I am brand new to this site, and the bulletin board, and pretty damned new to Tool as well, so if I come off as a complete ass for making this observation...then just, um, do...something. Anyway, I'm not going to go too far with this, but in "Sober" as well as "46 & 2" there is a reference to a "shadow" which I believe could be interpreted to be directly relating to the philosophies of C.G. Jung, {there's more on this in the FAQ under "Aenima" if anyone has not seen it}. Anyway, it seems to me that this shadow could be interpreted as being a connection between both these songs. Not a direct connection, but that both songs are about similar concepts. In that sense, maybe if you compare the two, you can shed some light on one or the other.
Hmm. There seems to me a glimmer of connection between the 2.
In Sober(which I take as a song on depression.), the shadows seems like the cloud of feelings one has while depressed, blocking most hopes (beams of light).
46&2(which I take as a song on.. "changes"(?) in someone's life.) they seem to want to escape said shadow.
An interesting point, but a small connection. It could go many ways really.
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The power of accurate observation is commonly called cyncism by those who have not got it.
I definitely agree with the C.G. Jung theory, the shadow being the the shadow archetype, theres more i belive.
Jesus: the self archetype, symbolyzing completeness, blowing the whistle is too stop the shadow.
Mother Mary: maybe mother archetype, to tell him that everything will be ok.
in the chorus "why CAN'T we NOT be sober" using double negative to be a possitive, these are bad actions, in a way, apply wasting in away in "drink forever, or sleep forever"
then second verse is the shadow talking, to let all these denied feelings out. the shadow tries to persuade the self into letting him in, no matter how harmful they maybe.
Originally posted by Someguy 46&2(which I take as a song on.. "changes"(?) in someone's life.) they seem to want to escape said shadow.
not escape per say, but to embrace so as to become one with it, and be able to 'push through'. Hence the "I chose to live and lie, kill and die, be paranoid, and ect. (all the other positive and negitive aspect of life)"
Maybe this really belongs in the 46 & 2 section, but I'll put it here as it is currently being discussed here. The way I view 46 & 2 is definitely about change, but I see 46 & 2 being a song explaining the ways in which we prepare for change. Being open to accept any changes, "soften this old armor" take down your indoctrinated walls and be willing to really learn about the world. Sober is a song that has to do with changes once again, but also about how someone could have changed and didn't. I don't know, this is all just ranting from me. Glad to be on here with such a great community. I think I appreciate this song also on a musicians level because of the complexity yet simplicity (i know it makes no sense) of the instruments on this song (sober). The guitar riffs in this song are very easy and throughout the song rather slow, yet to me, this is one of their most powerful songs. Maybe it just kinda hits me the right way. Later!
you know when MJK is referring to a shadow it could have absolutly nothing to do with a connection between 46&2 and sober, because as most of us know the albums are all differnt and all refer to one main point on each album. but the thing is a shadow is a non desriptive dark thing, that has no definition or expression. it changes shape and size so it could be used to mean almost anything
the two songs are obviously connected, but also connected directly to the song bottom, where he tells his shadow off. In a sense, all of tools albums have to do with battling the shadow and trying to over come it.
man in black tell me how those songs are obviously connected. i have heard a million songs with the word shadow in it. and that doesnt mean they are connected one way or another. like paradox said and i was getting at a shadow can be a metaphor for almost anything. because like i said erlier it has no shape or distinct characteristcs so that doesnt mean the sons are related
l don't think that's true at all...Lateralus is mostly about metamorphisizing into your true self.
__________________ l don't want to be alone again today...
Hold me close and together we'll pray
That this moment never fades away...
Fade away, fade away, like any other day.
Hmm. There seems to me a glimmer of connection between the 2.
In Sober(which I take as a song on depression.), the shadows seems like the cloud of feelings one has while depressed, blocking most hopes (beams of light).
46&2(which I take as a song on.. "changes"(?) in someone's life.) they seem to want to escape said shadow.
An interesting point, but a small connection. It could go many ways really.
I don't think so... he's talking about his shadow evolving, finding his 46&2(evolution in a nutshell)...
