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10-17-2006, 10:35 AM
These are the two most common versions of the line I've heard, and I take issue with both of them. I'll offer an alternate too, that might or might not have been discussed:
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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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People who favor this version interpret "lift an eye" as "give consideration to" or "entertain the possibility of." The point would be to deride those who don't consider the spiritual or afterlife, but that's the exact opposite of the message of this song. A large portion of the world's conflicts are spiritual in nature, with both sides' eyes locked on the afterlife and ideological correctness. Besides that flaw with this interpretation, there's also the fact that "being spiritual" isn't an ability to squander - "the ability to" implies some possible action, the actual outcome of choice, not a philosophical decision or the reasoning behind an action.
Quote:
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To live tonight in heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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If "tonight" is interpreted as the afterlife to our life's day, this is totally the opposite of what the song is about. If this was the line, then I'd be the repugnant one for not going to church or being concerned with the afterlife, and the suicide bomber who's convinced he'll "live tonight in heaven" would be in the right. I don't know if that's the "tonight" people think of when they read this line, but I got the impression it was.
The lyric, to me, sounds like:
Quote:
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To live tonight on heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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On heaven, not in heaven. This brings to mind the phrase "Heaven on Earth" and is about living in peace, having nothing to do with the afterlife. "Tonight" is interpreted as "soon" or "after a day's work," not as when the creature in question dies. I think this interpretation would work with the line "in heaven" too but "in heaven" has a different connotation.
Let me know what you think.
10-17-2006, 10:35 AM
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#1
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Avatar of the Gods (tdn $upporter)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: LA
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"Repugnant" line revisited
These are the two most common versions of the line I've heard, and I take issue with both of them. I'll offer an alternate too, that might or might not have been discussed:
Quote:
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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People who favor this version interpret "lift an eye" as "give consideration to" or "entertain the possibility of." The point would be to deride those who don't consider the spiritual or afterlife, but that's the exact opposite of the message of this song. A large portion of the world's conflicts are spiritual in nature, with both sides' eyes locked on the afterlife and ideological correctness. Besides that flaw with this interpretation, there's also the fact that "being spiritual" isn't an ability to squander - "the ability to" implies some possible action, the actual outcome of choice, not a philosophical decision or the reasoning behind an action.
Quote:
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To live tonight in heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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If "tonight" is interpreted as the afterlife to our life's day, this is totally the opposite of what the song is about. If this was the line, then I'd be the repugnant one for not going to church or being concerned with the afterlife, and the suicide bomber who's convinced he'll "live tonight in heaven" would be in the right. I don't know if that's the "tonight" people think of when they read this line, but I got the impression it was.
The lyric, to me, sounds like:
Quote:
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability,
To live tonight on heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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On heaven, not in heaven. This brings to mind the phrase "Heaven on Earth" and is about living in peace, having nothing to do with the afterlife. "Tonight" is interpreted as "soon" or "after a day's work," not as when the creature in question dies. I think this interpretation would work with the line "in heaven" too but "in heaven" has a different connotation.
Let me know what you think.
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These are interesting ideas...To me, it sounded like "Lift an eye to heaven" Since interpretation is quite subjective, I may as well give my two cents. For me, that line sort of had the meaning of just looking at the sky, looking around and appreciating the beauty of Earth/life. I sort of felt like it was a reproach of the fact that we have this limited amount of time on this planet and yet we get so caught up in all sorts of conflicts/worries/stuff that we forget about how beautiful nature, this life, etc can be.That's just what I drew from it though...
10-17-2006, 03:55 PM
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#2
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The land of chocolate
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
These are interesting ideas...To me, it sounded like "Lift an eye to heaven" Since interpretation is quite subjective, I may as well give my two cents. For me, that line sort of had the meaning of just looking at the sky, looking around and appreciating the beauty of Earth/life. I sort of felt like it was a reproach of the fact that we have this limited amount of time on this planet and yet we get so caught up in all sorts of conflicts/worries/stuff that we forget about how beautiful nature, this life, etc can be.That's just what I drew from it though...
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The line is obviously "repugnant is the/a creature whow would squandor the ability to llift an eye to heaven concious of his/its fleeting time here.
Stop trying to make maynard say what you want him to say and deal with the fact that he sometimes ponders that heaven is real. It's going to be ok. You don't have to think exactly what he does. The fact that he wrote the line doesn't even necessarily mean he believes in an afterlife. All great poets write things that they fell at the moment but might not believe all the time.
You are obviously worried that Maynard does not hate christianity, and wish he'd go back to screaming for jesus christ to blind him with his light.
10-17-2006, 04:57 PM
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#3
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Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
The line is obviously "repugnant is the/a creature whow would squandor the ability to llift an eye to heaven concious of his/its fleeting time here.
Stop trying to make maynard say what you want him to say and deal with the fact that he sometimes ponders that heaven is real. It's going to be ok. You don't have to think exactly what he does. The fact that he wrote the line doesn't even necessarily mean he believes in an afterlife. All great poets write things that they fell at the moment but might not believe all the time.
You are obviously worried that Maynard does not hate christianity, and wish he'd go back to screaming for jesus christ to blind him with his light.
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10-17-2006, 06:47 PM
I agree with BabyDal, I think Maynard is simply implying that we need to take a look around and consider the fact that no matter what bullshit is hindering our happiness we should appreciate life because we could be gone tomorrow.
10-17-2006, 06:47 PM
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#4
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Level 10 - Vehement
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
I agree with BabyDal, I think Maynard is simply implying that we need to take a look around and consider the fact that no matter what bullshit is hindering our happiness we should appreciate life because we could be gone tomorrow.
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I would say it speaks volumes that you can't say anything about christianity around here without being labled moron. I didn't say heaven was only a christian concept. I was only commenting on the obvious resentment towards christianity that is constantly displayed on these boards.
10-17-2006, 08:05 PM
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#5
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Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
I would say it speaks volumes that you can't say anything about christianity around here without being labled moron. I didn't say heaven was only a christian concept. I was only commenting on the obvious resentment towards christianity that is constantly displayed on these boards.
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10-17-2006, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse.cantrall
I would say it speaks volumes that you can't say anything about christianity around here without being labled moron. I didn't say heaven was only a christian concept. I was only commenting on the obvious resentment towards christianity that is constantly displayed on these boards.
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What "obvious resentment towards christianity" was present in the first post?
10-17-2006, 08:27 PM
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#6
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: West Springfield,MA
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse.cantrall
I would say it speaks volumes that you can't say anything about christianity around here without being labled moron. I didn't say heaven was only a christian concept. I was only commenting on the obvious resentment towards christianity that is constantly displayed on these boards.
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What "obvious resentment towards christianity" was present in the first post?
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10-17-2006, 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andorion
People who favor this version interpret "lift an eye" as "give consideration to" or "entertain the possibility of." The point would be to deride those who don't consider the spiritual or afterlife, but that's the exact opposite of the message of this song...
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Id say it was your interpritation of the messages in this song you should look at. Admitadly i havent payed it as much attention as i perhaps should... but i thought the whole song ridiculed the religious who beleive an almighty god put them on the earth to live in harmony, and then proceed to fight each other and destroy the world in their greed, yet all in the name of pleaseing that same god. The whole song laced with a sarcastic tone.
In which case i find this line to fit rather snuggly indeed...
10-17-2006, 10:57 PM
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#7
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 594
Bincount™: 104
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andorion
People who favor this version interpret "lift an eye" as "give consideration to" or "entertain the possibility of." The point would be to deride those who don't consider the spiritual or afterlife, but that's the exact opposite of the message of this song...
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Id say it was your interpritation of the messages in this song you should look at. Admitadly i havent payed it as much attention as i perhaps should... but i thought the whole song ridiculed the religious who beleive an almighty god put them on the earth to live in harmony, and then proceed to fight each other and destroy the world in their greed, yet all in the name of pleaseing that same god. The whole song laced with a sarcastic tone.
In which case i find this line to fit rather snuggly indeed...
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The first post did not contain any obvious resentment toward christianity, but it did exhibit at the best a hesitance to accept that the above mentioned line could be about the importance of considering the afterlife.
Also, I don't think it's absurd to suggest that the song is about the christian version of heaven. It uses many christian images: angels, father (god), and the garden of eden.
10-18-2006, 10:15 AM
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#8
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Banned.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
The first post did not contain any obvious resentment toward christianity, but it did exhibit at the best a hesitance to accept that the above mentioned line could be about the importance of considering the afterlife.
Also, I don't think it's absurd to suggest that the song is about the christian version of heaven. It uses many christian images: angels, father (god), and the garden of eden.
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10-18-2006, 02:17 PM
i always thought he said "repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift the light of heaven conscious of its fleeting time here."
there are obviously many Christian symbols in the song , most notably the garden of Eden ( as angels and god -whom he never directly references-are not exclusive to Christian dogma)
Also , who is the character in question? It is obviously someone looking in from the outside , a spectator rather than someone directly involved , it cannot be from the perspective of God himself since he mention the "Father" as a separate higher entity ( which rules out the entire trinity - jesus & the holy spirit ) , he can also not be an angel since, he seems to have a higher vantage point over them as well.
So who's singing?
He’s obviously impartial , rational and emotionally involved.
So who in Christian dogma has higher authority than the heiarchy of angels yet less than god , who is also rational and emotional ?
Lucifer anyone?
10-18-2006, 02:17 PM
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#9
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: long island
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
i always thought he said "repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift the light of heaven conscious of its fleeting time here."
there are obviously many Christian symbols in the song , most notably the garden of Eden ( as angels and god -whom he never directly references-are not exclusive to Christian dogma)
Also , who is the character in question? It is obviously someone looking in from the outside , a spectator rather than someone directly involved , it cannot be from the perspective of God himself since he mention the "Father" as a separate higher entity ( which rules out the entire trinity - jesus & the holy spirit ) , he can also not be an angel since, he seems to have a higher vantage point over them as well.
So who's singing?
He’s obviously impartial , rational and emotionally involved.
So who in Christian dogma has higher authority than the heiarchy of angels yet less than god , who is also rational and emotional ?
Lucifer anyone?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phorty
Lucifer anyone?
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Or Jesus?
I think the line in question is just a more eloquently written version of Aenima's lyrics. A disappointment in humanity's misguided energies: fighting over the ground we stand on and obsessing over trivial matters (latte's, contracts, and hairpieces), while missing the opportunity to do something more worthwhile. The christian imagery is just a tool for getting the message across, like the bullshit three ring circus and arizona bay was before.
10-18-2006, 03:35 PM
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#10
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: US
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phorty
Lucifer anyone?
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Or Jesus?
I think the line in question is just a more eloquently written version of Aenima's lyrics. A disappointment in humanity's misguided energies: fighting over the ground we stand on and obsessing over trivial matters (latte's, contracts, and hairpieces), while missing the opportunity to do something more worthwhile. The christian imagery is just a tool for getting the message across, like the bullshit three ring circus and arizona bay was before.
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10-18-2006, 05:01 PM
as far as the line goes your right on the money shifty.
10-18-2006, 05:01 PM
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#11
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: long island
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
as far as the line goes your right on the money shifty.
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11-01-2006, 10:37 PM
Just for the record: this whole line is a lyrical masterpiece.
Anyone...Bueller...Anyone?
11-01-2006, 10:37 PM
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#12
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: a field of dreams
Posts: 2,358
Bincount™: 4198
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Just for the record: this whole line is a lyrical masterpiece.
Anyone...Bueller...Anyone?
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The Christianity seems to me not to be a tool to the message of this song, but instead THE MESSAGE of the song. Look at all the people who think of themselves as good Christians, whether they are in the government, clergy or lay people. These people are positive that there is life beyond this, that God is waiting for them, yet what do they do...
11-15-2006, 09:28 PM
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#13
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On Probation
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: earth
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
The Christianity seems to me not to be a tool to the message of this song, but instead THE MESSAGE of the song. Look at all the people who think of themselves as good Christians, whether they are in the government, clergy or lay people. These people are positive that there is life beyond this, that God is waiting for them, yet what do they do...
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You know, maybe Christianity has NOTHING at all to do with this song. Maybe instead, Christian myth and fairy tales are used here as a vessel (A.K.A. "metaphor") to deliver Maynard's actual message, that humans are so damn stupid because they just can't seem to appreciate the world around them. All they want to do is drown themselves in conflict and destroy everything.
Since Maynard is using poetic license here, the line:
"Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here"
makes total sense. The word "heaven" doesn't necessarily have to refer to the Christian heaven either. Rather, it probably refers to our ability to get in touch with our divine/spiritual side. What separates us from the animals is our abilities to use reason to avoid conflict, to love, and to answer to a higher law, whether Christian or not, than that of our more carnal, bestial ancestors. It is repugnant that we know how little time we have on this planet, yet we still ignore these gifts, doing our best to make life worse for ourselves and everyone around us, rather than the exact opposite.
11-21-2006, 11:12 PM
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#14
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Level 1 - Lurker
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
You know, maybe Christianity has NOTHING at all to do with this song. Maybe instead, Christian myth and fairy tales are used here as a vessel (A.K.A. "metaphor") to deliver Maynard's actual message, that humans are so damn stupid because they just can't seem to appreciate the world around them. All they want to do is drown themselves in conflict and destroy everything.
Since Maynard is using poetic license here, the line:
"Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here"
makes total sense. The word "heaven" doesn't necessarily have to refer to the Christian heaven either. Rather, it probably refers to our ability to get in touch with our divine/spiritual side. What separates us from the animals is our abilities to use reason to avoid conflict, to love, and to answer to a higher law, whether Christian or not, than that of our more carnal, bestial ancestors. It is repugnant that we know how little time we have on this planet, yet we still ignore these gifts, doing our best to make life worse for ourselves and everyone around us, rather than the exact opposite.
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11-25-2006, 01:46 AM
just looking through this thread... i tihnk its a nice example of a trend that worries me around here. regarding religion, the whole idea of personal interpritation, and what it means to *"me"* seems to float out the window. i mean, everyone ahs to decide whether they think the message in this song is pro-christian or anti-christian or fairly un-christian related... but they seem to wish to make there decision the final one, as tho on this particular topic there has to be a definite answer.
i for one, take this song to have a particularly sarcastic tone, saying if god gave you all this stuff, and youv done what you have with it... how the angels must weep
however, that is how 'I' take the song. I do not formulate from this, maynards opinion on christianity, because aside from the fact that my opinion on the interpritation is far from gospel, judgeing ones beliefs drom a snippit one single song is extremely flimsy. It is highly possible for him to comment one point of religion (in this case, i would think its he hypocrcy and blindness some of the relgious hold) without makeing a blanket statement.
i remember before, reading things to the effect of "10k days is religious, so live with it" or "maynard has found some christian beleifs, he's changed, so put up with it"
however good at expressing emotions and beliefs through music... trying to guage his beliefs with one album as evidence... just lacks sense
11-25-2006, 01:46 AM
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#15
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 594
Bincount™: 104
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
just looking through this thread... i tihnk its a nice example of a trend that worries me around here. regarding religion, the whole idea of personal interpritation, and what it means to *"me"* seems to float out the window. i mean, everyone ahs to decide whether they think the message in this song is pro-christian or anti-christian or fairly un-christian related... but they seem to wish to make there decision the final one, as tho on this particular topic there has to be a definite answer.
i for one, take this song to have a particularly sarcastic tone, saying if god gave you all this stuff, and youv done what you have with it... how the angels must weep
however, that is how 'I' take the song. I do not formulate from this, maynards opinion on christianity, because aside from the fact that my opinion on the interpritation is far from gospel, judgeing ones beliefs drom a snippit one single song is extremely flimsy. It is highly possible for him to comment one point of religion (in this case, i would think its he hypocrcy and blindness some of the relgious hold) without makeing a blanket statement.
i remember before, reading things to the effect of "10k days is religious, so live with it" or "maynard has found some christian beleifs, he's changed, so put up with it"
however good at expressing emotions and beliefs through music... trying to guage his beliefs with one album as evidence... just lacks sense
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overthinking, overanalyzing separates the body from the mind...
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Touch Me, I'm Happy.
11-25-2006, 02:54 AM
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#16
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Level 4 - Thinker
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Location: Belet el Jjin
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
overthinking, overanalyzing separates the body from the mind...
__________________
Touch Me, I'm Happy.
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11-26-2006, 08:04 PM
I've always heard "Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" and the meaning I took from that was that the humans being described in the song as "talking monkeys" are wasting their time squabbling over so and so instead of using their time on earth productively. As animals, or monkeys in this case, don't have the intellectual capacity that humans do, all they can do is use their instinct for survival. But since humans have choice, not only instinct, they should use their time more purposefully.
11-26-2006, 08:04 PM
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#17
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Level 11 - Moogle (tdn $upporter)
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
I've always heard "Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" and the meaning I took from that was that the humans being described in the song as "talking monkeys" are wasting their time squabbling over so and so instead of using their time on earth productively. As animals, or monkeys in this case, don't have the intellectual capacity that humans do, all they can do is use their instinct for survival. But since humans have choice, not only instinct, they should use their time more purposefully.
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11-27-2006, 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyDal
These are interesting ideas...To me, it sounded like "Lift an eye to heaven" Since interpretation is quite subjective, I may as well give my two cents. For me, that line sort of had the meaning of just looking at the sky, looking around and appreciating the beauty of Earth/life. I sort of felt like it was a reproach of the fact that we have this limited amount of time on this planet and yet we get so caught up in all sorts of conflicts/worries/stuff that we forget about how beautiful nature, this life, etc can be.That's just what I drew from it though...
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I kinda feel that "lift an eye to heaven" is ones attempt to see beyond all this, and not just what we physically see here on earth and in life. That in the beginning there was light and love and that love is what we really fail to see. That the segregation and classifications we use for man kind is a shame and somehow tears away our ability to just love one another as God intended, to bring "heaven on earth". I had quite the conversation with a cab driver last weekend, for some reason I got on the topic of sin and and forgiveness and he is Muslim and I Catholic, and in our conversation I began to feel that we are not very different in our beliefs and values, which I was not surprised by. Either way this song came to mind and of course being drunk I talked about how it's a shame that mankind is going to destroy itself someday if we can't co-exist and he totally agreed with me and said, "this is true, as humanity, together we are a fist, but separated with are merely fingers and can be easily broken" not to say that a fist can't be broken, but the message is there. This is the point when I had to go, i shook that man's hand and told him god bless. His words will forever be with me and the good in his eyes and thoughts reminded me of the good in this song. The message is rather simple, why is it found so complicated by the media and it's pawns? I feel this song is almost a complete over view/beginning of some of the vast insight tool has to offer and probably the most spiritual since Parabola. It's something everyone should hear I think. It's almost seems as if that Maynard has taken a lesson/story from the bible and interpreted it properly instead of literally, which most people make the mistake of doing.
11-27-2006, 06:46 PM
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#18
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyDal
These are interesting ideas...To me, it sounded like "Lift an eye to heaven" Since interpretation is quite subjective, I may as well give my two cents. For me, that line sort of had the meaning of just looking at the sky, looking around and appreciating the beauty of Earth/life. I sort of felt like it was a reproach of the fact that we have this limited amount of time on this planet and yet we get so caught up in all sorts of conflicts/worries/stuff that we forget about how beautiful nature, this life, etc can be.That's just what I drew from it though...
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I kinda feel that "lift an eye to heaven" is ones attempt to see beyond all this, and not just what we physically see here on earth and in life. That in the beginning there was light and love and that love is what we really fail to see. That the segregation and classifications we use for man kind is a shame and somehow tears away our ability to just love one another as God intended, to bring "heaven on earth". I had quite the conversation with a cab driver last weekend, for some reason I got on the topic of sin and and forgiveness and he is Muslim and I Catholic, and in our conversation I began to feel that we are not very different in our beliefs and values, which I was not surprised by. Either way this song came to mind and of course being drunk I talked about how it's a shame that mankind is going to destroy itself someday if we can't co-exist and he totally agreed with me and said, "this is true, as humanity, together we are a fist, but separated with are merely fingers and can be easily broken" not to say that a fist can't be broken, but the message is there. This is the point when I had to go, i shook that man's hand and told him god bless. His words will forever be with me and the good in his eyes and thoughts reminded me of the good in this song. The message is rather simple, why is it found so complicated by the media and it's pawns? I feel this song is almost a complete over view/beginning of some of the vast insight tool has to offer and probably the most spiritual since Parabola. It's something everyone should hear I think. It's almost seems as if that Maynard has taken a lesson/story from the bible and interpreted it properly instead of literally, which most people make the mistake of doing.
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11-28-2006, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_failsafe
I kinda feel that "lift an eye to heaven" is ones attempt to see beyond all this, and not just what we physically see here on earth and in life. That in the beginning there was light and love and that love is what we really fail to see. That the segregation and classifications we use for man kind is a shame and somehow tears away our ability to just love one another as God intended, to bring "heaven on earth". I had quite the conversation with a cab driver last weekend, for some reason I got on the topic of sin and and forgiveness and he is Muslim and I Catholic, and in our conversation I began to feel that we are not very different in our beliefs and values, which I was not surprised by. Either way this song came to mind and of course being drunk I talked about how it's a shame that mankind is going to destroy itself someday if we can't co-exist and he totally agreed with me and said, "this is true, as humanity, together we are a fist, but separated with are merely fingers and can be easily broken" not to say that a fist can't be broken, but the message is there. This is the point when I had to go, i shook that man's hand and told him god bless. His words will forever be with me and the good in his eyes and thoughts reminded me of the good in this song. The message is rather simple, why is it found so complicated by the media and it's pawns? I feel this song is almost a complete over view/beginning of some of the vast insight tool has to offer and probably the most spiritual since Parabola. It's something everyone should hear I think. It's almost seems as if that Maynard has taken a lesson/story from the bible and interpreted it properly instead of literally, which most people make the mistake of doing.
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well said dave
11-28-2006, 12:16 PM
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#19
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Banned.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: land of Danes! Smoking baby friend: mooseifer
Posts: 2,406
Bincount™: 4277
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_failsafe
I kinda feel that "lift an eye to heaven" is ones attempt to see beyond all this, and not just what we physically see here on earth and in life. That in the beginning there was light and love and that love is what we really fail to see. That the segregation and classifications we use for man kind is a shame and somehow tears away our ability to just love one another as God intended, to bring "heaven on earth". I had quite the conversation with a cab driver last weekend, for some reason I got on the topic of sin and and forgiveness and he is Muslim and I Catholic, and in our conversation I began to feel that we are not very different in our beliefs and values, which I was not surprised by. Either way this song came to mind and of course being drunk I talked about how it's a shame that mankind is going to destroy itself someday if we can't co-exist and he totally agreed with me and said, "this is true, as humanity, together we are a fist, but separated with are merely fingers and can be easily broken" not to say that a fist can't be broken, but the message is there. This is the point when I had to go, i shook that man's hand and told him god bless. His words will forever be with me and the good in his eyes and thoughts reminded me of the good in this song. The message is rather simple, why is it found so complicated by the media and it's pawns? I feel this song is almost a complete over view/beginning of some of the vast insight tool has to offer and probably the most spiritual since Parabola. It's something everyone should hear I think. It's almost seems as if that Maynard has taken a lesson/story from the bible and interpreted it properly instead of literally, which most people make the mistake of doing.
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well said dave
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12-01-2006, 12:49 AM
exactly, "lift an eye to heaven" doesn't mean "think about religious dogma" it means in fact, "forget about the dogma and focus on the divine"
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12-01-2006, 12:49 AM
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#20
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Guntersville, Al
Posts: 715
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
exactly, "lift an eye to heaven" doesn't mean "think about religious dogma" it means in fact, "forget about the dogma and focus on the divine"
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12-02-2006, 11:40 AM
I don't think maynard buys into christian dogma, but he does use the references because wether you believe it or don't, you know about it. Its something you can relate to. When he says " To lift an eye to heaven conscious of his fleeting time here" it doesn't say "lift an eye to Jesus, Buddha, or anyone else. It says "Heaven" In disregarding Christian lore, the word means "space" or maybe "a place of extreme happiness" to me. The line tells me to stop looking down and look up--towards the infinity of space (the heavens) because that's where we are going (on the spiral) because our time on this place is fleeting...i know, kind of unorganized, but I hope you can follow....
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There's a shyness found in reason....
12-02-2006, 11:40 AM
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#21
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: CC,TX
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
I don't think maynard buys into christian dogma, but he does use the references because wether you believe it or don't, you know about it. Its something you can relate to. When he says " To lift an eye to heaven conscious of his fleeting time here" it doesn't say "lift an eye to Jesus, Buddha, or anyone else. It says "Heaven" In disregarding Christian lore, the word means "space" or maybe "a place of extreme happiness" to me. The line tells me to stop looking down and look up--towards the infinity of space (the heavens) because that's where we are going (on the spiral) because our time on this place is fleeting...i know, kind of unorganized, but I hope you can follow....
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12-02-2006, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phorty
Lucifer anyone?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shifty50fs
Or Jesus?
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The song isn't being sung from one static viewpoint.
The first part, the introduction to the scene, if you will, is "Angels on the sideline" and it goes on to describe them as " baffled and confused"
From that point on it is the conversation of the angels.
This alternates somewhat from verse to verse, but in general, it can be said that if there is a line describing the angels it is a 3rd party generic narrator without identity. If the line is about an aspect of the human condition, it is being stated from the point of the angels.
And then ultimately, if the line as I understand it is correct "Cutting my law right in two" (said everytime, by the way) then that would be the voice of "god".
Songs don't have to be from one point of view guys. Especially songs that are by bands that have good lyricists. Maynard is pretty close to the top in that catagory.
Don't be so eager to try to figure out who's telling the story just so it makes one opinion seem more right than another... I think that's kind of the spirit of the song in the first place.
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The end? You've obviously never experienced 'The Loop' ©Ayahuasca
Self-affirming? Oxymoronic. We are all one mind
12-02-2006, 03:21 PM
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#22
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: May 2006
Location: waking dreams
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phorty
Lucifer anyone?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shifty50fs
Or Jesus?
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The song isn't being sung from one static viewpoint.
The first part, the introduction to the scene, if you will, is "Angels on the sideline" and it goes on to describe them as " baffled and confused"
From that point on it is the conversation of the angels.
This alternates somewhat from verse to verse, but in general, it can be said that if there is a line describing the angels it is a 3rd party generic narrator without identity. If the line is about an aspect of the human condition, it is being stated from the point of the angels.
And then ultimately, if the line as I understand it is correct "Cutting my law right in two" (said everytime, by the way) then that would be the voice of "god".
Songs don't have to be from one point of view guys. Especially songs that are by bands that have good lyricists. Maynard is pretty close to the top in that catagory.
Don't be so eager to try to figure out who's telling the story just so it makes one opinion seem more right than another... I think that's kind of the spirit of the song in the first place.
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The end? You've obviously never experienced 'The Loop' ©Ayahuasca
Self-affirming? Oxymoronic. We are all one mind
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12-02-2006, 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim39n
exactly, "lift an eye to heaven" doesn't mean "think about religious dogma" it means in fact, "forget about the dogma and focus on the divine"
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I find though that the "dogma" as you put is different people with different visions forming their own interpretations of the "devine". I think the only important thing is that we all come to a conclusion here is that there is no end to the life within us and we should try and be conscious of this. It seems to make us better people.
12-02-2006, 07:46 PM
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#23
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim39n
exactly, "lift an eye to heaven" doesn't mean "think about religious dogma" it means in fact, "forget about the dogma and focus on the divine"
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I find though that the "dogma" as you put is different people with different visions forming their own interpretations of the "devine". I think the only important thing is that we all come to a conclusion here is that there is no end to the life within us and we should try and be conscious of this. It seems to make us better people.
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I think this song meaning's goes quite well with the meaning and actions of this thread. Because everyone is doing exactly what he is saying. Kind of ironic.
12-03-2006, 10:24 AM
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#24
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Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Earth
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
I think this song meaning's goes quite well with the meaning and actions of this thread. Because everyone is doing exactly what he is saying. Kind of ironic.
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12-03-2006, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_failsafe
I find though that the "dogma" as you put is different people with different visions forming their own interpretations of the "devine". I think the only important thing is that we all come to a conclusion here is that there is no end to the life within us and we should try and be conscious of this. It seems to make us better people.
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exactly, one needs to put aside what the little disagreements, stop taking everything and dividing it in to a million pieces, and take a second to remember that we are eternal. when you look at everything from that perspective you start to realize that humans will be humans and they are flawed, but it's not worth all this bickering and fighting and killing. people get so caught up in the labels "i am muslim, he is jew" "i am straight, he is gay" "i am white, he is black" "i am liberal, he is conservative" when really, we're all just human. we are repugnant because so often we let out differences get the best of us, often to the point of killing.
"lift an eye to heaven" = "remember that we have an eternal soul, and our mortal disagrements are trivial when compared with eternity"
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12-03-2006, 01:44 PM
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#25
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Guntersville, Al
Posts: 715
Bincount™: 707
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_failsafe
I find though that the "dogma" as you put is different people with different visions forming their own interpretations of the "devine". I think the only important thing is that we all come to a conclusion here is that there is no end to the life within us and we should try and be conscious of this. It seems to make us better people.
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exactly, one needs to put aside what the little disagreements, stop taking everything and dividing it in to a million pieces, and take a second to remember that we are eternal. when you look at everything from that perspective you start to realize that humans will be humans and they are flawed, but it's not worth all this bickering and fighting and killing. people get so caught up in the labels "i am muslim, he is jew" "i am straight, he is gay" "i am white, he is black" "i am liberal, he is conservative" when really, we're all just human. we are repugnant because so often we let out differences get the best of us, often to the point of killing.
"lift an eye to heaven" = "remember that we have an eternal soul, and our mortal disagrements are trivial when compared with eternity"
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12-07-2006, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesicapiscis
I think this song meaning's goes quite well with the meaning and actions of this thread. Because everyone is doing exactly what he is saying. Kind of ironic.
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Sorry oh insightful one... didn't know the song was about an internet thread discussing the meaning of lyrics.
12-07-2006, 02:02 PM
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#26
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesicapiscis
I think this song meaning's goes quite well with the meaning and actions of this thread. Because everyone is doing exactly what he is saying. Kind of ironic.
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Sorry oh insightful one... didn't know the song was about an internet thread discussing the meaning of lyrics.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_failsafe
Sorry oh insightful one... didn't know the song was about an internet thread discussing the meaning of lyrics.
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Sorry that you have issues. Maybe you should listen to the song and chill out.
12-07-2006, 03:55 PM
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#27
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Level 2 - Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Earth
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_failsafe
Sorry oh insightful one... didn't know the song was about an internet thread discussing the meaning of lyrics.
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Sorry that you have issues. Maybe you should listen to the song and chill out.
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12-07-2006, 09:08 PM
That's a beautiful knife you've got there... Thumbs... blades... connections?
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The end? You've obviously never experienced 'The Loop' ©Ayahuasca
Self-affirming? Oxymoronic. We are all one mind
12-07-2006, 09:08 PM
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#28
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: May 2006
Location: waking dreams
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
That's a beautiful knife you've got there... Thumbs... blades... connections?
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Self-affirming? Oxymoronic. We are all one mind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_christ
You know, maybe Christianity has NOTHING at all to do with this song. Maybe instead, Christian myth and fairy tales are used here as a vessel (A.K.A. "metaphor") to deliver Maynard's actual message, that humans are so damn stupid because they just can't seem to appreciate the world around them. All they want to do is drown themselves in conflict and destroy everything.
Since Maynard is using poetic license here, the line:
"Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here"
makes total sense. The word "heaven" doesn't necessarily have to refer to the Christian heaven either. Rather, it probably refers to our ability to get in touch with our divine/spiritual side. What separates us from the animals is our abilities to use reason to avoid conflict, to love, and to answer to a higher law, whether Christian or not, than that of our more carnal, bestial ancestors. It is repugnant that we know how little time we have on this planet, yet we still ignore these gifts, doing our best to make life worse for ourselves and everyone around us, rather than the exact opposite.
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i agree with this. people who only focus on the material aspect of life live and die without doing anything to figure out what we are here for. They do not advance or evolve spiritually at all. They have wasted an opportunity to advance on the path of return. They will have to wait for another incarnation and try to learn again. They have miised the boat so to speak and gained nothing from all their squabling and fighting. in fact, even worse is that they have added to the mass confusion.
12-09-2006, 04:59 PM
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#29
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Level 1 - Lurker
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: philadelphia
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_christ
You know, maybe Christianity has NOTHING at all to do with this song. Maybe instead, Christian myth and fairy tales are used here as a vessel (A.K.A. "metaphor") to deliver Maynard's actual message, that humans are so damn stupid because they just can't seem to appreciate the world around them. All they want to do is drown themselves in conflict and destroy everything.
Since Maynard is using poetic license here, the line:
"Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here"
makes total sense. The word "heaven" doesn't necessarily have to refer to the Christian heaven either. Rather, it probably refers to our ability to get in touch with our divine/spiritual side. What separates us from the animals is our abilities to use reason to avoid conflict, to love, and to answer to a higher law, whether Christian or not, than that of our more carnal, bestial ancestors. It is repugnant that we know how little time we have on this planet, yet we still ignore these gifts, doing our best to make life worse for ourselves and everyone around us, rather than the exact opposite.
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i agree with this. people who only focus on the material aspect of life live and die without doing anything to figure out what we are here for. They do not advance or evolve spiritually at all. They have wasted an opportunity to advance on the path of return. They will have to wait for another incarnation and try to learn again. They have miised the boat so to speak and gained nothing from all their squabling and fighting. in fact, even worse is that they have added to the mass confusion.
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12-10-2006, 04:42 PM
Here's what it is...
Repugnant is the creature who would squander the ability,
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of its fleeting time here.
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Picking off cheerleaders one by one
12-10-2006, 04:42 PM
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#30
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern NJ
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Here's what it is...
Repugnant is the creature who would squander the ability,
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of its fleeting time here.
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Debbie's smiling and waving her gun...
Picking off cheerleaders one by one
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01-01-2007, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aronman
I agree with BabyDal, I think Maynard is simply implying that we need to take a look around and consider the fact that no matter what bullshit is hindering our happiness we should appreciate life because we could be gone tomorrow.
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Thats goddamn right
01-01-2007, 09:13 PM
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#31
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: St. LOUIS
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aronman
I agree with BabyDal, I think Maynard is simply implying that we need to take a look around and consider the fact that no matter what bullshit is hindering our happiness we should appreciate life because we could be gone tomorrow.
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Thats goddamn right
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01-05-2007, 09:47 AM
wow...you all do some extensive....trying.... hard to figure out this stuff. Okay okay here's what I think this is so special...so special..my precious....
Okay I think that I shouldn't think what I think maynard is thinking when he writes this SONG. I mean, okay okay okay, obviously us lower class ROCK STAR fans have nothing better to do than make/spend moolah, and then try to figure out things about people that are a higher class to make us feel better because we feel if we figure them out then we are like them and it kind of isolates us from who we really are...WE ARE SCUM!!!! EMBRACE THE SCUMMAGE!!!!!! breathe in union my fellow non deep thinking creative rock star scum....breathe in union.....
01-05-2007, 09:47 AM
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#32
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California for now
Posts: 443
Bincount™: 906
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
wow...you all do some extensive....trying.... hard to figure out this stuff. Okay okay here's what I think this is so special...so special..my precious....
Okay I think that I shouldn't think what I think maynard is thinking when he writes this SONG. I mean, okay okay okay, obviously us lower class ROCK STAR fans have nothing better to do than make/spend moolah, and then try to figure out things about people that are a higher class to make us feel better because we feel if we figure them out then we are like them and it kind of isolates us from who we really are...WE ARE SCUM!!!! EMBRACE THE SCUMMAGE!!!!!! breathe in union my fellow non deep thinking creative rock star scum....breathe in union.....
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01-05-2007, 09:50 AM
okay either that or make some wine....and then hire employees (okay honestly I dont know who does the hiring) that treat everyone (excluding any 40-60 year olds) that goes there like A FRIGGIN GROUPIE!!!!! You people...you disgust! But you look good doing it!!!!
01-05-2007, 09:50 AM
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#33
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California for now
Posts: 443
Bincount™: 906
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
okay either that or make some wine....and then hire employees (okay honestly I dont know who does the hiring) that treat everyone (excluding any 40-60 year olds) that goes there like A FRIGGIN GROUPIE!!!!! You people...you disgust! But you look good doing it!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim39n
exactly, "lift an eye to heaven" doesn't mean "think about religious dogma" it means in fact, "forget about the dogma and focus on the divine"
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I always liked to think of "lifting an eye to heaven" more in this regard, as in our third eye.
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Live inspired.
01-05-2007, 11:32 AM
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#34
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vicinity of Obscenity
Posts: 546
Bincount™: 372
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim39n
exactly, "lift an eye to heaven" doesn't mean "think about religious dogma" it means in fact, "forget about the dogma and focus on the divine"
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I always liked to think of "lifting an eye to heaven" more in this regard, as in our third eye.
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Live inspired.
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01-05-2007, 11:54 AM
what do you mean third eye...
i know what the third eye is but what makes you say that...
I could say "well I think this song is about chocolate" and leave it open to interpretation as you have...
so...yeah okay the third eye blah blah blah....that is a very vague statement...please elaborate....
01-05-2007, 11:54 AM
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#35
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California for now
Posts: 443
Bincount™: 906
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
what do you mean third eye...
i know what the third eye is but what makes you say that...
I could say "well I think this song is about chocolate" and leave it open to interpretation as you have...
so...yeah okay the third eye blah blah blah....that is a very vague statement...please elaborate....
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01-05-2007, 12:02 PM
It's great that you guys are so interested in decoding Tool's music...but keep this in mind...people seem to think that everyone of tool songs is about a certain thing...like uuhhh..take for example i've read people's opinions on about 15 songs and they seem to come up with the same conclusion. It's either about Religion, people being dumb, maynard hating people, or "using your third eye". But THINK !!!!!.... an artist never paints the same picture over and over again.....
01-05-2007, 12:02 PM
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#36
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California for now
Posts: 443
Bincount™: 906
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
It's great that you guys are so interested in decoding Tool's music...but keep this in mind...people seem to think that everyone of tool songs is about a certain thing...like uuhhh..take for example i've read people's opinions on about 15 songs and they seem to come up with the same conclusion. It's either about Religion, people being dumb, maynard hating people, or "using your third eye". But THINK !!!!!.... an artist never paints the same picture over and over again.....
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01-05-2007, 01:31 PM
I dont think there is anything wrong with a groupie, I am a groupie! I lust after various groups..its my life mission!!!
01-05-2007, 01:31 PM
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#37
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
I dont think there is anything wrong with a groupie, I am a groupie! I lust after various groups..its my life mission!!!
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01-05-2007, 01:35 PM
Snugglepoop,
I think you should leave and never come back. They COULD have your head for that comment...
01-05-2007, 01:35 PM
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#38
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: California for now
Posts: 443
Bincount™: 906
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Snugglepoop,
I think you should leave and never come back. They COULD have your head for that comment...
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01-05-2007, 02:23 PM
Hobblegobble,
I think you need to go home and eat more turkey, or I will have your head!
01-05-2007, 02:23 PM
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#39
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
Hobblegobble,
I think you need to go home and eat more turkey, or I will have your head!
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01-05-2007, 02:24 PM
and what the heck is a third eye?
01-05-2007, 02:24 PM
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#40
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC
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Re: "Repugnant" line revisited
and what the heck is a third eye?
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