seeing in his "infancy".
Black then white are all i see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.
now agin from the emerald tablet
The first signifieth gold, is intentionally YELLOW.
The second for fair WHITE silver.
The third, Mercurius, is likewise grey.
The fourth for tin, is heaven-blue.
The fifth for iron, is blood-RED.
The sixth for copper, is true green.
The seventh for lead, is BLACK as coal.
The first word is Visita and is attributed to the Sun. This is the heart chakra.
The second word is Interiora and is attributed to the Moon. This is the brow chakra.
The third word is Terrae and is attributed to Mercury. This is the crown chakra.
The fourth word is Rectificando and is attributed to Jupiter. This is the navel chakra.
The fifth word is Invenies and is attributed to Mars. This is the sacral chakra.
The sixth word is Occultum and is attributed to Venus. This is the throat chakra.
The seventh word is Lapidem and is attributed to saturn. This is the base chakra.
Now, Lapidem was latin for "stone" andis attributed to saturn. Saturn ascends could have some relation to a stone as black as coal ascending to something...
this is the part where i go crosseyed :/
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
Originally posted by axe4moe
The first signifieth gold, is intentionally YELLOW.
The second for fair WHITE silver.
The third, Mercurius, is likewise grey.
The fourth for tin, is heaven-blue.
The fifth for iron, is blood-RED.
The sixth for copper, is true green.
The seventh for lead, is BLACK as coal.
Just a side note...gold is yellow. Silver ..whiteish. Mercury grey. Iron has red/orange qualities under the right conditions. Copper obviously is green. Lead leaves black residue.
Does anyone know if tin has any situation where it has blue reaction? eg, like copper being green?
On another point. I keep coming back to the spiral. The Fibonacci thing. I think of ...wait for my brilliant spelling... I think of the coreolous effect. For those who don't recognise my word, I mean the way the water goes down the drain. In a spiral. And thanks to the Simpsons, we should all know that the water goes dfferent directions in the north and south hemispheres. seperate and reunite.
Last edited by LuisCarruthers; 05-07-2003 at 05:40 PM..
ok, Saturn and moon - infancy. Looking to the future? Saturn comes past every 29 years, and it is like the end of childhood. Is the moon the father? Because it sounds like someone is looking to their future, questioning the man he will be, and the one he came from. Hmm. Moon= feelings, emotions. Saturn deals with reality, who we are. Our limits and powers. Sun is our core. Mars is our drive and ambition. As a child could he see his path? Mars reaching out to me? Lets me see?
I don't know where I am going with this. Just finding more jigsaw pieces.
Originally posted by axe4moe
[B]"Saturn Ascends, the one the ten"
Saturn is one of the branches on the tree of life, known also as "Binah" acording to this page. it's in the top left corner just below the middle top branch....see for yourself
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. The words on the diagram (Visita interiora Terrae Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem) are the same ones that appear on the second page of Danny Carey's website (http://www.dannycarey.org/page2.html).
__________________ ``Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.`` - Joseph Stalin
i just like to say firstly that this development you guys have made on this is excelent ive been visiting this thread for over 2 months just seeing what developments have been made.
but just a random thought... the fibonacci sqeuence i found very interesting when relating it to maynards lyrics and just tool artwork in general
A) in the track lateralus towards the end maynard says
"I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going..."
this to me just is full of ponderable things which i could blab about for a very long time but ill try and keep it short - ish.
firstly "whatever will biwilder me" it is sounding to me like maynard is setting us the listeners the intulectuals *haha* a chalenge to actually think about what he means and by god it is a hard task!
and maybe the following our will and "wind" we may just go etc could be related to alchemy im not really clued up on it too much... although i am aware of the pentagonal geographical referances made earlier in this thread, and the emerald tablet which is referd to
but now im just blabbing etc so ill take a different angle
maybe maynard is bieng ovbiously literal and just asking us as human biengs to be more free thinking and true to ourselfs as he has made points of saying in songs before such as things like third eye and hooker, to spiral out maybe a metaphor to grow and to expand not only our physical state but our mental bieng? (but come on lets face it maynard having a simple meaning... i doubt that) :D
another random idea is the number 9, it seems to be very important as said many times before but i just noticed that there are nine focal points on the "emerald tablet" and also the greek diagram possibly used to simmulate/understand its meaning "Azoth of the Philosophers" if that adds anything at all
read this... http://www.alchemylab.com/azoth.htm
if youve not already seen it
anyway back to the fibonacci! i also noticed that the artwork in the lateralus album sleve fits into the sequence... well not the charecter the spiraling paterns and the white pentagram surrounding his head seem to fit with this sequence
HEY WAIT...maybe even the musical structure fits into this sequence but now im just talking poo but they could make it work :P
oh yea something else i just rememberd on the disc itself whats that really small word say it looks like "nelor" or something i have no idea what it means or what language or gliphs it is using
but im going to cut off my random blab now so other people can talk... ive got alot more to say but ill save that for someother time, ive only started my arguements to get other peoples minds working of my thoughts... so if people read this and get a idea... post it and one day the world will understand tool!
or how to make a compound out of 5 random elements or how to turn lead into gold or how to find king solomans temple or however many other ideas were well ill let you all keep thinking
p.s i like the tabula ideas and chakera ideas they seem to fit if you look on the parabola video the lotus flowers and things seem to simulate the "blossoming" of chakera... just a thought
Originally posted by bullet proof I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. The words on the diagram (Visita interiora Terrae Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem) are the same ones that appear on the second page of Danny Carey's website (http://www.dannycarey.org/page2.html).
THAT is very observant!
i must say well done for that, even after you telling me and me looking at it the words are barley visable
ok time to finish up on my over all details to what i think the bands lyrics mean:
if anyone has read the faq on this site, you might have realized that the song Lateralus has an off beat to it. what the hell i'll post it anyway:
** Why can't I mosh to "Lateralus" correctly?
Unlike most songs, which stay in one time signature for at least two measures, track 9 on this album features a measure of nine beats, a measure of eight, then a measure of seven, repeating. This FAQ is not going to teach you how to count rhythms, but that will at least get you on your way.
This may have no connection to what we are talking about, but the fact that Danny Carey changes the beat pattern for this song could mean something symbolic to himself. Therefore it is in my best knowledge that this song could in fact have some thing to do with his intrests in alchemy.
As said before, alchemy can only exist when all three vessels of consciesness (physical, mental and spiritual) workin in one to create ONE. It is also said you can make gold from these steps, but it also to is said that you can become a whole being that is ONE in itsself (don't ask me what the hell that means cause i don't really know). My best guess is maynard is singing throughout the whole album about each step of process we must go through for this outcome. whether he is talking about making gold, becoming a transcended being or what not is out of our reach to grasp.
What i have found though lyrically is that he has taken inspiration from the emerald tablet and it's teaching of alchemy and made a cd out of it. End of story for me really.....to question further without an answer from the man himself would be percieved as grasping truth from our own opinions, which varies as we have seen from this thread.
Another exempt from the toolshed from the toolshed faq:
"** Why are "Disposition", "Reflection", and "Triad" all linked together on the back cover?
They were originally all conceived as one song, but ultimately broke into three separate tracks. They never had any collective title, however. "
THREE songs, ment to be linked together. these songs are all different sounding but all linked. how so i believe, is that they all represent each state of consciesnes (physical, mental and spiritual).
Anyway it's all food for thought as they say...... :)
P.S. just found a book written by Aleister Crowley. with much the same pictures right through it as the ones on the emerald tablet website.
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
I did some work and found that the elements La and Lu do not bond molecularly... or is is ionicly? either way. The ones that i foudn would bond the easiest are Te, Ra, and S. When making a structure for this, I found that the group numbers of these are 4, 2, and 6. Rearranged we get 4, 6, and 2, or 46 & 6 (a theory of evolution). Possible AEnima reference? who knows, but when making the structure I had to add 4 hydrogens for balancing purposes. I wish I had payed more atention in chemistry.
Try adding up the atomic weights, the atomic numbers, the "gram" mass, etc etc. Maybe we'll find something out.
__________________ "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!"
Originally posted by Kholdfire I did some work and found that the elements La and Lu do not bond molecularly... or is is ionicly? either way. The ones that i foudn would bond the easiest are Te, Ra, and S. When making a structure for this, I found that the group numbers of these are 4, 2, and 6. Rearranged we get 4, 6, and 2, or 46 & 6 (a theory of evolution). Possible AEnima reference? who knows, but when making the structure I had to add 4 hydrogens for balancing purposes. I wish I had payed more atention in chemistry.
Try adding up the atomic weights, the atomic numbers, the "gram" mass, etc etc. Maybe we'll find something out.
Although I originally believed in and thought this theory to be
interesting, I've more recently been lead to believe that Maynard wasn't actually talking about elements and whatnot. I think he was trying to hint at the fact that Lateralus, as a whole, must be broken down into parts to be understood. Or maybe that we should be looking for patterns with the way he sings certain things & syllables (example- when the song Lateralus is broken down into how he sings them, it forms a Fibonacci sequence:
black (1)
then (1)
white are (2)
all i see (3)
in my infancy (5)
red and yellow then came to be (8)
reaching out to me (5)
lets me see (3)
[ Also, the way the count goes up and down also suggests a parabola of some kind. ])
Just my thoughts on the subject, sorry if they're a bit unclear.
__________________ ``Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.`` - Joseph Stalin
75 = abac (aw - bas) = a primitive root; to fodder - fatted, stalled
52 = abiyshay (ab-ee-shah'ee) father of a gift, 'generous', abishai = an isrealite
88 = obth = (o - both) = plural of owb, water skins, Oboth, a place in the desert
71 = abanah = (ab-aw-naw) = perhaps feminine of 'eben' with the article inserted; stone of help; eben-ha-ezer, a place in palestine
16 = ebeh (ay-beh) = from 'abah' in the sense of bending toward; the papyrus -- swift.
71+16=87= abram = contracted from 'abiyram', high father; Abram, the original name of Abraham, Abram.
perhaps this can be connected in some way
humble generous Oboth stone of help bend towards??? i dunno, i'm not sure how the grammar works or how such sentences can be flipped around. anyone come up with anything else from this link or data?
i also found a greek one on there, i gathered from it loosely that it went something like this
75 52 88 (71+16)87 'how it appears on the album cover'
Strive towards ignorance permanantly and completely
perhaps leaping towards death in this state, complete ignorance lies in death only or perhaps drugs of some sort... i thought that greek translation was quite interesting
Of all the far out theories so far suggested, I'd say this one has the most credibility. You guys made an admirable attempt with the whole alchemy thing. That took a lot of workand research. But I think you just got off on a tangent that wasn't really worth going out on. But who knows? I could be wrong. Any or all of us could be wrong.
When I see the word "Lateralus" broken into "La Te Ra Lu S" it just reminds me of language. I'm not sure about all the adding of numbers and such though. Remember, somebody came up with the name. Supposing it was Maynard (which it easily could not be), can you imagine him sitting down in front of a computer with a stack of books next to him doing all these crazy calculations? I don't think he or anybody else would put that much work into it. That's why I think that when they got the name, they didn't have to do so much work. Meaning, he didn't go through all of this. It was already together or at least part way. Which means, the answer is out there somewhere and it isn't impossible to find.
All this is assuming that there in fact is some secret message behind Lateralus. They've stated in interviews that it simply means Lateral Thinking. Don't count that out of the picture. I can just imagine the four of them reading all this and just laughing their asses off because they just came up with the word off the top of their heads.
Anything is possible though. I can see "ignorance is bliss" being a theme in the CD. Tool deals so much in human emotions that are difficult to talk about. They dig so far in it can be painful. Perhaps they are saying that you should "strive towards ignorance". I think we're all past that point now, but if we were to strive towards it, we would receive some of the benefits ignorance has to offer. Not all of them, but some.
I never thought when i started this thread that it would come anything near this. I was expecting lots of shit talking and critisism instead you accepted my theory and did everything you could to dig deeper into the intellectual makeup of this album. Im inspired by all of your willingness to figure out this puzzle and I know now who the real tool fans are. You are the people who take the music and look deep within for a higher meaning. Not just listening to the lyrics and nodding your head in a commercialy hip dance movement but looking between the lines trying to find meaning.
Thanks again for all your support on this thread and again I never thought my theory would reach this many minds. Hopefully Maynard's seen this.
i think these are actually penis measurements of the band members (in inches), except multiplied by ten..
"the one -> the ten"
so 7.1'' would be maynard.. he must've been using a penis extender since salival,
1.6'' would be maynard's cat
but i'm not sure who the other measurements would belong to.. any ideas?
Of all the far out theories so far suggested, I'd say this one has the most credibility. You guys made an admirable attempt with the whole alchemy thing. That took a lot of workand research. But I think you just got off on a tangent that wasn't really worth going out on. But who knows? I could be wrong. Any or all of us could be wrong.
The most credibility?
to be honest, i think thats statement is un-creditable in itself.
the fact that he got letters and made words out of hebrew to form and answer, states not at all the it has anything to do with ALL the band members views and beliefs.
anyone can grab a fucking word and translate it back to hebrew, half of our language was derrived from it.
fact is, i gave relation from the album and it's band members to give an answer (which myself and alot of others belive).
you have to remember, tools albums take fucking years to make, and to be honest take even longer to comprehend. the least thing you could do is go back to the source of which the music was made (i'm talking about the band members here) and work out what there inspirations are.
ok, now that i've had my little bitch session, i'm going to read on....
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
What the fuck is this? They named the CD Lateralus because the basically means lateral thought. The CD is about reaching enlightenment through communication, selflessness, and thinking for yourself. People who look for theories of quantum mechanics in the CD title are just fucking lame. Tool value the meaning of their music too much to determine their CD title based on the periodic table of elements.
What the fuck is this? They named the CD Lateralus because the basically means lateral thought. The CD is about reaching enlightenment through communication, selflessness, and thinking for yourself. People who look for theories of quantum mechanics in the CD title are just fucking lame. Tool value the meaning of their music too much to determine their CD title based on the periodic table of elements.
I agree entirely (with the periodic table part). like you said it's just a CD title, but as i've stated (and others have found), thier are links with the SONG lateralus, towards mainly alchemy. as bulletproof stated:
Originally posted by bullet proof
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. The words on the diagram (Visita interiora Terrae Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem) are the same ones that appear on the second page of Danny Carey's website (http://www.dannycarey.org/page2.html).
ITS ON THE FUCKING 2ND PAGE OF THE DAMM DRUMMERS WEBSITE!
if you read the rest of my posts about the connections with alchemy with not only this song and others on the album, i'm sure you should see a different perspective my friend
P.S. note that danny's site WAS made around the same time as lateralus, which is slight proof that because it's most recent with the album it's contents may well be connected.
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
Previously someone talked about chakras and their matching colours and planets. Earth, Sun, Mars and Saturn....
I'll try to be as cohesive as i can, i just thought of it, so i may come out a bit confusing...
In the song Lateralus the line "as below so above..." appears.
This line (though slightly changed) also appear in a book by Henry Lincoln (Key To The Sacred Pattern) about the Rennes-le-chateau mystery.
(I don't know much you know about the mystery, but i assume you know the basics)
Henry Lincoln discovers a pentagon in the area of Rennes-le-chateau. The church of Rennes-le-chateau is build in the name of Maria Magdelena. Her symbol was the planet Venus.
Now back to the geometry. Every single planet will in its path at some point reach a position where the Earth the Sun and the planet is on a straight line. Mars, the Sun and Earth does this four times, making a square. Venus however does so five times creating a pentagon....
as above so below, seems to bit the motive of the Rennes-le-chateau pentagon?!
It seems logical to believe that Venus somehow would be a part of this chakra-colour-planet-theory...
Slightly off topic but not....One thing is obvious to me. It's not the answer that is interesting so much as the path to the answer.
I love finding questions, then you find answers that lead you to more questions.
So, instead of looking for the one answer, just enjoy the journey and see where it can take you. See, that is what I love about Tool. They give me things to think about, as do all of you with your theories on what songs mean. Oh and it is nice to see moe back with more details. I like your train of thought...
[QUOTE=polarforsker]
In the song Lateralus the line "as below so above..." appears.
This line (though slightly changed) also appear in a book by Henry Lincoln (Key To The Sacred Pattern) about the Rennes-le-chateau mystery.
QUOTE]
"As above, so below" is the infamous statement spoken by Hermes Trismegistus, aka Thoth the Egyptian diety, whos is also believed to be the medium and originator of alchemy and majickal tradition. This is also related to the pyramids and their Orion, or which is also know as Osiris, configuration, ie as below so above as in the heavens; micro v macro.
This is also related to the initiation and assumption of the Eye of Horus which is central to Lateralus as a body of work.
To anyone who thinks that this is digging too deep, and that Tool has nothing to do with any of this.... i say two things.
1) Is a bad thing to push the envelope on thinking and try to expand our knowledge of this CD? Be it right or wrong, at least we thinking about it... and researching things we otherwise may never do....
2) no one has mentioned the "Elements" T-shirt put out by tool... coincidence? I think not...
Beautiful topic, this is the kind of board that really makes you realize once again, the Tool fan intelligence.
I just dont think this kinda stuff would show up on a Good charlotte board!
Don't look at stuff that strays too far from the SONG. The song Lateralus is what will give us clues. Look to the fibonacci sequence and the golden spiral and whatnot. Also the number 987 might have some serious involvment in the whole deal. Try and find a relation between 987 and the atomic number of the elements. If i didn't have homework, I'd do it.
would it be possible that something tool puts out COULD be taken for face value? you are all reading way too into this! maynard said that this album is all about lateral thinking. PERHAPS, JUST MAYBE, lateralus is just a spin off of the word lateral! i'm not sure, maybe i am just insane and too shallow to see the hidden meaning, but maybe not everything they do is that deep. i'm not saying it is shallow, in no sense is it shallow, but perhaps we should focus on other things than where the title for a song originated. i highly doubt maynard would want people to focus on this.
Don't stop thinking, but don't look too hard for things that will get you nowhere.
PERHAPS, JUST MAYBE, lateralus is just a spin off of the word lateral!.
yah ok dummy. your such a *** eating jew sloper. Why don't you go and cut off the tail end of a banana feed it to your grandmothers cat, wait till it pukes, scrape it up, mail it to yourself in an old shoebox, and when you open it up you can say, "hey I'm a ***." yah thats what I thought, ***. you pencil-shaved, gascap trodden, overly congugated, appalachian husk farming linear trouble pastry slap off donkey tennis hair stylist lawnmower poolhall inspecter. Thats what I think about you.
..............why do the best threads attract the most number of retards :(. there must be some mathematical equation for this reoccuring attractiveness to stupidity.....
although Etamina's on the mark, it still doesn't help. It's true howw you say the CD is about lateral thinking, but i belive thats just the tip of the iceburg so to speak.
there's many ways we can interpret it
from our our thoughts
thoughts of A band member
thoughts from all the band members
whether or not maynard said it's about lateral think TO HIM is a different kettle of fish, seeing as there is another 3 band members.
__________________ "Every girls two drinks away from being lesbian MOE!! LETS PARTY!!" --Byron Wilson
Saturn then moon are all i see in my infancy.
Mars and Sun then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.
Does anyone know anything about astrology? cause i'm stuck here....
okay, saturn represents base urges and the element of survival, and i've read that saturn represents the base chakra, found at the base of the spine...this basically symbolizes survival. think for a second...it seems that all babies can do is survive. if there was a button that blew up half the earth whenever it were pressed but the infant was fed, it would not have a guilty conscience about it. it would survive, at any cost. the moon is a symbol of things feminine and the subconscious, both things clearly involved intricately with infancy.
mars is the planet of battle, masculinity, et cetera. also power and the realization and understanding of power. this comes after infancy. the sun is solely character. i hope i've helped
Someone I know had mentioned, in relation to Lateralus, that the planets had some correlation with certain colors (ROY G BIV). I'm not sure if this has anything at all to do with this hunt , but check out http://srath.com/lesson/creation_1.htm and see if it makes any sense to you. The site discusses the correlation between colors, planets, and chakras.
I'm not sure how far off the mark this is, but remember what color Danny writes in? Purple. He'll only sign things in purple. While he may be doing this just to mess with people, he has said that the purple is the combination of the red blood of Mars with the royal blue of Jupiter).
Digging further, if you read the August 2003 newsletter at toolband.com (http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/), you can find the following snippet of an interview with Danny:
A: You're not reading it right. What you think is an A is actually a P (no doubt scrawled in imperial purple - which combines the blood of Mars with the royal blue of Jupiter). It's PAIMON, the Ninth Spirit of the Order of the Goetia, said to be "a Great King who appears in the form of a man sitting upon a dromedary with a glorious crown upon his head." Paimon can teach all Art and Sciences and other secret things (including, presumably, what's in every American diner's favorite hamburger garish). For those who are interested, Crowley's vellum copy of his and S.L. MacGregor MatherÕs edition of the Book of the Goetia of Solomon the King is decorated with a red pen-and-ink drawing of Crowley "invoking"? the demon Paimon. This has been reproduced in the rare 'First Impressions' facsimile edition published in 1993.
And thus, you have a farfetched connection with the number nine.
__________________ ``Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.`` - Joseph Stalin
"
now agin from the emerald tablet
The first signifieth gold, is intentionally YELLOW.
The second for fair WHITE silver.
The third, Mercurius, is likewise grey.
The fourth for tin, is heaven-blue.
The fifth for iron, is blood-RED.
The sixth for copper, is true green.
The seventh for lead, is BLACK as coal.
The Alchemical Prayer:
"Purge the horrible darknesses of our mind, light a light for our senses."
First of all, I think that Tool has done just that.
For those of you still interested in the alchemy thing, as I was perussing throught a book on matter, I noticed a brief history of alchemy. This is what I have found:
1. Alchemists two main goals were to transmute gold from baser metals, and to search for or create the philosipher's stone(granting imortality)
2. The actuall methods used by alchemists were shrouded in secrecy and symbolism, leaving them unintelligible to the uninitiated.
3. Alchemist believed that when a metal is heated and maelted its spirit, symbolized by a white dove, erupts from the chared body. Put into a solution, the blackend metalis symbolized by a toad. The dove going back into the solution heralds the birth of a nobler substance, hopefully gold.
4. the Sun is the symbold for gold
the moon is the symbol for silver
5. In depictions of the proces for creating the philosepher's stone, the substance being manipulated frepuently appeared as a baby in a flask.
Ok, it's a bit random. Do with it what you will, if you do anything with it at all.
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
Don't look at stuff that strays too far from the SONG. The song Lateralus is what will give us clues. Look to the fibonacci sequence and the golden spiral and whatnot. Also the number 987 might have some serious involvment in the whole deal. Try and find a relation between 987 and the atomic number of the elements. If i didn't have homework, I'd do it.
987 is the 16th Fibonachi #. S=16. probably is coincidence.
First time I've seen this thread. Pretty impressive.
I do not wish to intrude, but I find this topic very interesting indeed. I was reading this and thinking about it last night when my freind came to the door in a very elaborate LSD thought-trip. We talked about it extensivley, and he came up with a very interesting theory:
"Ya know, Maynard is really intelligent, and alot of the songs are very spiritually and intellectually in-depth." He crossed his arms over his chest, stared hard at the floor, and said "What if Maynard is the next Siddartha?"
Personally, being a believer in the Buddhist way, I actually found this idea very interesting. But it is very difficult to distance the significance of the music, and the fact that it's "just music". Because it's not JUST music to me.
Of all the far out theories so far suggested, I'd say this one has the most credibility. You guys made an admirable attempt with the whole alchemy thing. That took a lot of workand research. But I think you just got off on a tangent that wasn't really worth going out on. But who knows? I could be wrong. Any or all of us could be wrong.
When I see the word "Lateralus" broken into "La Te Ra Lu S" it just reminds me of language. I'm not sure about all the adding of numbers and such though. Remember, somebody came up with the name. Supposing it was Maynard (which it easily could not be), can you imagine him sitting down in front of a computer with a stack of books next to him doing all these crazy calculations? I don't think he or anybody else would put that much work into it. That's why I think that when they got the name, they didn't have to do so much work. Meaning, he didn't go through all of this. It was already together or at least part way. Which means, the answer is out there somewhere and it isn't impossible to find.
All this is assuming that there in fact is some secret message behind Lateralus. They've stated in interviews that it simply means Lateral Thinking. Don't count that out of the picture. I can just imagine the four of them reading all this and just laughing their asses off because they just came up with the word off the top of their heads.
Anything is possible though. I can see "ignorance is bliss" being a theme in the CD. Tool deals so much in human emotions that are difficult to talk about. They dig so far in it can be painful. Perhaps they are saying that you should "strive towards ignorance". I think we're all past that point now, but if we were to strive towards it, we would receive some of the benefits ignorance has to offer. Not all of them, but some.
Anything is possible.
lateral-us, as in lateral-them. what if they're just saying "we are lateral." that would definitely be a 'lateral' way of saying it... that idea puts a new light on the alternate spelling lateral-is found on earlier copies. food for thought. also, one of, if not the only benefit of ignorance (or maybe just a letting go of the truly extraenous) is that your head doesn't hurt from overthinking about every little nuance... synchronicity is a bitch. if indeed there is some 'secret' hidden message, then it's not to be 'discovered' anyway, for those instructions are for the 'initiates' who know what they're looking for... unless many of you are avid crowley fans/students. anyone ever noticed that all of their "f*ck you" songs have gone in order? jerk-off#5, swampsong#6, hooker..#7, ticks&leeches#8. "suck me dry." i wonder what happens when they hit ten... i've been an 'in-depth' tool fan for many years, digging and digging... and it has personally changed me, although i'm not sure if has been for the better or the worst. why? (as if you might care) i've done the drugs, read the books, listened oh so carefully to every whisper and sigh... why? what's the point? if 'ænima' was a trip (i kind of like the overt lsd insinuation), then lateralus is more like hindsight mixed with realization of consequences in the 'real' world when (conceptual character) was en route. consequences of going too deep in. some things are good (the patience) and some bad (the schisms), but all things are effects of the ænima administered... read too much Jung, do too many hallucinogens, and listen to ænima way too much and closely all at the same time and you might get the same (negative?) side effects with the capacity for future mutation... most all great, modern conceptual artists have had a conceptual character; an entity born in and of their music. it is truly the spawned child of all the band's members, and it is alive. outside sources of art and literature are/can be very useful to understanding how the ideology of each member affects the whole, god knows i've read and used my fair share of homework, but they are by no means definitive of the true voice of the music. it is alive and will speak to you, just listen to hear all you need to hear. the true 'magic' of/in their music is just how very much alive it is, by whatever means...
__________________ "A humanist is anyone who rejects the attempt to describe or account for man wholly on the basis of physics, chemistry or animal behaviour." ~Joseph R. Krutch
