Makes sense to me! I had reservations about not including it, but your views make sense.

Alrighty there Nostradamus.

*tingles*....my third eye popped out somewhere in the explanation of jabmi. seriously.

it feels like i have all of this new information which i will never be able to *completely* disassemble and i have been itching for the way it makes me feel, hoping to find this big important conclusive answer.... that 'on the tip of your brain but you can't put your finger on it' feeling.

paraflux, your interpretation is amazing. i feel like i did after the first time i really "got" lateralus: more enlightened than i did before, but something even BIGGER was left out for the imagination. 10KD, same feeling. is this our rosetta stone, everything we need to put the pieces together on our own if we want in on this "division"??

hooked on tool. how ironic.

You guys are looking too deeply into this album. Tool is just another band (a good one at that in terms of musicianship) consisting of everyday people just like you and I. They don't hold the key to the fourth dimension. Maynard, while he talented in many respects, practically reiterates whats been taught in New Ageism for many years. Hes like the modern day shirley maclaine. I would suggest that you look into books that are by Carlos Casteneda, Eckhart Tolle, and David Hawkins and you'll discover much more comprehensive explanations of human nature than from some mere album or musician.

You know, just to give you an idea of how futile it is telling people on this website to stop Overanalyzing an album is, judging by your infinite wisdom of having been on this website for a whopping three months, you should possibly go into the Lateralus album forum, believe me, the whole Tool is a bunch of regular guys viewpoint is nothing new, so just stop posting about it, because you're preaching to the deaf.

NOW TO CONTINUE WITH THE OVERANALYSIS!

The last few things on Intension, are the words Move By Will Alone, referencing the spirit. And then two fading breaths, which possibly represent a death of some form. We have the many voices, meaning a crowd watching it (which would continue the theme of vicarious) and then the fading breaths, then the slowing down of all the instruments into nothing. It sounds like someone dying in that song at the end.

The analysis on Right In Two is pretty good, so I'm not going to argue that with a ten foot stick

But I'm wondering on Viginti Tres, since their was a death, and then we have a viewpoint from Angels during Right In Two, could Viginti Tres be considered meeting the creator itself. Since we have the references to "Should you see your makers face tonight" in WIngs For Marie and 10,000 Days, maybe Viginti Tres is enacting that. Since there is the idea that we would never understand gods voice, maybe the voice at the mid point of Viginti Tres is meeting the creator.

I dont know, but thats the last time I sit here and listen to the cd and actually focus on it, I sound like an actual TDN poster, and thats not a good sign

simply amazing, thank you

Sorry, I'm a little late on the response. But outstanding post, Flux. The best I've seen.

And I love all you guys.

i fucking love the part in disposition right before reflection starts where danny holds his drumstick in his fingers and picks the tip up with the other hand and drops it and connects that drumstick to the world by letting gravity do what it does to the stick. think about this, when he does that the earth made that drumstick move at that moment, not danny.

what an awesome fucking thought. threads like this, and posts like yours are why i love tool fans.

See, this is annoying: you belittle Tool by describing them as "...just another band...everyday people just like you and I" who "...don't hold the key to the fourth dimension", and hence conclude that people who interpret, analyse and discuss meaning in Tool's art are "...looking too deeply" for "...comprehensive explanations of human nature...from some mere album or musician."

What's your point? That people who are inspired by and learn from Tool's music don't think the band consists of human members? How does knowing that they are "everyday people like you and I" (whatver the fuck that means) lead you to the conclusion that these people are incapable of attaining wisdom and insight, and are likewise incapable of producing great works of art that share their feelings and ideas with us; works of art that can be experienced and interpreted on multiple levels (hence this thread)? And, on top of this, you also feel that just because the members of Tool are not only mere humans, but mere human MUSICIANS at that, the very fact that they can be anything other than just "another band" is laughable? Since when have musicians and artists not been able to produce works of great import and profundity, and since when has the fact that they're human come as any sort of disappointing revelation!?! (Also, your evidence for Tool not holding the key to the fourth dimension can be described as "nonexistant" at best...)

But wait, I see you've impaled yourself on your own sword...I hate to break it to you, but the writers you've referred us to for your "...comprehensive explanations of human nature" are nothing but mere HUMANS! Hah, and here you were thinking they were intelligent, deep and insightful...you must be a musician:)

Beautiful.

where have all you guys been the last few weeks...its been a mindfuck of angry flaming and unsubstantiated speculation. This may end up being a legendary thread - potentially changing a lot of ppls opinions of this record.

I will reiterate this point:
I believe that the song that needs to be explained to me is Rosetta Stoned. This is an incredible piece of music IMO, however it is confusing, and somewhat out of place. Typically that wouldn't bother me, but Lateralus flowed so well that it is a bit unnerving to hear a song like this placed where it is.

Someone tell me, is this song a joke or satire or what?

Another question I have is, why call this album "10,000 Days"? Clearly the whole album isn't about Judith's 27 years of suffering. Or is it? I suspect that "10,000 Days" has something to do with a coming of age for MJK...or something...

Once again i remember someone saying that Adam said that "coming up with a title for this album is almost as hard as writing the album itself". I would guess that they would pick a songtitle to be the album title - Imagine if this album was called "Rosetta Stoned"!!! That would change how we view things a little bit.

It all just makes me think that this record really doesn't have the flow that Adam wanted. But ya know what? I dont care. Bravo to Tool because this is still a great fucking album... just a little weird

Good report, Sir 22 posts.

This marks the first time I have ever added a forum thread to my bookmarks.

I hope so as well.

I spent a lot of time on this song, Dont know if I can explain it much better from my perspective on it. It's disjointed because it's only fragments of the message coming through his head, he cant quite remember, but it's right there...

Because this album mourns.

This is a very insightful analyzation. How you would come up with it in such a short time is beyond me. This a thread that should seriously be stickied before it goes to page 2 and nobody looks at it again.

HAHAHAHA! it comes at about the "TOOL title track" point in the album, in any case. if someone told me "psst! the new album is coming out in a couple months, it's called 'rosetta stoned'." it would have given away everything i was hoping to hear... what a catchy ambiguity!

If someone told us it was called "Rosetta Stoned," we'd be REALLY pissed when we found out it was actually being put on the shelves.

Did you read the Revolver interview and hear some of the names that MJK joked that they were thinking about calling the album? I forget them now, but they were kind of funny.

...Withering my intuition....

I'm impressed paraflux. I haven't seen too many well thought out responses to this album, regardless of opinion.

Personally, I have no clue what to think. I started off listeding to Vicarious on the radio. Liked it, and was ready to welcome back Tool. Was disapointed first time through the album. It's since grown quite a bit on me. More than that, a couple of songs completely blow me away. I don't know where things will end up, but I'm looking forward to the journey.

Tool is just a band. They are just a couple of guys making a shitload of money singing and playing instruments. The thing is, there are lots of bands doing this. I just can't imagine spending time looking deeper into their music like I do with Tool. I want there to be something more here -- and I believe over time I've found it. It's not just 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 minutes worth of music at a time. It's an experience. And nomatter what I end up taking out of it, it always seems worth it.

Thank you paraflux. Thoughts like yours really do add to the experience.

everyone who listens or has listened to this album, should read Paraflux's interpretation... good post. keep this thread up.

Paraflux- I found your post to be a very good exposition of some of the central themes of the album. I strongly agree with your opinion about the message of the album on the whole (and what tool is doing to us, the audience, with it), and mostly agree with your song interpretations.

BUT... I do not agree that there is a lack of hope on this album. I think lateralus was an album centered on union, transcendence, and an ultimate understanding that our experience is a single wave on an ocean of light and sound, creating itself constantly anew in a fractal dream.

10,000 Days is the understanding that this sense of union and order makes the world of our experience even more confusing. So to a great degree, we are faced with themes of turmoil, division, conflict, and inhumanity. But I have always thought of tool as being a band that deals with negativity in order to eschew it.

I agree that tool must be sick of spoon-feeding the same people whom they have poured so much effort into educating, at least to the degree that we should know by now to go out and find our own answers. But I don't think this resulted in the omission of hope from this album, I think they just sprinkled it around instead of summing up with it, like usual.

e.g-
Jambi- "divided I'm withered, shine until the two become one" "breathe in union"

Wings 1&2- I find the overall message to reflect that while many follow religion in unproductive ways, the faith of Judith through her suffering is a testament to the power of the Divine- "This little light of mine that you passed on to me, I'm gonna let it shine to guide you safely on your way" (or "who could deny you were the one who gave me your little piece of the divine") - especially strikes me as Maynard saying 'thanks mom, for showing me that there was something about God/spirituality which is worthwhile to study and understand, even if my path was not the same as yours' which is bolstered by the "you were my witness, my eyes, my evidence" lyric.

Intension- "pure as we begin, pure as we come in" then it foreshadows the division which is spoken of in right in two, and ends again "pure as we begin, pure as we come in." In this way, I think intension is the hope of the album.

Aside from meaning "a state/degree of intensity," in logic intension means "the sum of the attributes contained in a term." I think this is the point- that whatever happens in between, if we look at the bigger picture, we are always our pure, eternal selves, undivided and guided by a unified Will.

It seems confusing, it seems hostile, it seems unintelligible, and sometimes downright disheartening, but if we hold this knowledge with us, it will help us "reach out to embrace the random, reach out to embrace whatever may come," but we must "be patient" like the aeon blue apocalypse riff at the beginning and end of intension tells us, tying things beautifully back to lateralus, thematically and musically.

So perhaps this album is "a message of hope for those who choose to listen, and a warning for those who do not."

I just read the rest, flux. Fucking great stuff, good job. I definitely say Sticky this.

As you said all the way through, the gap, the 2 sides. Rosetta Stoned.. the choice of hearing/listening to the "message" that the being gives to the narrator. I think it also has a lot to do with real life.

With this post, you've taken Tool's message depths even deeper than everyone thought they already were. Sure their lyrics and mysticism has been deep, gloomy, and mysterious, but this is like core-of-the-earth-depth kind of shit.

But back to how Rosetta work with your theories about real life. Tool are the alien, giving us the message of hope/warning. If the doctor/nurse were hearing this insane babble coming from this mysterious patient about an alien abduction and the end as we know it, I'm sure they were inclined to think the guy was insane. Now relate that to our lives. I'm sure after this in-depth review of Tool you've given, any time someone asks me what a Tool song is about, I'm going to feel compelled to give them this whole shabang. I'm the alien to them. Paraflux, you're the alien to us. Tool are the alien to all of us. If my friends asked me about Tool and I told them this hugely long, elaborate, deep analysis of every one of their works, they'd be inclined to think i'm insane.. just like the doctor/nurse thought the patient was totally insane (though we don't get that clarification, we can infer).

I hope that all makes sense. If it doesn't, I'll do a more concentrated post about this.

Sticky it, at the least.
They should have this as a disclaimer before you sign up.

[QUOTE=Ocelot199]Nope. APC is dead now.

Yes for now, (imo) good.

But only time will tell ... we can argue that later. :)

I am sure you consider the band to consist of "human members", but in paraflux's case he holds them up to a higher light, because if anyone in our time will push the boundaries of human consciousness or get us onto the other side of the gap (LMAO) its Maynard. If such a side of a gap exists im 100% sure Maynards never been there. Have you ever studied the likes of Kirekegaard, Rand, Nietschhze, Tolstoy, or Castenada? Do the existentialist or objectivist schools of thought ring a bell? Yes the aforementioned may be mere humans but theyve reached such uncanny "insight and wisdom" thats so profound and influential that even to this day we're studying them. They make Tool's "divine message" seem like Dr.Seuss books. I highly doubt that even years from now we will be interpreting Tool albums to gain insight on human nature, yet i can't say the same thing for someone like a Kirkegaard. Yes there have been artistis and musicians who have been able to produce works of great import and profundity. However, I don't see it in Tool. If anything Maynard has blatantly ripped off a bunch of New Age psuedoscience (most of which are garbage) so that dumbfucks can "experience and interpret" and feel as if theyve accomplished something in their lives. If anything Maynard is doing all this to fuck with our heads and put food on his table. Hes a womanizer, lives in a mansion with a nice car, clothes, etc. Just another liberal hypocrite who goes for the anti-marketing dollar.

What you wrote was pure speculation (DUH!) just like a dual disc set or 10,000 days being a decoy album was pure speculation. And when you make such speculations you're bound to be WRONG. Have a nice day! :)

i read paraflux's entire post, but im afraid that this post is the one i agree with. this record isnt very esoteric IMO.

Good stuff. Sticky-worthy for sure.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the explanation for the re-hashing of old riffs. I'm pretty sure most of the music was done sans-Maynard. I remember reading that the band would send MJK early demos while he was out with APC so he could start penning lyrics, and Adam wished that Maynard was more involved in the musical writing process. If that's the case, I don't know if the band could forsee MJK writing lyrics that would point back to earlier songs, thus they needed to bring back old riffs. Then again, they could have been added later (once Maynard returned) to match up with his lyrics. Who knows? They have done it before though, kinda. Check out the song Undertow then play No Quarter. I think a riff may have been borrowed.

Couldn't have said it better.

You're comparing art with philosophy, way to go. Art is supposed to inspire "insight and wisdom" not spout it. If this weren't the case then none of the people you listed would have written in prose, but in poetry.

Don't be so quick to dash Tool's art on the ground and point at these people as the answers, nobody likes a cocksucker.

Im talking about the philosophy within the art. And isnt prose a form of poetry.

Right, but you're expecting too much from art for it to be actual philosophy. It would be foolish to live your life based on what tool says, but they can inspire some heavy thoughts (just look at flux's interpretation). The true Rand's and Nietschhzes of the world will hear or see art like this and think "eureka!"

Anyway, I want to return this thread to the topic of flux's interpretation.

I am not going to read every reply, but I did read your post(s) Flux, and here is what I have to say:

I agree. I was one of those people who downloaded the album before it released (raced to the store to buy it the day it came out though!). I've always felt that this album was overtly depressing. It doesn't make me cry, but it makes me feel this overwhelming burden. There are no songs that are happy, and uplifting. It's like they are saying, "Look, we've said it all before, and we tried to get you to see it our way. You don't want to listen? Maybe you'll be more inclined to head our warnings if we tell you what is going to happen."

It's scary, and my friend and I both agree that this album is one of the most depressing albums to be released in a long time.

I am also a strong preacher that this is the best album Tool has made.

Alright, i always thought there was such a thing as prose poetry, but whatever. Anyway, I do admire flux going through the trouble, and i admit i overreacted in my previous post, but I still stand by the notion that he is looking too deeply into things. Just my opinion. Theyre great musicians, but nothing more than that. And I dont think the Rands and Nietschzes would even bother with Tool. It would be like you or me wasting time with Saturday morning cartoons.

Actually, Nietzsche loved music, and considered it a saving grace of humanity.

Yes, but would he have listened to Tool. I dunno maybe he would have. Its definitely better than most of the crap thats out there nowadays. But I highly doubt it would have much sway on his life philosophy. Besides do you think he really cared much for all these spiritual pipe dreams, astral projection, getting to the other side of the gap.

Nice work, Flux; couldn't have put it better myself.

Or could you? I dare you to try.