Which do you like better..Aenima or Salival version?
i definetly like the Salival version better. i'm a big fan of remixes, especially when it makes the song sound better and this is one of those cases i think. The Salival version is so much more calm and warm and sincere.
what does everyone else think?
__________________ Derek
"some people don't even think i'm a robot, they think im puerto rican and just really good at math."- Sad Bot
Well the thing with the two different versions is that they are two different versions. They both work at different times. I like the AEnema version when I'm feeling like crap because it pulls me out of my emotions for a time. The I must persuade you another way. part of the song is easily my favorite part of any Tool song (with perhaps the exception of 46&2). Just that a voice like that can come out of such an emotionally gut wrenching song. It (for lack of a better term) speeks to me.
The Salival version on the other hand is much calmer. The intro gets me into a mood that is great for the way they redid the song. It's easy to meditate too, or if that's not your thing, just relax to.
It all just really depends on what mood I'm in at the time.
i'd say the salival version is the better one. and logically so; its an expansion of the previous version, certainly in musical terms. to label it a remix would be a bit strong. the vocals are beyond reproach on both versions and as for the music well i think the salival version allows the song to gain that extra bit of character, making it more definite, more accomplished, sharper and ultimately more impressive. the language of the music becomes more pronounced, it comes at you with greater impact. of course we wouldn't even be discussing this matter if there was only one version of the song, so lets hear it for the both of them!
I like the live version of one of my favorite songs better. Before singing it in concert, Maynard asked the audience to put themselves in a 'vulnerable space' and to listen to the song in a new way. I was happy that they included that narrative on the Salival CD. Takes guts to remake an already wonderful song.
Originally posted by Mister i'd say the salival version is the better one. and logically so; its an expansion of the previous version, certainly in musical terms. to label it a remix would be a bit strong. the vocals are beyond reproach on both versions and as for the music well i think the salival version allows the song to gain that extra bit of character, making it more definite, more accomplished, sharper and ultimately more impressive. the language of the music becomes more pronounced, it comes at you with greater impact. of course we wouldn't even be discussing this matter if there was only one version of the song, so lets hear it for the both of them!
The salival version of Pushit may well be an expansion of the AEnema version, but the AEnema did come first. If you've read Descartes you will probably remember his Cause & Effect example (not sure which book it's in). To use an example: An acorn contains all the elements of a tree, but the tree cannot contain more elements than were originally found in the acorn. What is more perfect cannot arise from what is less perfect. Therefore the Salival version can't be better than the AEnima version, because the AEnema version contained everything that the Salival version contained and more so. I don't think that it can be a matter of better, as I said earlier it depends on your mood, and as you said earlier we wouldn't be discussing the matter without bother versions. So lets hear it for AEnema when we feel like rocking, and Salival when we just want to relax.
i cant decide which version is better. the salival version is soo deep and thundering, but the original still has somethign to it. but if i were to pick one... salival
my favourite tool song changes week by week but overall; the aenima version of pushit is my favourite.
I see the salival version as being an entire different entity and effects me in entirely different ways then the aenima version. They both make me cry more than any other song that has ever existed, and as a male, i dont see it as being a common thing to cry during a song, pushit overwhelms me.
i have felt recently that i do not want to be so completely overwhelmed and it has been 76 days since i have heard either version, which is a fucking lot since i usually listen to around an hour and a half of tool everyday, although less since my 76 day banning of pushit.
I had my last exams 2 days ago and i think tonight is the night i allow pushit back into my world. fuck yeah!
Originally posted by Mister to label it a remix would be a bit strong.
my definition of a remix is changing the sound of a song, but still keeping the basic sound and idea of the original.
or like maynard says in the intro on Salival "we've taking one of our songs and looking at it in a different light, from a different angle...to see it almost for the first time"
thats why i say that the salival version is a remix
its the same thing as the lounge version of "hooker with a penis"...its the same song, just played differently....thus a remix
__________________ Derek
"some people don't even think i'm a robot, they think im puerto rican and just really good at math."- Sad Bot
Good post by Alexander 46&2. I have always thought that deciding which version I liked better was impossible, but now I have realized that any appreciation I have of the Salival version is relative to how it was transformed from the album version.
If I were to hear the Salival version only, I would see it as an amazing song. But when hearing it after the album version, I can see it for what it really is - Pushit from a different angle, under a different light.
The salival version is incredible, but the album version will always be my favorite.
__________________ I can't live the button-down life like you. I want it all: the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles. Sure, I might offend a few of the bluenoses with my cocky stride and musky odors -- oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called "City Fathers" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about "What's to be done with this Andy DV?"
Although I can't really choose which I like more, I'd say I'm more lenient to the Salival version. Maynard's vocals are truly incredible. The whole song shows such awesome musical talent, from vocals to Aloke Dutta's beautiful Tabla's. It starts off so relaxed and so perfect...(sorry everyone for my bad explanations, this song is beyond description) and gradually builds, then calms down again, and then comes back again and finishes with such power and such intensity.
I really really like the part in the studio version where the music quiets down, and Maynard says "I am somewhere I don't wanna be, yeah.." It is so relaxing, and, well, so perfect.
All in all if I was forced to pick which I liked better, I would have to say the Salival version.
I have to say the Salival verison.It is a beautfiul version of a great song.I just lay back & close my eyes when I listen to it,let the sounds of the (bongos?) drums & Maynards voice take me away...
honestly, the only thing i really like better in the salival version is the guitar work. it's a much gentler, simple sound that pretty much makes that version what it is. but still, i prefer the aenima version. it's the original, what else can i say? (and did i mention that this is my favorite song... out of any song in the world?)
This song is my favorite for many reasons, tool and especially maynard were able to capture torturing emotion in music and being a musician that is incredible...i'll say this to anyone who isnt musically inclined that pushit is a blessing...for humanity
i agree with mister in the sense that the salival version of the song has a clearer and more direct impact. The intro is probably my favorite Tool song at the moment, but that changes with what mood I'm in. They are also different songs though. I think Aloke adds a totally new fell with his style of drumming. The only beef i have with the salival version is towards the end of Aloke's last drum solo, there is an electronic drum effect that seems to stick out against the rest of the song. Other than that, everything about the live version does more for me.
Like said before ... it all depends on what mood you're in.
I listen to the Salival version when I seek inspiration.
I listen to the Ænima version when I seek consolation.
It just dependson what you're looking for. I can't choose which one I like better because they're both my favorite song played in different ways. One just has a feeling that differs from the other but I still find my heart hitting the floor when Maynard sings "I am somewhere I don't want to be" and "I must persuade you another way." I tip my hat for both.
__________________ I must persuade you another way
i was surprised to see that so few people acknowledged Aloke Dutta and his Tabla drums in the Salival version. To me, those drums are what distinctly sets it apart from the original version. However, i do like both versions equally, because it's like comparing apples to oranges. Pushit Aenima and Pushit Salival are two completely different songs, set apart by many other things besides the Tabla's. Does anyone share my opinions about Aloke's drumming on the Salival Pushit? Those drums are an incredibly powerful element.
Its true that the tabla playing on the salival version sets it apart from the original, but for me as a guitar player, Adams new riff (actually part of the interlude on the original- an octave down) is absolutly beautiful. Mixed with Maynards vocals, I would be quite happy to say this is one of the greatest songs ever!
__________________ Over thinking, over analysing, separates toolgeeks from normal folks ;)
Re: Which do you like better..Aenima or Salival version?
Pushit is maybe my favourite Tool song...just maybe one of the versions is better, but that's just maybe...it really depends on the mood u r in, like now I just feel the need to listen to tool and to listen to something that will calm me and at the same time lift my spirits, so I play the salival version...amazing, the vocals, the guitar riffs, it's beyond description, just the way it makes you feel, but the aenima...well, it can give you the same feeling, but mixed with stronger ones...and that part...i feel alive when you touch me, i feel alive when you hold me down...and the end ...well, still i can't choose between them, but if i had to at the moment i would choose salival version
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Re: Which do you like better..Aenima or Salival version?
Quote:
Originally posted by DeleteYourself i definetly like the Salival version better. i'm a big fan of remixes, especially when it makes the song sound better and this is one of those cases i think. The Salival version is so much more calm and warm and sincere.
what does everyone else think?
can't forget in the beginning when he talks about letting go... being vulnerable... and how he'll meet us on the other side... brilliant
__________________ All this pain is an illusion...
---gonnawaititout---
Salival version. Aloke's Tabla is one of the biggest differences between the two I think, and I think its one of the main things that make it more preferable.
Definitely the Salival version... until I heard that one in concert, back in '98 (I was at one of the shows where they performed it just like it appears on Salival...) it was just another song...
Granted, it was good even on Ænima, but the Salival version made it (by far) into what I now call the best song Tool ever performed...
Since Salival's release I've hardly even bothered with the Ænima version...
Our opinions seem to differ quite alot on this topic.
Personally, I don't really go with that idea that the Salival version cannot be better as it is just a development from the Ænima version. Although Maynard says that we are now 'looking at it from a different angle and under a different light', he then goes on to say: '...so we can almost see it for the first time.' In this respect he seems to be saying that we should view this recording as an entirely new song... maybe forget there was another version.
I always thought that Pushit was the most difficult and impenetrable of the songs on Ænima. I had the impression when I heard the Salival version that maybe Tool thought that they took their initial ideas for this song in a direction which didn't do them justice. I kinda had this idea that with the Salival version, they were excorcising a ghost which didn't stop nagging them after they released Ænima. I don't mean it to sound that extreme, as they were obviously happy to a degree with the original song since it did get released.
My main reason for thinking all this was that Pushit seems to have a very sensitive air about itself, but the Ænima version's opening section doesn't seem to represent this very well. Hence, Maynard tells you to put yourself somewhere 'comfortable and vulnerable' because this song is meant to be a soft and intimate experience, as opposed to a blistering rock-out.
Having said that, has anyone heard an early version of this song? I downloaded an mpg of them performing it in Sacremento, '94 or '95 i think... anyways it was slightly faster and more upbeat than the Ænima version. I thought it worked better there than on the album, but my favourite version has to be the Salival one. I think that that was the original feel the envisaged for this piece, but it didn't come out like that first time.
Originally posted by Tywi Although Maynard says that we are now 'looking at it from a different angle and under a different light', he then goes on to say: '...so we can almost see it for the first time.' In this respect he seems to be saying that we should view this recording as an entirely new song... maybe forget there was another version.
It seems to me that his intentions were for us to forget there was an original version contradicts the new angle or different light statement. I think that by him saying 'so we can almost see it for the first time' would be him saying that we can just gather a whole new perspective on the song, feel a completely different emotion, but keep in mind that it still has the same fundamentals as the orirginal. In my opinion the Salival and Ænima versions are the same song. Just because you're seeing something with a different color doesn't mean that it changes the object you're looking at. This isn't to say that the Salival recording isn't great ... because I think it most certainly is.
__________________ I must persuade you another way
Re: Which do you like better..Aenima or Salival version?
I also like the salival version better. Like most of Salival it is great for meditating or for before you go to bed. and something about it feels more personal maybe even more honest. I like the lyric changes better, too. Specifically the change from "I'm alive when you're touching me, Alive when you're shoving me down." to "I feel alive when you touch me...I feel alive when you hold me......down" The end of that line feels dark and twisted.
Just because you're seeing something with a different color doesn't mean that it changes the object you're looking at.
Again, I personally think that one can't draw that comparison in relation to these two pieces. The color may be different, but the first movement is structurally different in my opinion too - there's more than just frequency changes in the opening of the Salival version.
The salival version of Pushit may well be an expansion of the AEnema version, but the AEnema did come first. If you've read Descartes you will probably remember his Cause & Effect example (not sure which book it's in). To use an example: An acorn contains all the elements of a tree, but the tree cannot contain more elements than were originally found in the acorn. What is more perfect cannot arise from what is less perfect. Therefore the Salival version can't be better than the AEnima version, because the AEnema version contained everything that the Salival version contained and more so. I don't think that it can be a matter of better, as I said earlier it depends on your mood, and as you said earlier we wouldn't be discussing the matter without bother versions. So lets hear it for AEnema when we feel like rocking, and Salival when we just want to relax.
i like this guys opinion...i'd say he's right...
__________________ Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.
i have to put my vote to the salival version. for me it just embodies the paridoxical nature of a loving and abusive relationship better.
"managed to push myself away...
and you as well, my dear" just sounds so tragically and desperately sad on the salival track, but over the course of the performance the voice strengthens, becomes more resolved, hesitates and then finally acts.
to me, the salival version is the more complete story.
I completely have to agree with eek on this one. The frailty and vulnerability of the song's being is much more musically exposed with the Salival version. But as with any live performance, there will be be a more engaging personal feeling to it, so i do believe the fact that it was recorded live had at least something to do with it. That's all folks.
The salival version of Pushit may well be an expansion of the AEnema version, but the AEnema did come first. If you've read Descartes you will probably remember his Cause & Effect example (not sure which book it's in). To use an example: An acorn contains all the elements of a tree, but the tree cannot contain more elements than were originally found in the acorn. What is more perfect cannot arise from what is less perfect. Therefore the Salival version can't be better than the AEnima version, because the AEnema version contained everything that the Salival version contained and more so. I don't think that it can be a matter of better, as I said earlier it depends on your mood, and as you said earlier we wouldn't be discussing the matter without bother versions. So lets hear it for AEnema when we feel like rocking, and Salival when we just want to relax.
ok... how to respond?
The aenima version did not contain everything the salival version contained musically. Lyrically it was virtually the same, but in terms of flow, feel, attitude, length, not to mention the intro, the Salival version is a totally different song. Made up of different components. We aren't talking about trees and elements here, and I think the Descartes analogy does not fit.
I am not saying that one song is more or less perfect than the other, and I would not try to do so. Merely that, as your own personal preferences go, you may enjoy one song more than it's sequel or prequel. In my case, I like the method of attack on the Salival version better, but they are both great.
I like the origional. Salival's version is great, but nothing will ever beat the studio version. Pushit is my personal favorite song, to me it's perfect and I didn't think changing it was necessary.
My vote definitely goes for the salival version. It's calmer, which i like, and mjk sings so well on it. Im not saying he doesnt sing well on the ænima version, but you get the point.
I think in the Salival version is a little calmer, and is clearer in most cases. But I think the Aenima version is better because the way he sings in the song is more powerfull to me. One of my favorite part of the Aenima version is:
"Pushing, shoving, scrambling, keep my feet flat on the ground"
I just love this part of the song, it's hard to explain, but i could listen to it thousands of times.
i have said it before but i will say it again, that Pushit is my favourite song... TOOL or otherwise.
I feel that i need to remain loyal to the Aenima version of Pushit. It is the song that moved me most when i herd aenima, ts that song that brings me to my knees, its the song that energises me like no other. And as the Salival version is simply that, a version, i pay respect to its precursor.
In no way am i denying the amazing power of the Salival version, i love it so very much...and i pay my respects to the amazing work of Aloke but i cant help but hold the pushit version up on its pedestal, untoucheable, untarnished.
Last edited by pushit_kirsty; 01-31-2003 at 11:35 PM..
To me, the first 4 minutes of both versions are rather interchangeable. Not the same but depending on my mood I can enjoy either version as much as the other. But by God it's the part... around about 11 mintues when Justin changes the bass line from the Aenima version. Don't have Salival here in front of me so I can't give the exact time code but it's those two lower notes in the bass line where he deviates from that persistent bass line he plays for the previous few minutes in the song.
From the moment I heard the way those two lower notes offset Adam's melody I HAD to hear those notes. Now everytime I listen to the Aenima version there's this hole gaping where those two bass notes are meant to be. The band came out on tour here back in 2001 and when I heard Aenima Pushit begin onstage I was praying for that revised bass line. Justin obliged and I was very happy.
Funny how such a small change can mean so much to me. Anyone feel kinda the same way?
