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deuceman's Avatar deuceman
06-07-2006, 03:20 AM
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I have been listening to Opiate and Undertow, and also this bootleg Opium Den album, and it's incredible how the band has evolved from that time. Some of it good, some bad (Submachine will be blowing his load over this).

The songs back then, especially Opium Den and Opiate, are so raw, not clumsy, but not as tight. Maynard's vocals are so passionate, so full of belief in what he is saying. You know, like these guys give a shit and they are putting everything into what they're playing and singing.

On Undertow, again, MJK's vocals are SO different.

Then fast forward to 10,000 Days. The musicianship is so much more advanced, the recording studio so much more professional, MJK's voice is really different.

And yet.....I can't help but feel that it's taken some of the raw human emotion out of the whole thing. Back then they were trying to be discovered, trying to succeed, etc. Now, with 10,000 Days, it's more like they've made it and it seems more like hard work.

Bah, I don't know if anybody will agree / beat me / give me shit. Probably....you're all so cynical and quick to move in like a pack of rabid dogs!
Old 06-07-2006, 03:20 AM   #1
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Go back and listen to early Tool....

I have been listening to Opiate and Undertow, and also this bootleg Opium Den album, and it's incredible how the band has evolved from that time. Some of it good, some bad (Submachine will be blowing his load over this).

The songs back then, especially Opium Den and Opiate, are so raw, not clumsy, but not as tight. Maynard's vocals are so passionate, so full of belief in what he is saying. You know, like these guys give a shit and they are putting everything into what they're playing and singing.

On Undertow, again, MJK's vocals are SO different.

Then fast forward to 10,000 Days. The musicianship is so much more advanced, the recording studio so much more professional, MJK's voice is really different.

And yet.....I can't help but feel that it's taken some of the raw human emotion out of the whole thing. Back then they were trying to be discovered, trying to succeed, etc. Now, with 10,000 Days, it's more like they've made it and it seems more like hard work.

Bah, I don't know if anybody will agree / beat me / give me shit. Probably....you're all so cynical and quick to move in like a pack of rabid dogs!
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koobcam
06-07-2006, 03:33 AM
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I agree. Slightly. I think it does indeed sound raw and this new album is coming in from a different place. But that's a good thing. I think if we'd of had 5 undertows we'd mostly all be bored as shit by it. i mean, ænima, lateralus....
Old 06-07-2006, 03:33 AM   #2
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

I agree. Slightly. I think it does indeed sound raw and this new album is coming in from a different place. But that's a good thing. I think if we'd of had 5 undertows we'd mostly all be bored as shit by it. i mean, ænima, lateralus....
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formerlycontent's Avatar formerlycontent
06-07-2006, 03:41 AM
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yeah ok , you'll probably get flamed by some for this thread, but i'll jump in first and give ya a bit of backup here. I totally understand what you're saying, umm, the thing is I do believe Maynard aswell as the rest of the band have elevated their musicianship since the early days. BUT, when you listen to the earler recordings, yes Maynrd does seem to be displaying more raw emotion that is so damn intense & even... umm what's the word i'm looking for??? all-encompassing? no. ummmm Infectious!!! Yes that's it. ( & yeah i do type everything as i'm thinking it) I remember being 15 y/o & hearing Opiate, this is back when i was looking for some music that i could listen to, going through all genres, my sister was trying to get me into Metallica and the like, but holy f*cking shit, Opiate was so damn Infectious.. yes Infectious, that I went and grabbed Undertow a few days later and again, holy fu*king shit. OK back to the topic of the thread sir, I do believe Maynards vocals are far less raw and even less emotional these days, some may argue that songs like Wings pt.2 are more emotional than older Tool stuff, and yeah it's emotional, but not raw emotion, more like, rehearsed emotion imo. I do love this new album, aswell as all Tools work. peace
Old 06-07-2006, 03:41 AM   #3
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

yeah ok , you'll probably get flamed by some for this thread, but i'll jump in first and give ya a bit of backup here. I totally understand what you're saying, umm, the thing is I do believe Maynard aswell as the rest of the band have elevated their musicianship since the early days. BUT, when you listen to the earler recordings, yes Maynrd does seem to be displaying more raw emotion that is so damn intense & even... umm what's the word i'm looking for??? all-encompassing? no. ummmm Infectious!!! Yes that's it. ( & yeah i do type everything as i'm thinking it) I remember being 15 y/o & hearing Opiate, this is back when i was looking for some music that i could listen to, going through all genres, my sister was trying to get me into Metallica and the like, but holy f*cking shit, Opiate was so damn Infectious.. yes Infectious, that I went and grabbed Undertow a few days later and again, holy fu*king shit. OK back to the topic of the thread sir, I do believe Maynards vocals are far less raw and even less emotional these days, some may argue that songs like Wings pt.2 are more emotional than older Tool stuff, and yeah it's emotional, but not raw emotion, more like, rehearsed emotion imo. I do love this new album, aswell as all Tools work. peace
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formerlycontent's Avatar formerlycontent
06-07-2006, 03:49 AM
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But my fave Tool tracks are Swamp Song, Cold & Ugly, Forty Six & 2, Opiate & The Patient. So what do I know?
Old 06-07-2006, 03:49 AM   #4
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

But my fave Tool tracks are Swamp Song, Cold & Ugly, Forty Six & 2, Opiate & The Patient. So what do I know?
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deuceman's Avatar deuceman
06-07-2006, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
But my fave Tool tracks are Swamp Song, Cold & Ugly, Forty Six & 2, Opiate & The Patient. So what do I know?
Start enjoying The Pot, Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned. For me those are the 3 stand out tracks on the album. Jambi is up there as well, but I can't interpret / understand it yet, so it's missing something. Or I am...
Old 06-07-2006, 04:32 AM   #5
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
But my fave Tool tracks are Swamp Song, Cold & Ugly, Forty Six & 2, Opiate & The Patient. So what do I know?
Start enjoying The Pot, Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned. For me those are the 3 stand out tracks on the album. Jambi is up there as well, but I can't interpret / understand it yet, so it's missing something. Or I am...
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deuceman's Avatar deuceman
06-07-2006, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
yeah ok , you'll probably get flamed by some for this thread, but i'll jump in first and give ya a bit of backup here. I totally understand what you're saying, umm, the thing is I do believe Maynard aswell as the rest of the band have elevated their musicianship since the early days. BUT, when you listen to the earler recordings, yes Maynrd does seem to be displaying more raw emotion that is so damn intense & even... umm what's the word i'm looking for??? all-encompassing? no. ummmm Infectious!!! Yes that's it. ( & yeah i do type everything as i'm thinking it) I remember being 15 y/o & hearing Opiate, this is back when i was looking for some music that i could listen to, going through all genres, my sister was trying to get me into Metallica and the like, but holy f*cking shit, Opiate was so damn Infectious.. yes Infectious, that I went and grabbed Undertow a few days later and again, holy fu*king shit. OK back to the topic of the thread sir, I do believe Maynards vocals are far less raw and even less emotional these days, some may argue that songs like Wings pt.2 are more emotional than older Tool stuff, and yeah it's emotional, but not raw emotion, more like, rehearsed emotion imo. I do love this new album, aswell as all Tools work. peace
Is tricky to put into words so others don't misunderstand. I love all the albums, and I'm really getting into 10,000 Days, but I'm starting to believe those who are saying this will be the last album.

To say that on 10,000 Days the guys are just going through the motions is probably unfair, and I don't think that's the case. But I think it's become more of a profession / job type thing than the earlier albums. I just don't hear the same sincerity and intensity in Maynard's voice.

Now that I've said it I guess it could simply be that he is grieving for his mother, perhaps he is just tired, fed up, and wants to move on. I don't think that means he doesn't give a shit about the band. I just think his heart might not be 100% in it anymore. Which is cool. It's his life...

As for the others in the band, they're probably all still enjoying it. All of them have grown and evolved as musicians. Perhaps what we're seeing here is that MJK adds the missing ingredient between fucking awesome and total perfection. No MJK, no Tool. Stating the obvious, of course...
Old 06-07-2006, 04:41 AM   #6
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
yeah ok , you'll probably get flamed by some for this thread, but i'll jump in first and give ya a bit of backup here. I totally understand what you're saying, umm, the thing is I do believe Maynard aswell as the rest of the band have elevated their musicianship since the early days. BUT, when you listen to the earler recordings, yes Maynrd does seem to be displaying more raw emotion that is so damn intense & even... umm what's the word i'm looking for??? all-encompassing? no. ummmm Infectious!!! Yes that's it. ( & yeah i do type everything as i'm thinking it) I remember being 15 y/o & hearing Opiate, this is back when i was looking for some music that i could listen to, going through all genres, my sister was trying to get me into Metallica and the like, but holy f*cking shit, Opiate was so damn Infectious.. yes Infectious, that I went and grabbed Undertow a few days later and again, holy fu*king shit. OK back to the topic of the thread sir, I do believe Maynards vocals are far less raw and even less emotional these days, some may argue that songs like Wings pt.2 are more emotional than older Tool stuff, and yeah it's emotional, but not raw emotion, more like, rehearsed emotion imo. I do love this new album, aswell as all Tools work. peace
Is tricky to put into words so others don't misunderstand. I love all the albums, and I'm really getting into 10,000 Days, but I'm starting to believe those who are saying this will be the last album.

To say that on 10,000 Days the guys are just going through the motions is probably unfair, and I don't think that's the case. But I think it's become more of a profession / job type thing than the earlier albums. I just don't hear the same sincerity and intensity in Maynard's voice.

Now that I've said it I guess it could simply be that he is grieving for his mother, perhaps he is just tired, fed up, and wants to move on. I don't think that means he doesn't give a shit about the band. I just think his heart might not be 100% in it anymore. Which is cool. It's his life...

As for the others in the band, they're probably all still enjoying it. All of them have grown and evolved as musicians. Perhaps what we're seeing here is that MJK adds the missing ingredient between fucking awesome and total perfection. No MJK, no Tool. Stating the obvious, of course...
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khemystri's Avatar khemystri
06-07-2006, 04:44 AM
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I was never a huge Tool fan until Aenima.... It took that album to make me go back and appreciate Undertow and Opiate... but, I rarely listen to them.

I tend to stick to Aenima, Lateralus, and 10,000 Days.
Old 06-07-2006, 04:44 AM   #7
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

I was never a huge Tool fan until Aenima.... It took that album to make me go back and appreciate Undertow and Opiate... but, I rarely listen to them.

I tend to stick to Aenima, Lateralus, and 10,000 Days.
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37toolband
06-07-2006, 04:46 AM
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i can see what all of you are saying. as for not understanding Jambi, there are a lot of good threads about it in the subforums that have really helped me come up with my own interpretation and i definitely appreciate/enjoy the song so much more when i can put meaning behind it. its an amazing song.

as for maynards voice, it has definitely changed (progressed?) and maybe its just a matter of personal preference? anyone that has heard kill/ride/master/justice and then S & M knows that changes in voice can be a GREAT thing.
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Old 06-07-2006, 04:46 AM   #8
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

i can see what all of you are saying. as for not understanding Jambi, there are a lot of good threads about it in the subforums that have really helped me come up with my own interpretation and i definitely appreciate/enjoy the song so much more when i can put meaning behind it. its an amazing song.

as for maynards voice, it has definitely changed (progressed?) and maybe its just a matter of personal preference? anyone that has heard kill/ride/master/justice and then S & M knows that changes in voice can be a GREAT thing.
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formerlycontent's Avatar formerlycontent
06-07-2006, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceman
Is tricky to put into words so others don't misunderstand. I love all the albums, and I'm really getting into 10,000 Days, but I'm starting to believe those who are saying this will be the last album.

To say that on 10,000 Days the guys are just going through the motions is probably unfair, and I don't think that's the case. But I think it's become more of a profession / job type thing than the earlier albums. I just don't hear the same sincerity and intensity in Maynard's voice.

Now that I've said it I guess it could simply be that he is grieving for his mother, perhaps he is just tired, fed up, and wants to move on. I don't think that means he doesn't give a shit about the band. I just think his heart might not be 100% in it anymore. Which is cool. It's his life...

As for the others in the band, they're probably all still enjoying it. All of them have grown and evolved as musicians. Perhaps what we're seeing here is that MJK adds the missing ingredient between fucking awesome and total perfection. No MJK, no Tool. Stating the obvious, of course...
Totally man, you do anything for that length of time and things won't stay as intense or be as passionate, but occasionally things will pick up & then you will have a slump, then things will pick up again, and then it will seem boring, and then it will change again, things become more exciting than ever. I'm guessing thats Tools next album, a couple years from now. I will listen to & love 10k days until the next record which i'm 100% sure will come out eventually.

edit. I didnt mean it to seem like i thought this record is boring, it's more than enough new Tool to keep my mind occupied for the next few years, loving it. But I am even more excited than ever about a new album, the anticipationfor the next Tool record should be the biggest buzz since nirvana, it's gonna be insane. I expect the greatest album of all time, so how will they do that? I trust they will exceed even my expectations.

Last edited by formerlycontent; 06-07-2006 at 04:51 AM..
Old 06-07-2006, 04:47 AM   #9
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceman
Is tricky to put into words so others don't misunderstand. I love all the albums, and I'm really getting into 10,000 Days, but I'm starting to believe those who are saying this will be the last album.

To say that on 10,000 Days the guys are just going through the motions is probably unfair, and I don't think that's the case. But I think it's become more of a profession / job type thing than the earlier albums. I just don't hear the same sincerity and intensity in Maynard's voice.

Now that I've said it I guess it could simply be that he is grieving for his mother, perhaps he is just tired, fed up, and wants to move on. I don't think that means he doesn't give a shit about the band. I just think his heart might not be 100% in it anymore. Which is cool. It's his life...

As for the others in the band, they're probably all still enjoying it. All of them have grown and evolved as musicians. Perhaps what we're seeing here is that MJK adds the missing ingredient between fucking awesome and total perfection. No MJK, no Tool. Stating the obvious, of course...
Totally man, you do anything for that length of time and things won't stay as intense or be as passionate, but occasionally things will pick up & then you will have a slump, then things will pick up again, and then it will seem boring, and then it will change again, things become more exciting than ever. I'm guessing thats Tools next album, a couple years from now. I will listen to & love 10k days until the next record which i'm 100% sure will come out eventually.

edit. I didnt mean it to seem like i thought this record is boring, it's more than enough new Tool to keep my mind occupied for the next few years, loving it. But I am even more excited than ever about a new album, the anticipationfor the next Tool record should be the biggest buzz since nirvana, it's gonna be insane. I expect the greatest album of all time, so how will they do that? I trust they will exceed even my expectations.

Last edited by formerlycontent; 06-07-2006 at 04:51 AM..
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thomasstearns's Avatar thomasstearns
06-07-2006, 04:55 AM
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I think everyone tends to underestimate opiate. it is probably my favorite album for one reason. It is a sound they will never recreate. if you listen to 10,000 days you hear ties into all their older albums other than opiate. it just has the raw energy and anger that was only there becuse of there age and anger and the world around them.
Old 06-07-2006, 04:55 AM   #10
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

I think everyone tends to underestimate opiate. it is probably my favorite album for one reason. It is a sound they will never recreate. if you listen to 10,000 days you hear ties into all their older albums other than opiate. it just has the raw energy and anger that was only there becuse of there age and anger and the world around them.
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Raapy
06-07-2006, 05:05 AM
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While I enjoy songs on Opiate & Undertow, Aenima & Lateralus are definitely the band's most special albums to me. Without a doubt my two favorite albums from any band, really. I think they started becoming a unique band with Undertow, but didn't quite reach it; then with Aenima they suddenly became perfect. Then Lateralus came along, which proved to be far more 'sophisticated', perhaps.

I mostly judge the albums by the number of Toolgasms in them. Aenima is full of them(Stinkfist, h., 46&2, jimmy, Pushit, Third Eye), Lateralus has many as well, but they're not as strong as Aenima's, with the exception of Schism and Reflection. 10,000 Days has them too, but they're only really strong in Rosetta and The Pot.
Old 06-07-2006, 05:05 AM   #11
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

While I enjoy songs on Opiate & Undertow, Aenima & Lateralus are definitely the band's most special albums to me. Without a doubt my two favorite albums from any band, really. I think they started becoming a unique band with Undertow, but didn't quite reach it; then with Aenima they suddenly became perfect. Then Lateralus came along, which proved to be far more 'sophisticated', perhaps.

I mostly judge the albums by the number of Toolgasms in them. Aenima is full of them(Stinkfist, h., 46&2, jimmy, Pushit, Third Eye), Lateralus has many as well, but they're not as strong as Aenima's, with the exception of Schism and Reflection. 10,000 Days has them too, but they're only really strong in Rosetta and The Pot.
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bmeason's Avatar bmeason
06-07-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasstearns
I think everyone tends to underestimate opiate. it is probably my favorite album for one reason. It is a sound they will never recreate. if you listen to 10,000 days you hear ties into all their older albums other than opiate. it just has the raw energy and anger that was only there becuse of there age and anger and the world around them.
Well said. Some of the tracks even recorded live! It is just the beginning of the mold that will eventually produce 10,000 days. Each album stands on its own and is a different part of their views and emotions. Opiate is raw, very raw.. but ALL of their albums are awesome in this same degree! We will never catch them in that moment or space again, when they wrote their music. It is different and says much a new each time. Great to have a time capsule of tool in this form. Amazing it is, yes? :)
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:39 AM   #12
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasstearns
I think everyone tends to underestimate opiate. it is probably my favorite album for one reason. It is a sound they will never recreate. if you listen to 10,000 days you hear ties into all their older albums other than opiate. it just has the raw energy and anger that was only there becuse of there age and anger and the world around them.
Well said. Some of the tracks even recorded live! It is just the beginning of the mold that will eventually produce 10,000 days. Each album stands on its own and is a different part of their views and emotions. Opiate is raw, very raw.. but ALL of their albums are awesome in this same degree! We will never catch them in that moment or space again, when they wrote their music. It is different and says much a new each time. Great to have a time capsule of tool in this form. Amazing it is, yes? :)
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knot0fvipers's Avatar knot0fvipers
06-07-2006, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceman
Start enjoying The Pot, Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned. For me those are the 3 stand out tracks on the album. Jambi is up there as well, but I can't interpret / understand it yet, so it's missing something. Or I am...
no, they just arent that good and/or inspired.
sorry fan boys
Old 06-07-2006, 05:41 AM   #13
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceman
Start enjoying The Pot, Vicarious and Rosetta Stoned. For me those are the 3 stand out tracks on the album. Jambi is up there as well, but I can't interpret / understand it yet, so it's missing something. Or I am...
no, they just arent that good and/or inspired.
sorry fan boys
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paraflux
06-07-2006, 05:48 AM
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Good for you, knot of vipers, for having an opinion.

Now, to the OP, I have yet to see a band that doesnt change over time, doesnt appear to be less... hungry? Because they simply arent hungry. They are fed. They are secure. They can explore now to their heart's content, which was part of the problem earlier on in their lives. You cant stay angry forever, especially if you are feeding yourself.
Old 06-07-2006, 05:48 AM   #14
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Good for you, knot of vipers, for having an opinion.

Now, to the OP, I have yet to see a band that doesnt change over time, doesnt appear to be less... hungry? Because they simply arent hungry. They are fed. They are secure. They can explore now to their heart's content, which was part of the problem earlier on in their lives. You cant stay angry forever, especially if you are feeding yourself.
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formerlycontent's Avatar formerlycontent
06-07-2006, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Good for you, knot of vipers, for having an opinion.

Now, to the OP, I have yet to see a band that doesnt change over time, doesnt appear to be less... hungry? Because they simply arent hungry. They are fed. They are secure. They can explore now to their heart's content, which was part of the problem earlier on in their lives. You cant stay angry forever, especially if you are feeding yourself.
So.Paraflux, thats pretty ignorant man. Do you reckon thee are no ups & downs? There sure have been in my life/careers & i'm sure there have been in yours.Sometimes I feel I was far more on to it when I was 19, sometimes I think i'm smarter now. Humans are relatively unsure on things of such depth, its natural, human nature, and i'm sure you're not always so sure of yourself.
Old 06-07-2006, 05:55 AM   #15
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Good for you, knot of vipers, for having an opinion.

Now, to the OP, I have yet to see a band that doesnt change over time, doesnt appear to be less... hungry? Because they simply arent hungry. They are fed. They are secure. They can explore now to their heart's content, which was part of the problem earlier on in their lives. You cant stay angry forever, especially if you are feeding yourself.
So.Paraflux, thats pretty ignorant man. Do you reckon thee are no ups & downs? There sure have been in my life/careers & i'm sure there have been in yours.Sometimes I feel I was far more on to it when I was 19, sometimes I think i'm smarter now. Humans are relatively unsure on things of such depth, its natural, human nature, and i'm sure you're not always so sure of yourself.
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paraflux
06-07-2006, 05:56 AM
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Im not sure what your problem with me is. I asked you in another thread and you failed to respond.

What you said has no bearing at all on what I said. But of course, I'm talking on a pretty large scale here, not talking about ups and downs that may last for periods of months.

Yes, I am pretty sure of myself, thanks for noticing.
Old 06-07-2006, 05:56 AM   #16
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Im not sure what your problem with me is. I asked you in another thread and you failed to respond.

What you said has no bearing at all on what I said. But of course, I'm talking on a pretty large scale here, not talking about ups and downs that may last for periods of months.

Yes, I am pretty sure of myself, thanks for noticing.
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formerlycontent's Avatar formerlycontent
06-07-2006, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Im not sure what your problem with me is. I asked you in another thread and you failed to respond.

What you said has no bearing at all on what I said. But of course, I'm talking on a pretty large scale here, not talking about ups and downs that may last for periods of months.

Yes, I am pretty sure of myself, thanks for noticing.
ups & downs have a timing cut off point? hmm, I have no particular problem with you, just 1 or 2 comments. Nothing which would make me pick up a knife, just opinions which differ in some respects.
Old 06-07-2006, 06:01 AM   #17
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Im not sure what your problem with me is. I asked you in another thread and you failed to respond.

What you said has no bearing at all on what I said. But of course, I'm talking on a pretty large scale here, not talking about ups and downs that may last for periods of months.

Yes, I am pretty sure of myself, thanks for noticing.
ups & downs have a timing cut off point? hmm, I have no particular problem with you, just 1 or 2 comments. Nothing which would make me pick up a knife, just opinions which differ in some respects.
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paraflux
06-07-2006, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
i'll more than likely be banned for this comment, but if this site would ban someone for having their own views then so be it, ok we will see, here goes.....paraflux, you're a f*cking dipshit. and i mean that in the most serious way. Not as a typical insult, just that I don't agree with much that you say, and more often that not your comments are vomit inducing. So, that is the way I feel, am I allowed to feel the way I feel on this site? Or should i surpress it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
hmm, I have no particular problem with you, just 1 or 2 comments. Nothing which would make me pick up a knife, just opinions which differ in some respects.
Sounds to me like someone might have multiple personality disorder. That, or a case of the backpedals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
ups & downs have a timing cut off point?
Um, in order for there to be ups and down, a roller-coaster ride which you suggest, there needs to be periods of time discussed, yes. And that's one way to look at things. However, I was thinking on the larger scale, and big progressive picture, the way the OP was trying to do, and not bring it down to some other level.
Old 06-07-2006, 06:06 AM   #18
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
i'll more than likely be banned for this comment, but if this site would ban someone for having their own views then so be it, ok we will see, here goes.....paraflux, you're a f*cking dipshit. and i mean that in the most serious way. Not as a typical insult, just that I don't agree with much that you say, and more often that not your comments are vomit inducing. So, that is the way I feel, am I allowed to feel the way I feel on this site? Or should i surpress it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
hmm, I have no particular problem with you, just 1 or 2 comments. Nothing which would make me pick up a knife, just opinions which differ in some respects.
Sounds to me like someone might have multiple personality disorder. That, or a case of the backpedals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerlycontent
ups & downs have a timing cut off point?
Um, in order for there to be ups and down, a roller-coaster ride which you suggest, there needs to be periods of time discussed, yes. And that's one way to look at things. However, I was thinking on the larger scale, and big progressive picture, the way the OP was trying to do, and not bring it down to some other level.
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formerlycontent's Avatar formerlycontent
06-07-2006, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Sounds to me like someone might have multiple personality disorder. That, or a case of the backpedals.


Um, in order for there to be ups and down, a roller-coaster ride which you suggest, there needs to be periods of time discussed, yes. And that's one way to look at things. However, I was thinking on the larger scale, and big progressive picture, the way the OP was trying to do, and not bring it down to some other level.
holy shit dude. you speak of a larger level, but it seems to me you are bringing this down to ground level. Surely ups & downs can span many years, that's obvious, so i won't argue that point. And I believe you know the reason for my somewhat abusive message which you happened to quote. I have nothing more to say on this subject.
Old 06-07-2006, 06:11 AM   #19
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Sounds to me like someone might have multiple personality disorder. That, or a case of the backpedals.


Um, in order for there to be ups and down, a roller-coaster ride which you suggest, there needs to be periods of time discussed, yes. And that's one way to look at things. However, I was thinking on the larger scale, and big progressive picture, the way the OP was trying to do, and not bring it down to some other level.
holy shit dude. you speak of a larger level, but it seems to me you are bringing this down to ground level. Surely ups & downs can span many years, that's obvious, so i won't argue that point. And I believe you know the reason for my somewhat abusive message which you happened to quote. I have nothing more to say on this subject.
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paraflux
06-07-2006, 06:13 AM
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*shrug* no, I dont know. But I'm not going to think about it a whole lot either.

Sorry that you took it as bringing it down. I was speaking of the entire lifespan of a band.
Old 06-07-2006, 06:13 AM   #20
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

*shrug* no, I dont know. But I'm not going to think about it a whole lot either.

Sorry that you took it as bringing it down. I was speaking of the entire lifespan of a band.
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06-07-2006, 06:15 AM
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ok, peace. im going to sleep. i'll be back.
Old 06-07-2006, 06:15 AM   #21
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

ok, peace. im going to sleep. i'll be back.
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06-07-2006, 06:24 AM
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Okay, so I'm gonna ask the stupid question. What's the Opium Den bootleg?
Old 06-07-2006, 06:24 AM   #22
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Okay, so I'm gonna ask the stupid question. What's the Opium Den bootleg?
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06-07-2006, 06:59 AM
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Deuceman, Well done man.. The only thing that I would change is, in my opinion, Maynard is the only member of the band that has lost his energy. If you listen to Opiate through Aenima, Maynard sings with an incredible amount conviction and intensity. You have to pay attention to what he is saying. It is like the music is coming directly from his soul.

On Lateralus and to a lesser extent 10,000 Days. Maynard does not sound like he is feeling the music. The music is now just being spit out of his mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Good for you, knot of vipers, for having an opinion.

Now, to the OP, I have yet to see a band that doesn’t change over time, doesn’t appear to be less... hungry? Because they simply aren’t hungry. They are fed. They are secure. They can explore now to their heart's content, which was part of the problem earlier on in their lives. You cant stay angry forever, especially if you are feeding yourself.
Paraflux, I agree completely, I think the Maynard's "Hunger" is probably the biggest reason that he does not have the energy he had in Tool's earlier albums. Let's face it, life is just more straight forward when you get older. There is less to bitch about:)
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:59 AM   #23
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Deuceman, Well done man.. The only thing that I would change is, in my opinion, Maynard is the only member of the band that has lost his energy. If you listen to Opiate through Aenima, Maynard sings with an incredible amount conviction and intensity. You have to pay attention to what he is saying. It is like the music is coming directly from his soul.

On Lateralus and to a lesser extent 10,000 Days. Maynard does not sound like he is feeling the music. The music is now just being spit out of his mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Good for you, knot of vipers, for having an opinion.

Now, to the OP, I have yet to see a band that doesn’t change over time, doesn’t appear to be less... hungry? Because they simply aren’t hungry. They are fed. They are secure. They can explore now to their heart's content, which was part of the problem earlier on in their lives. You cant stay angry forever, especially if you are feeding yourself.
Paraflux, I agree completely, I think the Maynard's "Hunger" is probably the biggest reason that he does not have the energy he had in Tool's earlier albums. Let's face it, life is just more straight forward when you get older. There is less to bitch about:)
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paraflux
06-07-2006, 07:13 AM
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I dont want people to misunderstand, I dont think the band has "lost" an energy, I just think they are using it to explore new things. And I'm behind them 100% for not ever releasing an album that was like the previous one in any way.
Old 06-07-2006, 07:13 AM   #24
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

I dont want people to misunderstand, I dont think the band has "lost" an energy, I just think they are using it to explore new things. And I'm behind them 100% for not ever releasing an album that was like the previous one in any way.
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hbynoe's Avatar hbynoe
06-07-2006, 07:26 AM
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i think they have actually gone back to
being more raw and more natural on 10,000 days
it is much more visceral and warmer than lateralus's
icy stance...certainly a whole lot less cerebral more
emotional..which is them getting back to the bread and
butter of what it is to be human imo
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:26 AM   #25
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

i think they have actually gone back to
being more raw and more natural on 10,000 days
it is much more visceral and warmer than lateralus's
icy stance...certainly a whole lot less cerebral more
emotional..which is them getting back to the bread and
butter of what it is to be human imo
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Get_Ya_Wicked_On
06-07-2006, 07:27 AM
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When I look at their past albums, I think "how can people here criticize 10,000 days so much when this band has released masterpiece after masterpiece?"

Quite frankly, I'm surprised they were able to make yet another very good album. Just think about it.
Old 06-07-2006, 07:27 AM   #26
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

When I look at their past albums, I think "how can people here criticize 10,000 days so much when this band has released masterpiece after masterpiece?"

Quite frankly, I'm surprised they were able to make yet another very good album. Just think about it.
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tbrent21's Avatar tbrent21
06-07-2006, 07:47 AM
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Summarizing this thread I think we all pretty much agree that all of their albums kick ass, including Opiate and Undertow. They all just have their unique place in Tool's history.

We all know that a big reason the later albums are more adventurous and often sound better because they come at a time when Tool is an established artist and has clout, money, etc., to pull off better sonic tricks and do what they want to do artistically, let a song go on for 11 minutes, etc.

I am intrigued by the notion of re-recording Undertow with today's technology, and also the band's increased technological reportoire, to make it sound even better. Undertow rocks from beginning to end, a landmark album. Before Undertow hard rock was largely unintelligent and dominated by lazy buffoonery and cheesy machismo. The album gained them their base that set them on the path they are on today. "Sold my soul to make a record."
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:47 AM   #27
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Summarizing this thread I think we all pretty much agree that all of their albums kick ass, including Opiate and Undertow. They all just have their unique place in Tool's history.

We all know that a big reason the later albums are more adventurous and often sound better because they come at a time when Tool is an established artist and has clout, money, etc., to pull off better sonic tricks and do what they want to do artistically, let a song go on for 11 minutes, etc.

I am intrigued by the notion of re-recording Undertow with today's technology, and also the band's increased technological reportoire, to make it sound even better. Undertow rocks from beginning to end, a landmark album. Before Undertow hard rock was largely unintelligent and dominated by lazy buffoonery and cheesy machismo. The album gained them their base that set them on the path they are on today. "Sold my soul to make a record."
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Sotto Voce
06-07-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceman
Probably....you're all so cynical and quick to move in like a pack of rabid dogs!
Well if THAT isn't cynical...
Old 06-07-2006, 07:57 AM   #28
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceman
Probably....you're all so cynical and quick to move in like a pack of rabid dogs!
Well if THAT isn't cynical...
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champion's Avatar champion
06-07-2006, 08:12 AM
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Yeah, I think Maynard's vocals on Opiate are incredible. I've been listening to that one lately.
Old 06-07-2006, 08:12 AM   #29
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Yeah, I think Maynard's vocals on Opiate are incredible. I've been listening to that one lately.
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06-07-2006, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Undertow is a little southern/bluesy for me
lol, what?
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:18 AM   #30
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Undertow is a little southern/bluesy for me
lol, what?
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06-07-2006, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
I don't know, it's hard to explain. Undertow just sounds a lot more like something some redneck might like. I think the guitar riffs sound kind of twangy to me.
Wow. I guess Uh.. I dunno. That's the first time I've heard something like that. LOL twangy? I just...I don't see it.
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:40 AM   #31
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
I don't know, it's hard to explain. Undertow just sounds a lot more like something some redneck might like. I think the guitar riffs sound kind of twangy to me.
Wow. I guess Uh.. I dunno. That's the first time I've heard something like that. LOL twangy? I just...I don't see it.
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Get_Ya_Wicked_On
06-07-2006, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Undertow just sounds a lot more like something some redneck might like.

Quote of the month.
Old 06-07-2006, 08:41 AM   #32
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Undertow just sounds a lot more like something some redneck might like.

Quote of the month.
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champion's Avatar champion
06-07-2006, 08:41 AM
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I kinda see it. At least... 4 Degrees is twangy.

But I definitely see it being a bluesy record.
Old 06-07-2006, 08:41 AM   #33
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

I kinda see it. At least... 4 Degrees is twangy.

But I definitely see it being a bluesy record.
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06-07-2006, 08:44 AM
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you do? Are you guys insane maybe? LOL. no offense, though. Bluesy...maybe. but southern and redneckish? I just don't see it. It's to evil and gothic sounding at times. and at others it sorta has a mid east vibe but...redneckish? lol

LOL <---------------------
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:44 AM   #34
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

you do? Are you guys insane maybe? LOL. no offense, though. Bluesy...maybe. but southern and redneckish? I just don't see it. It's to evil and gothic sounding at times. and at others it sorta has a mid east vibe but...redneckish? lol

LOL <---------------------
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06-07-2006, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Bluesy = southern
not really
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:07 AM   #35
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Bluesy = southern
not really
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06-07-2006, 09:29 AM
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I dunno, man. too much wacky tobacky maybe? LOL it's fine that you hear what you hear I just don't. Champion agreed with you..so.
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:29 AM   #36
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

I dunno, man. too much wacky tobacky maybe? LOL it's fine that you hear what you hear I just don't. Champion agreed with you..so.
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Get_Ya_Wicked_On
06-07-2006, 09:34 AM
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Yeah, that says a lot!


edit: i'm sorry.
Old 06-07-2006, 09:34 AM   #37
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Yeah, that says a lot!


edit: i'm sorry.
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guitarpete987
06-07-2006, 09:38 AM
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To this day I've never heard Maynard give a raw scream with such emotion as that "Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiie" right before the outro of Jerk-Off.

But I just think different emotions sound more raw than others. And it just happens that Tool was only about being pissed off in the early days and now they have so many more different emotions to pull from. And 10,000 Days is a dark record. It's not an angry record though. It's more dark in the way of cynical humor.
Old 06-07-2006, 09:38 AM   #38
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

To this day I've never heard Maynard give a raw scream with such emotion as that "Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiie" right before the outro of Jerk-Off.

But I just think different emotions sound more raw than others. And it just happens that Tool was only about being pissed off in the early days and now they have so many more different emotions to pull from. And 10,000 Days is a dark record. It's not an angry record though. It's more dark in the way of cynical humor.
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06-07-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Undertow is a little southern/bluesy for me, so my opinion here probably isn't worth a shit, but I think that Aenima, Lateralus, and 10KD(I really really really like the new album,) are in a class of their own. I think that a lot of this has to do with MJK's ability to sort of "detach" his voice from the music.

Undertow "southern/bluesy"?? OMG
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:22 AM   #39
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by leefnaspleaf
Undertow is a little southern/bluesy for me, so my opinion here probably isn't worth a shit, but I think that Aenima, Lateralus, and 10KD(I really really really like the new album,) are in a class of their own. I think that a lot of this has to do with MJK's ability to sort of "detach" his voice from the music.

Undertow "southern/bluesy"?? OMG
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06-07-2006, 11:01 AM
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Deuceman, Well done man.. The only thing that I would change is, in my opinion, Maynard is the only member of the band that has lost his energy. If you listen to Opiate through Aenima, Maynard sings with an incredible amount conviction and intensity. You have to pay attention to what he is saying. It is like the music is coming directly from his soul.

On Lateralus and to a lesser extent 10,000 Days. Maynard does not sound like he is feeling the music. The music is now just being spit out of his mouth.



:)
I think it's you who can't feel the "soul" in Lateralus.I'm completely opposite,I can't stand Undertow,it's so lifeless and generic sounding to me.sounds like many other rock records out there.
Old 06-07-2006, 11:01 AM   #40
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Re: Go back and listen to early Tool....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAILS
Deuceman, Well done man.. The only thing that I would change is, in my opinion, Maynard is the only member of the band that has lost his energy. If you listen to Opiate through Aenima, Maynard sings with an incredible amount conviction and intensity. You have to pay attention to what he is saying. It is like the music is coming directly from his soul.

On Lateralus and to a lesser extent 10,000 Days. Maynard does not sound like he is feeling the music. The music is now just being spit out of his mouth.



:)
I think it's you who can't feel the "soul" in Lateralus.I'm completely opposite,I can't stand Undertow,it's so lifeless and generic sounding to me.sounds like many other rock records out there.
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