I think that the order of tracks is subjective. I do think the tracks are meant to be re-ordered, but maybe we are supposed to re-order them ourselves. If there's one thing that MJK seems to push the most, its that reality is what you make of it:
Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see there is so much more
and beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities.
A plethora of a muliplicity of an infinity of different options are out there guys, why you be lookin' ere?
Does it make me a blasphemous dog for prefering the track order the way it came packaged on the cd? In other words, the final print of the album.
I'm not a math wiz(it was my absolute worst subject in school; I'm terrible at it), and I'm definitely no musician(I don't understand or follow the whole "time signature" spiel), but I do know that what we have here is definitely one of the most illuminating works ever achieved by humans. I don't care if I'm labeled a rabid Tool fanboy, but ever since I discovered them a few years ago, they have basically changed my life.
If I were female, I'd stalk Maynard and force him to father me a child.....Or at least ask for an autograph. No need to go all psycho about it. He is just another human being.
Reminds me of a crazy guy several years ago that was obsessed with Bjork. Fell in love with her, and when he felt she had ignored him, he tried to send her a package that was supposed to explode and disfigure her when she opened it. He also committed suicide, and left a note behind telling the police what he had done. Lucky for them they intercepted the package before she got it.
__________________ "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton
i've heard about this alternate ordering, and also something about the fibonacci sequence and it something to do with the album, so just fucking around the other day i burned the cd in this sequence based on the fibonacci. did the first six obviously in the fibonacci order (1,2,3,5,8,13), then started over with 4 (mantra), then 6 (parabol/parabola). 4 + 6 = 10 (disposition/refl/triad), and leaves lateralus (find the spiral to the end) as the last track. just did this mostly out of boredom, but then later i realized that the three times i saw them live after lateralus came out, they played disp/refl/triad near the end of their set, and then immediately played lateralus to end the show. so......who knows. this is just my take on it though, and all the transitions work just fine.
it's a little weird not hearing schism after mantra, and who knows, this may all be total BS, but i'm gonna keep it in this order for the time being just for a change.
It just so happens that tool was considering naming the song, lateralus, 987 (I think)!
I always thought that possible naming was due to the fact that the songs time signature is 9/4, 8/4, 7/4. I had never actually heard of this Fibonacci sequence until recently, and that kind of pulls things together a little more. I'm not sure which track listing I am going to use yet, but this is some very interesting shit, to be sure.
I have no idea what Pi has to do with any of this, but the whole sacred geometry thing...
coincidence? maybe, but I don't think so.
Phi has a lot more to do with this track reordering than pi
Well when I brought up Pi was referring to those theories that used to float around here about Lateralus synching up to the movie Pi by Darren Aronofsky. It was a weird movie, about some guy who found out the true name of God through numbers... and some people didn't want him to find it. It was kind of interesting.
I did the Holy Gift thing and it eats dick. I got rid of the 2 second gaps when I burned the CD, but apparently you need to delete the silence that's on the actual track first, retarded.
This guy that "discovered" the Holy Gift order, is it just me or is he overanalyzing it a bit. There's nothing wrong with listening to it in any order, I just find it funny that he's going to all this work to justify that his order is how Tool secretly intended it. I'm not trying to sound cliche here, but it's true what Maynard says, "overthinking, overanalyzing seperates the body from the mind."
Actually, I think he was just looking for answers. For a while I thought the new track list was intended, because in certain areas it made a lot of sense. Besides, awhile back Blair posted someones email on the website asking about the alternate track listing, and he didn't shoot it down or anything, all he said was something like 'why do such talented people have so much free time on their hands' or something to that effect.
Does anyone consider Lateralus to be the real opening track on this album? When the subject is real happy, trying to make something new, exploring the possibilities. But then comes Disposition, the wheather changes, the mood changes.. Here comes trouble, the subject focuses on himself, on his ego to be the problem - Reflections. Then silence, Triad. Maybe the pain caused by it is only an illusion (Parabola), the subject doesnt know.. He wants to wait, to be Patient, to see if things work out. But still, cold silence (Mantra) has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion, so the pieces fall apart into a Schism. Ticks and Leeches comes next, the subject is out of his mind, now he focuses on the other piece of the relationship. He finally chooses to let go, to forget the Grudge between the two of them and to go on.
(What i mean by silence is the absence of vocals.)
I didnt try to listen to the album in this order, i kinda thought about it by the theme of each song and the evolution of a relationship..
The order would like 9 10 11 12 6 7 2 3 4 5 8 1, i dont know if it has some kind of special meaning, honestly i didnt think about it.
Well so this is my Lateralus order mega-theory.. Enjoy.
The "Holy Gift" kind of seperated into a "reorder it yourself" type thing, and since we all love creativity here, I'll post my track listing and why I defend it. It's not "right" or "intended," but a lot of spots make sense.
Maynard mentions in an interview that the time signature for the song Lateralus is 9, 8, 7. He also mentions that the numbers 9,8, and 7 are part of the Fibonacci Sequence, a mathmatical equation, which, when drawn out on graph paper shows a spiral.
The lyrics call out "Spiral out... Keep going... Spiral out..."
Cool tie-in? Not quite. Upon further inspection, the syllables which he recites the singluar verse go in the order of the Fibonacci Sequence.
[1] black
[1] then
[2] white are
[3] all I see
[5] in my infancy
[8] red and yellow then came to be
[5] reaching out to me
[3] lets me see
[2] there is
[1] so
[1] much
[2] more and
[3] beckons me
[5] to look through to these
[8] infinite possibilities
[13] as below so above and beyond I imagine
[8] drawn outside the lines of reason
[5] push the envelope
[3] watch it bend
When drawn out, they picture a group of spirals, spiraling out. Set that aside.
I heard that Danny actually plays the Fibonacci Sequence through his drumset. [1,1,2,3,5,8,13]
I also heard that he plays a portion of the Fibonacci Sequence through The Grudge as well. Listen to his Bass kicks between about 1:13 to 1:20 and 6:24 to 6:31 and you'll hear it.
Write the numbers linearly. Parabol/Parabola will be the middle of the spiral, in that 13/2=6.5. The official track listing for the two songs are 6 and 7, and they were meant to be one song.
Take the tracks and re-arrange them according to the linear numbers and spirals.
[6,7,5,8,4,9,3,10,2,11,1,12,13]
You can even edit out the silence with some programs.
Now you have:
Parabol
Parabola
Schism
Ticks and Leeches
Mantra
Lateralus
The Patient
Disposition
Eon Blue Apocolypse
Reflection
The Grudge
Triad
Faaip De Oaid
6+7= 13. One spiral. 5+8=13. Second spiral. 4+9=13. Third spiral. 3+10=13. Fourth spiral. 2+11=13. Fifth spiral. 1+12=13. Sixth spiral. 13=13. Seventh spiral.
7 Spirals.
In the lyrics, I believe "Spiral out" is said seven times.
Coincidence?
Now, Parabol and Parabola were meant to be one track. [Explained by the feedback and the fact that they share the same name, minus an "a".] Dispostion, Reflection, and Triad were meant to be one track [Resolution]. And Eon Blue Apocolypse [EBA] and The Patient are meant to be one track, listed right after another and made of the same feel and strings, notes, whatever. It's obvious they are ment to go together, no matter what track listing you use.
Re-arrange accordingly, elminate white noise if wanted.
"New" track listing:
1. Parabol/a
2. Schism
3. Ticks and Leeches
4. Mantra
5. Lateralus
6. EBA/The Patient
7. Resolution
8. The Grudge
9. Faaip De Oaid
Let me explain why you just did all of this. The entire album makes sense now.
Parabol/a is in Drop B/e tuning, the rest of the album is in Drop D. It was isolated, now it's first. It explains the good things about being in a relationship, "feeling immortal, all this pain is an illusion."
Schism's opening made little sense. [a few chords before going into the main riff] Now, it follows incredibly well with Parabol/a's very soft quick chords at the end. This explains a breakup and is about "survival."
Ticks and Leeches starts with a drum solo, feeding off the drum/bass solo at the end of Schism. T+L is about hating someone to the highest degree.
Mantra is a segue, but now it makes much more sense. T+L mentions "I hope you choke!" Mantra sounds like someone choking.
Lateralus is a new beggining. Doing something to better yourself and find divinity.
EBA/The Patient is about patience and waiting out whatever may come to reach the end. "If there were no rewards to reap, I certainly would have walked away by now." You're going to better yourself and you're going to make it to the end no matter how long it takes or what may come.
Resolution is about getting over a past relationship and getting rid of your narcissism and starting over, with a higher knowledge or understanding of how things work.
The Grudge sounds similar to the end of Resolution, symbolizing a new beggining, ergo the sound of a machine powering up. You've started over. You're getting rid of your grudges. You've turned over a new leaf.
Faaip De Oaid is of course the last track as it doesn't fit, but not a lot of the last tracks of Tool albums fit in, and are meant to get you out of your comfort zone and be disturbing. Just like "The Gaping Lotus Expierence," "Disgustipated," "Third Eye," "Faaip De Oaid," and "Viginti Tres."
Of course this is all in my opinion, and nothing I say is "true," or "right," or "correct," but it's all in my viewpoint. There's no way you can have a 'correct' Tool track listing, it's impossible. The closest you'll get is the official one released from the album, but didn't Tool cite that they had an alternate track listing before release? Not sure...
I also love the idea that the first 7 songs on the original track listing relate to MJK's mother, and I find it disturbing that on a forum of a band that promotes creativity, several people bashed this guy's idea about the album and what he thought it meant. If you don't agree, you can't tell him or anyone else that they are "wrong."
have you noticed that if you play the actual album and program it to this order ^ .....after triad ends instead of playing 2 min. of silence it goes straight to the grudge which i find intresting.
__________________ I live to share what i see around this world.
Not believing in things won't make it happen because you don't believe it will.
Plato wrote long ago that fans are notorious for finding more in a poem than the poet intended. Of course, dealing with the metaphysical issues found in Lateralus, it isn't asking too much to believe that even the artists may be unaware of the powers guiding their craft.
The rumours of a reording began because the band printed a few dozen copies of Lateralius with different effect mixes for friends - bands often having multiple 'mixes' of their songs before release, to see if this or that song sounds better with, for example, crunchier guitar in the second chorus.
All this aside, having read about this "Holy Gift" and its inherent track reordering, we must ask ourselves and these repeated authors of this post two questions (asking not to attack in any way, but) to earnestly discover the validity of these claims:
1) if we are to base the reordering of Lateralus on the visual representation of spirals on the linear arrangement of its tracks, why ignore the visual connections on the back cover of its CD case - 3 little x's connecting Disposition, Reflection, and Triad - the overlapping, flowing trilogy that was intended to be a single song?
2) ignoring 'because it works' as an answer, why position Faiip De Oiad in the middle of the reorder? To argue against it, without the required digital editing I could not hear the Laterals guitars blended into the beginning of Faaip as mentioned.
However, I believe they're at least partially right. Like most worthwhile philosophical texts, Lateralus is meant to challenge us to push past the superficial layers and reach the hidden depths of meaning. At best, we'll see Universial truths and the artists' truest intentions. At worst, we'll miss the mark and merely reveal our own inner, personal truths, having invested and implanted so much of ourselves in the quest - and thus, the revelations.
There IS a reordering that works. The Fibonacci sequence is more important than you realize. And the following reordering is so much simpler than any other suggestion I have seen, and can be done without the use of visual aides or the breaking up of connected tracks:
The numerical wonder of Fibonacci is necessary when deciding the chronology of the album's tracks. Beginning with the Fibonacci numbered tracks, and ending with the non-Fibonacci numbered tracks, Lateralus flows like tears of joy.
Fibonacci Track Order:
Track # 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12
The Patient's gentle vocal exit meanders softly into Schism's early depths - connected by Maynard's voice holding the very note Schism begins with. Schism's drum flurry finale follows with Ticks' beginning tribal beat. After experiencing Schism's ending, my energy is so raised that Parabol - though I do love the song and its partner - is like a whimper when I want a roar. Hence Ticks. After these two blistering tracks, we need a musical rest. Faaip and Mantra provide a break (though I usually skip Track 13... I'm not ready for the voice of God yet...)
Parabol slowly lifts you out of Mantra's calm, while Parabola's sweet guitar outro leads directly into Lateralis' guitar intro. The final 3 are undisturbed, as are the other connected tracks.
This is merely my interpretation. I emailed the toolband.com site, and this suggested reordering was posted (18 Sep 04) with a reply that didn't actually say whether the reordering was right or not... only that it didn't correspond to the band's 'altered mix' cd. And that "whatever floats your boat... works." How true!
Objections? I am interested in your opinions of this interpretation.
All the best, and much love,
~ Dave_Toms
~ Rhythmic_Reflection
