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Systolic
05-07-2006, 08:12 PM
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To Nonduality (and anyone else criticizing Flux's efforts): Lay off the guy, geez.

Look how much effort he put into what he did. Paraflux has brains, and no I'm not sucking up because he's a mod. The guy says some seriously substantial and relevant stuff. When you can make a better post than what he did, and explore the idea so thoroughly, and make it so convincing, then you can "gripe" about him. I've seen his ideas on Christ as well, and I am a Christian, and while I don't necessarily agree with him, I can't deny that his ideas are well thought out.

Once again Flux - your idea was awesome.
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:12 PM   #161
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

To Nonduality (and anyone else criticizing Flux's efforts): Lay off the guy, geez.

Look how much effort he put into what he did. Paraflux has brains, and no I'm not sucking up because he's a mod. The guy says some seriously substantial and relevant stuff. When you can make a better post than what he did, and explore the idea so thoroughly, and make it so convincing, then you can "gripe" about him. I've seen his ideas on Christ as well, and I am a Christian, and while I don't necessarily agree with him, I can't deny that his ideas are well thought out.

Once again Flux - your idea was awesome.
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Systolic
To Nonduality (and anyone else criticizing Flux's efforts): Lay off the guy, geez.

Look how much effort he put into what he did. Paraflux has brains, and no I'm not sucking up because he's a mod. The guy says some seriously substantial and relevant stuff. When you can make a better post than what he did, and explore the idea so thoroughly, and make it so convincing, then you can "gripe" about him. I've seen his ideas on Christ as well, and I am a Christian, and while I don't necessarily agree with him, I can't deny that his ideas are well thought out.

Once again Flux - your idea was awesome.
No, dont lay off me, I can and will refute anything that I feel needs to be said. After it starts to repeat itself, I'll take a page from Tool's book and be apathetic towards it ;)
Old 05-07-2006, 08:15 PM   #162
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Systolic
To Nonduality (and anyone else criticizing Flux's efforts): Lay off the guy, geez.

Look how much effort he put into what he did. Paraflux has brains, and no I'm not sucking up because he's a mod. The guy says some seriously substantial and relevant stuff. When you can make a better post than what he did, and explore the idea so thoroughly, and make it so convincing, then you can "gripe" about him. I've seen his ideas on Christ as well, and I am a Christian, and while I don't necessarily agree with him, I can't deny that his ideas are well thought out.

Once again Flux - your idea was awesome.
No, dont lay off me, I can and will refute anything that I feel needs to be said. After it starts to repeat itself, I'll take a page from Tool's book and be apathetic towards it ;)
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 08:16 PM
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I dont mind people coming into this thread with differing opinions. But let me just make it clear that I will continue along these lines that I started. I will continue to refer to things as I see them, as you would do in your own thread. However, I am not above learning something, and this is all helping me do my thing, not just try to "make" others see it in the light that I see it in. For those who wish to explore this with me, let's do it, that's what these boards are fucking for. With that being said...

I said I would talk about some of the past songs.

In college, I did my final theme paper my junior year in "Rhetorical Criticism" on AEnima. It had been out for about 6 months and I had had my revelations with it in January of 97. Naturally, I have carried those thoughts with me ever since, even if the paper itself is long gone...

As I said before, AEnima to me represents the "how" to get out of the spiritual cul-de-sac we are in. Stinkfist describes the problem, Eulogy is really the beginning of the record for me, and in it I find death to the pedestal, the foolery of following blindly, and that it is a general "opener" that tells the listener they should kill any preconceived thoughts that they had previously about, well, really, most things. The universe. H. introduces the concept of all being connected and how the compassion that makes the band, representing those of us who are ready to move on, is killing them as they choose to stay to tell us all of this. 46&2 shows us the shadow, and the music actually describes what it feels like to step through. That's one of the more brilliant songs they have ever done. If you listen to the verse merging into the chorus, see if you can hear how the music morphs into its potential, morphs into what it really was all along, just hidden. Hooker... their relief song. Jimmy... is Maynard using himself as an example to stress the importance of re-unity. Pushit shows us the gap and how frustrating it is to be pushed towards it, all the while trying to tell others how to get through it. Almost as if who the band represents will be the ones responsible for the division... hmmmm. AEnima warns of the destruction, very arrogantly, as is necessary to get people to even hear your voice at times. Third Eye is the process of opening yours, again a descriptive song somewhat like 46&2 but from an even more first person perspective.

Ok, so that's the very very condensed fluxerpretation of AEnima (the original was like 25 pages long). I'll do it again for Lateralus after I'm done talking about the songs on AEnima that I want to further explore. This record meant so much to me, at the time, it was extremely relevant, but of course we have much more relevant music from them now.

I'm going to lock the thread until I am done, I was going to make this all one post but I feel that the top paragraph needed to be said, now. I think this thread is going to be me finally having a release for all of these thoughts that a lot of people havent thought about. Not about this record alone, but their past as well. I have that right, yes?

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 08:23 PM..
Old 05-07-2006, 08:16 PM   #163
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

I dont mind people coming into this thread with differing opinions. But let me just make it clear that I will continue along these lines that I started. I will continue to refer to things as I see them, as you would do in your own thread. However, I am not above learning something, and this is all helping me do my thing, not just try to "make" others see it in the light that I see it in. For those who wish to explore this with me, let's do it, that's what these boards are fucking for. With that being said...

I said I would talk about some of the past songs.

In college, I did my final theme paper my junior year in "Rhetorical Criticism" on AEnima. It had been out for about 6 months and I had had my revelations with it in January of 97. Naturally, I have carried those thoughts with me ever since, even if the paper itself is long gone...

As I said before, AEnima to me represents the "how" to get out of the spiritual cul-de-sac we are in. Stinkfist describes the problem, Eulogy is really the beginning of the record for me, and in it I find death to the pedestal, the foolery of following blindly, and that it is a general "opener" that tells the listener they should kill any preconceived thoughts that they had previously about, well, really, most things. The universe. H. introduces the concept of all being connected and how the compassion that makes the band, representing those of us who are ready to move on, is killing them as they choose to stay to tell us all of this. 46&2 shows us the shadow, and the music actually describes what it feels like to step through. That's one of the more brilliant songs they have ever done. If you listen to the verse merging into the chorus, see if you can hear how the music morphs into its potential, morphs into what it really was all along, just hidden. Hooker... their relief song. Jimmy... is Maynard using himself as an example to stress the importance of re-unity. Pushit shows us the gap and how frustrating it is to be pushed towards it, all the while trying to tell others how to get through it. Almost as if who the band represents will be the ones responsible for the division... hmmmm. AEnima warns of the destruction, very arrogantly, as is necessary to get people to even hear your voice at times. Third Eye is the process of opening yours, again a descriptive song somewhat like 46&2 but from an even more first person perspective.

Ok, so that's the very very condensed fluxerpretation of AEnima (the original was like 25 pages long). I'll do it again for Lateralus after I'm done talking about the songs on AEnima that I want to further explore. This record meant so much to me, at the time, it was extremely relevant, but of course we have much more relevant music from them now.

I'm going to lock the thread until I am done, I was going to make this all one post but I feel that the top paragraph needed to be said, now. I think this thread is going to be me finally having a release for all of these thoughts that a lot of people havent thought about. Not about this record alone, but their past as well. I have that right, yes?

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 08:23 PM..
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 08:48 PM
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H.
There are sooooo many theories about H. that have floated around over the years. And whatever is true for those people, is fine. However, when listening to their music, I see the layers, and I want to climb to the top one, because it is my experience that each new layer is something better than the last. Let's start with the title of the song. H. With a period after the letter. I dont think, nor have I ever thought, that this letter H stood for a word that starts with the letter H. I take it as a diagram, not a letter, as two sides, with a chasm in between, being connected by the horizontal bar. The period, to me, is simply them saying, "that's it." Just the diagram. Just happens to be a letter in the English alphabet.

What's coming through is alive.
What's holding up is a mirror.
But what's singing songs is a snake
Looking to turn this piss to wine.


Those coming through, are alive, and "alive" here I think takes on a slightly different meaning to them than it would to us. To who the band represents (those helping), if you havent found your way, then you are not alive. Or at least you are very asleep. The snake, I take to represent Satan, is trying to convince them that that is enough, leave the rest to him. Turning this piss (the fact that there are so few trickling through) into wine (That's enough! Look at them all!).

Venomous voice, tempts me,
Drains me, bleeds me,
Leaves me cracked and empty.
Drags me down like some sweet gravity.


Tempts them with the fact that they dont have to be doing this. They know it, the snake never lies. Twists the truth, yes, always, but never lies. It drains them, knowing that they dont have to be in this place, on this side. It pulls them down.

The snake behind me hisses
What my damage could have been.
My blood before me begs me
Open up my heart again.


(Look! That's enough. Leave the rest to me. You've already gotten more than you deserved, you've already taken sooooo many souls from me, you could have gotten none at all, think about what damage that would have done to your little race)
But the compassion of being the messengers, helping, healing when they can, begs them to continue ignoring the snake.

I am too connected to you to
Slip away, to fade away.
Days away I still feel you
Touching me, changing me,
And considerately killing me.


Too connected. Through the net of being, which I like to refer to as something else, but that's not important. Connected to everything we think, so in tune with the network they are. And their deaths, their last chance to be "alive," are coming soon.

The music changes here, drastically, after a brief musical segue. Everything seems to be a little safer here. Or perhaps the messenger has simply centered himself, as he probably has done millions of times before, against the snake's temptings.

Without the skin,
Beneath the storm,
Under these tears
The walls came down.

And the snake is drowned and
As I look in his eyes,
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of those times.

I could have cried then.
I should have cried then.


His tears cause the snake to drown. His tears of compassion. Jambi mentions that he should "dam my eyes" and stop this drowning of the snake, if it would mean his own demise. And if the snake gets loose... I think we can all reach the same conclusion of what that means... All I know is that the messenger regains his composure, and then this...

And as the walls come down and
As I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of the times
I have died
and will die.
It's all right.
I don't mind.


Somehow he got rid of the snake, at least for the moment, The fear fades, and he thinks about all the times he has died over this, before. How many times he has given in only to be put back in the same position. But it was all worth it, apparently, as he screams that he doesnt mind, before going into the ending chorus, again stressing the fact that he is too connected to just slip away, he feels all of us, even though it's

considerately killing me

Now, this may be flawed. I havent, still, worked it all out yet, even after all these years. But the music tells me I am looking in the right direction, FOR ME, on a lot of counts.

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 10:00 PM..
Old 05-07-2006, 08:48 PM   #164
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

H.
There are sooooo many theories about H. that have floated around over the years. And whatever is true for those people, is fine. However, when listening to their music, I see the layers, and I want to climb to the top one, because it is my experience that each new layer is something better than the last. Let's start with the title of the song. H. With a period after the letter. I dont think, nor have I ever thought, that this letter H stood for a word that starts with the letter H. I take it as a diagram, not a letter, as two sides, with a chasm in between, being connected by the horizontal bar. The period, to me, is simply them saying, "that's it." Just the diagram. Just happens to be a letter in the English alphabet.

What's coming through is alive.
What's holding up is a mirror.
But what's singing songs is a snake
Looking to turn this piss to wine.


Those coming through, are alive, and "alive" here I think takes on a slightly different meaning to them than it would to us. To who the band represents (those helping), if you havent found your way, then you are not alive. Or at least you are very asleep. The snake, I take to represent Satan, is trying to convince them that that is enough, leave the rest to him. Turning this piss (the fact that there are so few trickling through) into wine (That's enough! Look at them all!).

Venomous voice, tempts me,
Drains me, bleeds me,
Leaves me cracked and empty.
Drags me down like some sweet gravity.


Tempts them with the fact that they dont have to be doing this. They know it, the snake never lies. Twists the truth, yes, always, but never lies. It drains them, knowing that they dont have to be in this place, on this side. It pulls them down.

The snake behind me hisses
What my damage could have been.
My blood before me begs me
Open up my heart again.


(Look! That's enough. Leave the rest to me. You've already gotten more than you deserved, you've already taken sooooo many souls from me, you could have gotten none at all, think about what damage that would have done to your little race)
But the compassion of being the messengers, helping, healing when they can, begs them to continue ignoring the snake.

I am too connected to you to
Slip away, to fade away.
Days away I still feel you
Touching me, changing me,
And considerately killing me.


Too connected. Through the net of being, which I like to refer to as something else, but that's not important. Connected to everything we think, so in tune with the network they are. And their deaths, their last chance to be "alive," are coming soon.

The music changes here, drastically, after a brief musical segue. Everything seems to be a little safer here. Or perhaps the messenger has simply centered himself, as he probably has done millions of times before, against the snake's temptings.

Without the skin,
Beneath the storm,
Under these tears
The walls came down.

And the snake is drowned and
As I look in his eyes,
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of those times.

I could have cried then.
I should have cried then.


His tears cause the snake to drown. His tears of compassion. Jambi mentions that he should "dam my eyes" and stop this drowning of the snake, if it would mean his own demise. And if the snake gets loose... I think we can all reach the same conclusion of what that means... All I know is that the messenger regains his composure, and then this...

And as the walls come down and
As I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade
Recalling all of the times
I have died
and will die.
It's all right.
I don't mind.


Somehow he got rid of the snake, at least for the moment, The fear fades, and he thinks about all the times he has died over this, before. How many times he has given in only to be put back in the same position. But it was all worth it, apparently, as he screams that he doesnt mind, before going into the ending chorus, again stressing the fact that he is too connected to just slip away, he feels all of us, even though it's

considerately killing me

Now, this may be flawed. I havent, still, worked it all out yet, even after all these years. But the music tells me I am looking in the right direction, FOR ME, on a lot of counts.

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 10:00 PM..
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 09:06 PM
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46&2
23 pairs of chromosomes in our DNA

Yes, I think that's what it's about. DNA. Our composition. Now, if it is to be taken literally, as in, we have 23 pairs of chromosomes and 2 more need to be activated for evolution to occur, I dont know. He could just be saying that the next step is ahead of him, and I dont pretend to know what that entails for sure.

This song is so fucking genius. It's as if, this is how it would sound to you, if all you had was sound to describe what you felt like as you stepped through. And really, that's all they have, right? It's what they know, it's what they can do best, so it's what they share.

The whispering in the front... the introduction, is, I think, simply a plea to listen.

my child

I certainly hope everyone can decipher for themselves the first verse. The narrator is not where he wants to be, knows theres something more, wants to see what all of his digging inside himself can produce.

Listen, instead, to the music. It always reflects what the lyrics are saying. When I say music, I do mean, too, how Maynard uses his voice, but think about his voice simply being another one of the instruments that are all telling us the same story simultaneously.

At 1:54, when the verse goes into the chorus, please notice how the music simply transforms into what it already was, just much, MUCH stronger and more amplified. The song is never the same after this. In fact, PLEASE notice how the second ver'se music is the EXACT opposite of the first! Adam and Justin trade parts! This to me represents that the person is not the same, never will be again, is the reflection of what he was before he stepped through. Listen to the verse transition into the chorus and then how the song is mirrored in the second verse.

At 4:05, right after the narrator declares his intention

do what it takes to step through

the music describes what that feels like, what that is, how fucking glorious it feels. Imagine, if you will, the quiet trepidation, and nervousness, before the point of return is reached when Danny starts one of the best segments that he has ever recorded at 4:32. This whole little piece describes to me the glory of doing what they are describing to us.

Another piece of the Rosetta Stone. Another thing that they have tried to tell us, share with us.
Old 05-07-2006, 09:06 PM   #165
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

46&2
23 pairs of chromosomes in our DNA

Yes, I think that's what it's about. DNA. Our composition. Now, if it is to be taken literally, as in, we have 23 pairs of chromosomes and 2 more need to be activated for evolution to occur, I dont know. He could just be saying that the next step is ahead of him, and I dont pretend to know what that entails for sure.

This song is so fucking genius. It's as if, this is how it would sound to you, if all you had was sound to describe what you felt like as you stepped through. And really, that's all they have, right? It's what they know, it's what they can do best, so it's what they share.

The whispering in the front... the introduction, is, I think, simply a plea to listen.

my child

I certainly hope everyone can decipher for themselves the first verse. The narrator is not where he wants to be, knows theres something more, wants to see what all of his digging inside himself can produce.

Listen, instead, to the music. It always reflects what the lyrics are saying. When I say music, I do mean, too, how Maynard uses his voice, but think about his voice simply being another one of the instruments that are all telling us the same story simultaneously.

At 1:54, when the verse goes into the chorus, please notice how the music simply transforms into what it already was, just much, MUCH stronger and more amplified. The song is never the same after this. In fact, PLEASE notice how the second ver'se music is the EXACT opposite of the first! Adam and Justin trade parts! This to me represents that the person is not the same, never will be again, is the reflection of what he was before he stepped through. Listen to the verse transition into the chorus and then how the song is mirrored in the second verse.

At 4:05, right after the narrator declares his intention

do what it takes to step through

the music describes what that feels like, what that is, how fucking glorious it feels. Imagine, if you will, the quiet trepidation, and nervousness, before the point of return is reached when Danny starts one of the best segments that he has ever recorded at 4:32. This whole little piece describes to me the glory of doing what they are describing to us.

Another piece of the Rosetta Stone. Another thing that they have tried to tell us, share with us.
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 09:09 PM
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I'm too tired to do the rest of this tonight, I had no idea what time it was. Seems time, when I immerse myself in these creations, tends to be irrelevant.

But I will do the couple of songs on Lateralus tomorrow night. If the hope/warning has been told to us already, let's re-explore some of these older works and bring everything to the open. Because... I really want to find out what I've been hiding

in my shadow

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 09:12 PM..
Old 05-07-2006, 09:09 PM   #166
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

I'm too tired to do the rest of this tonight, I had no idea what time it was. Seems time, when I immerse myself in these creations, tends to be irrelevant.

But I will do the couple of songs on Lateralus tomorrow night. If the hope/warning has been told to us already, let's re-explore some of these older works and bring everything to the open. Because... I really want to find out what I've been hiding

in my shadow

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 09:12 PM..
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 09:22 PM
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Jambi

I want to go back to Jambi for a minute because my view has slightly changed. At the same part I spoke of

Dam my eyes, Jam bi eyes

I actually wrote "Dam" in there on accident, meaning to type "damn." But it got me thinking, that it may very well be "dam." In H. there is much talk of drowning the snake with tears of compassion. What he may be saying is to dam those tears, jam both eyes, let the snake have them if the balance is compromised. Further pointing out the necessity of apathy because survival is impersonal. Life does not just take away the bad and the evil. It consumes all of itself.

a fulcrum, want and need, if I need then I might as well be gone
The balance between want and need... if he finds himself on the need side, he would consider himself gone...

Last edited by paraflux; 05-08-2006 at 01:02 PM..
Old 05-07-2006, 09:22 PM   #167
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Jambi

I want to go back to Jambi for a minute because my view has slightly changed. At the same part I spoke of

Dam my eyes, Jam bi eyes

I actually wrote "Dam" in there on accident, meaning to type "damn." But it got me thinking, that it may very well be "dam." In H. there is much talk of drowning the snake with tears of compassion. What he may be saying is to dam those tears, jam both eyes, let the snake have them if the balance is compromised. Further pointing out the necessity of apathy because survival is impersonal. Life does not just take away the bad and the evil. It consumes all of itself.

a fulcrum, want and need, if I need then I might as well be gone
The balance between want and need... if he finds himself on the need side, he would consider himself gone...

Last edited by paraflux; 05-08-2006 at 01:02 PM..
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05-07-2006, 09:27 PM
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so again, why has this thread not been stickied?
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Old 05-07-2006, 09:27 PM   #168
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

so again, why has this thread not been stickied?
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kin
05-07-2006, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
They show you what you are willing to see, nothing more.
Yes, because even though I live in this reality, and have experienced a billion different things which have prepared me to discern one thing from the other, including things like, honesty, integrity and compassion, there is actually no way I could ever possibly understand someones true intentions, or feel something beyond words which entirely coalesces the essence of what is being communicated. And of course, because the band has some kind of divine union with the Universe, everything they say or do is orchestrated in such a way that I could only hope to acquire the most superficial of understandings due to my lack of spiritual purity, and the fruit they bear is so beyond my keen and so layered and multi-faceted, I could spend several hundred lifetimes trying to decipher it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
It is my opinion that those of us who are on the other side feel things more strongly than those who do not feel at all. Therefore, the impressions are not superficial.
It is my opinion that your opinion is delusional, and based off idolatry rather than sanity. "Those of us on the other side." The other side of WHAT? The last time I checked we were all living in the same Universe, living on the same planet and breathing the same air. You think your insatiable hunger for anything that falls out of Maynards mouth qualifies you to value the worth of a human life? I have news for you. Whatever powers of perception you think you possess are utterly insignificant in the face of the Unity of every living being on the face of this planet. EVERYONE possess a natural resonance with what is which transcends any truth that you hold dear, including insects, animals, and bacteria. The truth does not discriminate, and nor does it glorify itself. It does not seperate anyone based on word or deed. There are bonds which cannot be broken, and your very creepy attempt to categorize human life based on what an arrogant rock star ejaculates into the world just mystifies me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
SO when Jesus, the night before his arrest, cried to the Father that his cup was full, when he was on the cross, saying

why have you forsaken me

he was being a whiny bitch? There are plenty of examples of what burdens can do to a man. As for the snobbery part, I dont want to be around a hell of a lot of people either. Call me snobby if you like, but I dont see the significance. What you would rather him do is go and do a week of TRL and smile and introduce videos by people he doesnt give a shit about?
Umm, wtf? Are you sniffing glue? So being a total asshole to people, spending extravagant amounts of money on beverages, and generally looking down his nose at the people who make his life possible is the result of his Jesus scale burdens? He lost his mom. There are literally billions of people on this planet who have suffered far more than he ever has. There are people born with debilitating illness. People sold in sexual slavery when they're 5 years old. People who are tortured and starving and bleed for even the most basic necessities. 30,000 people on this planet die every fucking day of starvation. If living his life is all that it takes to be Jesus in this world, we've got a few continents full of saviours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Because there is a balance. Dont put him on a pedestal. I'd call you a bitch too if you did that to me. If people would get off his jock then perhaps he wouldnt be so aloof.
Yeah, what balance? He hides himself from everyone and only comes out to prostitute for his latest album. When he does say something, it's almost invariably negative. That isn't a balance. That is a fuck you, give me your money, and now let me piss all over you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Damn straight, here's some music, give us money. That's their path. I dont think any one of us would want them to be distracted by anything else that would take away from what they can do musically.
Yeah, their "path" is to create music and then use the proceeds to fund their selfish lifestyles. While the world falls apart. Wow, thanks a lot Tool. You're fucking heroes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
You cant just give this out like a pill. What makes them not be simply preachers is because they arent trying to indoctrinate any of us, instead, they show us by example what is possible, and encourage us to learn to teach ourselves. Not to take in some dogmatic spew and run with it.
That wasn't the point. THEY haven't followed their own advice. THEY haven't gone out in the world and accomplished ANYTHING beyond make a few records, which as we know any talentless hack can do. Even if you are so ignorant to think that a record is going to save the world (not withstanding the fact that they sing in fucking english which the vast majority of people do not speak) you have to ask yourself, if their message is the pure truth, spoken from the very precipice of human evolution, why hasn't it? Let me spend .0000000000000000000000000000000000001 milliseconds thinking about it. This is a toughy..

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I wonder who is judging on superficial assumptions now?
Show me any piece of evidence which indicates the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Count me in, sounds like fun. I should look into this "insane."
I don't think you're going to need to do much research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
You're right! We should pay less for higher quality products! pfff
Yeah, toolarmy is a quality product. 25 dollar T-Shirts which I can buy at the mall for 10, yeah that's quality alright. It's odd though, because I never thought quality was supposed to feel like getting fucked in the ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I should have saved the preaching response for this paragraph, but it still applies.
Yeah, it's really preaching to state facts like Maynards 50,000 dollar bottle of wine could have fed and clothed and vaccinated hundreds if not thousands of people. I don't care what you say. There is no excuse for that. I think anyone who spends that kind of money on things of that nature has severe issues, but someone like Maynard who at least pretends to have an understanding of the problems on this planet? It is just sickening. Hypocrite is too kind a word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont think I want you to like me, if this is how you feel about things that you like.
I am awash in duality. Some of my very favorite music is from Tool. Maynard, though seemingly a complete knee-biter in real life, in his music has expressed things that have moved my heart and touched my soul. I can recognize with ease the depth of the man, and I know there are many complexities to him which I will never comprehend without his expressly sharing them with me. That being said, I feel that he is losing his grasp on reality and is turning into what he despises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
*shrug* if that's what you desire.
Music makes us feel better, and allows us to share things beyond words, but it isn't going to heal the world, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Not pretty enough for some, it appears.
No, you're wrong. I have much admiration for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Well, some of us.
Yeah, I'm stupid. Duh. I'm drooling on myself right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I imagine everything you just said was applied to the skeptics of Christ, if and when he was around.
I imagine everything you just said was applied to religious fundementalists as they waged their campaigns of destruction across our history. To compare Maynard to Christ is just funny, but you know, Christ probably never existed in the first place, so perhaps its appropiate.
Old 05-07-2006, 09:27 PM   #169
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Re: What the fuck do I have to learn from Tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
They show you what you are willing to see, nothing more.
Yes, because even though I live in this reality, and have experienced a billion different things which have prepared me to discern one thing from the other, including things like, honesty, integrity and compassion, there is actually no way I could ever possibly understand someones true intentions, or feel something beyond words which entirely coalesces the essence of what is being communicated. And of course, because the band has some kind of divine union with the Universe, everything they say or do is orchestrated in such a way that I could only hope to acquire the most superficial of understandings due to my lack of spiritual purity, and the fruit they bear is so beyond my keen and so layered and multi-faceted, I could spend several hundred lifetimes trying to decipher it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
It is my opinion that those of us who are on the other side feel things more strongly than those who do not feel at all. Therefore, the impressions are not superficial.
It is my opinion that your opinion is delusional, and based off idolatry rather than sanity. "Those of us on the other side." The other side of WHAT? The last time I checked we were all living in the same Universe, living on the same planet and breathing the same air. You think your insatiable hunger for anything that falls out of Maynards mouth qualifies you to value the worth of a human life? I have news for you. Whatever powers of perception you think you possess are utterly insignificant in the face of the Unity of every living being on the face of this planet. EVERYONE possess a natural resonance with what is which transcends any truth that you hold dear, including insects, animals, and bacteria. The truth does not discriminate, and nor does it glorify itself. It does not seperate anyone based on word or deed. There are bonds which cannot be broken, and your very creepy attempt to categorize human life based on what an arrogant rock star ejaculates into the world just mystifies me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
SO when Jesus, the night before his arrest, cried to the Father that his cup was full, when he was on the cross, saying

why have you forsaken me

he was being a whiny bitch? There are plenty of examples of what burdens can do to a man. As for the snobbery part, I dont want to be around a hell of a lot of people either. Call me snobby if you like, but I dont see the significance. What you would rather him do is go and do a week of TRL and smile and introduce videos by people he doesnt give a shit about?
Umm, wtf? Are you sniffing glue? So being a total asshole to people, spending extravagant amounts of money on beverages, and generally looking down his nose at the people who make his life possible is the result of his Jesus scale burdens? He lost his mom. There are literally billions of people on this planet who have suffered far more than he ever has. There are people born with debilitating illness. People sold in sexual slavery when they're 5 years old. People who are tortured and starving and bleed for even the most basic necessities. 30,000 people on this planet die every fucking day of starvation. If living his life is all that it takes to be Jesus in this world, we've got a few continents full of saviours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Because there is a balance. Dont put him on a pedestal. I'd call you a bitch too if you did that to me. If people would get off his jock then perhaps he wouldnt be so aloof.
Yeah, what balance? He hides himself from everyone and only comes out to prostitute for his latest album. When he does say something, it's almost invariably negative. That isn't a balance. That is a fuck you, give me your money, and now let me piss all over you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Damn straight, here's some music, give us money. That's their path. I dont think any one of us would want them to be distracted by anything else that would take away from what they can do musically.
Yeah, their "path" is to create music and then use the proceeds to fund their selfish lifestyles. While the world falls apart. Wow, thanks a lot Tool. You're fucking heroes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
You cant just give this out like a pill. What makes them not be simply preachers is because they arent trying to indoctrinate any of us, instead, they show us by example what is possible, and encourage us to learn to teach ourselves. Not to take in some dogmatic spew and run with it.
That wasn't the point. THEY haven't followed their own advice. THEY haven't gone out in the world and accomplished ANYTHING beyond make a few records, which as we know any talentless hack can do. Even if you are so ignorant to think that a record is going to save the world (not withstanding the fact that they sing in fucking english which the vast majority of people do not speak) you have to ask yourself, if their message is the pure truth, spoken from the very precipice of human evolution, why hasn't it? Let me spend .0000000000000000000000000000000000001 milliseconds thinking about it. This is a toughy..

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I wonder who is judging on superficial assumptions now?
Show me any piece of evidence which indicates the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Count me in, sounds like fun. I should look into this "insane."
I don't think you're going to need to do much research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
You're right! We should pay less for higher quality products! pfff
Yeah, toolarmy is a quality product. 25 dollar T-Shirts which I can buy at the mall for 10, yeah that's quality alright. It's odd though, because I never thought quality was supposed to feel like getting fucked in the ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I should have saved the preaching response for this paragraph, but it still applies.
Yeah, it's really preaching to state facts like Maynards 50,000 dollar bottle of wine could have fed and clothed and vaccinated hundreds if not thousands of people. I don't care what you say. There is no excuse for that. I think anyone who spends that kind of money on things of that nature has severe issues, but someone like Maynard who at least pretends to have an understanding of the problems on this planet? It is just sickening. Hypocrite is too kind a word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont think I want you to like me, if this is how you feel about things that you like.
I am awash in duality. Some of my very favorite music is from Tool. Maynard, though seemingly a complete knee-biter in real life, in his music has expressed things that have moved my heart and touched my soul. I can recognize with ease the depth of the man, and I know there are many complexities to him which I will never comprehend without his expressly sharing them with me. That being said, I feel that he is losing his grasp on reality and is turning into what he despises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
*shrug* if that's what you desire.
Music makes us feel better, and allows us to share things beyond words, but it isn't going to heal the world, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Not pretty enough for some, it appears.
No, you're wrong. I have much admiration for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Well, some of us.
Yeah, I'm stupid. Duh. I'm drooling on myself right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I imagine everything you just said was applied to the skeptics of Christ, if and when he was around.
I imagine everything you just said was applied to religious fundementalists as they waged their campaigns of destruction across our history. To compare Maynard to Christ is just funny, but you know, Christ probably never existed in the first place, so perhaps its appropiate.
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kin
It is my opinion that your opinion is delusional, and based off idolatry rather than sanity.
That's fine, that's your right, and I wont chastise you for exercising your free will to do so. Also your desire to see "sanity" as something dear to cling to.

Now move on, then.
Old 05-07-2006, 09:30 PM   #170
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by kin
It is my opinion that your opinion is delusional, and based off idolatry rather than sanity.
That's fine, that's your right, and I wont chastise you for exercising your free will to do so. Also your desire to see "sanity" as something dear to cling to.

Now move on, then.
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imatoolhed's Avatar imatoolhed
05-07-2006, 09:48 PM
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I don't believe you have to defend yourself.

Just correct them. Learn 'em (as they say).

The thread stands on it's own. Straight up (imo). :)
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Old 05-07-2006, 09:48 PM   #171
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

I don't believe you have to defend yourself.

Just correct them. Learn 'em (as they say).

The thread stands on it's own. Straight up (imo). :)
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05-07-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
That's fine, that's your right, and I wont chastise you for exercising your free will to do so. Also your desire to see "sanity" as something dear to cling to.

Now move on, then.
Hah. You're the one who felt the need to dissect my entire post piece by piece, and when I foolishly wasted my time by taking you seriously and actually responded, you selectively take a tiny piece out of it, put a cute little hoity-toity comeback on it, and then act as if you are dismissing me.

I think I'll just let that bullshit speak for itself. I will stand on the strength of my comments, which I am sure many will agree are fair and accurate.

Later, Gator.
Old 05-07-2006, 09:53 PM   #172
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
That's fine, that's your right, and I wont chastise you for exercising your free will to do so. Also your desire to see "sanity" as something dear to cling to.

Now move on, then.
Hah. You're the one who felt the need to dissect my entire post piece by piece, and when I foolishly wasted my time by taking you seriously and actually responded, you selectively take a tiny piece out of it, put a cute little hoity-toity comeback on it, and then act as if you are dismissing me.

I think I'll just let that bullshit speak for itself. I will stand on the strength of my comments, which I am sure many will agree are fair and accurate.

Later, Gator.
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paraflux
05-07-2006, 09:56 PM
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Many do agree with you :) That's actually kind of what this thread is about. May you take your strength in numbers as a positive thing, if you like.

That "bullshit" that I posted to reply to your post was simply yes, to dismiss you, you've had your say, and that's all I felt I needed to say about it, because, in case you hadnt noticed, I really have other things to do besides repeat myself. I think that everything in your other posts are already answered.

And I hate the Gators, I'm an LSU fan so naturally every other SEC team is my enemy.
Old 05-07-2006, 09:56 PM   #173
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Many do agree with you :) That's actually kind of what this thread is about. May you take your strength in numbers as a positive thing, if you like.

That "bullshit" that I posted to reply to your post was simply yes, to dismiss you, you've had your say, and that's all I felt I needed to say about it, because, in case you hadnt noticed, I really have other things to do besides repeat myself. I think that everything in your other posts are already answered.

And I hate the Gators, I'm an LSU fan so naturally every other SEC team is my enemy.
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kin
05-07-2006, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Many do agree with you :) That's actually kind of what this thread is about. May you take your strength in numbers as a positive thing, if you like.

That "bullshit" that I posted to reply to your post was simply yes, to dismiss you, you've had your say, and that's all I felt I needed to say about it, because, in case you hadnt noticed, I really have other things to do besides repeat myself. I think that everything in your other posts are already answered.

And I hate the Gators, I'm an LSU fan so naturally every other SEC team is my enemy.
It really doesn't matter who agrees with me. The post was addressed to you because you had deemed it necessary to take me to task for everything I said, on a nearly sentence by sentence basis. I responded in kind, and no my points have not been addressed, because you have failed to respond. If you're just going to repeat yourself, don't bother, because everything you have said so far has failed to address what I said in any meaningful way.
Old 05-07-2006, 10:02 PM   #174
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Many do agree with you :) That's actually kind of what this thread is about. May you take your strength in numbers as a positive thing, if you like.

That "bullshit" that I posted to reply to your post was simply yes, to dismiss you, you've had your say, and that's all I felt I needed to say about it, because, in case you hadnt noticed, I really have other things to do besides repeat myself. I think that everything in your other posts are already answered.

And I hate the Gators, I'm an LSU fan so naturally every other SEC team is my enemy.
It really doesn't matter who agrees with me. The post was addressed to you because you had deemed it necessary to take me to task for everything I said, on a nearly sentence by sentence basis. I responded in kind, and no my points have not been addressed, because you have failed to respond. If you're just going to repeat yourself, don't bother, because everything you have said so far has failed to address what I said in any meaningful way.
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05-07-2006, 10:04 PM
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*nods*

So onwards, then.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2, yet?
Old 05-07-2006, 10:04 PM   #175
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

*nods*

So onwards, then.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2, yet?
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05-07-2006, 10:30 PM
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That's IT!!!!! I can't read any more!!! I made it through page 4 in one sitting and I can't take anymore..If this thread was a conversation in real time taking place in person I would've gone insane. Nice post and I would have to agree with most of it...TOOL can't tell us the same stuff over and over again, but there is a lot of shit that they can talk about. It's not over. LONG LIVE TOOL!!!! :)
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Old 05-07-2006, 10:30 PM   #176
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

That's IT!!!!! I can't read any more!!! I made it through page 4 in one sitting and I can't take anymore..If this thread was a conversation in real time taking place in person I would've gone insane. Nice post and I would have to agree with most of it...TOOL can't tell us the same stuff over and over again, but there is a lot of shit that they can talk about. It's not over. LONG LIVE TOOL!!!! :)
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tDoXoMl
05-07-2006, 10:35 PM
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Dude, Flux. Buddy... you not stickying this page, is kinda like being a dick. Stop disservicing us. Thank ya
Old 05-07-2006, 10:35 PM   #177
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Dude, Flux. Buddy... you not stickying this page, is kinda like being a dick. Stop disservicing us. Thank ya
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05-07-2006, 10:43 PM
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I would rather another admin saw it and decided it was sticky-worthy. I dont want this to become the "OMG REEL INTERPRUTASHUN OF TEH NEW RECORD" thread, at all, and I dont want people to feel that it was stickied just because of my position here. I hope you can feel me on that.

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 10:50 PM..
Old 05-07-2006, 10:43 PM   #178
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

I would rather another admin saw it and decided it was sticky-worthy. I dont want this to become the "OMG REEL INTERPRUTASHUN OF TEH NEW RECORD" thread, at all, and I dont want people to feel that it was stickied just because of my position here. I hope you can feel me on that.

Last edited by paraflux; 05-07-2006 at 10:50 PM..
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05-07-2006, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seneca77
what an awesome fucking thought. threads like this, and posts like yours are why i love tool fans.

yeah soemtimes we are pretty ok. but hey, i just recognized it, think about how cool it is he did it.
Old 05-07-2006, 10:51 PM   #179
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by seneca77
what an awesome fucking thought. threads like this, and posts like yours are why i love tool fans.

yeah soemtimes we are pretty ok. but hey, i just recognized it, think about how cool it is he did it.
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05-07-2006, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhishBulb
I'm impressed paraflux. I haven't seen too many well thought out responses to this album, regardless of opinion.

Personally, I have no clue what to think. I started off listeding to Vicarious on the radio. Liked it, and was ready to welcome back Tool. Was disapointed first time through the album. It's since grown quite a bit on me. More than that, a couple of songs completely blow me away. I don't know where things will end up, but I'm looking forward to the journey.

Tool is just a band. They are just a couple of guys making a shitload of money singing and playing instruments. The thing is, there are lots of bands doing this. I just can't imagine spending time looking deeper into their music like I do with Tool. I want there to be something more here -- and I believe over time I've found it. It's not just 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 minutes worth of music at a time. It's an experience. And nomatter what I end up taking out of it, it always seems worth it.

Thank you paraflux. Thoughts like yours really do add to the experience.

it just seems a disservice, considering the tripe that is played off as "just a band" these days to consider tool to be simply that. tool is not "just a band." at least not to me.
Old 05-07-2006, 10:54 PM   #180
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhishBulb
I'm impressed paraflux. I haven't seen too many well thought out responses to this album, regardless of opinion.

Personally, I have no clue what to think. I started off listeding to Vicarious on the radio. Liked it, and was ready to welcome back Tool. Was disapointed first time through the album. It's since grown quite a bit on me. More than that, a couple of songs completely blow me away. I don't know where things will end up, but I'm looking forward to the journey.

Tool is just a band. They are just a couple of guys making a shitload of money singing and playing instruments. The thing is, there are lots of bands doing this. I just can't imagine spending time looking deeper into their music like I do with Tool. I want there to be something more here -- and I believe over time I've found it. It's not just 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 minutes worth of music at a time. It's an experience. And nomatter what I end up taking out of it, it always seems worth it.

Thank you paraflux. Thoughts like yours really do add to the experience.

it just seems a disservice, considering the tripe that is played off as "just a band" these days to consider tool to be simply that. tool is not "just a band." at least not to me.
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anu's Avatar anu
05-07-2006, 11:51 PM
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Well, I just denied myself some sleep at the end of an all-day Tool binge to read this. Seriously savvy tool-nerds discussing the new disc in style.

I should have read this "fluxed"-up thread before starting my four.

After fondling the tickets for next week and listening to the album three or four times, I wrote about the album for eight hours straight, while listening to the album over and again.

Then I posted, and now I'm reading. Why I posted before reading is explained in my threads.
Old 05-07-2006, 11:51 PM   #181
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Well, I just denied myself some sleep at the end of an all-day Tool binge to read this. Seriously savvy tool-nerds discussing the new disc in style.

I should have read this "fluxed"-up thread before starting my four.

After fondling the tickets for next week and listening to the album three or four times, I wrote about the album for eight hours straight, while listening to the album over and again.

Then I posted, and now I'm reading. Why I posted before reading is explained in my threads.
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Liquid Vision
05-08-2006, 12:14 AM
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See. . .look at how much you people could have accomplished if you had used all that energy and brain power to do something productive instead of arguing over Maynard's bullshit. That's not enlightened at all. It's stupid.

Like I said. . .Maynard uses Tool as a podium to preach his political and social views to everyone while working out his own issues while gaining cult like status. Seriously, I don't know too many people that would kill themselves for, say, Metallica or Korn. However, if Maynard says jump his "army" says how high? I think his egotism/narcissism/etc is exposed in the fact that even his band doesn't like him. However, they gotta eat and pay the bills, and Maynard provides that for them with his lyrics and crap.

Sorry, like it or not insaner. . .Tool IS just a band. I mean shit, the first band that comes along and has cryptic lyrics, some weird freaky pictures on the album cover, and uses instruments other than drums and a guitar and everyone wants to crown them enlightened geniuses. It blows my mind. If Keenan was so Enlightened and interested in getting people over "the gap" then he wouldn't make all his shit innuendo atop innuendo. He wouldn't play hard to hear clips of shit behind the music and whisper really fast. He'd just say hey, here's the truth baby, take it or leave it. Or, he'd be living in Nepal on the top of a mountain somewhere eating grubs and dancing around naked while getting in touch with the spiritual realm. He would NOT be running a winery and charging an arm and a leg for everything Tool.

Use some common sense people. Go read a damn book. Draw a picture. Exercise. Make love to your girl. Quit obssessing over a 5 foot tall midget who likes to dress in womens clothing! :)

P.S. You're supposed to be thinking for yourselves, yet some dude with a mod tag comes on and posts a halfway persuasive rant and everyone jumps on board with OMG!!!!11!! THAT IS TEH GREATEST SHIT!!!11! FOR DA REALZ HE'S FIGURED IT OUT!!1!!1! (No offense flux)

If you believe what MJK says. . . "I read the interpretations of the lyrics that people send to the Tool web page. They're way off. But that's fine." Everyone has been posting this enlightenment shit for YEARS. Did anyone ever bother to stop and think that maybe this enlightenment shit was "way off"????

Last edited by Liquid Vision; 05-08-2006 at 12:19 AM..
Old 05-08-2006, 12:14 AM   #182
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

See. . .look at how much you people could have accomplished if you had used all that energy and brain power to do something productive instead of arguing over Maynard's bullshit. That's not enlightened at all. It's stupid.

Like I said. . .Maynard uses Tool as a podium to preach his political and social views to everyone while working out his own issues while gaining cult like status. Seriously, I don't know too many people that would kill themselves for, say, Metallica or Korn. However, if Maynard says jump his "army" says how high? I think his egotism/narcissism/etc is exposed in the fact that even his band doesn't like him. However, they gotta eat and pay the bills, and Maynard provides that for them with his lyrics and crap.

Sorry, like it or not insaner. . .Tool IS just a band. I mean shit, the first band that comes along and has cryptic lyrics, some weird freaky pictures on the album cover, and uses instruments other than drums and a guitar and everyone wants to crown them enlightened geniuses. It blows my mind. If Keenan was so Enlightened and interested in getting people over "the gap" then he wouldn't make all his shit innuendo atop innuendo. He wouldn't play hard to hear clips of shit behind the music and whisper really fast. He'd just say hey, here's the truth baby, take it or leave it. Or, he'd be living in Nepal on the top of a mountain somewhere eating grubs and dancing around naked while getting in touch with the spiritual realm. He would NOT be running a winery and charging an arm and a leg for everything Tool.

Use some common sense people. Go read a damn book. Draw a picture. Exercise. Make love to your girl. Quit obssessing over a 5 foot tall midget who likes to dress in womens clothing! :)

P.S. You're supposed to be thinking for yourselves, yet some dude with a mod tag comes on and posts a halfway persuasive rant and everyone jumps on board with OMG!!!!11!! THAT IS TEH GREATEST SHIT!!!11! FOR DA REALZ HE'S FIGURED IT OUT!!1!!1! (No offense flux)

If you believe what MJK says. . . "I read the interpretations of the lyrics that people send to the Tool web page. They're way off. But that's fine." Everyone has been posting this enlightenment shit for YEARS. Did anyone ever bother to stop and think that maybe this enlightenment shit was "way off"????

Last edited by Liquid Vision; 05-08-2006 at 12:19 AM..
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paraflux
05-08-2006, 04:32 AM
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Thank you for your opinion, Liquid Vision.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2 yet?
Old 05-08-2006, 04:32 AM   #183
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Thank you for your opinion, Liquid Vision.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2 yet?
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endless_nameless's Avatar endless_nameless
05-08-2006, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Thank you for your opinion, Liquid Vision.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2 yet?
Yes, I've heard it...Adam and Justin also swap roles frequently in the first verses of H before the chorus, as well as in a lot of other Tool songs - its a major part of their songwriting style. But yeah, I see what you mean about the symbolism in 46&2...its like Maynard steps through his shadow for the first time, it was a huge, climactic experience (hence the huge, climactic chorus) that represents him being able to detach and see the bigger picture of his life and the inner workings of his mind. After it was over he returned to his life, yet his life had subtly changed...good observation.

And seeing H. as a diagram makes a lot of sense, I've never understood the title of that song:)
Old 05-08-2006, 04:57 AM   #184
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Thank you for your opinion, Liquid Vision.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2 yet?
Yes, I've heard it...Adam and Justin also swap roles frequently in the first verses of H before the chorus, as well as in a lot of other Tool songs - its a major part of their songwriting style. But yeah, I see what you mean about the symbolism in 46&2...its like Maynard steps through his shadow for the first time, it was a huge, climactic experience (hence the huge, climactic chorus) that represents him being able to detach and see the bigger picture of his life and the inner workings of his mind. After it was over he returned to his life, yet his life had subtly changed...good observation.

And seeing H. as a diagram makes a lot of sense, I've never understood the title of that song:)
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endless_nameless's Avatar endless_nameless
05-08-2006, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Vision
See. . .look at how much you people could have accomplished if you had used all that energy and brain power to do something productive instead of arguing over Maynard's bullshit. That's not enlightened at all. It's stupid.

Like I said. . .Maynard uses Tool as a podium to preach his political and social views to everyone while working out his own issues while gaining cult like status. Seriously, I don't know too many people that would kill themselves for, say, Metallica or Korn. However, if Maynard says jump his "army" says how high? I think his egotism/narcissism/etc is exposed in the fact that even his band doesn't like him. However, they gotta eat and pay the bills, and Maynard provides that for them with his lyrics and crap.

Sorry, like it or not insaner. . .Tool IS just a band. I mean shit, the first band that comes along and has cryptic lyrics, some weird freaky pictures on the album cover, and uses instruments other than drums and a guitar and everyone wants to crown them enlightened geniuses. It blows my mind. If Keenan was so Enlightened and interested in getting people over "the gap" then he wouldn't make all his shit innuendo atop innuendo. He wouldn't play hard to hear clips of shit behind the music and whisper really fast. He'd just say hey, here's the truth baby, take it or leave it. Or, he'd be living in Nepal on the top of a mountain somewhere eating grubs and dancing around naked while getting in touch with the spiritual realm. He would NOT be running a winery and charging an arm and a leg for everything Tool.

Use some common sense people. Go read a damn book. Draw a picture. Exercise. Make love to your girl. Quit obssessing over a 5 foot tall midget who likes to dress in womens clothing! :)

P.S. You're supposed to be thinking for yourselves, yet some dude with a mod tag comes on and posts a halfway persuasive rant and everyone jumps on board with OMG!!!!11!! THAT IS TEH GREATEST SHIT!!!11! FOR DA REALZ HE'S FIGURED IT OUT!!1!!1! (No offense flux)

If you believe what MJK says. . . "I read the interpretations of the lyrics that people send to the Tool web page. They're way off. But that's fine." Everyone has been posting this enlightenment shit for YEARS. Did anyone ever bother to stop and think that maybe this enlightenment shit was "way off"????

You're entitled to your opinion, but please stop preaching your opinions as though they were irrefutable facts that only morons wouldn't already know...cause I tell ya, it gets REAL fucking annoying.

And another thing...be nice. Hostility and insults can only get you so far.
Old 05-08-2006, 05:07 AM   #185
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Vision
See. . .look at how much you people could have accomplished if you had used all that energy and brain power to do something productive instead of arguing over Maynard's bullshit. That's not enlightened at all. It's stupid.

Like I said. . .Maynard uses Tool as a podium to preach his political and social views to everyone while working out his own issues while gaining cult like status. Seriously, I don't know too many people that would kill themselves for, say, Metallica or Korn. However, if Maynard says jump his "army" says how high? I think his egotism/narcissism/etc is exposed in the fact that even his band doesn't like him. However, they gotta eat and pay the bills, and Maynard provides that for them with his lyrics and crap.

Sorry, like it or not insaner. . .Tool IS just a band. I mean shit, the first band that comes along and has cryptic lyrics, some weird freaky pictures on the album cover, and uses instruments other than drums and a guitar and everyone wants to crown them enlightened geniuses. It blows my mind. If Keenan was so Enlightened and interested in getting people over "the gap" then he wouldn't make all his shit innuendo atop innuendo. He wouldn't play hard to hear clips of shit behind the music and whisper really fast. He'd just say hey, here's the truth baby, take it or leave it. Or, he'd be living in Nepal on the top of a mountain somewhere eating grubs and dancing around naked while getting in touch with the spiritual realm. He would NOT be running a winery and charging an arm and a leg for everything Tool.

Use some common sense people. Go read a damn book. Draw a picture. Exercise. Make love to your girl. Quit obssessing over a 5 foot tall midget who likes to dress in womens clothing! :)

P.S. You're supposed to be thinking for yourselves, yet some dude with a mod tag comes on and posts a halfway persuasive rant and everyone jumps on board with OMG!!!!11!! THAT IS TEH GREATEST SHIT!!!11! FOR DA REALZ HE'S FIGURED IT OUT!!1!!1! (No offense flux)

If you believe what MJK says. . . "I read the interpretations of the lyrics that people send to the Tool web page. They're way off. But that's fine." Everyone has been posting this enlightenment shit for YEARS. Did anyone ever bother to stop and think that maybe this enlightenment shit was "way off"????

You're entitled to your opinion, but please stop preaching your opinions as though they were irrefutable facts that only morons wouldn't already know...cause I tell ya, it gets REAL fucking annoying.

And another thing...be nice. Hostility and insults can only get you so far.
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jwb's Avatar jwb
05-08-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Thank you for your opinion, Liquid Vision.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2 yet?
Sounds about right, but you may want to check out that book 'Everything in this book is false, but it's exactly how things are' or something like that, by Frizzel (again, his name is similar to that, but I'm at work so I don't have it in front of me). Anyway, he describes 46&2 as a level of consciousness (or plane) that one can ascend to through merkaba meditation. It (the light or whatever) is manifested in the chakra of the solar plexis (sp), then you imagine it moving up your body to each different charka (see the Parabola video for exact locations). Once achieved he refers to it as Christ Consciousness. It gives one the ability to understand and communicate better with the universe.
Old 05-08-2006, 05:24 AM   #186
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Thank you for your opinion, Liquid Vision.

Anyone heard what I was talking about in 46&2 yet?
Sounds about right, but you may want to check out that book 'Everything in this book is false, but it's exactly how things are' or something like that, by Frizzel (again, his name is similar to that, but I'm at work so I don't have it in front of me). Anyway, he describes 46&2 as a level of consciousness (or plane) that one can ascend to through merkaba meditation. It (the light or whatever) is manifested in the chakra of the solar plexis (sp), then you imagine it moving up your body to each different charka (see the Parabola video for exact locations). Once achieved he refers to it as Christ Consciousness. It gives one the ability to understand and communicate better with the universe.
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paraflux
05-08-2006, 05:38 AM
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I've read it. I would encourage those who havent had much experience with shit like this to check it out, however, I do think that the premise of the book is what's more important than actually taking that book as historical and factual truth.
Old 05-08-2006, 05:38 AM   #187
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

I've read it. I would encourage those who havent had much experience with shit like this to check it out, however, I do think that the premise of the book is what's more important than actually taking that book as historical and factual truth.
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jwb's Avatar jwb
05-08-2006, 06:36 AM
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Right on. That Drunvalo (sp) dude is stretching the limits of believability, but there is a lot of good info included.
Edit to those interested it's called,
'Nothing in this book is True, but it's exactly how things are' by Robert Frizzel

Good Stuff on Sacred Geometry, importance of the Spiral, Merkaba, etc.
Old 05-08-2006, 06:36 AM   #188
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Right on. That Drunvalo (sp) dude is stretching the limits of believability, but there is a lot of good info included.
Edit to those interested it's called,
'Nothing in this book is True, but it's exactly how things are' by Robert Frizzel

Good Stuff on Sacred Geometry, importance of the Spiral, Merkaba, etc.
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blair's man sausage's Avatar blair's man sausage
05-08-2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I've read it. I would encourage those who havent had much experience with shit like this to check it out, however, I do think that the premise of the book is what's more important than actually taking that book as historical and factual truth.
as far as 46 & 2, I've always thought of it as the initial piece to truly stimulate my mind's eye. Sure there have been others but this song coupled with the Frissell books (nothing in this book & something in this book) have sent me on a journey that has expanded my level of awareness and altered all of my perceptions.....cheers on the rest of this thread as well
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Old 05-08-2006, 07:13 AM   #189
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I've read it. I would encourage those who havent had much experience with shit like this to check it out, however, I do think that the premise of the book is what's more important than actually taking that book as historical and factual truth.
as far as 46 & 2, I've always thought of it as the initial piece to truly stimulate my mind's eye. Sure there have been others but this song coupled with the Frissell books (nothing in this book & something in this book) have sent me on a journey that has expanded my level of awareness and altered all of my perceptions.....cheers on the rest of this thread as well
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05-08-2006, 07:38 AM
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Damn you, paraflux! I couldn't stop reading this infernal analysis, and now I'll only have five hours' sleep before work tomorrow!


:D
Old 05-08-2006, 07:38 AM   #190
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Damn you, paraflux! I couldn't stop reading this infernal analysis, and now I'll only have five hours' sleep before work tomorrow!


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Descencia's Avatar Descencia
05-08-2006, 08:18 AM
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Hey paraflux, your interpretation of 10k Days is pretty spot-on and mirrors most of what I have gathered the album to be about. While it's not my favorite musically, lyrically it is very interesting. But one thing that Tool seems to be very naive about is ever expecting anyone to break out of their day-to-day shell of existence and become something truly profound as their lyrics try to expound on. This is not to say that they offer this window of enlightenment for naught but I doubt that playing a Tool CD for a Klan member will make much of a difference. It's in the lyrics that they try to express what humans can become, but probably won't due to our own egos and self-importance. Tool are definitely messengers of a greater step but becoming that is up to us.

It's also very possible that they have had a general outline already planned for each album since Opiate and this is just the 5th section or movement of it. I don't think every band starts with a fresh concept whenever it's time to get back in the studio. A lot of it is already shaped years before I think. Especially with progressive bands that do more conceptual albums. As far as them using old sections of songs, it didn't make sense to me until I heard Right In Two and heard the ending of Forty-Six & 2 in there. That song is about final evolution and Right In Two is saying we HAVE NOT FUCKING EVOLVED AT ALL. We kill each other just as brutally and frequently as in Prehistoric times when we were Cavemen and it's not any more dignified now as it was then. Monkeys killing monkeys indeed.
Old 05-08-2006, 08:18 AM   #191
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Hey paraflux, your interpretation of 10k Days is pretty spot-on and mirrors most of what I have gathered the album to be about. While it's not my favorite musically, lyrically it is very interesting. But one thing that Tool seems to be very naive about is ever expecting anyone to break out of their day-to-day shell of existence and become something truly profound as their lyrics try to expound on. This is not to say that they offer this window of enlightenment for naught but I doubt that playing a Tool CD for a Klan member will make much of a difference. It's in the lyrics that they try to express what humans can become, but probably won't due to our own egos and self-importance. Tool are definitely messengers of a greater step but becoming that is up to us.

It's also very possible that they have had a general outline already planned for each album since Opiate and this is just the 5th section or movement of it. I don't think every band starts with a fresh concept whenever it's time to get back in the studio. A lot of it is already shaped years before I think. Especially with progressive bands that do more conceptual albums. As far as them using old sections of songs, it didn't make sense to me until I heard Right In Two and heard the ending of Forty-Six & 2 in there. That song is about final evolution and Right In Two is saying we HAVE NOT FUCKING EVOLVED AT ALL. We kill each other just as brutally and frequently as in Prehistoric times when we were Cavemen and it's not any more dignified now as it was then. Monkeys killing monkeys indeed.
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paraflux
05-08-2006, 08:20 AM
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What point are you talking about in Right in Two? I think perhaps when I am talking about the end of AEnima showing up in there, you are hearing 46&2. Not saying I am right, and you are wrong, I just want to know what point you are talking about.
Old 05-08-2006, 08:20 AM   #192
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

What point are you talking about in Right in Two? I think perhaps when I am talking about the end of AEnima showing up in there, you are hearing 46&2. Not saying I am right, and you are wrong, I just want to know what point you are talking about.
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shifty50fs
05-08-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
What point are you talking about in Right in Two? I think perhaps when I am talking about the end of AEnima showing up in there, you are hearing 46&2. Not saying I am right, and you are wrong, I just want to know what point you are talking about.
I'm guessing 6:44. Definite throwback with Danny and Justin playing the offbeats of Adam's very 46&2-ish riff.
Old 05-08-2006, 08:25 AM   #193
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
What point are you talking about in Right in Two? I think perhaps when I am talking about the end of AEnima showing up in there, you are hearing 46&2. Not saying I am right, and you are wrong, I just want to know what point you are talking about.
I'm guessing 6:44. Definite throwback with Danny and Justin playing the offbeats of Adam's very 46&2-ish riff.
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paraflux
05-08-2006, 08:53 AM
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You guys are right. It's 46&2, not AEnima. I'll edit my original post.
Old 05-08-2006, 08:53 AM   #194
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

You guys are right. It's 46&2, not AEnima. I'll edit my original post.
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insaner's Avatar insaner
05-08-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Vision
See. . .look at how much you people could have accomplished if you had used all that energy and brain power to do something productive instead of arguing over Maynard's bullshit. That's not enlightened at all. It's stupid.

Like I said. . .Maynard uses Tool as a podium to preach his political and social views to everyone while working out his own issues while gaining cult like status. Seriously, I don't know too many people that would kill themselves for, say, Metallica or Korn. However, if Maynard says jump his "army" says how high? I think his egotism/narcissism/etc is exposed in the fact that even his band doesn't like him. However, they gotta eat and pay the bills, and Maynard provides that for them with his lyrics and crap.

Sorry, like it or not insaner. . .Tool IS just a band. I mean shit, the first band that comes along and has cryptic lyrics, some weird freaky pictures on the album cover, and uses instruments other than drums and a guitar and everyone wants to crown them enlightened geniuses. It blows my mind. If Keenan was so Enlightened and interested in getting people over "the gap" then he wouldn't make all his shit innuendo atop innuendo. He wouldn't play hard to hear clips of shit behind the music and whisper really fast. He'd just say hey, here's the truth baby, take it or leave it. Or, he'd be living in Nepal on the top of a mountain somewhere eating grubs and dancing around naked while getting in touch with the spiritual realm. He would NOT be running a winery and charging an arm and a leg for everything Tool.

Use some common sense people. Go read a damn book. Draw a picture. Exercise. Make love to your girl. Quit obssessing over a 5 foot tall midget who likes to dress in womens clothing! :)

P.S. You're supposed to be thinking for yourselves, yet some dude with a mod tag comes on and posts a halfway persuasive rant and everyone jumps on board with OMG!!!!11!! THAT IS TEH GREATEST SHIT!!!11! FOR DA REALZ HE'S FIGURED IT OUT!!1!!1! (No offense flux)

If you believe what MJK says. . . "I read the interpretations of the lyrics that people send to the Tool web page. They're way off. But that's fine." Everyone has been posting this enlightenment shit for YEARS. Did anyone ever bother to stop and think that maybe this enlightenment shit was "way off"????
sorry man, i agree with everything youve said in relation to flux's post. maynard is a total whore and narcissistic etc, but i stand by my statement that when these four people get together a magic happens outside of the normal realm of pop music today. the level of effort, the artistry, the just unfuckingbelievable ability to evoke emotion in the listener, etc is far and above what most other bands alive are doing in the genre. tool is important, what they have to say is important. why cant we take the philosophical rants of our favorite artists as seriously as any other sort of teacher. most of the great teachers ive ever known, or read about for that matter, were total ego-maniacs.

anyways, to surmise, i agree in your take on the phenomenon, but i disagree that tool "is just a band" as vehemently as i believe that picasso was not "just an artist." some artists (musical or otherwise) transcend culture and actually move society away from its moors.
Old 05-08-2006, 09:54 AM   #195
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Vision
See. . .look at how much you people could have accomplished if you had used all that energy and brain power to do something productive instead of arguing over Maynard's bullshit. That's not enlightened at all. It's stupid.

Like I said. . .Maynard uses Tool as a podium to preach his political and social views to everyone while working out his own issues while gaining cult like status. Seriously, I don't know too many people that would kill themselves for, say, Metallica or Korn. However, if Maynard says jump his "army" says how high? I think his egotism/narcissism/etc is exposed in the fact that even his band doesn't like him. However, they gotta eat and pay the bills, and Maynard provides that for them with his lyrics and crap.

Sorry, like it or not insaner. . .Tool IS just a band. I mean shit, the first band that comes along and has cryptic lyrics, some weird freaky pictures on the album cover, and uses instruments other than drums and a guitar and everyone wants to crown them enlightened geniuses. It blows my mind. If Keenan was so Enlightened and interested in getting people over "the gap" then he wouldn't make all his shit innuendo atop innuendo. He wouldn't play hard to hear clips of shit behind the music and whisper really fast. He'd just say hey, here's the truth baby, take it or leave it. Or, he'd be living in Nepal on the top of a mountain somewhere eating grubs and dancing around naked while getting in touch with the spiritual realm. He would NOT be running a winery and charging an arm and a leg for everything Tool.

Use some common sense people. Go read a damn book. Draw a picture. Exercise. Make love to your girl. Quit obssessing over a 5 foot tall midget who likes to dress in womens clothing! :)

P.S. You're supposed to be thinking for yourselves, yet some dude with a mod tag comes on and posts a halfway persuasive rant and everyone jumps on board with OMG!!!!11!! THAT IS TEH GREATEST SHIT!!!11! FOR DA REALZ HE'S FIGURED IT OUT!!1!!1! (No offense flux)

If you believe what MJK says. . . "I read the interpretations of the lyrics that people send to the Tool web page. They're way off. But that's fine." Everyone has been posting this enlightenment shit for YEARS. Did anyone ever bother to stop and think that maybe this enlightenment shit was "way off"????
sorry man, i agree with everything youve said in relation to flux's post. maynard is a total whore and narcissistic etc, but i stand by my statement that when these four people get together a magic happens outside of the normal realm of pop music today. the level of effort, the artistry, the just unfuckingbelievable ability to evoke emotion in the listener, etc is far and above what most other bands alive are doing in the genre. tool is important, what they have to say is important. why cant we take the philosophical rants of our favorite artists as seriously as any other sort of teacher. most of the great teachers ive ever known, or read about for that matter, were total ego-maniacs.

anyways, to surmise, i agree in your take on the phenomenon, but i disagree that tool "is just a band" as vehemently as i believe that picasso was not "just an artist." some artists (musical or otherwise) transcend culture and actually move society away from its moors.
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05-08-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
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I’ve always said that Tool records follow a certain pattern, that the next release from the band sounds like the last song on the preceding record, and that the last song on any record could have very well have been on the next record, almost as if they were giving us a preview.
I guess the next album will be... interesting then.
Old 05-08-2006, 10:03 AM   #196
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

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Originally Posted by paraflux
I’ve always said that Tool records follow a certain pattern, that the next release from the band sounds like the last song on the preceding record, and that the last song on any record could have very well have been on the next record, almost as if they were giving us a preview.
I guess the next album will be... interesting then.
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05-08-2006, 11:48 AM
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where does salival fit into this master plan?
Old 05-08-2006, 11:48 AM   #197
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

where does salival fit into this master plan?
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05-08-2006, 12:07 PM
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I dont feel it's that relevant. Perhaps it is, but really, it's a collection of covers (or remakes, however you look at it), and live songs, to accompany their collection of videos. I think No Quarter was a good choice, it's done extremely well.
Old 05-08-2006, 12:07 PM   #198
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

I dont feel it's that relevant. Perhaps it is, but really, it's a collection of covers (or remakes, however you look at it), and live songs, to accompany their collection of videos. I think No Quarter was a good choice, it's done extremely well.
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05-08-2006, 12:21 PM
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No Quarter was an excellent choice. Bravo on your post by the way.

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Old 05-08-2006, 12:21 PM   #199
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

No Quarter was an excellent choice. Bravo on your post by the way.

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05-08-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinesthesis
...do what it takes to step through.
I'll do that later
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I think I fucked your girlfriend once. Maybe twice, I don't remember
Then I fucked all your friend's girlfriends. Now they hate you
Old 05-08-2006, 12:45 PM   #200
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Re: The fluxerpretation of 10,000 Days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinesthesis
...do what it takes to step through.
I'll do that later
__________________
I think I fucked your girlfriend once. Maybe twice, I don't remember
Then I fucked all your friend's girlfriends. Now they hate you
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