Yeah I think that Trail Of Dead is heavy punk. And you're example is flawed. Trail Of Dead incorporated punk into their music. Have yous seen their shows? What I saw was definitely a punk show. If I were to say that they were Shoegazer or Pop because they like My Bloody Valentine and Pet Sounds then I'd agree with you. Britney Spears doesn't incorporate anything she hears because she's completely orriginal. Like that song Not A Girl Not Yet A Woman or something. It's like she's at a point where she's not old enough to take on the responsibilites and problems of adult life... but not too young to have sex.
And I didn't mean shit like tenis shoes and waterbottles, I mean actual shit. People got some feces and threw it at the band for making bad music. People there spit on them too.
Yep, I had KoRn. I actually spent money on it. I know exactly what those songs sound like. But come on, most of that record is just about how people are totally FAKE. Ball toung was about some asshole they knew, Divine is about how people are totally FAKE, Need To was an alright song at best, Faget, well I've said enough about that song, Lies, Predictable, Clown, are all about how people are totally FAKE. And then Blind is about drugs, and its an alright song, but I would never want to listen to it again. Helmet In The Bush is about drugs, and while I thought that was my personal favorite from the album, I think it is also terrible. What's that seventh one? The one with bagpipes that's about how nursery rhymes are dark... ooh man they're gettin political now, it's like society is dark and they're telling us these dark things and now they're saying it the without the total FAKEness of society. That song so doesn't rock. Then there's Daddy. Alright, that had emotion and was about something personal. Extremely personal. But he said "I'm all done." Yet he released the same record again but with less and less of what made KoRn slightly listenable. I mean yeah on Life Is Peachy he had a few songs that were meant to just be rocked to, which is good, but lets look at them: Twist- annoying. ADIDAS- well... all day I dream about sex... need I go on? Wicked- was alright, but wan't really something that was really rockin. Kunt- uhhuh, good joke for the band but why actually put that on the album? Then look at all the emotional songs on that album. His best one is about how Mr. Rogers is so totally FAKE. Man, he was runnin out of ideas there. And he hasn't got any since then.
311 I didn't really like ever. Hey why write all this. I'm just saying I don't like either of those bands.
But SY did something with Ice Tea. That rocks/sucks.
Just like the Del Dinosaur Jr. song probably is tight/terrible.
after reading through this thread i realised that a lot of the people(including me) rule out a band purely because of what genre they are in.
On the previous page i was knocking pop, by pop i was reffering to brittany spears and all that crap. Now i think that my deffinition of pop has expanded and rather than completely avoiding pop, techno, whatever i am looking at things from a new angle. Listen to the song and see if I like it as a song and not because of what genre it is in.
I say forget genres.
This thread is beginning to sound redundant. I don't want to point fingers at anyone, however I think it is necessary to address one specific member of the Tool Opinion page in order to get my point across.
J1516 I'm going to say that I respect your opinion. I don't agree with you, but I'm going to take into account that you are a living, breathing and thinking human being who THINKS first before he/she posts. I also want to say that your dismissal of EVERYONE ELSE'S opinion is completely appalling, and as much as I'd like to declare you a fucking moron and type up these long lengthy posts about how fucking retarded you sound when you post the shit you do, I'm not going to. Instead, I'm going to bring up a point that I think most people here get, and since I'm tired of reading your rants about a fascinating subject that I'm too intrigued to stay away from, I'm going to have to address this.
Music is a SUBJECTIVE element. There are no definite GOODS, and no definite BADS. There are things that people don't like, and things that people do. Whether you like it or not, people ARE going to like things that you DON'T like. I've had girlfriends hate the bands that I absolutely love, and although it pains me that they can't see the absolute beauty in Mike Patton going on the same stage as Incubus with a sticker that says "I love boys" on his keyboard, and realize that he's fuckin' kidding, and that it's a goddamned joke, her opinion as a thinking (just barely) creature is appreciated because it wasn't mine. I don't personally like Limp Bizkit, or any of the Limp Bizkit wanna-be bands, but the fact that they make/play music which does not nurture their listeners to look inside themselves for deep reflection is their own deal (and for those who listen to it). For those listeners (the friends that I've spoken with that enjoy listening to Limp Bizkit), there is a totally different element in their soul when they hear L.B. and with it, they sometimes DO do something positive (i.e. workout, release some tension, etc.) That is their own business and who the fuck am I to look down upon them for using their music in that way. I look to music to educate me (in being a musician), to inspire me to explore myself and pique my creativity, and to enhance my moods/emotions to whatever I'm feeling at that time. I may listen to some "smooth jazz" because of a certain feeling, and then maybe some Death because I'm feeling another way. That's MY deal. That's for ME to deal with. And whoever doesn't like the fact that I like Mr. Bungle, or Deftones, or Alien Ant Farm... fuck them. It's MY experience, and they're not going to take that away from me... it's not theirs to take.
That didn't have anything to do with the music industry. That is a completely different rant, and possibly a bit contradictory to what I just said, since I feel that the labels peddle their wares at the masses who sheepishly... see? Told you. Another thread. another thread.
Respect and love one another. This world is all we've got.
But I personally reprimanded J, and he did apologize, and now I've seen people are just antagonizing him.
I, too, hated his bullshit posts and ranting about how much other people's music sucks. Especially since he attacked me personally.
I agree there's a lot of haughty talk of who's bands are better, and whatnot, but the fact is that there's two types of music. There's the stuff that's made to reflect and uplift and such, the artisitic, and then there's the stuff that just plain sells. The stuff that's out to make money. The stuff sold on image, rather than music. THAT'S what we should be arguing about, as this is aimed at the INDUSTRY, rather than who likes who's bands.
I like music that is generally regarded as "pop", as well as myriad other types/genres. Dismissing music based on genre, as we've all agreed (even J1516), is bullshit. It's all a matter of taste.
But what ISN'T is when MUSIC is made just to make MONEY. THAT'S the subject of this thread. Should people buy albums just because they look flashy or the girls (or boys) are flaunting their good looks?
The problem is the (major) labels aren't concerned with artistry, but with the bottom line.
Please forgive me. Before I posted, I read and re-read the posts prior to making my own, and saw the very looseminded reactive comments that were being made and out of disgust made the same mistake that J had done by posting some of my own thoughts out of hasty reaction.
About the music industry, I do agree. I've had talks with some in the production business and managers and such, and what I've found is that mostly the art is compromised to fit the demographics and other "research" and bullshit that the marketing executives put together to "project" how an album is going to do.
Knowing this, I highly question the opinions that mainstream music is "the greatest music". The mainstream to me feels the most distant, with few diamonds among the rough. I've flipped through the radio (usually listening to talk radio stations) and fall upon some music that I don't mind at all, some song that the radio had fallen upon and decided they would play that rather than what the marketing execs let them (or pay them for...). That is an anomally. Usually, in stopping at a radio channel to hear what is going on, the station is playing some kind of redundant material from a group that has little business in making a song. Although it is their perrogative to write the song, it still sucks. Few times is this not the case.
Rickie, you are correct my friend. This IS about the 2 kinds of music. I think that message got lost. Thanks for bringing it out again.
I'm not sure if I'm right, since im 17, but it seems to me, that generally, music 20, or 30 years ago was much better than it is now. There's a lot of music that I could bitch about, but I won't. Seems like its already been done here. Also regarding Limp bizkit/Linkin Park and the like, I recall a quote Maynard said in an interview, though I forget where it was from. 'Those bands (Limp bizkit, linkin park etc) shouldn't even be classified as music. They're really just a clever marketing idea'
Man, I've been reading way too much tool stuff...
__________________ serve yourself no one else can do for you like you no one else fails like me
in my eyes i burn alive fly like a bird no more words just you and i high in the sky
nerdlover of blacktulip
Re: A collection of Letters pertaining to the music industry.
WOW! This group sounds like the late prohpet Bill Hick's proverbial "People that hate Other People" party he was trying to organize. I think everyone in here can agree that when their immersed in the pop-culture horse-shit and glam-rap, they feel like some kind of raw nerve in the kosmos (a la Ken Wilber) that's being perpetually irritated. The shallow, extraversion of our collective unconscous by fevered little egos is indeed daily hell for those of us with souls left.
I imagine we each all know of dozens of bands and musicians, each talented and sucessful to their own degree, who never-the-less are robbed of vital and deserved exposure by the myrmidons of mechanical adulation at MTV and KISS FM and whatever other wastes of wave-length, band-width, and space who lavish it instead on the most abject and asperitious expressions of music imaginable. Or, as the late prophet put it so eloquently, those "Sucking Satan's Pecker"
Oh well, some day, over the rainbow, I like to think we'll get to do with their ilk what I once heard attributed to Maynard through a tatoo-artist in Michigan when asked what he thought about our American Idols, "Burn them at the Stake"
At any rate, J1516 and Paraflux just go to demonstrate opinions are indeed like assholes, because you have two well-articulated arguements being demonstrated that fall on opposite sides of the fence. However, me, myself, and I, and I think I speak for all three of us, I gotta say, 311 is the shit. It's the second most-listened to band for me behind probably Tool. "From Chaos" , "Come Original", "Lateralus", and "The Grudge" are all songs that have been my marching tunes for a long time. And the truth is, J1516, the two bands have a lot more than you're probably allowing for.
As a matter of fact, this myriad of epistles is actually all summed up in the 311 lyrics in Come Original,
"Come original you got to come original
All entertainers come original
You got to come original you got to come original
All entertainers
Hear why
To come original it ain't nothin' strange
You got to represent you got come full range
Full range of emotion full range of styles
When you come to town you'll have them
comin' for miles
Come full range like Hexum and Martinez would tell you. That's what I think we all want in our music. And good music will have the same effect as pot like Eight-Ball would tell you on "Sesshead Funk Junky" , " ( it goes) Straight to a nigga's brain, that's what me a junkie, it keeps my head bobbin to whatever sounds funky, if I was down with Nancy Reagan I'd say no to drugs. But I'm in orange Mound with pimps and killer-thugs"
Happy Holidays all.
BS To borrow from Randall, "For the record: the Beetles sucked ass"
BSS Weezer isn't pop. Bands like Weezer, the Marvelous Three, and Cake are just the jokes on Pop music they haven't gotten yet. Much to the rest of our amusement.
I've been away for a while, and for a minute I thought I was going to be the only person sticking up for 311. They have always talked about enlightenment through positive thinking, and while not everyone can relate to that path, tey do it quite well. I enjoy the older stuff more, Music, Grassroots, and especially Transistor (notice I left out the blue album). Examples of lyrics pertaining to enlightenment...
From Music
"My Stoney Baby"
"The fish who keep on swimming are the first to chill out upstream. I watch you swim right by me, thats the way it has to be. The songs I sing, they dont mean a thing if you're not there to hear it, but then, soon is the time, you'll be by my side..."
From Grassroots
"Taiyed"
the entire song is about being uplifted. SA at his best.
From Transistor
"Galaxy"
"I found a bootleg of the cosmic conscious then erased it, visualized the breath technique, slowly became it, now something is watching me since I have found the key to free this energy, my high speed light-body. The galaxy is crazy, so it doesnt amaze me that we're living out of phase, and quickly decaying. 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons is encoded in this plane we live on..."
And there are plenty of other examples, on every album. I just love these guys, especially for inspiring me and many others during a time period (93-95) when music needed some fresh air.
I thought we were trying to get away from this condescending "Your band sucks because I say it does" crap. I happen to like Weezer, and while I do agree that it's getting much more accessible to the general public than it used to be, I think Rivers' heart is in the right place (with HIS band anyway... this whole being on the next Bizkit album is bullshit).
Again, I point out that genres in and of themselves are retarded. With the exception of classical, jazz, country, and rap, there really aren't a whole lot of set genres. And hell, even in those ones, there's blending or sub-genres. And on top of that, some people consider some of THOSE to be pop, TOO. I've always tried to refrain from putting a label on any music, and I think Tool's is a good example of that. While they have prog, metal, and industrial leanings, they're still just Tool. No single word can discribe them, as is the same with any music made for the artistry (and fun) of it.
Drawing lines just creates division and the situation we're experiencing in here, just a bunch of bullshit one-upping, and it annoys me to no end. If you're going to say something in this thread, make it relavent and interesting, don't just say "_____ sucks, I don't care what you say," or repeat what everyone else has already said. Be thoughtful and intelligent and POLITE, or get the hell out.
