I know Tool has been compared to PinK Floyd and King Crimson and I think it's becoming more than a musical comparison. MJK is quickly becoming as arrogant and belligerent as Roger Waters and Robert Fripp. Maybe it's a good thing he now sings at the back of the stage. This way no one will get spit upon.
Why don’t they do H, 3rd Eye, Prison Sex or Hooker with a Penis live anymore?
AJ: Because Maynard picks the set list he feels comfortable with singing.
Hopefully this settles who is responsible for the setlist.
I remember reading that over on TA and thinking "So, do Danny, Justin, and Adamn have no say in the setlist or do they have like a 15-20% vote and Mr. Divo gets the other 80-85% of the vote in terms of what'll be played?"
I'm comparing a Lateralus show (2001) to a 10,000 Days show. Barring a few minutes they have the same length.
Somehow people have a memory that makes them think the Lateralus shows did last much longer (2 hours... or so) but when analysed that is not true.
So around 90 minutes is pretty standard for Tool. Even in 2001.
I would say you are partially correct. You are correct in that the combined length of the songs from a Lateralus tour date and a 10k days tour date are about the same, 90 minutes. However, due to interludes, a little experimental jamming here and there, an intermission/break, the show lasted about 2 hours.
I think the complaint now is that even with all of those things, it is only lasting about 90 minutes because they are simply playing less songs than they did on either of those tours, at least at the first 2 dates.
Any insight as to why there are only "partial" stage projections this time? I can only assume $$$, as those extra projectors needed are expensive? Or is it a lighting issue? I noticed about mid-way through the 2007 tours (US, specifically, sometime between the Pensacola and Jacksonville shows) that Maynard started putting a black carpet-like thing on his section of the riser. Was he just tired of being "lit up" at that point?
I'm sure it's not as dramatic as everyone sometimes assumes, but still... it must be "interesting" putting together a live show for four completely unique (demanding?) personalities.
__________________ "Brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors, vibrations in the mind of the one true god whose name is Love.." -William Melvin Hicks
McRoggles no one is arguing about 2006-2007 10,000 days setlist time vs Lateralus setlist time. We're arguing about why THIS tour has been severely cut down to about 1:30-1:40.
Any insight as to why there are only "partial" stage projections this time? I can only assume $$$, as those extra projectors needed are expensive? Or is it a lighting issue? I noticed about mid-way through the 2007 tours (US, specifically, sometime between the Pensacola and Jacksonville shows) that Maynard started putting a black carpet-like thing on his section of the riser. Was he just tired of being "lit up" at that point?
I'm sure it's not as dramatic as everyone sometimes assumes, but still... it must be "interesting" putting together a live show for four completely unique (demanding?) personalities.
Mostly just trying something different.
The full stage projection looked great, but I think it also took some of the dynamics out of the look of the show. Video projectors never go completely black without using some sort of external shuttering to block the "video black", which is actually grey.
hey junior,
what time will Tool hit the stage in albuquerque?
anyone else with info on opening acts and ToolStart time on this current tour?
Thanks.
I usually don't see the start time for individual shows until the day of the show.
The "normal" has been some time around 9 or so.
I have to be there all day (9am-midnight [or later]), anyway, so I don't pay that close of attention to it.
I've been really into The Patient lately. I hope they surprise us and play it at some of these shows. Maybe even Parabol/Parabola. A man can dream...
Those are the songs I was praying to hear actually haha. I was waiting "patiently," and was let the fuck down when Maynard did his usual "peace out" bit before a sloppy performance of Vicarious. Still really hung up on spending so much money to see the same show I saw in December of 2007. Actually it wasnt the same show, the December show was SPOT ON, beyond inspired and mind blowing. The SLC show two nights ago, not so much. Actually, not at all.
I was really optimstic though when Maynard came out talking and being light hearted. But towards the end I was shaking my head in disappointment. Seriously, I never thought I would sit back and shake my head in disappointment at a Tool show. Hell, I never thought the mysiticism that Tool presented to me would go away, and it certainly has.
Traveling 5 hours + gas+ hotel to see what went on in that arena was not worth it to me, and Ive only seem then 4 times now. Oh well. I guess Ill just pretend I didnt waste my money and time and keep the other 3 amazing shows Ive seen in the memory bank.
And to all those saying "dont bitch," we have the total right. Recently (last 5-10 years) Tool doesnt come out and tour after a solid 2 year run. They wait til the next album to get back on the road. Since they are touring in between, it seems fishy. Is it just about money? Really, you've gotta ask yourself that when you see the set lists, and see how uninspired they are playing compared to the last tour run. Ill give my props to the 3 major components and heart of the band (Justin, Danny and Adam) they were playing with love and inspiration it seemed. Maynard really is making himself clearly the weakest link in the band.
I would be totally satisfied if they filled the Wings/10k Days gap with those two songs. Come to think of it, if they fill the gap with ANY couple of songs I would feel the same way.
i'm still miffed they dropped "opiate" from the staples center night 2 setlist in 2006. it feels like eons since i've heard anything off that record. (ozzfest 98 i think)
Maynard does not sing some songs because he has been there done that. He is not able to regain the emotional aspect to sing certain songs. Read up some interviews. Tool has explained themselves pretty well regarding the choice of songs.
@cirkus. I don't know about you, but 1 hour and 39 minutes equals 99 minutes. So what's long? Keep in mind that :
Stinkfist
Schism
Lateralus
are quite extended these days.
We just should face it. This is what Tool wants to do.
This is what we're getting!
99 is correct, but it would be 65 minutes for the 2009 tour if you count them that way.
__________________ Tower Theatre, PA - 5/17/06 | City Center, NY - 5/20/06
Camden, NJ - 9/28/06 | Meadowlands, NJ - 10/06/06
Atlantic City, NJ - 6/09/07 | Holmdel, NJ - 7/18/07
Atlanta, GA - 7/27/09 | Fairfax, VA - 7/30/09
All Points West, NJ - 8/01/09
Kansas City, MO - 6/25/10 | St. Louis, MO - 6/26/10
Sacramento, CA - 7/13/10
Why all this bickering about how long the sets "used to be" compared to now? For all of us fans who have been attending shows since 2002 tour and earlier, we're feeling short changed and for good reason. Length aside, the quality of set list (and their individual interpretations, messages, and meanings), set-up, effort, emotion, and care just doesn't seem to be there this go round. The Lateralus shows were so fucking epic in every regard and I just feel like it's different now. Regardless of where it clocks in at, there is much more than a few minutes misssing off of the set time these days....
i think the setlist will change.
they always have similar setlists and change a few things.
like weither they start with stinkfist, jambi, or sober.
and they change 1 song that they rotate through a few more rare to see songs.
i.e. from last year flood>pushit>right in 2. but i also saw the patient once in 2006
they would play them... one of those on every show.
in lateralus days, though theyd usually have 2 songs in each setlist that would alternate
itd probobly be H>Opiate>Undertow>Eulogy>Swamp Song>Pushit, sometimes aenima version, sometimes salival version...
in the lateralus days there was just more of a variation in the songs they would pick to be the extra rotating songs. the setlists seemed more exciting i guess.
anyway, my point is that even though these last 2 setlists were the same, i dont think it will stay that way. theyre just warming back up. theyre gonna switch out something soon. probobly flood.
and either way, i dont give a shit because i get to see them in 5 days. and whatever the fuck they play, ill enjoy it completely. nokia is a small place to have pit tickets. ill shit my pants.
yeah you are right. the setlist will change. maybe between lateralus and vicarious at one of the shows they will play holiday in cambodia.
my ass the set will change. that has proven to be correct in the past LOL. Summer 07 they rotated pushit/flood/right in two/the pot a little but thats it. barely what i would call a set change.
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4/30/06.Coachella. 8/30/06.Englewood CO. 9/01/06.Las Vegas. 5/9/07.Colorado Springs CO. 5/11/07.Whichita KS. 7/12/07.Mansfield MA. 7/18/09.Mile High Music Festival.7/27/09.Duluth GA.
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Why all this bickering about how long the sets "used to be" compared to now? For all of us fans who have been attending shows since 2002 tour and earlier, we're feeling short changed and for good reason. Length aside, the quality of set list (and their individual interpretations, messages, and meanings), set-up, effort, emotion, and care just doesn't seem to be there this go round. The Lateralus shows were so fucking epic in every regard and I just feel like it's different now. Regardless of where it clocks in at, there is much more than a few minutes misssing off of the set time these days....
A lot of people still thoroughly enjoy this set. You're seeing such hatred for the shows due to Toolnavy being home to the most cynical Tool fans (who for the most part hate 10,000 Days), so seeing such hatred for the latest Tool show isn't unexpected.
McRoggles has a great point in showing that there have been short (and shorter) shows in the past, so the argument that they're being ripped off now is not quite valid. Yes, it is more money, but Tool members are aging and won't be playing forever, they're much more popular than they were before and in general tickets have inflated for events. So while you have all the right to complain about all of those issues, there isn't much backing to them other than personal opinion.
As for the emotion and effort the band are putting out this tour, have you been to a show? Do you know what they feel and put into their work? Probably not, and definitely not. Does it suck that they're simply replaying the 10,000 Days setlist? Yes. But does that mean the majority of people out there aren't going to enjoy themselves and get their money worth? I'd say not.
Well I went to the denver show, and it was pretty obvious to me after the show that maynard does not give a flying fuck any more and is in it for the money and thats it.
Even if this band makes another album, I can almost guarantee you it will suck. Maynard is to old, he should have quit while he was on top of his game. I forsee a downward spiral and tool turning into another washed out band who are too old and are going to be playing sub par shows and music from now on.
__________________ -----------------------------------------------------------------------
4/30/06.Coachella. 8/30/06.Englewood CO. 9/01/06.Las Vegas. 5/9/07.Colorado Springs CO. 5/11/07.Whichita KS. 7/12/07.Mansfield MA. 7/18/09.Mile High Music Festival.7/27/09.Duluth GA.
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Well I went to the denver show, and it was pretty obvious to me after the show that maynard does not give a flying fuck any more and is in it for the money and thats it.
Well if the earlier discussions are true about him not wanting to tour in the first place, I can see why he may come off as a tad apprehensive in his performance. He's currently focusing on his other projects and had to take time out of them to do this tour. (Whether you like the other projects or not is irrelevant).
I don't get how people can say that he is too old to continue playing with Tool--it's a consensus belief that Lateralus is the best album, yet it's the most peaceful and is pretty devoid of screaming and extensive vocal work--with the exception of Ticks and Leeches. Of course he is aging, but he shouldn't stop doing what he loves because people are angry that he doesn't sound like he's 20 years old anymore. Their next album can be as masterful as Lateralus, or it can be a 10,000 Days part 2. Either way, a lot of people will be highly anticipating that album and I'm quite certain it won't be terrible.
[QUOTE=Emericana;2760157]Well I went to the denver show, and it was pretty obvious to me after the show that maynard does not give a flying fuck any more and is in it for the money and thats it.
I was at SLC on the floor and Maynard seemed into it to me. He was rocking out the entire show. All you people bitching have your expectations too high. Tool, like all successful entities is very consistent and predictable. Also the new videos were great and it was cool to see the Vicarious video live with the band playing. Also, probably the best part of the visuals were the lasers. Very cool!
Beastie Boys have had to cancel their summer shows due to Adam's cancer (get well soon).
Now SF Outside Lands is "diligently working to replace" them.
Hmmm, I can't think of anybody off-hand....although I'd rather they play their own solo show at the Oakland Coliseum.
I would be totally satisfied if they filled the Wings/10k Days gap with those two songs. Come to think of it, if they fill the gap with ANY couple of songs I would feel the same way.
Dude I'll totally 'settle'for Aenema at this point. It is AZ Bay after all.
Posting from my bb at BUR airport. Just about to board.
Here's an interesting read about one of MJK's wine signings and his continued lack of appreciation or respect for his fans. However, the definition of "merkin" is hilarious!!
Beastie Boys have had to cancel their summer shows due to Adam's cancer (get well soon).
Now SF Outside Lands is "diligently working to replace" them.
Hmmm, I can't think of anybody off-hand....although I'd rather they play their own solo show at the Oakland Coliseum.
i thought about that yesterday as well. but who'll replace Beasties at All Points West - Tool are already scheduled to play the next day 8/1...we'll see
yo everyone going to phoenix. they're gonna play a different set because i will be in attendance. it's almost guaranteed.
but you could double stamp a guarantee that differential will be 'third eye' if you hook me up with any variety of hallucinogenic substances of interest.
edit: i have $
__________________ "Brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors, vibrations in the mind of the one true god whose name is Love.." -William Melvin Hicks
Here's an interesting read about one of MJK's wine signings and his continued lack of appreciation or respect for his fans. However, the definition of "merkin" is hilarious!!
Man, you guys sure like to make mountains out of molehills. Would you sit there and shake thousands of sweaty peoples hands (even the attendee was grossed out by the crowd), and answer the same question over and over and over again? It would grow redundant hearing the same piece of praise from obsessed fans who waited a full day to get a bottle of wine signed. And again, they complained about the wait as it was--imagine if Keenan took the time to engage in conversation with each attendee?
His wine is a project of love. However there is nothing about it that stands out, and without his celebrity--no one would give a shit about it. He knows that, so he is exploiting his celebrity and his fans, but who can blame him? Find better things to complain about, in my opinion.
A lot of people still thoroughly enjoy this set. You're seeing such hatred for the shows due to Toolnavy being home to the most cynical Tool fans (who for the most part hate 10,000 Days), so seeing such hatred for the latest Tool show isn't unexpected.
Like I said before, this set with Wings/10K Days was truely EPIC and it easily competed with being as rad as the Lateralus tour. 10,000 Days is an amazing album. Not a single complaint on any of the songs, not one. It blows me away anytime I hear someone complain about that album. In fact, I dont complain about anything Tool has done artistically. They have stayed true to delivering their art with pure class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yast3r
McRoggles has a great point in showing that there have been short (and shorter) shows in the past, so the argument that they're being ripped off now is not quite valid. Yes, it is more money, but Tool members are aging and won't be playing forever, they're much more popular than they were before and in general tickets have inflated for events. So while you have all the right to complain about all of those issues, there isn't much backing to them other than personal opinion.
I think hope, rather than opinion, has caused the frustration among Tool fans so far on this tour. Hope in a band who is truly unique in a world full of mediocre bullshit hacks. Tool, whether they want to uphold it or not, have a responsibility. Even if it were unintentional, they have created this responsibility. The responsibility of keeping art sacred and fresh. The people that connect with Tool and in fact are enthusiastic about it know what I am talking about I hope.
So when a band with the integrity of Tool announces an unexpected tour outside their usual boundaries of an "album themed tour" it builds up hope within Tool fans who understand how important they are. When I first read they were doing another tour this soon I assumed that they were excited to play and wanted to get out, have some fun, loosen up and play what sounds inspiring. I'm sure they are having fun though, how could they not? Anyway, I think you get my point. This tour came outa no where and a lot of us got our hopes up. Its disappointing to see them come out and not throw some curve balls, ya know? They have a devoted following and I would say more than half of each crowd on this tour will have seen them multiple times by now. So, if they really wanted to gain some cash flow from this tour, they did it in a really selfish way.
And as someone said before, Adam was quoted saying Maynard calls the shots on the songs, which isnt surprising. So really the blame is heavily on Maynard, but if it were gonna be like that, why would the 3 core elements of the band agree to tour knowing it was gonna be a little stale? Its frustrating when you make an effort to show your love for a band, and not get that feeling in return.
I feel that Tool should play the songs that, as a whole, they are comfortable playing. I respect that they seem to being doing that now and have done that in the past as well.
That being said, I won't say that they "owe" the fans anything because we choose to buy their tickets/merch and whatever else, but I do feel that they SHOULD give the fans 10/11 songs that they feel comfortable playing.
My point is that they should play 10 or 11 of the songs in their catalog which they are comfortable playing today. It is a good deal for both Tool and their fans.
I am still holding out hope that we will see the set lengthen soon.
I guess it really doesn't matter how I feel, or how any of us feel for that matter.
<- I must keep reminding myself of this...
Like I said before, this set with Wings/10K Days was truely EPIC and it easily competed with being as rad as the Lateralus tour. 10,000 Days is an amazing album. Not a single complaint on any of the songs, not one. It blows me away anytime I hear someone complain about that album. In fact, I dont complain about anything Tool has done artistically. They have stayed true to delivering their art with pure class.
I think hope, rather than opinion, has caused the frustration among Tool fans so far on this tour. Hope in a band who is truly unique in a world full of mediocre bullshit hacks. Tool, whether they want to uphold it or not, have a responsibility. Even if it were unintentional, they have created this responsibility. The responsibility of keeping art sacred and fresh. The people that connect with Tool and in fact are enthusiastic about it know what I am talking about I hope.
So when a band with the integrity of Tool announces an unexpected tour outside their usual boundaries of an "album themed tour" it builds up hope within Tool fans who understand how important they are. When I first read they were doing another tour this soon I assumed that they were excited to play and wanted to get out, have some fun, loosen up and play what sounds inspiring. I'm sure they are having fun though, how could they not? Anyway, I think you get my point. This tour came outa no where and a lot of us got our hopes up. Its disappointing to see them come out and not throw some curve balls, ya know? They have a devoted following and I would say more than half of each crowd on this tour will have seen them multiple times by now. So, if they really wanted to gain some cash flow from this tour, they did it in a really selfish way.
And as someone said before, Adam was quoted saying Maynard calls the shots on the songs, which isnt surprising. So really the blame is heavily on Maynard, but if it were gonna be like that, why would the 3 core elements of the band agree to tour knowing it was gonna be a little stale? Its frustrating when you make an effort to show your love for a band, and not get that feeling in return.
I think all the steam is out, I'll stop now :)
Good shit, dude. Sorry, I'm wasting space, but had to give props.
I think it's worth noting here that this "Adam quote" everyone keeps throwing around about Maynard "totally dictating the setlist" (paraphrasing...) is HEARSAY.
I'm sure the GIST of it is somewhat accurate (maybe...), but the context and other aspects of the comment really can't be ascertained from a fan's online blog/report about the event/conversation in question.
I'm sure there's LOTS more to everything and all these setlist decisions than simply Maynard's vocals. Although I'm sure he carries a pretty hefty veto power due to the fact that his voice is the only "organic/living" instrument of the bunch.
Sorry to rain on the bitch parade, but I just see lots and lots of hearsay and stretched comments/quotes getting thrown around, and thought I'd throw a little devils-advocate in there.
Knowing that Junior's on here, I pray that either a) not much if any of this whining gets back to the band or b) they are smart enough (and I'm sure they are) to know that a handful of messageboard posters don't speak for the attitude of the entire fanbase.
Would I shit myself over a wildly different setlist? Of course. But I appreciate what I get, and if the day comes that I don't... I'll quietly stop going, just like I've done with so many other bands. They do what they do. If you end up not liking it... get over it and find something else.
Or AT THE LEAST, word your criticisms better than a bitch-baby 5-year-old would. Some of you are articulate and fair in your complaints, but a great many others (not naming names) sound like little babies of the worst kind.
Looking forward to hearing what tonight brings, as well as the Dultuh show that I'll be attending, short/same/boring setlist or no. :)
