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Old 03-05-2003, 06:05 PM   #1
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the one mind theory

"And you will come to find, that we are all one mind"
I feel this is a rather interesting line in Reflection, and we all know what follows, but what is meant by this... Are we truely one mind? Is this possible, I'd say yeah, I like to think that all that we can imagine, fathom or dream of is possible as well as already in existance. A man by the name of Albert Einstein came up with this theory called relativeity. He was a pretty smart guy so I figured I'd give him a chance. Relativeity is more then just a simple concept to be explained here, but part of it pertains to the concept of a relative perspective. This one mind so divided into billions of portions could not possibly be on the same page at the same time for we are all looking and thinking from a different relative perspective. But is it not the same force that drives us all. By force I don't mean goal or worldly pleasure but I mean a life force, always changing, always...searching... Searching for our match, or group, or general purpose. The Idea that I'm thinking is difficult to say in words. It's difficult for anyone to say what they mean in words exactly...To portray an emotion is a truely amazing gift and I find that Music might be our best effort thus far...(telepathy being the next effort). That's why tool or any band for that matter...(but tool more less) can say and portray some wild shit that makes us all feel intense emotions, and intense clarity. The feeling that they lay out there is left to be interpreted by so many minds from so many perspectives that these ideas could not possibly match at an instent in time. I think the day is coming...the day were this mind could reunite, it could stop paging through every book in the library and finally settle on one page, one image, one particular portion of that image...one of the few situations I can consider that is caable of anything close to this on our relative plane is armagedon. One great big festering neon distraction, could it ultimately fulfill our search to be one, our constant struggle to understand, every mind, body, and emotion at a particular instant in time on the same page. I feel on this day the human race will cease to be and God will finally come into perspective. It will be us, you, I...Us...a single I.

Well sorry if that tangent was hard to understand and maybe never said what I wanted to in the first place but like I stated earlier, communication is the ultimate breakdown in the portreying of emotions. One day I'm impressed with the ability to convey thoughts through symbols, the next day I feel it is much less then adequite.

Please let me know what you're thinkin...all opinions welcome right?
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:38 AM   #2
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Or maybe not enough acid.
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Old 03-07-2003, 01:19 AM   #3
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re

yo guys thanks for the opinions...could there be too much acid for this subject mstter?
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Old 03-08-2003, 01:20 AM   #4
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When I hear that line, thought what you say is quite possibly, I find myself with a different theory. As it can be seen, Society is the closest thing to omnipotence within our reality. No one has control over society, yet we all have full control. It is a constant hypocricy and contradiction that forces us to be subdued by it. We were cloths, we (some, not including I) fear the opinions of others about ourselves. Society chooses what clothes to wear, what car to get, and even what condoms we use. We are all apart of the same combined conciousness of Society.

I'm sure I didn't explain 10% of what I think and feel towards that one line, and at times is frustrates me. I wish I could throughly explain exactly what it is I think at this moment, though it is 4:17am, and my mind is not as clear as it should.

Another idea that has crossed by analytical mind is the theory presented by Scott Adams in his book "God's Debris: A Thought Experiment." I'll attempt to make a short synopsis of the theory. As an omnipotent force, you have no emtions and you have no challenges (this should be obvious.) The one challenge an omnipotent being would be self destruction. The theory presented in the book is that God destroyed himself (The Big Bang, prehaps?) and we are God's debris. And, due to that, we are slowly rebuilding ourselves into God. We are constantly connecting each other. Human minds connecting to others as the nerve system in the body connects all parts of the body. First we created the highway, phone, etc to keep us all within more contact with other parts of humanity. But in the past 20 years, the internet has taken spawn. As Adam's explains, this need to connect everything is a natural drive, a natural drive to rebuild. If we all truely are part of one omnipotent being, we are but one mind, one conciousness.

I do not believe in Adam's theory, for I see flaws, but it is very intresting and rather new nonetheless.
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Old 03-13-2003, 08:42 AM   #5
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the only thing that really put the all is one concept into perspective for me was Micheal Talbot's the Holographic Universe. highly recommeded.
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Old 03-13-2003, 11:58 AM   #6
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Philosophically/Realistically, we can't be all one mind.

Property of Identity -
Everything that is true of X is true of Y if and only if X is identical to Y. If something is true of X that is not true of Y, then X and Y are not identical.

We cant all have the same mind because our minds have certain properies unique to us. My mind is unique to me, my thoughts are private and inaccessible by anyone else. Its impossible for everyone to share a mind/soul.
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Old 03-13-2003, 10:47 PM   #7
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Your quick to say that because your used to the reality pressed upon you as you grew up. Attempt to look past the literal meaning. Reread my post. Well the first part atleast, about society.
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Old 03-13-2003, 11:40 PM   #8
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In some kind of psychedelic experience

Quote:
Originally posted by Dissonance
My mind is unique to me, my thoughts are private and inaccessible by anyone else. Its impossible for everyone to share a mind/soul.
you are right in that you are unique 'cause there is no one else like you. you say it is impossible for everyone to share a mind/soul probably because logically,from your frame of reference, it doesn't make sense?...that's kewl brother but i took the word impossible out of my vocabulary 'cause i really don't know. i like flowers cause they just are and don't have any sense of rationality but then again, how can i say that...im not a flower...dammit! u know what...the daisies are conspiring to take over the world and when that happens, it happens...do you happen?

man that was just garbage lol but in conclusion...
for a moment to bloom, take some mushroom
for a moment of clarity, have some LSD
for a moment without sin, have some mescalin

heheh +=)
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Old 03-14-2003, 01:17 PM   #9
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time differential

we are all one mind meaning not neccessarily that we all share the same thought at the same time but that we are all driven by the same basic urges...I say all things are realative once again and I say that from each relative perspective a different portion of the common thought can be witnessed, by you and you alone...while the force...the drive that allows us to have such opinions about things is driven by our alikeness...We just all experience things on different planes at different times...you could say that all of a certain type of attom have the same mind...the same drive...toward a certain attractive experience although depending on their place in position and time, the same results could not occur simultaneously....it is our job as a human race to attempt to make this connection I feel...we're working on it but the breakdown in communication may slow us drastically...let's bring the pieces back together and rediscover communication...
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:22 AM   #10
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And adding onto the last 2 well done posts...

Things are not always so literal. In the reality you have been pressed to see, you believe that this one mind idea is simply physical impossible. But we're not dealing with literal translation of the poetry. Society IS the collective mind of mankind.


seraph: Here's something intresting for you :) "If anything is possible, than impossibility is reachable"
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Old 03-27-2003, 08:23 PM   #11
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Well, i always believed that we all are of one conscience, and that we are, in a sense, god. Like, take our intuition and the random psychic occurence here and there, you somehow tapped into parts of your brain previously un-explored. Life is what you make of it actually, like, I continually try to solve this life, and yet everything in life is a question. So maybe, if life a question because I question all? The answer is yes, and naturally one who questions wants answers, and this whole write is my answer to life. But to be deeper on this, since I solved life supposedly, it gives me a great high and a sense of singleness and god-likeness. Maybe I TRULY am just a seeker for power or something along those lines. Maybe life is all a question so I can answer, just to give me this high. Now, I am going to stop myself before I go to far with this “life is x because I x etc”.

This philosophy is sort of my hobby actually. And I was quite suprised to see the lyrics of this song. I have a whole paper on this topic. So, I hope this conversation goes on.
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Old 03-28-2003, 12:44 PM   #12
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We are all one mind

If society is the collective mind of humankind, then what say you to dissident groups within a society? There seems to be a plurality of minds to me.

A friend of mine has argued with me about this. He thinks all life is part of one consciousness, which manifests itself in each individual in a personalized form. That is an interesting concept, but I agree with the basic theory of identity posted above, so I don't see how there is evidence to support this conjecture. It seems to me we all have our own separate consciousness — so if you were to die, it would not simply be the loss of one piece of a larger consciousness, but the loss of a special consciousness — the loss of your unique, irreplacable perspective. Anyone care to elaborate for or against either side of the debate?
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Old 04-03-2003, 10:37 PM   #13
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When I think of all of us as being one consciousness, I think of there being some higher form of thought. That there is a higher plane that, when we've been through the stage of humanity, our mind(spirit?) escapes to it and becomes one with..it. It being this higher form, be it a collective of mind or spirit or whatever else. But meditation and/or drugs bring people closer to it, and are shown glimpses, etc..
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:51 PM   #14
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elementary

while i don't totally agree with the theory that we are all, in essence, god, I find it intriguing(sp?) that the most elementary things such as atoms, to the most incomprehensible things like the universe and god, mimic each other. I mean the similarity between the electrons and neutrons circling the atom and the planets circling our own sun is striking to me. Is it possible that we, like the atom to the bacteria in our own body, are in fact ignorantly part of a greater intelligence (god him/herself?)

I dunno you tell me.

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Old 04-18-2003, 09:26 AM   #15
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Some of you are thinking in too lateral a way. We are a fragmented consciousness because we are contained inside our bodies, I think. Most differences between people are the result of circumstance, our body affects our fragment of being.

This proves there is never enough acid to alter our great, singular consciousness.
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Old 04-26-2003, 05:20 PM   #16
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to say that all minds are one means what? connected- yes. one, no. think of an infinite puzzle(like the ones you used to get for christmas, only bigger)-

you can see the whole picture or you can look at the individual pieces, but don't call the puzzle pieces all one puzzle.

and my friend and i have been doing psychic experiments and have found that each person is fundamentally different.

think of the planets and astrology. how did jupiter come to give off its astrological influence? because it's jupiter and it's big. - mars is not the same as jupiter just because it grew up in the wealthy part of our solar system- it's because.. for some reason.. mars is just different.

mars is made up of the same elements as jupiter, just as we are made up of the same stuff- through and through.... it's not the individual parts.. it's a concept called "gestalt" or "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"

think of a musical chord. you have each individual note, but who you are is all of the chords at once. - you can't break you down into parts because you are not the part that CAN BE broken down.

and all this without acid.
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Old 04-28-2003, 03:06 PM   #17
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we all start out with the same mind, in our early ages, is just that we all have our own viewpoint from it all, thats why everyone is diffrent. Our body is nothing just a vessel, to carry on our conciouness (soul).
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:18 PM   #18
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we have have an ego
egos biggest fear is death.
i spos thats how we are all one mind coz we all funtion on same basic ideas as some one said befor.
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Old 04-30-2003, 01:56 PM   #19
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One mind, one body, one perpetuating vessel

We are all one mind because and only because we are interdependent.

Think of one singular red blood cell, it has a job to do it has many associates to work with, if one or a million of his fellow workers atrophy or burst or shrink the red blood cells that remain find themselves a more arduous task to complete.

So the coming together of humanity is inevitable, since I believe we have never been apart, but just like the dying or dead red blood cells when the weak parish it becomes more difficult for the living and thriving and strong to work efficiently.

Strain on one human being creates strain on another. This might be difficult to understand but the strain can be positive or negative to a single being(red blood cell), but overall as an interdependent body, death and weakening affect all in small or great strides.
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Old 05-05-2003, 12:46 PM   #20
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Re: elementary

Quote:
Originally posted by Ejecta48
while i don't totally agree with the theory that we are all, in essence, god, I find it intriguing(sp?) that the most elementary things such as atoms, to the most incomprehensible things like the universe and god, mimic each other. I mean the similarity between the electrons and neutrons circling the atom and the planets circling our own sun is striking to me. Is it possible that we, like the atom to the bacteria in our own body, are in fact ignorantly part of a greater intelligence (god him/herself?)

I dunno you tell me.
You answered your own question and invalidated your own doubt. We are all part of that greater force we call God. We have been ignorant, or asleep, for quite some time. One theory posed is that the Earth has a small elliptical axis movement that takes, like 10's of thousands of years to complete one cycle. Similar to day and night, this shift wakes us up when it is time to come out of the dark side of the shift, which is where we are now. Bob Frissell's book Nothing in this Book is True... explains it much better than I can.
There is discussion here of our individual selves (egos) and the greater consciousness (part of the collective). I would be careful saying that your thoughts and actions are only known to you. By astrally projecting, some people can travel anywhere instantly, and observe this dimension without being seen from the overtone directly above ours. What I mean by overtone is this. Most people awakening are coming to terms with raising their frequency of their energy, whether they call it that, or realize it, or not. By raising our frequency we can shift dimensions. This is the purpose of the merkaba, if I am not mistaken. So I would not be so sure that your thoughts and ac tions are yours alone. There is also the question of how can these two things exist simultaneously, the ego and greater consciousness? When we entered this stage of evolution, we blacked out most of our link to nature, most of our link to God. There are many reasons for this, all debatable and all probably true to some degree. To survive, we need to think, so we created our egos. It has been so long since we blacked out that we have almost no recollection of the greater consciousness. However, when we do find it, it is all the more amazing. We are individuals, sure, but like cells working for the body. A cell can have its own direction, its own purpose, but the purpose it serves is for the greater purpose, even though the cell may not realize it. The cell may just think it is helping the lung ditribute oxygen, or helping the heart pump blood, or helping a cut heal. Imagine us as one of these specialized cells. When people try to tell us we provide direction and survival to the body, we disagree, because all we can see is what we do in our specialized environment. You call me a liar, you are part of no greater body, you work for yourself, and how in the hell could I draw a parallel between heiping oxygen get to the bloodstream with helping a greater body run faster? We have both egos and the collective. There is a balance, like with everything else on this plane.
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Old 05-07-2003, 11:20 AM   #21
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Re: We are all one mind

Quote:
Originally posted by Metalanarchist
It seems to me we all have our own separate consciousness — so if you were to die, it would not simply be the loss of one piece of a larger consciousness, but the loss of a special consciousness — the loss of your unique, irreplacable perspective. Anyone care to elaborate for or against either side of the debate?
I have a bad tendency to stradle the fence so I wouldn't be any help in contributing for or against such a proposed debate. So, for the time being, I'll just occupy a few one's and zero's on some hard drive. Even though those one's and zeroes aren't really 'me' and my 'consciousness' my ramblings will remain at least until that part of the hard drive is erased.

Of course, there's more of a chance that someone will come along and read this post before such an event occurs. At that point, at that crossroad, this inane ramble of mine and the point(less) thoughts will be imparted to many other people out there. Those binaries digits will stir some chemical reaction in some biological brainpan somewhere and spur an inkling of a thought and perhaps that thought will lead to another thought related or unrelated to the 'one mind' concept.

Perhaps the person that reads this post will take that related/unrelated thought and produce some sort of epiphany...perhaps they will simply chew on the inner lining of their cheek and tongue out some tucked away morsel held dearly by a molar.

Maybe that person will get up from their computer and talk to someone. Maybe kiss their kid...maybe kill a kid...

In any event this one post will directly or indirectly lead to another moment in the reader's life and so on until tomorrow and the days after.

Let's say after this post my physical body dies. My special consciousness and the 31 years of it's development or degradation is gone. The physical form that shit and pissed and ate and rambled could no longer maintain the functions necessary to keep the grey matter moist and sparking.

Those who've read this post now carry with them some form, some feeling, some reaction to the content. It is now perpetuated through your lives and in turn through the lives of others that you come into contact with. It might not be what I intended...completely misconstrued...but it perpetuates and has been perpetuated by that which came before us.

This motion...this perpetuation...as a whole, I would consider 'one mind'. Even if that one 'special consciousness' is lost, it undoubtebly imparts some impression, some refelection, of its existence to those around it. In a sense, it isn't completely lost, it lives on.

Couldn't we all say that our upbringings and our pasts have molded us, our thoughts and beliefs, into what they are today? Our surroundings and the people that we associated with in our past, in some way, has helped us to develop ourselves. In turn, whether we know it or not, we perform this same function for those around us. The resulting 'memory, perhaps, is our one mind consciousness. It has always been there but as a whole, goes unnoticed. We spend too much time enmeshed in it...acting...reacting...to step back and look at it as a whole.

Toussling the myopic battles of our egos, living that friction of 'life', is rather engrossing. Sometimes it's refreshing to know that someone in all that cacophony will look up from their dreary tug-of-war to see where they...where we...are going in this whole mess. Maybe to have them say, "Hey...I think we're all about to run off the edge of a clif........"

-Tant
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Old 05-07-2003, 11:38 AM   #22
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I don't feel like anyone really answered well my question posted above in this thread... there were some attempts but I don't feel like the call was answered. I'll leave it at that.

herarety: You think the all one mind state exists on a higher plane which perhaps is accessible through drugs. I think this is fantasy. If YOU take drugs, they produce biochemical changes in YOUR brain. If another does the same, have you both suddenly forged for a moment onto a higher plane... or are you simply both on drugs, sharing a similar high that permits the illusion of sharing one mind?

Ejecta48: I also find the similarities between electrons orbiting atoms and planets orbiting the sun interesting. But what have they to do with a supposed one consciousness? Besides, they are superficial similarities. Do planets jump out of their orbits or even leave their solar systems altogether, as electrons do?

Yiakovos, you sort of restated one of my points and thanks for that, but maybe didn't really add anything to the discussion.

moonburn, it seems to me you are disputing what Maynard seems to be saying in the song about us being all one mind... I agree that a person's uniqueness will not allow him or her to be broken down in any way that would retain that person's identity.

Replaced zuzu: your idea is a romantic one, that we all start out with the same mind. It's not really supportable. I can only agree that yes, our bodies do irrevocably color our consciousness.

eslupminoyler: Humans are NOT "just like the dying or dead red blood cells"! When 30 percent of Europe died during the Black Plague, did all of humanity perish? You better believe one human body would die if it lost 30 percent of it's red blood cells or one major organ failed... but other humans are separate! And so is our consciousness.

paraflux: I think you are inhabiting some kind of alternate reality. I wish you would check back in to the planet upon which the rest of us reside.
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Old 05-07-2003, 11:55 AM   #23
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Just read your post, Tant, and it is the most relevant yet. That is an intriguing twist on it... but I think the key to your idea is that "In a sense, it (one inidividual consciousness) isn't completely lost, it lives on" through affecting others. Well, if that is the one mind that we all are, I'd say it's not that inspiring of a concept... not like the grandiose sweeping one mind I feel Maynard's lyrics suggest in the song.

I mean, sure, there is a ripple effect of others upon my own consciousness, to a greater or lesser degree depending on their closeness to me. But the further you go, the less of an effect... in any way that we can know, anyway. Theoretically, the billions who preceeded you and I still touch upon us somehow through a collective unconscious... is that the one mind, Jung's archetypes and all that? I am willing to allow for that, but note that it is quite a different conception of "all one mind" than some here have suggested, as all being a part of "God" or whatever.

Not to mention that, yes indeed, people's impressions of you may be distorted, and your rich individual conscious mind IS lost. I must go for now... thanks for moving this forward, though.
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Old 05-07-2003, 12:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Metalanarchist

paraflux: I think you are inhabiting some kind of alternate reality. I wish you would check back in to the planet upon which the rest of us reside.
I sure do. The goal is to leave this plane, this mundane reality people try to force on me and everyone else. I alone am responsible for my reality, no one else is. Realities are empty canvases we paint every day. Judge away, it doesnt get to me. And contrary to whatever you think, I have plenty of company, the "rest" of you can do what you like. It can end no other way.

Bottom line is you will know what is meant by the one mind when you see/feel it for yourself. Trying to describe it in english will never do it justice.

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Old 05-07-2003, 01:33 PM   #25
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Metalanarchist
eslupminoyler: Humans are NOT "just like the dying or dead red blood cells"! When 30 percent of Europe died during the Black Plague, did all of humanity perish? You better believe one human body would die if it lost 30 percent of it's red blood cells or one major organ failed... but other humans are separate! And so is our consciousness.

metalanarchist,
human beings can be compared to quite alot in this age, also find one thing we are exactly symmetrical to.
To try and disprove something simply interchangable in functional purpose is a pity and impossible to complete.

To say for a fact that humans are all separate in consciousness because you have yet to feel that which makes us one is the classic definition of ignorance.

To experience any of the chakras is to know
I doubt you even see the REFLECTION
since your eyes are most definetely closed
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Old 05-08-2003, 07:42 AM   #26
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paraflux: "I would be careful saying that your thoughts and actions are only known to you. By astrally projecting, some people can travel anywhere instantly, and observe this dimension without being seen from the overtone directly above ours. What I mean by overtone is this. Most people awakening are coming to terms with raising their frequency of their energy, whether they call it that, or realize it, or not. By raising our frequency we can shift dimensions… (etc.)"

Talk of astral projection, different dimensions, "overtone" and such as if they are actual fact that any can experience —_apparently only by going through the same process of brainwashing that led you to believe in them —_is simply not helpful to this discussion! "The goal is to leave this plane, this mundane reality people try to force on me and everyone else." Really? Who told you so? How do you know there are other planes? Maybe faith enters this somewhere? I think so. Please separate faith-based "knowledge" from reason-based knowledge.

Anyway, MY goal is not to "leave this plane." My goal is to make life for myself and other people as good as possible on THIS plane. Does that make me unenlightened by your standards? By mine, I feel it's sad you seem to have given up on the reality of the one life you were given to live and invented another reality to inhabit. It's like people who can't stop reading fantasy novels, in my opinion. There's a lot of people in this world who are in all kinds of desperate pain and unjust situations —_but you're off traveling the astral planes. Hidey-ho!

eslupminoyler: "To say for a fact that humans are all separate in consciousness because you have yet to feel that which makes us one is the classic definition of ignorance."

Certainly not! You just used a bad metaphor to try to assert your point of view, and I deconstructed it. The burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate how there IS one mind — not on me to disprove it.

If I am "ignorant" of this one mind, all I have been asking for all along is some rational, COGENT presentation of what that means, and you two have simply failed to provide it. You buy into your theories (developed on your own or through spiritual gurus), and have no idea that other consciousnesses outside your own find them perplexing!

You two can believe whatever you want. Billions on the planet have all sorts of absurd beliefs. People were certain the earth was flat and the center of the universe, too. Just because you "feel" something may make it "real" to you, but I certainly don't have to accept it as true. And that does NOT make me ignorant. What is the nature of reality — what you and other "astral travelers" say it is, for instance, or what can be determined by any consciousness, including non-astral travelers like me, through a common process of experience that is somewhat more objective?

Like I said, I am willing to entertain any idea, any belief — if some proof is offered, not just spouting off.
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Old 05-08-2003, 08:57 AM   #27
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I dont have anything to prove to anyone. All the proof I need is contained in my personal experiences. I know from experience that this is not the only plane of existence, not because I have been brainwashed by anything. I have no faith. Faith is the hope of things unseen, and once you have seen those things you no longer need faith. You have replaced it with direct knowledge. Anyone CAN experience anything if they are open to it. You, apparently, are not, and it is not my place to say that you should be. So fine, if my contributions are not helpful in this discussion, I will leave it alone. I just dont like it when people place limits on themselves. We, as a collective, have no boundaries. The goal to reach higher planes is not abstract reasoning. It is progression. If you are not interested in progression, I must ask why you like Tool, not to judge you as you have done me, but to file it away under "reasons people listen to Tool." Do you read anything that doesnt offer "absolute proof" even though there is no such thing? Bob Frissell? Aldous Huxley? Catch you on the next overtone...

Hidey-ho.
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Old 05-08-2003, 09:57 AM   #28
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Re: We are all one mind

Quote:
Originally posted by Metalanarchist
If society is the collective mind of humankind, then what say you to dissident groups within a society? There seems to be a plurality of minds to me.
As much as I'd like to say that 'we are all one mind' there's no way that I could offer up any proof. After all, this is just speculation, right? Even 'Reverend Maynard' isn't so bullet-proof that he could back up the claim. Really, the term in words is a vehicle to convey an idea...and one worth talking about, obviously.

One point of attack that I've approached the idea (with no real results and coming out just as confused as I went in) was to consider that perhaps the one constant of reality is energy. Energy in it's purest form...perhaps light...perhaps something else. Energy at an accelerated, heightened speed and energy slowed down. Then there's all that energy in-between. Everything is in transition...everything is in motion.

The keyboard that you type on...that is energy, no? Is it energy in a slowed down form? If we dumped gas onto it and ignited it don't we release that energy (and destroy your typing implement)?

When we step outside and take a deep breath of air. Isn't that energy? It certainly aids in propelling us forward and keeping the blood moving.

So as people...as conscious beings...or what have you, we are energy in a transitional state. Our individual consciousness is held by this biological bag of bone, guts, and water; from birth till death of this physical form. We all have needs to consume energy in order to maintain our physical being.

Still following? Feel like you're being led into a shaggy dog story?

Some reference was made by another poster in the thread to 'frequencies'. I'd venture that we all, in order to communicate, operate on some general wavelength...some point in this energy ocean of motion where our biological and individual signals are attuned to some with a finer degree...others with a wide variance. Perhaps this 'tuning' is set by those things greater than us...perhaps by the rotation of the planet...the orbit of our moon around this planet...our orbit around Sol and so on in relation to every other body within the solar system.

So entertaining the idea that our biological system of energy as individuals and as a living whole is governed in part by our planet, etc. (as below, so above...refer to the link provided)

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/emerald.html

We perhaps share some commonality within this energy system. Energy simply doesn't disappear, it transitions into something else..it goes somewhere else.

When one speaks of the 'collective mind' and 'dissident groups' of society I don't disagree with the concept that there seems to be more than one mind at work. I do ask, though, that for all you thinkers and typers out there, all you tool heads and hand-jobbers, don't you find conflict within your own mind when making decisions? Do you look at the pile of filth and flies that is your wardrobe and say, "Should I wear the grease stained blue-jeans? Naw, maybe the brown corduroy carpenter pants..."

I'd find it hard to believe that any one of us thinks with sure pure thought that we don't battle ourselves..much like society and it's conglomeration of dissident factions...

Using countries and nationalism as an example (I give poor examples so excuse me)...me being from the US, we have our regions, much like any other country. Each region to some degree carries pride in their identity. Those from Alaska refer to the rest of the US as the 'lower 48ths'...sometimes with a bit of haughtiness. Each region or nation seems to have their preferred opinions. None of them necessarily being 'right' or 'wrong'. Regardless, those opinions exist and, over time, may change. I'm sure you get the idea.

Being 'one mind', to me, doesn't necessarily mean that everything is in complete harmonious agreement. During the uproar of recent world events, individual opinions and feelings were felt on combined level: marching on the streets and amplified by the media. Regardless of whether you were for or against the happenings, your feelings coincided to some degree and with some variance with like minds (yes, even you apathetic ones).

The struggle of humanity, as is our internal struggles (mental, relational, spiritual...whatever) is to come to agreement with itself as a whole, to fine-tune the frequency into a tight hum, concentrated and driven into the future and whatever it might hold. As we're all aware, this struggle doesn't often meet with success in the smaller cycles. Sometimes the cancer or AIDS patient succumbs to their disease and dies regardless of every effort to heal. Sometimes the schizophrenic gives way to the voices and in despair overdoses on prescription pills.

When Metalanarchist states to paraflux...
Quote:
Anyway, MY goal is not to "leave this plane." My goal is to make life for myself and other people as good as possible on THIS plane."
I find myself nodding in agreement. Some part of me is convinced that in order for humanity to progress we must first attend to what we have on our plates...we must help each other to better themselves, to bring them up...perhaps you could say to help them 'tune-in' to that driving frequency. Once we as a whole can do this, then maybe we can progress to the next plane...to that 46&2...to Christ consciousness or whatever the heck it is that makes your azz squirm in your chair and curl your toes.

That "one-mind" is your mind, each and every individual's mind. When we set forth with the attitude to help ourselves (and not have it handed to you) and to help others to learn how to help themselves, we are quieting the disharmonic voices in our own minds, we are bringing it back to that 'still-point'.

Again, I have no proof that there is 'all one mind' but I have some strong gut feelings, some imparted by drugs, some by experience, some through irrationality, that there might be.

Much like it's not Tool's job to set down irrefutable proof of what they convey (to each and every fan that might expect it), no one else can do the same for the whole. Proof only has meaning to yourself.

Quote:
And you will come to find...
It's all a journey...some of us come to familiar crossroads before others do, perhaps some have forgotten that they've already been there. That doesn't make us any better or worse than the next person treading the path.

Thanks for reading all that...no shaggy dog...nothing to see here...move along...move along....

-Tant
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Old 05-08-2003, 10:21 AM   #29
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Re: Re: We are all one mind

Quote:
Originally posted by Tantobourne


One point of attack that I've approached the idea (with no real results and coming out just as confused as I went in) was to consider that perhaps the one constant of reality is energy. Energy in it's purest form...perhaps light...perhaps something else. Energy at an accelerated, heightened speed and energy slowed down. Then there's all that energy in-between. Everything is in transition...everything is in motion.

Much like it's not Tool's job to set down irrefutable proof of what they convey (to each and every fan that might expect it), no one else can do the same for the whole. Proof only has meaning to yourself.
Everything is energy. I agree wholeheartedly. This is what I call God, this energy running through all things. And like I did say, proof isnt necessary beyonf personal experience. You can think that we need to fix things here on this plane to move on, and thats fine and maybe even honorable, but I will still disagree there. I will not stop helping people here on Earth, that is far from my intention. But my focus is on what lies ahead, not what lies around me in ruins now. Everything is being destroyed, everything no longer makes sense. I am not in fantasy-land, I am still here, but my goal is to escape "Hell" and enter "Heaven."
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Old 05-08-2003, 10:54 AM   #30
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We are all one mind

the one mind theory 1:57PM
28/413

Quote:
Originally posted by paraflux
You can think that we need to fix things here on this plane to move on, and thats fine and maybe even honorable, but I will still disagree there.
To 'fix things here' in my pursuit doesn't put first and foremost 'humanity'. I am no 'Jesus Christ' as touted by the mainstream followers. Meaning that any 'crusade' to change is only within myself.

It's a somewhat frustrating concept to hold onto when you've sired children into this world. Helping others is secondary, and hopefully, a by-product of me helping myself, first and foremost.

Using 'tool' as the concept, we must hone ourselves and our abilities before we can be effective to others. Referencing Buddhism's ten-fold path, the one thing that I try to strive for is to 'live what you believe'. In doing so, you live by your example. As a parent, I can only hope that this example is adequate enough that my child can constructively build from it.

Quote:
Everything is being destroyed, everything no longer makes sense.
Really, did it ever? Is it the world around you that's being destroyed and not making sense or is it your perception of the world? It's a question that I ask myself at times...me with my tendency to want to 'doom-say' whenever something transpires out there in the big, big world.

I believe that Nature can take care of herself. There's nothing we, as humanity, can do, that the greater cycle of things cannot overcome and restore back to equillibrium.

Quote:
But my focus is on what lies ahead, not what lies around me in ruins now
I've felt that there's some sense in the old adage that "one must know where they came from in order to know where they are going". We all reflect on moments in our past...on how we might have done them differently. Perhaps we tell ourselves that we "won't make that mistake, again." If we each are not willing to reflect on what has passed how will we know what decisions to make or not make as we move forward?

Quote:
I am not in fantasy-land, I am still here, but my goal is to escape "Hell" and enter "Heaven."
We are all in a fantasy-land, come on, let's not try and deny it. Each and every one of us is encapsulated in our own thoughts and opinions. What is 'reality' to one person sure as heck isn't to another. Let's take relationships for example...no...let's not...

As far as escaping hell and entering heaven...well, I think you're in the middle of it...this is hell and this is heaven. Make of it what you will with the time you've got. If we feel the need to gravitate towards one extreme or the other, that is a choice that we've always had. Those chains that bind us and hold us back are merely are of our own construct.

I for one want to enter "Heaven" but doing it without bringing the ones I love with me would sure make it an empty and lonely place, otherwise. Honorable? Sure, I suppose you could say that. There's no joy in exhulting in attainment unless there are others to share it with. Otherwise I'd imagine it's like screaming into a big black void where nothing returns, somewhat bittersweet. It's a taste I've experienced before.

Thanks for the conversation....all this outlet is cathartic for me. Try talking to a 6 year old kid about this stuff and imagine the confused look on their face when you finally take a breath = )

-Tant

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Old 05-08-2003, 11:12 AM   #31
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I have a 6 year old. I know. :)

Its not really doom-saying. I am not afraid of what is happening. Yes, things have been falling apart for years. Do we become immune to it? Does it affect us any less? Does it affect our future any less? I am with you on your helping yourself first and others as a by-product. The crusade does indeed take place internally at first.

Of course we learn from our past. But thats not where my focus is. I am aware that I am only what I have been, where I come from. But I cant dwell on that constantly. I have to take the knowledge and experience and look ahead to see what I can do with what I have got.

The thing about entering Heaven without the ones you love here is indeed a difficult conversation. "As I rip your fucking throat away, there can be no other way" and "choke this infant here before me" from Pushit. Is the speaker going to choke an infant? Not really, but metaphorically, if the speaker has to push on to survive, leaving the unlearned behind, then so be it. It can be no other way. Infants in this case can be the unlearned, the lightless.
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Old 05-08-2003, 10:42 PM   #32
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continuation with meta

I could say you are ignorant because you haven't experienced the thing that makes me KNOW. You could say the same to me since I'm sure there are many things you most likely have experienced that I doubt.
but if the burden is on me to demonstrate my view of one mind, and not your job to disprove it, then your trite attempt to disprove it was obviously a vain contradiction of your new statement

The burden of proof is on YOU to demonstrate how there IS one mind — not on me to disprove it.
-metalanarchist

I'd imagine you are seeing a different reflection than I am. Perhaps what we believe to be true becomes true in its consequense.
Perhaps the truth is only a manifestation of our own minds believing blindly on a mere impulse.
Perhaps these broad and endless possibilities take us deeper into negativity veiling the purpose of discussion with over-lapping contradictions
Maybe the sandman misses my presense
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Old 05-09-2003, 07:20 AM   #33
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eslup (Can I call you eslup? haha, I like that cause it's backwards for pulse... intentionally so?): Lots of rhetoric, but I am still left wondering, truly wanting to know, what it is you have experienced that makes you KNOW we are all one mind! I've looked over all your previous threads, and I've seen some metaphors and some assertions, but correct me if I'm wrong, you still haven't shared with us your core experience. How can you blame me for being skeptical?

paraflux: harsh view there about leaving the unlearned behind. Certainly not how the Mahayana Buddhists perceive things... in their system, no one achieves nirvana until all do. That's why there are some bodhisatvas left behind like Kwan Yin (goddess of compassion) to point the way. Of course, the Theravada Buddhists do subscribe to the idea of individual nirvana... and the Christians and Muslims have heaven and paradise awaiting the just recipients among them... I don't like any of it, but that's just cynical me. :-)

Tant, I still find your articulations the most concise, sharp and penetrating of all, based on your latest posts. "As much as I'd like to say that 'we are all one mind' there's no way that I could offer up any proof. After all, this is just speculation, right? Even 'Reverend Maynard' isn't so bullet-proof that he could back up the claim. Really, the term in words is a vehicle to convey an idea...and one worth talking about, obviously." Basically nails it on the head.

And I totally can go with the idea of beings as converted energy, reverting to energy after death. It is rooted in physics, after all. But I am not willing to speculate that any post-life energy form we take (individually, if that can even still apply, and collectively) will consist of a "one mind" state. I am willing to speculate about it, but not stake my own personal belief system on it. Energy itself is not conscious, as far as we know. This is my understanding of what paraflux and eslup are discussing, I think, about the next plane of existence and such. Nor do these ideas apply to this life now, as far as I can see. But I'm just checking in with my latest humble concerns on the subject. Thanks.
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Old 05-09-2003, 01:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Metalanarchist
But I am not willing to speculate that any post-life energy form we take (individually, if that can even still apply, and collectively) will consist of a "one mind" state.
Please, let's speculate. That's why we're all here and slapping the keys to put thoughts to bits. I'm willing to concede that there is no right or wrong answers. With what I've read so far from these posts, even if I don't whole heartedly agree, I at least have something to chew on for the time being = ) Stimulating our thinking by appealing or unappealing ideas is bound to give us something, if not nothing. We have nothing to lose.

Quote:
I am willing to speculate about it, but not stake my own personal belief system on it.
I wouldn't stake my own personal belief system on any of this, either. I change my mind way too much and have been proven wrong way too much to think that I'd set any of my ramblings in stone.

Quote:
Energy itself is not conscious, as far as we know. This is my understanding of what paraflux and eslup are discussing, I think, about the next plane of existence and such.
No, I don't believe that energy in and of itself is 'conscious'. I think this is where I tend to hit that brick wall. I can start out with the most far flung ideas and generalities but every time that I try to break it down to any basic component it all unravels and I'm left holding air. To some degree, I'm almost thinking that this is the way it's supposed to be. There are no answers that can encompasses the questions we ask. If there was, in my own illogical way, I think we would, or at least I would, simply cease to exist...because in knowing the answer and in knowing that there is some 'end' to this all, the meaning of existence, the journey we take perhaps loses its urgency and with no adversity to battle, there is nothing left to do. I'm not 100% on that statement, it's just a feeling I've been toying with, recently.

Boy, the measures we take to convince ourselves that life must go on....

One prevalent concept in Keenan's lyrics that I relate to is that of duality. Of one-sidedness and realizing that there seems to be some sort of imbalance. the imagery this provokes is found in so much of our recorded history and is addressed and affects each and every conscious individual. The sun...the moon...man...woman..love...hate...spin the wheel and pick your duality...

After realizing that such a duality might exist in our lives and is a focal point for our suggested 'imbalance' The next step, it would seem, would be to reconcile this. To bring the two back together. In our every day lives we do this... we make concessions and diplomacy to bring about an amicable conclusion. This does not mean that the concessions are 50/50. Depending on who you are and how you approach life, this could very easily be 20/80 or whatever.

My mention of 'as below, so above' earlier, by my interpretation, is that if we are able to study ourselves and know ourselves and why we do what we do, than this understanding of our functionality also applies to the world outside of our perception or perhaps that world past our physical form. The concept also works vice versa. If we can look at the world 'out there' and understand the cycles of the seasons, life and death, how animals interact in the pecking order, etc... than we could apply that towards our own mental faculties and perceptions.

Pushit and Schism, in terms of relationships, takes the discordant concept of duality (again, the way I interpret these songs) of separate entities and addresses the constant battles we have of trying to understand each other...of learning not to push each other away but to put aside our fears and 'baggage' in order to come together...to bring that duality back into a unified 'one'. It's a tug of war that we've all felt and the almighty ego seems to always be right there in the middle.

In an attempt to try and bring all this rambling back to the point of 'one mind' I'm pointing out the dualities and the attempt to bring them together. Forgive me as I go off on another hair-brained tangent...

I'll guess that we've all probably entertained the concept of a black hole and the term 'event horizon'...that point on the edge of the black hole where everything meets and clashes. Or perhaps take the idea of a beach where the tide pushes the waves inwards and then recedes...that point where the incoming waves meet the receding waves...that point of chaos where it becomes hard to define what's coming and what's going....

Take that concept and apply it to my original babble about everything being energy and our group consciousness being defined by a common wavelength where individual consciousness is defined with some variance towards some "median".

Could it be that this 'one mind' is what results after the two extremes are marshaled back into the 'one'. Or, using the beach as an example, could that 'one mind' be the ocean itself after the waves have receded? Could our 'moment' in life be just that 'event horizon'...that maelstrom and confusion?

Stretching the implausibility (I know, I know, even I'm rolling my eyes at this point) can we suggest that the 'one mind' is this ocean of energy contained by our planet? Taking that other old adage of "a drop of water into the ocean and the ocean into a drop of water" perhaps we can say that this 'ocean' of energy on our planet is really...just a drop of water in a larger ocean?

Plummeting the concept downwards towards our individual concicousness, then, might not we each be that drop of energy (damn that was rather Yoda) in the planet's ocean of energy?

So perhaps, on some microscopic level of our existence, we share that one mind BUT it's not an attainable reality within our current perception. For those acid users...liken it to that in-between time between initially ingesting the acid...the scattered questions of "Do you feel it?" along the way, and finally, when you're within full thrall and near the frenzied peak of the ride you realized...as an after-thought, that you are not just 'starting to feel' it but have been feeling it for quite some time. All you can do is laugh at that point.

Quote:
Nor do these ideas apply to this life now, as far as I can see. But I'm just checking in with my latest humble concerns on the subject. Thanks.
With the last bits of my rambling above it seems like I'm just confirming your last statement. These ideas can only be speculated about in this life. We honestly don't know what it's like 'past' this life. It hasn't occurred. Everything is a soup of probabilities until that moment occurs.

My apologies for a less than coherent writing, today. I'm working from a different office and trying to put these thoughts down in-between fighting various fires. Again, the whole concept of tying dualities and 'one' together with an 'energy event horizon' is really radical even in my own thoughts. I'll be pursuing it until I'm fairly certain that the dead-end I've hit has levelled my cranium and left bits of red-brick embedded in between my scalps follacles.

I look forward to seeing these discussions progress.

-Tant

EDITED:

So as an afterthought there I am standing outside puffing away and spinning my yo-yo madly up and down I drew another connection regarding my spouted 'even horizon' concept.... Somewhere on these forums someone had posted a link to a picture that depicts a 'schism'. The definition which I haven't bothered reading up on using Merriam-Webster's site, yet. I'll do that after this last thought....

Wouldn't that event horizon correlate with the definition of a 'schism'?


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Old 05-11-2003, 11:48 AM   #35
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This idea is nothing new

No one has even hinted towards Taoism and synchronicity.

These are Eastern beliefs, somewhat related to the I Ching. It's basically saying that there are no coincidences, everything is interelated.

Everything is connected by some driving forct. That may be the Tao, an energy level, a god, the human condition. Whatever you think.

This is a very mystical belief system, offering only relief for those who blindly follow. If you feel your coincidences mean something, than they probably will for you, but if you don't, they'll be insignificant.

"We are all one mind." I believe Maynard's trying to show that people, in their actions and coincidences, are all inter-connected somehow. Maybe not in some spooky spiritual way, but something else.

By crucifying the ego, you basically let go of your 'self.' (Ego means self). If you let go of what you hold novel about your self, than you can see how you are connected to everything. Maybe you have a personality that is very archetypel. You may be the damsel in distress, or the wise old man. Other archetypel personalities will be attracted and related to you, even though you have never met the people who posess them. Do you really believe that of the billions and billions of people that have existed throughout history, that you are completely different and your situation is unique to this world? Of course not. While things aren't exactly the same, people have experience quite similar events and lived close lives to you.

It is with this awareness, that you are related to everyone in the world through this phenomenon, that you can accomplish truly great things.

Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
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Old 05-12-2003, 08:48 AM   #36
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Tant - I would like to quote several pieces from your post but its too long and I dont have the patience to chop it up right now at work.

I agree about speculating here, and appreciate your thoughts on debate and rambling about subjects that just might shed a light on something for somebody.

About energy being conscious... I can see why you hit the wall about energy having no consciousness. If so, your ideas would hold up under any scrutiny, am I clear on this? What I would ask you is what are your motivations for breaking it down? What is your intent, and what do you expect to gain from this breaking down process? I think that we are more powerful than we give ourselves credit for. If we have an idea, why not take it to the extreme? Or as extreme as we feel it needs to be taken? Where there is a will, there is a way. If we are left grasping air where we thought there should have been substance, maybe we should reconsider our intention. Applyng rational thought does not always need to work. What is rational about people following a book a couple of thousand years old? Not much, but it is done, and it works for a lot of those people. You seem to think that knowing the answers to questions will be the end of something and therefore there is no more point in living. I say there ARE answers, and just think of new questions and repeat the process. Knowing that we are all capable of God-like attributes and knowledge does not deter me from desiring to exist. It makes it all the more exciting. If this is not your point then I apologize for misunderstanding.

I agree with your statements about duality. There are numerous threads in Schism and others concerning the re-union of the two halves of our brain, of the re-union of all duality in order to reach the unity. Thats where I got my name from, a paraflux is the word I made up to describe the process of two seemingly opposing forces both realizing they are both correct, rising above the pettiness of polarity and understanding that both sides say the same thing, they just describe different aspects of that thing. I am of the very strong opinion that we had this ability, but when we entered this stage of evolution it forced us to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or notice duality. People see the fall from Eden as a bad thing, I think it was necessary. That is probably why Maynard says in H. about how neither side is hateful, neither the snake or the blood, they are both aspects of the same thing, just listen. I think the point is to rise above this polarity and attain unity perspectives.

You say seeing and feeling the collective consciousness is not something that is attainable by human's perceptions today. That is the very reason why humans have had to change their perceptions. Evolution is change to participate in the environment. The environment just might now call for us to gain the ability to tap into this energy source consciously.
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Old 05-12-2003, 10:33 AM   #37
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I for one think we have taken this train of thought about as far as it can go, notwithstanding your latest contributions, which were quite fascinating. Actually, I like Rico's thought because it adds a new dimension. Losing the ego (or recognizing how you fit into a personality type) can indeed lead to personal transformation and interpersonal connection.

Along those lines... Tant, I am so glad you found within my concise statements some kernels to riff with. You've gone all out, man! Reconciling duality is to me not the same as we are all one mind, but important nonetheless. In terms of gender, I feel an androgynous human being who has both masculine and feminine elements is a more well-rounded person rather than a "typical" man (macho, all rational, linear, etc.) or "typical" woman (preening, all emotional, vacillating, etc.). I do think these ideas apply more to a song like "Schism": the image of the tidal forces kneading a permeable boundary is a good one. I don't like the event horizon one, though, because that is an impermeable border: cross that and the inexorable force within will destroy all matter and never let any energy escape.

Para, I thought you were named after the flux capacitor after it was paralyzed in 1955 Back to the Future :-) Evolution takes ages, and it is a process that occurs naturally, although humans seek to hijack the process through development of AI, nanotechnology and cloning, all of which I am very skeptical about, because I don't think humans are mature enough to tamper with these things. The idea that we can control (i.e. direct) the next step of our evolutionary development while we lack the understanding to control (i.e. morally regulate) ourselves during THIS phase is ludicrous. Now I am getting off on a tangent. But this has been very interesting, folks!
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Old 05-12-2003, 12:42 PM   #38
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Paraflux/Metalanarchist/RicoWonderboy, et al.

I'm in the middle of work so I haven't had a chance to sit down and reply with anything. I'll digest it in the meantime and clack something away when I get back to the keyboard....

-Tant
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Old 05-12-2003, 05:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rico Wonderboy
No one has even hinted towards Taoism and synchronicity.

These are Eastern beliefs, somewhat related to the I Ching. It's basically saying that there are no coincidences, everything is interrelated.
I wholeheartedly agree with the concept. I definitely need to flesh-out my reading some. Someone once mentioned that the "Tao of Pooh" was an interesting read. Sting and the Police aside, synchronicity fits so well into the concept of 'cycles' and the 'as below, so above', 'drop of water into the ocean, ocean into the drop of water' concepts that I've mulled over.

I think I'll add to my list of 'books to read' ; ) Right now I'm casually reading through "Cryptonomicon" and doing some off-and-on reading of "The Dancing Wu-Li Masters". I had to forgo a Noam Chomsky book, "Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies". but his writing style is so heady and dry that it's tough to 'want' to go back and finish it. Good stuff, nonetheless, just...dry. Perhaps some Taoism and I Ching would be a bit more refreshing.

Quote:
Originally posted by paraflux
About energy being conscious... I can see why you hit the wall about energy having no consciousness. If so, your ideas would hold up under any scrutiny, am I clear on this?
I'm not all to concerned with my ideas holding up under scrutiny. Under my own scrutiny, sure, since I'm comfortable with being a contradictory sot and changing my opinion when I want. I'm not sure I understood your question, though.

Quote:
What I would ask you is what are your motivations for breaking it down? What is your intent, and what do you expect to gain from this breaking down process?
My motivations for 'breaking it down'? Oh...I don't know. It's that typical tinker mentality, I suppose. Sometimes I get a wild hair and want to rip something apart just to know how it works. My intent and subsequent gain would be to look at all the sub-components that comprise of the whole and to have a better mental picture of how it works.

From another point of view perhaps one could call it the 'dog vs. tail' syndrome. I like to chase my tail. Hell, I know it's a tail but for some reason I just have an urge to chase it. It's not all as hopeless as one would think, though. Eventually, like all air headed mutts, we tire of the game or actually catch the tail with a nip and feel the pain or we notice some other engrossing thing like a spot of fur on our rump to munch on. Either way, something else finally catches our myopic attention and we run off to go romp in the grass, bark at a sprinkler or sniff some passing by azz.

Quote:
Applyng rational thought does not always need to work ... You seem to think that knowing the answers to questions will be the end of something and therefore there is no more point in living. I say there ARE answers, and just think of new questions and repeat the process ... If this is not your point then I apologize for misunderstanding.
Again, don't quote me on this. I'm speculating...not stating any firm beliefs. The experience is in the journeys that we take through life. Some part of me would hope that there will be some final epiphany that would shatter my little chrysalis that is this life and I'd magically take a step up in consciousness (I'm not holding my breath and waiting on that...). In there being 'no more point in living' I'd refer to the concept of 'living' that we know of in this life. No even really physical death. Hell, who knows, I might have that one, long awaited epiphany and actually transcend leaving behind a physical shell fit for some mental hospital or life-support system in the local hospital.

I agree that there are answers. What's frustrating for me is that a boat load of those 'answers' are nothing that I have been successful in articulating to other people. Those 'answers' are privy only to myself and my direct connection with the experiences that brought them about.

I could pull a Buddah and drag someone back to that river under a fig tree and say, "See! Right here! Look! Can't you see it? Can't you feel it?" And that person might shrug and say, "No...what the F* are you on Gautama?" and then proceed to relieve themselves in the river.

I have to say that I've given quite a few blank stares to people completely excited about something that in no way or form invokes the same for me. I think of my boy for example. Without jinxing myself as a 'tired adult' there are just some things that he's thrilled about that I just shrug over. It's not all for waste, though, because I also revel in his 'discoveries' and growth. Sometimes in his 'answers' I find a nugget that brings us together. Maybe not under the same light but we take what we can get.

Quote:
People see the fall from Eden as a bad thing
Naw..as much as this whole duality thing might 'suck', I think the greatest gift we could possible pull out of the whole thing is 'appreciation'. If we were all perfect human beings I'm not so sure we would feel the up's and down's that we experience. Perhaps this is what Keenan refers to as a 'holy gift' in Parabola. Perhaps not...

Quote:
... I think the point is to rise above this polarity and attain unity perspectives.
I agree...I'd re-word it for myself to read 'unite this polarity into a new perspective' or something like that. Either way, I think we're both going the same direction, here.

Quote:
You say seeing and feeling the collective consciousness is not something that is attainable by human's perceptions today. That is the very reason why humans have had to change their perceptions.
And, I believe, in due time this will happen. If we don't get atomized by passing cosmic debris, first = ) My best friend taught me a tough and tacit lesson..."You can't change someone who isn't willing to change." I of course didn't realize this for a good decade. I've faith, a sneaking suspicion, that with all the turmoil in the world that you'd made mention of...things will be just fine and we will progress.

Quote:
Originally posted by Metalanarchist
I for one think we have taken this train of thought about as far as it can go ... Losing the ego (or recognizing how you fit into a personality type) can indeed lead to personal transformation and interpersonal connection.
Oh man, I agree. This dog is getting tired of chasing his tail. I'm glad that a few others decided to trot by and perform some synchronized tail chasing ; ) I always tell myself I need to think about this ego thing but for some reason...I find something else to do *evil grin*.

Quote:
Reconciling duality is to me not the same as we are all one mind, but important nonetheless. In terms of gender, I feel an androgynous human being who has both masculine and feminine elements is a more well-rounded person rather than a "typical" man (macho, all rational, linear, etc.) or "typical" woman (preening, all emotional, vacillating, etc.). I do think these ideas apply more to a song like "Schism"
Damn Keenan for writing lyrics with a theme that can be found in all his songs.....I do agree that striving for that balance has benefits. Although I also respect some of the hard-core extreme personalities of people, too.

Quote:
...I don't like the event horizon one, though, because that is an impermeable border: cross that and the inexorable force within will destroy all matter and never let any energy escape.
Yeah...some part of me still sticks with the idea of the event horizon. Perhaps because in all actuality one (a black hole) has never actually been 'seen' merely the effects it has on the space surrounding it. I don't honestly know if it is an impermeable border that threatens destruction. Even if it does...is that bad?

Quote:
humans seek to hijack the process ... which I am very skeptical about, because I don't think humans are mature enough to tamper with these things. The idea that we can control (i.e. direct) the next step of our evolutionary development while we lack the understanding to control (i.e. morally regulate) ourselves during THIS phase is ludicrous.
I agree and I raise my hand and offer myself up as the next 'poster child' = ) Damn I hate these little fricking cliché quotes but "Know what you have and not what you want" comes to mind. Either way, some things can't be rushed. Ya' gotta age it like a fine wine to get the best results.

Quote:
Now I am getting off on a tangent. But this has been very interesting, folks!
Hey, we're all entitled to our 'little spirals' I'm just as guilty = ) I agree that perhaps this thread has been wrung for what it's worth. The best thing to do after all of this heady talk? Go out and live it a bit.

So this mutt is going to leave the tail alone for a bit and got chew on some grass. Actually, I need to go work on an old motorcycle and try and get it running. Good therapy in that.

*sigh* finally, now that the whole thread is hijacked from the one-mind concept (but...wait..couldn't all this discourse just be separate thoughts of one mind...) I wanted to veer back to another statement and another song...

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind".

I'll carry that thought on in the appropriate forum but I heard some people mention that this was a good thing. I don't think so ; ) If it was good than we could spend all our intellectual time chasing our tails and forget that there's trees to piss on and butterflies to chase.

With that....I must...pull ..myself ...away ...and ....go .....outside.....

-Tant
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Old 05-12-2003, 09:04 PM   #40
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my revelation

I once had returned from a tennis tournament, I had beaten everyone and was carrying a trophy. I was famished, thirsty and worn out; most of all I was content. My spirit was at ease like the pinks and browns meshing together at sunset.
-1st experience age 18
I rested my head on my pillow and as I closed my eyes I slowly started to feel vibrations almost like my body was having an orgasm as I started to slip further I felt warm as if tiny beams of lights were tickling me like butterflys brushing up against me with there small and girrating wings. My eyes were shut but they started to open as insight poured in like a torrential downpoor of soft pillowy moss striking me with sincerity from all angles.
The hairs on my arm seemed thick and then rough and then thin again. With reluctance I pictured what I saw, seeing nothing in result of believing there was nothing. First with fright and then awe I realized I was dreaming. I started to descend then with a sudden jerk I woke. looking at the clock it was only a 1/2 hour ago that I layed down.

-what this meant to me was by no means evident of being present in one mind, I loved it and yearned to be back in this loft. It was instant addiction, and blissful tremors reverberated throughout me and throughout the day and the next few days.
-Zach from RATM one said, "If ignorance is bliss knock the smile off my face." He meant this to be powerful and to describe the growth throughout his life that some don't see. He also meant this to be unpleasant exurting his anger and disgust from ignorant souls that are too institutionalized and corrupted. To me this line just means "grow" as an imperitive means. Growth doesn't end with death denial. Death is the greatest growth, and denial is growth of a weakness. This weakness cannot be described in words since it is in a language not of this Earth. Perhaps in Enochan. Even if this weakness could be perceived in English no one would understand except the individual who has the weakness. Much like my belief of hell no one can save you from your hell if you are the only one that knows you are there or denies you are dead.
-Denial is talked of much in the Bible, which I ferevently believe in. To deny God is to die. To die is to deny your own death. So "we are eternal all this pain is an illusion" seems poignantly true. Death being denial of truth
"God has not given me the spirit of fear, but of power, and of heart, and of a sound mind"
What is a sound mind does anyone know? I doubt it
Since a sound mind is often lusted for in vanity, but results in a typical ego-centric view.
I belive a sound mind is having the ability to experience something like I had with an open mind; to create something positive from it.

I woke up from a nice 10 hour sleep with my girlfriend of a few weeks calling me and asking me to go to church with her, I said no, but I had a better idea for spiritual release. I took her to Harper's Ferry, a small town in WV. Not too far from my home. A few millimeters on a u.s. map.
We found a spot and we climbed up there. This spot looked down on a river that forked in 3 directions with the middle one perpendicular to the main body of water. The town lay between the the tributary and part of the main body. We had crossed a bridge first to reach this area and the bridge lay under and past our line of sight. The sun was at mid-day, but not to hot.
We took our clothes off and just held eachother. We talked like God and Goddess on Mt. Olympus, gazing down upon civilization.
I didn't feel like making love to her, it almost seemed like it would deafen the feeling of ascension. We began to talk about God and how surreal and beautiful he made life to be. To perhaps let us appreciate our future heaven.(We aren't together anymore, but I feel one with her as I began to believe everyone is united)

-2nd experience 6 month ago, before my 20th birth(aries)
In the same day we drove back. When I got home I layed down and slept for a couple hours. I woke at 8. It was sunset so I decided to get a blanket and lie down in my back yard.

I felt by mind wander then quiet. I heard a sound in my head like running water and the blackness seen in my eyelids started to bewilder me in an amusing fashion like the feeling between fantasy and solid ground I felt in my only experience with shrooms. Though this felt not in the least bit deviant, I felt closer to God not feeling I was one.
Waves of light punished me, like the ocean against the break. This light was not my own but it was familiar. I saw nothing, but The power of the other senses opened my eyes in a way.
Then the most peculiar thing happened, I started to float. It was weightlessness to the extreme, like an elevator descending quickly catching your body off-guard. My body rose in its subconscious form, I could see it but I can't describe it.
My head weighed me down with its reluctance to change, It clung on like a doorknob in my pocket to open the door further I'd need to release but my materialism was in the way.
I simply retreated then defeated my pockets and weights.

What happened next was like a dream withing this new realm

I was rising, like there was helium in my hands, or a lightness between my brows. I began to see what looked like clouds or my interpretation of what clouds could be.
Everything was bright but dark and cozy like a green room, without the pulsing of eyelids.
Clear outlines of energy, like visible winds and otherwise invisible currents.

-the following describes my view of one reality, though I'd say I knew before

Clarity grew even more as my third eye opened and the burning ceased and I passed to a place where there was no color, like a gentle likeness of a tv channel without the fuzzy sound. Picture the sound of #13 faiip de oiaad in a calm setting with slower dynamics and softer rhythm. The feeling was like #2 of lateralus, like something inspiring has occured and this is the aftermath.
The bars and waves seemed close but so far, like a mirage or hologram retreating as I approached. I reached them and I realized they were the sub-consciouses of others ascending or descending. A few were floating around like feathers falling from the heavens or water vapor transforming into white puffy clouds. Most of the one's floating around were complete, whole as in not tied to Earth.
I think one of them asked me a question. As I recall it sounded like, "Are you present, past, or future?"
I didn't answer

I woke taking in a deep draw of air and started to cry. It felt good, I thought for the rest of the day.
I derived that I was far too naive to simple draw a hypothesis since I doubt I could prove it to myself.
-I know that we are not alone
-Much is possible
-Much is to be learned
-I also know that
We are one, since we were created by one
-We are physical because our spirits reside in a shell created by our physical parents division
-Sin is never against anyone but yourself and your ability to release it
-truth is like an equation or a law of science, In certain variants something mathematically valid can be falsified.

I should have answered all three!
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