I was looking at the alex grey website, studying the sacred mirrors when a thought weasled its way into my mind.
This is in its rough stages of theory and im only throwing out an idea. On one of the mirrors there was a PERIODIC TABLE OF ELEMENTS and I knew that most elements contained mostly to letter abbreviations so I pulled out my Chemistry book and looked through the table and to my suprise I found each segment of La-te-ra-lu-s fit into the element abbreviations.
Now so far ive been leaning towards the idea of perhaps the begginge or when you first get the album its broken up La-Te-Ra-Lu-S and towards the end of the album its spelled lateralus all with all the letters formed together as if the elements joined together and the songs afterwords could perhaps be the proggression or even regression of the combination of the elements.
Im not sure of the compound that it makes up, chemistry is not my strongest point but if we all work on this im sure we can figure out something. Maynard says he wants people to use there minds more and think so lets get crackin
la = lanthanum
te = tellurium
ra = radium
lu = lutetium
s = sulfur or (sulphur)
ok well they all are elements, now is it possible anyone can get their hands on these, i doubt it, if so that would be cool, watch you mix it and a 3d puff of gas forms into maynards head
Me and a friend of mind have decided to get together tonight and do some research. He's a really smart guy so hopefully we will be able to figure something out. Ive figured out that La & Te make a compound but thats as far as ive gotten so far. The weird thing about the LaTe compound is that the molecular structure or model resembles a diagram ive seen somewhere that related to tool perhaps even the lotus but im not exactly sure with desing it resembled. I will look into it.
If anyone else finds anything make sure to post it.
I can talk to my Chem. teacher about this. But if one were to create this substance... i think that they would find that there is insufficient information as to HOW to create it. For instance, what state shoudl the elements be put into Gas liquid solid? or how much to use.... i like the idea of the atomic numbers and i will look into what they could be used to mean....... ill keep you updated
Ive found out a couple thinks that could be relavent to this theory. I looked into the meaning of each element and each element derives from a latin word. So far I've found that La or Lanthenum means "to lie beneath" and Te or Tellerium means "earth" so maybe "to lie beneath the earth". I havent found out what the other elements latin definition is but I will look into it.
this is an interesting theory and tool do make references to alchemy in the grudge
Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.
someone should see if these elements are to do with metals and alchemy. i've done a few quick searches for them and added +alchemy and there are a fair few links.
Sorry for the mistaken post above, Maybe when Maynard says Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. If you can do an experiment with any of the elements listed above they should be in liquid form, Let the waters, ( referring to the elements in a liquid state) Kiss (touch) transmutate these leaden grudges into gold ( The outcome of the experiment) Just a thought
I did some research into this very interesting matter last night. Here's what i found out.
1. LA
Lanthanum - based on Greek 'lanthanein' - 'to escape notice' (due to it being undetected in cerium oxide)
Proton Number - 57
Relative Atomic Mass - 139
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)
2. TE
Tellurium - based on Latin 'tellus -uris' - 'earth'
Proton Number - 52
Relative Atomic Mass - 128
(Non-metal - Group 6)
3. RA
Radium - based on Latin 'radius' - 'ray'
Proton Number - 88
Relative Atomic Mass - 226
(Alkali metal - Group 2)
4. LU
Lutetium (Lutecium) - based on Latin 'Lutetia' - ancient name of Paris, France, home of it's original discoverer.
Proton Number - 71
Relative Atomic Mass - 175
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)
5. S
Sulphur (US: Sulfur) - based on Latin 'sulfur; sulp(h)ur'
Proton Number - 16
Relative Atomic Mass - 32
(Non-metal - Group 6)
While looking through the dictionary I found some other interesting pieces of information. 'LA' or 'LAH' is the 6th note of a major scale and the note A in a fixed-doh system. 'TE' or 'TI' is the 7th note of a major scale and the note B in a fixed-doh system. I was unable to find this musical system with the other letters of Lateralus, though I believe the 3rd one is 'RE.'
purely based on my education in the subject area of chemistry, i would say no such compound exists, and any attempt to create such a compound would probably result in radiation poisoning or cancer, as it did madame curie, who discovered radium.
the idea of a sequence of numbers i find far more likely. now we just need to figure out what 75-52-88-71-16 means.
do you think Latetia is anywhere near Rennes-le-chateau? . . . (see any TOOLband.com newsletter or dannycarey.org) . . .
there could be some significance there . . .
and what about the literal translation? . . . doesnt it come out to be something like, "to be beneath the earths rays something something something?" . . .
Originally posted by aethereddy purely based on my education in the subject area of chemistry, i would say no such compound exists, and any attempt to create such a compound would probably result in radiation poisoning or cancer, as it did madame curie, who discovered radium.
the idea of a sequence of numbers i find far more likely. now we just need to figure out what 75-52-88-71-16 means.
Maybe those numbers are from maynards creditcard :-)
the thing is, that those elements can't just react and form with each other. After taking chemistry a couple semesters ago, i realized that it takes a couple of elements, and they need to be oppositely charged, etc... Lots goes into it, so i'm sure La + Te + Ra + Lu + S can't = anything. But maybe the coefficients of those elements could give us some info.
i also noticed, who cares if this means anything, who here has learned a little more about chemistry then they knew before.
Maybe with the lyrics in the grudge about the water, lead, gold think he's refering to the theory of mixing hydrogen with any other element to get gold. See if theres any way to mix these elements with hydrogen to get gold.
Originally posted by tainednarf1014 See if theres any way to mix these elements with hydrogen to get gold.
hehe they've been trying that for hundreds of years... i dont think it's possible.
And I agree that these elements most likely do no form a compound. You hardly ever see a substance with so many elements of such a wide range. Very cool idea though.
Alkhemical processes are deliberatly masked in symbolism.
Look up things about alchemy and lead, gold, salt, sulphur, etc...they all have different meanings considering you take its interpretation to be something spiritual and not actually practical.
Blair recently said something about a mysterious gas that I think will turn out to be very interesting and perhaps has something to do with what you all have 'discovered', though I doubt it.
I checked these elements out
lanthanum
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery white
Classification: Metallic
Lanthanum is silvery white
The metal reacts directly with elemental carbon, nitrogen, boron, selenium, silicon, phosphorus, sulphur, and with halogens>
tellurium
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery lustrous grey
Classification: Semi-metallic
Crystalline tellurium has a silvery-white appearance, and exhibits a metallic lustre when pure >
RAdium
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: metallic
Classification: Metallic
Pure metallic radium is brilliant white when freshly prepared>
lutetium.
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery white
Classification: Metallic >
sulphur.
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: lemon yellow
Classification: Non-metallic
Sulphur is a pale yellow, odourless, brittle solid, which is insoluble in water but soluble in carbon disulphide. Sulphur is essential to life. >
La, Te, Ra and Lu are all metals. Although they react to a certain extent with each other, the only element that would cause a major change with any of them would be Sulfur, in that it isn't a metal.
Mabe you should look into something like how Sulfur reacts with each of the metals. You might get more compelling or productive results.
Originally posted by crow011 do you think Latetia is anywhere near Rennes-le-chateau? there could be some significance there . . .
and what about the literal translation? . . . doesnt it come out to be something like, "to be beneath the earths rays something something something?" . . .
crow011 . . .
i definitely think it has to do something with what you mentioned, the grandest puzzle of all. if anybody hasnt read the story of the preists deathbed confession, you should, its on dannycarey.org.
Just some snip-its from the story here to further suggest the possible element theory of lateralus. While reading stuff that you guys have posted all of this came to my mind. Maybe this is the alchemic process in which to create gold.
This story takes place in the city Rennes-le-chateau, France.
"The answer may lie in one of the coded parchments (parchment one) allegedly discovered by Sauniere inside a hollow pillar that once supported the ancient altar. By connecting certain controlling devices embedded in the Latin text a similar pentagram can be drawn. This, itself, maybe a clue to the whereabouts of a much larger pentagram laid out over the landscape in the region (Rennes-le-chateau). One that mirrors the celestial Venusian pentacle, reminding us of that favorite phrase of the alchemists, "As above, so Below." It has been suggested by many researchers that the alignments of the pentagonal geometry overlaying the Rennes valley contains the key by which one may unlock a great secret."
"since Asmodeus is believed to be the keeper of secrets and guardian of treasures, in particular that of King Solomon, is Sauniere telling us that discovering the pentagonal geometry in the area is the first step in locating a legendary treasure hidden there, whether material or spiritual?"
"The demon crouched inside the doorway has been identified as Asmodeus (or REX MUNDI to others, the devil of the Cathars). Asmodeus is known as the custodian of secrets and the guardian of hidden treasure. He is also believed to be the builder of Solomon’s Temple. At one time, the frightening statue of the demon held a flaming torch in his hand. This too may be important - the idea of flames. Crouched in a mirror image of the devil is Jesus who is being baptized by John the Baptist with water poured from a silvered cockle-shell. fire and water. Could this be related to some kind of secret alchemical process?"
"Upon his return to Rennes-le Chateau, Sauniere began more ambitious renovations inside the crumbling church, exhuming an ancient Carolingian flagstone from the choir floor which concealed the entrance to a crypt beneath. And there by the glow of a lantern he discerned several shiny objects. Whatever the nature of his discovery was, it was evidently of considerable consequence and importance to someone, for the priest suddenly found himself living in the lap of luxury, spending money on a grand scale."
"Speculation as to the nature of this treasure varies among the numerous investigators and includes the following: that which was stolen from the Temple of Jerusalem, The Ark of the Covenant, The Holy Grail, The lost secrets of alchemy (a formula for turning baser metals into gold, or for turning baser man into a more perfected being), the wealth of the Cathars and Knights Templars, whether of a monetary or spiritual nature, genealogies attesting to the survival of the royal Merovingian bloodline, the tomb and preserved remains of Jesus or the reliquary of some other saint such as Mary Magdalene, catacombs filled with the Lords of old adorned in their glittering finery, a stargate technology for journeying to other heavenly realms, a doorway to another dimension by which one can escape the apocalypse and enter paradise, an enormous geometric temple encoded with information of a high-tech nature, occult manuscripts, tunnels leading to Atlantis, and even the entrance to a cavernous underground base that is/was the home to a race of reptilian extraterrestrial beings."
'"Other researchers have offered other equally-clever interpretations of the stations. In the same Station (Station VI), the cloth held by Veronica to wipe the face of Christ looks very much like a pelican. The pelican has always been an important alchemical symbol because the bird wounds itself (by pecking its breast) in order to feed its young with its own blood.1 Are we therefore looking at an alchemical text, with the various stages of the Great Work openly displayed in the church furnishings for "those with eyes to see?"
1 This misconception that the pelican nourished its offspring with the blood from its own breast may have been based on the fact that the bird regurgitates food stored in its pouch. Nevertheless, it is an alchemical symbol of the Philosopher’s Stone (which, acting as a touchstone, also nourishes its offspring)."'
Can anybody see where I am going with this? If you read the entire story you may get a better feel for what I am trying to say, but this secret of his may be what we are trying to figure out. To me this is somehow all connected to this element theory which may be off by some degrees.
I may insert some more commentary based on my findings.... Any thoughts on what I have dug up?
__________________ Kill a man, and your a murderer.
Kill many, and your a conquerer.
Kill 'em all, and your a god
Last edited by tantric-formula; 02-09-2003 at 08:38 PM..
i read what was going on here and thought it was great, and then it got me thinking... well, yes, lateralus, this got me thinking about lateralis... does this have meanings? is it related at all, et...
this is what i found in the good old dictionaries:
(1)
lateralis
Synonym: lateral, lateral, lateral.
Origin: Latin
(2)
lateralis (lat·er·a·lis) (lat²[schwa]r-a¢lis) [TA] lateral: a term denoting a structure situated farther from the median plane of the body.
(3)
lateralis: of the side
i think for me the 2nd definition, is most appropriate to both song and to album.
on the other hand, and now this is almost completely irrelevant, lateralis is used in the scientific names for many animals, for example:
citellus lateralis
n : common black-striped reddish-brown ground squirrel of western North America; resembles a large chipmunk
now where the above meanings fit into this, i have still not understood... i am hoping someone with more brain cells than me can explain it... however, i think you guys are more on the ball...
Just a random thought, could have no relation whatsoever but what about these elements ionized? I haven't looked into it, it just popped in my head as I was reading the thread, but do any of these elements have significant ionization states? Or any other properties that might help us out here....
Originally posted by crow011 could it be a coincidence that they all weigh 298 k when solid? . . . and the colour thing? . . .
298 K is the temperature that they exist in their standard forms solid.
It's weight (or mass which are often confused) doesn't seem all that relevent because whatever it is we do with this stuff can probably be done with however much we want as long as the quantities are proportional.
I like the idea that the last Element Sulpher is a necessity of life. I think that's a significant piece of the puzzle.
__________________ "Painting a picture, composing an opera, that's just something you do until you find the next willing piece of ass. The minute something better than sex comes along, you call me. Have me paged. For sure, even the worst blow job is better than say, sniffing the best rose...watching the greatest sunset. Hearing children laugh."
-Chuck P, Choke
This is probably the most ineresting thing i've ever read. I wrote down the information that some of you guys mentioned. I'll give it to my chemisry teacher, he is a genius so he will be able to find out all about it. You guys have really latched on to something here, and you should stick with it. Also, off the subject but thats the right amount of numbers for a phone number. Anyone called it?
I would imagine as with many other alchemical thoughts that this is a metiphor for spiritual growth. If we look at the idea that Sulphur is needed for life then we can call it life for this thought experiment.
So we have all these inert metals that in and of themselves are very complex yet are inactive until the element of life is thrown into the mix. Which element was it ...Lanthanum...reacts directly with sulpur...perhaps it is some sort of liason between life and this other quality that the elements possess.
I would tend to think less of the actual 'true' chemical process occuring and more towards the symbolism of numbers and the nature of the word lateralus itself. Lateral to the side and us of course being US (u and me) we are besides ourselves giving an objective vision...both within and without if indeed all are one.
75-52-88-71-16 ....I'd check into the numbers themselves and what they coorespond to. I know the number 16 COULD be the 16th path of the septhiroth or key 16 "The tower". But I dont know enough about that to really help out that much. But I would focus on the numerology and the latin roots of the elements to look for meaning and clues.
