Now this isn't another one of those Fibonacci Sequence things, I just think this tracklist makes the album sound better.

1. Lost Keys (Blame Hoffman)
2. Rosetta Stoned
3. Wings For Marie (Pt. 1)
4. The Pot
5. Right In Two
6. Viginti Tres
7. Intension
8. Vicarious
9. Jambi
10. Lipan Conjuring
11. 10,000 Days (Wings Pt. 2)

Try it, and post what you think, I personally think that putting Wings part 1 and 2 apart brings back a haunting tone which you had forgotten once The Pot had come in. Wings Pt.2 leaves you stunned, and filled with strange emotions, and that shouldn't be ruined by The Pot. I also think the Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned intro would kickass, like their live shows.

I don't like how you split up Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days. They need to be together, imo.
Other than that, it's pretty good. I think the CD should have ended with the epic, like they had originally planned...

Enjoy your tracklist switcharoo. I prefer to listen to albums the way they are. It just works better that way.

Hmm, i like it partly, i've changed mine round personally to this

1. Lost keys
2. Rosetta Stoned
3. Jambi
4. The Pot
5. Vicarious
6. Intension
7. Right In Two
8. Wings For Marie
9. 10,000 Days

I've cut out viginti tres and lipan conjuring, i prefer casual listening personally. But you know how the album has its heavy songs, and its softer songs, i've categorised them in this new tracklist. Its nice and seperate. Gives the album a more cohesive feel.

I heard the original poster's suggested tracklist and it's almost decent.

I also really think the album is fine the way it is.

I see you were going for a Shine On You Crazy Diamond type thing by splitting the wings up, and that is that part of it I think works OK. Cause it is kinda cool having part 2 come back at the end. I don't think Lipan Conjuring works though, where you put it.

And you can't break up Intension and Right in Two. They connect, literally. It's like Disposition and Reflection.

That's the thing about this album. Vicarious, Jambi and The Pot are the only songs that stand alone.

Lost Keys and Rosetta Stoned are one. Intension and Right in Two are one. Wings Parts 1 and 2 are one, but the division between the two makes it reasonable to split them up across the length of the album, a la Pink Floyd.

And that's that.

I still personally don't like the idea of splitting those two tracks up, but I do see the effect that it would have as a whole. Sort of a deja vu-like experience: hearing wings part I at the first of the album, then 10,000 Days at the end gives you a feeling of "I've heard this riff before, haven't I?" Especially on the first few listens..

Swtiching track positions on a CD is kind of like re-arranging the chapters of a novel or re-ordering the spatial position of an art exhibit -- you may lose something that the artist was attempting to get accross (i.e. the progression of a thought; the development of a feeling; the evolution of an idea). Then again, art isn't really produced until it is recieved, right? So I guess whatever kind of order one (i.e. a listener or Tool) wants to impose on 10,000 days is completely valid, though never 'wrong' or 'right.'

This is a good alternative list if you're going to do that sort of thing.
At one time, TOOL had wings/10k at the end like this, anyways.

My list would be:

Lost Keys
Rosetta Stoned
Jambi
The Pot
Intension
Right in Two
Vicarious
Wings for Marie
10,000 Days

it breaks up the dynamics a little more evenly to me.

lipan conjuring
the pot
lost keys
jambi
roseta stoned
wings 1
right in two
vicarious
intension
Wings 2

^thats THE order one shouldnt listen.. ...

1. Rosetta Stoned
2. Right In Two
3. Intension
4. The Pot
5. Jambi
6. Vicarious
7. Wings For Marie (Pt. 1)
8. 10,000 Days (Wings Pt. 2)

I'M SO FUCKEN OVER THE FILLERS. And I don't care about the lyrics either - I'm just into the music man. You gotta end with one of the epics.

i agree about the fillers. I think its a little old for them to still be doing them. they make aenima drag. Lateralus fillers were utterly pointless, and 10k fillers are useless like usual. I still like my tracklist better. ahhahahaha

Tried it for shits and giggles. Doesn't compare to the original tracklisting, it's just the way it's meant to be played imo.

I'm not normally into these alternate track listing things, but this is one Tool album where I really do think it could be better when set up differently. And so here's what I'll probably try...

1. Lost Keys
2. Rosetta Stoned
3. Lipan Conjuring
4. Wings for Marie (pt. 1)
5. The Pot
6. Vicarious
7. Jambi
8. Intension
9. Right in Two
10. 10,000 Days (Wings pt. 2)
11. Viginti Tres

The last two could be switched around.

Seriously man, Lost Keys is not a filler track. There's definitetly music happening on that track, and it's the INTRO to Rosetta. It's like Parabol/Parabola. They are one entity man. It defines Rosetta. Inseparable they are!!!

Lost Keys is not filler. Agreed.

I actually like Lipan Conjuring.

Viginti Tres is ok, I just would rather have 5 minutes of dc, jc, mjk and aj.

i disagree. wings is like parabol. L.K. is a filler. Even that boring fuck Blair, over at toolband, referred to it as a segue when clearing up what he meant when he said that there were no guest appearances on 10,000 days.

Well look at the actual transition that takes place...

Lost Keys --(sudden volume swell)--> Rosetta Stoned
Parabol --(sudden volume swell)--> Parabola

Wings 1 --(spaced out drum hits)--> Wings 2
Disposition --(spaced out drum hits)--> Reflection

i see your point. very clear and supported, but i refuse to accept it.

I like your idea of splitting up Wings 1 & 2. It does make sense. But I prefer this order.

Lost Keys
Rosetta Stoned
The Pot
Wings Part 1
Vicarious
Intension
Jambi
Wings Part 2
Lipan Conjuring
Right In Two
Vigniti Tres

1. The Pot
2. 10,000 Days (wings Pt.2)
3. Wings for Marie (Pt 1)
4.Jambi
5.Lipan Conjuring
6.Intension
7.Right in Two
8.Lost Keys (Blame Hofmann)
9.Rosetta Stoned
10. Viginti Tres
11.Vicarious

I made a thread of this in the 10,000 days (Wings PT2) section entitled "Part 2 before Part 1?" I made the argument that the two sound like a continuous song if you switch them because the wing sound flows seamlessly between the two.

To each his own.

Well, I did try it with Viginti/Wings 2 switching places and this has become my new version of the CD, the regular is going back in the case. Good stuff.

Well, other than the aforementioned musical swell and the fact that there is no break in sound between the two tracks, when the "character" says, "Alrighty then. Picture this if you will" it's an obvious response to everthing that happened in Lost Keys. Otherwise, you don't really know why he's saying that or the context of Rosetta Stoned at all.

And, to refer to the post you made prior to the one I quoted, because Blair said it, it's ultimate truth? Come on, the man's choice of words isn't always golden. And I never said it wasn't a segue. I said it wasn't filler. There IS a difference. Filler is there to take up space, while a segue is a transitional piece. And if you want to go with Blair's terminology, I suppose an intro could be considered a segue because it takes you from what happened before into something completely different.

But I see you refuse to accept any other point of view.

I don't get how you can like Viginti Tres. It isn't anything. At all, there's a few random noises, and then "The System" or "Francisco" or whatever you think it is.

I have little interest in stories or lyrics. It was not until recently that I learned what he says in stinkfist.

i didnt try it yet, but i imagine jambi into the pot would be cool, because jambi ends with echoes and the pot has that reverse echo into the lyrics....symmetrical kinda thing

I understand the process of trying to re-arrange the tracks, but keep coming to the same end as TOOL did. Vicarious and Jambi need to be together, as well as Wings/10,000 days and Intension/Right in Two. The Pot seems to be the only moveable track (not counting Lipan and 23). Maybe switching Pot after Jambi. Other than that, I don't see a better combination than the one we already have.

Actually, this new tracklist I got works a lot better with Wings, I think. This album has three large chunks in Wings, LK/RS, and Intension/Right in Two. Now, I like these 2-parters, but it's a bit much to have a greater half of the album broken into pairs like that. Breaking up Wings not only helps the flow of the album, but Wings 2 works as a great closer. And Wings 1 actually doesn't fade into part 2, it just fades out with drum hits.

As I said, I've never felt the need to do this with any other CD's, but I've always just felt this album has a very poor flow to it and switching some tracks around really does help it.

It's an interesting concept, maybe I'll try it. Splitting Wings just seems bizarre because I don't see these tracks as 2 distinct songs. Then again, TOOL has rarely done anything in conventional fashion, so what the hell.

When the track list first came out, I actually thought it was strange that they'd label a song in two parts (first time they've done that) and put them next to eachother. Can't say why, exactly - maybe it just seemed too predictable. I just like the idea of introducing the Wings theme in the beginning of the album and then recalling it at the end. And because Wings 2 has such a distinct finality about its ending, it doesn't feel right at all to me being in the first part of the album. Sort of loses its potency.

i invisioned the ending of the songs in my head and it seems to fit....except for Lipan Conjuring being before 10,000 days.........(pertaining to main post)

Very good points, but I still like the idea of Intension/Right in Two at the end. 10,000 days at the end would be very interesting. I'm actually gonna mix it up with your suggestions and come back to you. From a production point of view, it doesn't initially make sense, but in my minds eye I can see where it could work. Signatures the albums vibe. Why not then begin with Wings? Encapsulating and insulating the rest of the tracks between them? Just an idea.

Beginning with Wings would probably work, too. The reason I started with LK/RS, I think, is because that's what they opened with when I saw them, and it's really powerful start. Startings with Wings 1 might make a little more sense for the 'bookends' concept. I just like the idea of sort of isolating LK/RS from the rest of the songs, as you can see by my inclusion of Lipan between that and Wings 1.

I've been listening to it like this since the day it came out:

Lipan Conjuring
The Pot
Intension
Right in Two
Vicarious
Jambi
Lost Keys
Rosetta Stoned
Wings for Marie
10,000 Days
Viginti Tres

With this order, the album starts out surprisingly very strong and putting Vicarious and Jambi more toward the middle (after the strong close of Right In Two) really gives it some momentum.

Splitting Wings is a possibility that I'm leaning toward.

If only V.T. was shorter, it would fit perfectly as a lead-in to Lost Keys, serving as a sort of abstract representation of the bizarre experience that the narrator from Rosetta Stoned lays out. However, because it is so long, I find it hard to put V.T. anywhere but at the end of the record. Perhaps this way one could imagine it being an auditory account of Marie's journey into the afterlife.

It was in a different order before they changed it to its current order, so it doesnt matter.

cuz it sounds like the end of an acid trip or the return from a heavy dose of shakti transmission. but yeah, like i said...i'd rather have a 5 min song from the band. it's there for a reason, we just dont' really know why yet. at least I don't.

You're not in TOOL. so, you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to song titles, order, or anything at all regarding their craft. just accept the album for what it is, not what you're screwy brain thinks it could be.

Hey hey, I don't recall saying I was a member of Tool, would ya mind quoting where I said that? But I guess if that's the kind of warped logic we're using...

You're not in TOOL. So don't get offended when someone says that the tracklisting of this band you're not in has a better personal impact for them when put in a different order.

The band themselves said that they were still unsure of the track order when they had the listening sessions (which, nearest I can tell, ended up bein the final order). This tells me that the order isn't entirely key to understanding or experiencing the album.

I didn't say this was the way it's supposed to be heard. I said that this order sounds better to me, just as everyone else in this thread has said their orders sound better to them. Someone else has expressed interest in a different order to the songs, and are willing to try it out instead of crying about how it's not the way it's supposed to be. Notice how 2and46 said that he usually ends up preferring the official track listing without sounding like a complete asshole? What I'm saying is: it couldn't hurt to take notes on such conversational skills.