Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Interesting-- even though I've seen Tool twice on this current tour, I've yet to see at least three songs that are regularly performed (Right In Two, Opiate, Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned). And yet, according to this thread, they don't change up their set list enough. Umm, ok. At this point, I would be really happy to see the above three songs over the next three shows I am seeing on this tour. The band have been getting rave reviews since they came back stateside (starting with SD Street Scene) so it looks like they have hit their stride.
I will say you can add my name to the chorus of people hoping we get Wings 1&2 at some point-- and feel free to drop some of the older stuff guys! It will not only be great to hear the new album in its entirety, but just as great (if not more so) to read TDN the next day and listen to people whine about not getting H., Eulogy, Ticks and Leeches and Reflection! It's like a dream double header.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Wow.
There are a lot of people in this particular forum who can't spell or use proper English, and I won't hold that against anyone, seeing as some people here are probably not from the United States, or products of any sort of school system, per se.
Nonetheless, let's go on.
One of my favorite moments in Tool's catalog of song and dance is the Timothy Leary quote, "Free yourself. Question authority." Sure, it's almost cliche now, because it's been cited so many times, but that doesn't weaken it's intention.
For all of you newer fans who deem that each and every Tool show is the most beautiful snowflake, fine. Continue to feel that way. For those of you who are experiencing Tool for the first time ever ... even better! Masturbate after the show. My first show in New Orleans, '98, was a truly moving experience for me. Nothing music-related has topped that performance for me, not only because it was my first time, but also because of a friend of mine who'd heard Tool on the radio that really didn't like them at all ...
I bought him a ticket for his birthday anyway. The little boy needed to take his medicine and become a man!
Long story short, it was because of the dynamics and experimentation with their songs in that show, I believe, that he came around. It was because of the new version of "Pushit." It was because of the sheer dynamics and intensity of "Flood." It was because King Buzzo from the Melvins came out on stage and carried Maynard around in a duffle bag while he sang. It was because of his preacher outfit, and his bra, and his constant commentary on how people in the audience should start masturbating into high-powered fans, etc. It was a "You Lied" cover. It was a giant vagina singing the words to "Hooker with a Penis" as we left the stadium, and cocks in cowboy hats flying around the screen ...
That '98 show was typical, from what I understand reading other '98 show reviews, of what Tool's energy level was like.
Another thing that's interesting is that within that tour, the setlist constantly shifted. "(-)ions" sometimes. Sometimes "H." Sometimes "Sweat." Sometimes "Part of Me." Sometimes "Cold and Ugly." Sometimes "Crawl Away." And sure, they played "the hits," but the BEST thing about that tour was not knowing what was coming up. The band felt like it was just picking songs out of a hat and jamming more, and improvising!
1998 was a great tour. I fell in love. These more recent shows, even though I'm totally psyched to see them on stage at The Gorge, feel more generic, more like a "compacted for your listening pleasure" sort of experience.
I don't think it's wrong to expect more, folks. I don't think it's wrong to expect the band to take ownership of a show, and leave the audience stunned with totally unheard-of musicianship, to make that show feel "special." Someone can say, "Hey, I was at the show where Maynard whipped out the Grammy Award for best metal performance, held it up high and proclaimed he was the king of music! The everyone had to listen to Tool, now, because they were the heavy metal champions." That's not something everyone can say. It's insane to think that each show can be unique, but it'd be nice if at least 1 out of 3, or 1 out of 10, were.
And folks, it's called paying for a ticket, paying for a product. I bought the new fucking record. I've bought every fucking record. I've bought copies signed by Alex Gray, for God's sake, not only supporting the band, but supporting the artists that support Tool. Even when sometimes, I don't really have extra money. I spend it anyway on my favorite band in the world, a band that coincidentally is selling out shows and going platinum on all of its albums because of our hard-earned money.
"Think for yourself. Question authority."
Folks, it is every man's Tool-given right to question what choices the band makes. They are not, and wouldn't want you to think that they are, infallible beings. Question Tool. Question why these recent setlists are not giving people more random experimentation, or a more unique take on a band we all know is beautiful. Tool was never meant to become a stationary bike, though, and I hate to read reviews that point towards a complacency in their shows. I, after all, am bringing a new fan to this show ... a new person who's never seen exactly why I love the music so much just from listening to a random song here and there. This show is Tool's chance to not only make a nice evening escape, but their chance to really change and help people experience what the passion of music is all about.
I would hate to feel that the band is losing its sense of wonder about the music it's constructed. I'm sure that after playing it thousands of times, it becomes a trap, so let the band play something new and pull itself from the ruts its dug.
__________________ "When I get new information, I change my position. What, sir, do you do with new information?" - John Maynard Keynes
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shizaquawn
Wow.
There are a lot of people in this particular forum who can't spell or use proper English, and I won't hold that against anyone, seeing as some people here are probably not from the United States, or products of any sort of school system, per se.
Nonetheless, let's go on.
One of my favorite moments in Tool's catalog of song and dance is the Timothy Leary quote, "Free yourself. Question authority." Sure, it's almost cliche now, because it's been cited so many times, but that doesn't weaken it's intention.
For all of you newer fans who deem that each and every Tool show is the most beautiful snowflake, fine. Continue to feel that way. For those of you who are experiencing Tool for the first time ever ... even better! Masturbate after the show. My first show in New Orleans, '98, was a truly moving experience for me. Nothing music-related has topped that performance for me, not only because it was my first time, but also because of a friend of mine who'd heard Tool on the radio that really didn't like them at all ...
I bought him a ticket for his birthday anyway. The little boy needed to take his medicine and become a man!
Long story short, it was because of the dynamics and experimentation with their songs in that show, I believe, that he came around. It was because of the new version of "Pushit." It was because of the sheer dynamics and intensity of "Flood." It was because King Buzzo from the Melvins came out on stage and carried Maynard around in a duffle bag while he sang. It was because of his preacher outfit, and his bra, and his constant commentary on how people in the audience should start masturbating into high-powered fans, etc. It was a "You Lied" cover. It was a giant vagina singing the words to "Hooker with a Penis" as we left the stadium, and cocks in cowboy hats flying around the screen ...
That '98 show was typical, from what I understand reading other '98 show reviews, of what Tool's energy level was like.
Another thing that's interesting is that within that tour, the setlist constantly shifted. "(-)ions" sometimes. Sometimes "H." Sometimes "Sweat." Sometimes "Part of Me." Sometimes "Cold and Ugly." Sometimes "Crawl Away." And sure, they played "the hits," but the BEST thing about that tour was not knowing what was coming up. The band felt like it was just picking songs out of a hat and jamming more, and improvising!
1998 was a great tour. I fell in love. These more recent shows, even though I'm totally psyched to see them on stage at The Gorge, feel more generic, more like a "compacted for your listening pleasure" sort of experience.
I don't think it's wrong to expect more, folks. I don't think it's wrong to expect the band to take ownership of a show, and leave the audience stunned with totally unheard-of musicianship, to make that show feel "special." Someone can say, "Hey, I was at the show where Maynard whipped out the Grammy Award for best metal performance, held it up high and proclaimed he was the king of music! The everyone had to listen to Tool, now, because they were the heavy metal champions." That's not something everyone can say. It's insane to think that each show can be unique, but it'd be nice if at least 1 out of 3, or 1 out of 10, were.
And folks, it's called paying for a ticket, paying for a product. I bought the new fucking record. I've bought every fucking record. I've bought copies signed by Alex Gray, for God's sake, not only supporting the band, but supporting the artists that support Tool. Even when sometimes, I don't really have extra money. I spend it anyway on my favorite band in the world, a band that coincidentally is selling out shows and going platinum on all of its albums because of our hard-earned money.
"Think for yourself. Question authority."
Folks, it is every man's Tool-given right to question what choices the band makes. They are not, and wouldn't want you to think that they are, infallible beings. Question Tool. Question why these recent setlists are not giving people more random experimentation, or a more unique take on a band we all know is beautiful. Tool was never meant to become a stationary bike, though, and I hate to read reviews that point towards a complacency in their shows. I, after all, am bringing a new fan to this show ... a new person who's never seen exactly why I love the music so much just from listening to a random song here and there. This show is Tool's chance to not only make a nice evening escape, but their chance to really change and help people experience what the passion of music is all about.
I would hate to feel that the band is losing its sense of wonder about the music it's constructed. I'm sure that after playing it thousands of times, it becomes a trap, so let the band play something new and pull itself from the ruts its dug.
Location: Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Posts: 1,309
Bincount™: 36
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Why is it so difficult to believe that the band needs to fine tune after a very long absence from the road and a new release? That the limited small venues tour is part of a gradual integration into form for both the rigour of touring and the performance of new material? Why isn't the shitload of new material being played along with many standards enough to convince many of you of their continued passion?
When I saw Adam and Justin stand in front of their stacks with their backs to the crowd quietly and methodologically milking feedback and crafting distortion and synchronicity during the set I saw a couple of months ago (Maynard and Danny silent, and disappeared) - I was blown away by not only the sound, but by their dedication and drive to reproduce live what they had recently constructed in studio.
Faulting the band for playing many of their 'standards' in light of the the effort and energy spent introducing the 10,000 Days material seems incredibly shortsighted and unappreciative - what do you think the band is thinking and trying to do here: give the fans a new version of 46&2 or feel comfortable nailing Jambi or Lost Keys?
And I've got to say that after waiting years, watching them belt out a textbook version of something like 'Lateralus', for example, was enough to make me wet again.
I guess I'm an easy crowd compared to some of you demanding art critics - strange though, haven't heard much noise about people missing the contortionists on this tour...
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by encrusted
Why is it so difficult to believe that the band needs to fine tune after a very long absence from the road and a new release? That the limited small venues tour is part of a gradual integration into form for both the rigour of touring and the performance of new material? Why isn't the shitload of new material being played along with many standards enough to convince many of you of their continued passion?
When I saw Adam and Justin stand in front of their stacks with their backs to the crowd quietly and methodologically milking feedback and crafting distortion and synchronicity during the set I saw a couple of months ago (Maynard and Danny silent, and disappeared) - I was blown away by not only the sound, but by their dedication and drive to reproduce live what they had recently constructed in studio.
Faulting the band for playing many of their 'standards' in light of the the effort and energy spent introducing the 10,000 Days material seems incredibly shortsighted and unappreciative - what do you think the band is thinking and trying to do here: give the fans a new version of 46&2 or feel comfortable nailing Jambi or Lost Keys?
And I've got to say that after waiting years, watching them belt out a textbook version of something like 'Lateralus', for example, was enough to make me wet again.
I guess I'm an easy crowd compared to some of you demanding art critics - strange though, haven't heard much noise about people missing the contortionists on this tour...
Because this is what they get paid for. They are professional musicians, this is their art, their life, what they've been doing for years now. You really think it takes men who've been playing for over 20 years at least 4 months to 'tune' up and relearn songs? More like 4 days, and that should include a good chunk of their catalogue. The new ones are fresh man, they've been hammering them out for months perfecting them in the studio already. I can understand the purpose of the initial mini tour in May, but another 3 months of the same stuff? Please.
Oh, and 'textbook' + Tool shouldn't ever be together in the same sentence.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Well, what can I say?
I sat there at 9AM in the morning - with 5 workstations, all simultaneously attempting to get tickets to see Tool in Sydney, Australia. After 2 hours of desperation trying to get the website to actually <work> and allow me to purchase a ticket and simultaneously ringing them on the phone (the company is Ticketmaster Australia), I was greeted by an individual who told me they were "all sold out" in the first hour. Wonderful. :(
So, myself, like countless thousands of other Australian's are now going to miss out on the two singlular "real" shows Tool are doing down under - and be content (and as yet, we aren't even sure of this) at them doing a crappy Big Day Out festival :(.
Thanks scalpers. Thanks promoters. Thanks organisers. You wrecked it for 90% of us. As I said in another thread, I'm now desperate enough to play right into the scalpers hands and buy tickets off Ebay. This is what happens when you announce two crappy singular shows...and expect it to all be ok :(.
Tool, I know it's not your fault if you ever read this. Just bad management/dissociate client demand/understanding etc. All the same, some of your most loyal fans are now completely in the cold.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra
Well, what can I say?
Thanks scalpers. Thanks promoters. Thanks organisers. You wrecked it for 90% of us. As I said in another thread, I'm now desperate enough to play right into the scalpers hands and buy tickets off Ebay. This is what happens when you announce two crappy singular shows...and expect it to all be ok :(.
Thanks :\
I was one of the lucky few who actually managed to get seats in Melbourne- that said, I lined up for nearly 18 hours, having zero faith in Ticketmasters website.
I was told at 430 the day before tix even went on sale by Ticketmaster there were hardly any seats, as the promoters (Lees and West, Triple J, and Channel V) had already taken half. Then, 15 minutes before tix went on sale, we were warned that the odds on us getting seats to Melb was next to nothing. Last check, a single seat to Melb was going for $400+ on Ebay.
Basically, the Australian concerts have been totally fucked over by the promoters,
scalpers, and the fact that Ticketmaster are the most incompetent pack of pricks since..well, ever. There were no ticket limits, ensuring that scalpers with the $$ could buy 20, leaving fans with nothing.
Time after time, their phone service and web service has crashed for high demand events, from Kylie Minogue to U2, and now Tool. The fact that they still haven't fixed this is testament to the fact that essentially, they couldn't give a shit about where the tickets go, provided that they sell- something which, after 6 years since Tool's last Aus tour, was pretty much guaranteed.
I feel like one of the luckiest people in Australia right now, simply because I have tickets- the fact they're good ones seems almost irrelevent. But I am seriously pissed that so many fans missed out, forcing them to buy from the eBay sleazebags. Yes it's easy to say, "well don't support them", but with Tool's visits to AUS so few and far between, for many of us, if you missed out through Ticketmaster, what else are we going to do?
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
I actually managed to get tix for U2 as well! Still waiting to see them! Tool has been a monumental let down, at least, in Australia, as far as ticket-woes go.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by optimistic-pessimist
First let me edit your post for you a bit.
It would be you're instead of your, and proves instead of prove. Go back to school, study up a bit, grow some thumbs, and then come back and repost, ok?
Secondly... "hypocrite" huh? Elaborate for me, please. Oh wait... perhaps that's too large a word. Please explain further how I'm a hypocrite. I'll give you time to go look up the meaning of the word first.
Maiden you've said nothing intelligent in any of your first 3 posts, and then you randomly stick a quote from a song in... just sort of thrown in there. How am I parasite? Please explain that one for us all as well. Come back with a real argument instead of a few belligerent words thrown together, and maybe then I'll consider you worth my time.
"maybe then I'll consider you worth my time."
Obviously you alredy have considered me worth your time by typing the post above. This proves you are a .................."HYPOCRITE"!
I've been baiting you all weekend long............ thanks for the laughs silly little boy!
A more accurate screen name for you would be "Complaining little bitch"!
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
What utter shit. When the fuck are they gonna change this fuckin setlist. Don't they get bored played the same shit night after night after night. And no, i'm not even complaining, as i haven't seen them doing their Fall our yet. I'll be seeing them in about a month. Hopefully they'll be sick of bying the same songs by then!!!
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
honestly though... it's fair for all of us to ask for more from them. they take so goddamn long to make an album and then when they tour they can't muster anything more than the setlist they created earlier in the year? I know they said that tour was a practice, but I enjoyed the show in Philly. I could go without seeing Isis play anything, I'd rather just hear a few more songs from TOOL.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
It's a sad irony that Tool's brilliance is ultimately what raises peoples expectations to the point that they receive unrivalled criticism and scrutiny from their fans.
I was fortunate enough to get tickets to the Melbourne show, and I will certainly buy more tickets if/when they announce more shows in Aus. Even if I am seeing the same setlist, I doubt that detail will matter in the slightest when I am looking back on the experiences in 20 years time.
Location: I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this.
Posts: 376
Bincount™: 69
What.The. Fuck.
I seriously bought a ticket to see the same weak ass fucking half show that I saw at Coachella and Gammage? Why? If this setlist doesn't change, then I have really lost interest in this band. and I LIKE 10,000 Days.
Location: I expected the Rocky Mountains to be a little rockier than this.
Posts: 376
Bincount™: 69
Re: What.The. Fuck.
Yeah, the Lateralus tour fucking sucked. I guess I don't even know why I bought tickets to this third show this this year. Why did I see four shows on the Lateralus tour when it was so terrible. I was completely-not blown away.
Yeah, the Lateralus tour fucking sucked. I guess I don't even know why I bought tickets to this third show this this year. Why did I see four shows on the Lateralus tour when it was so terrible. I was completely-not blown away.
/sarcasm
Your standards have probably changed in those 4 or 5 years since the Lateralus tour. It's not like children are entertained by Sesame Street forever, you know?
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
I just read the setlist and a review of a guy, who was at The Gorge yesterday, and from what I've read they are doing exactly the same thing as they were doing at the 2 concerts that I've visited in June in Germany.
Mind you, the music is awesome, although I liked the previous tour better, but it they come back to Europe to do the same thing over again, I won't be buying tickets, if the setlist changes than it's an entirely different thing, and this is a sentiment that's shared a lot by other Tool-fans around here, that I've been talking to.
__________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar.
That's what you get for paying a lot of money to see a band that has a reputation for being extremely terrible in a live setting.
they have a bad reputation for performing live?!?! are you serious? everyone i've ever known that has seen tool live says it's the best concert experience of their lives. at least 5 of the top concerts i've ever been to were tool concerts. there is definitely no bad rep for their live show in general. however, this tour is turning out to be a disappointment.
__________________ QED
"This is a private residence, man!"
halfsharkalligatorhalfman
10/23/07 OiNK Never Forget
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Latest Setlist:
Stinkfist
The Pot
46&2
Jambi
Schism
Rosetta Stoned
Opiate
Sober
Lateralus
Vicarious
Ænema
I could do without Stinkfist, 46&2, Schism, Opiate, Sober and Lateralus and instead would like to hear some songs like Eulogy, Jimmy, Pushit, Third Eye, Ticks & Leeches, The patient, H., Hooker with a penis, The grudge, Wings for Marie, 10,000 days.
__________________ And if you want my address, it's number 1 at the end of the bar.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
You really think they'd be getting tired of doing the same exact setlist every show. They drastically need to change the setlist up, not just one or two or even three songs. They toured the states once already with that setlist. Don't they realize they have fans who've been 'with' them for the past 12 years and desperately want to hear some older and BETTER songs that we all know they are capable of belting out? They are slowly losing my respect.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
I understand where everyone's coming from with the whole same setlist thing...but keep in mind that 90% of the "super groups" all do the same thing. Like it or not, most people do NOT go to see multiple shows on the same tour and the band is looking to bring in as many NEW fans as they can by providing what they think is the most desireable setlist to the NEW fan. They will often throw a small wrench in the setlist for the hardcores, but I would be very surprised if they change up much more than that. Keep in mind, you have already purchased all of their CD's, and you are almost certainly paying for other merchandise as well. They have your money...now they want the next guy to do the same. Also...at a concert, most of the time the audience is "one entity", and that giant entity gets really excited over songs like 46&2, schism, sober....and it settles down over the "lesser known" songs. Concerts are rarely made up of what the band and longtime fans might consider their "best" or most creative material...but instead songs that will have the entire place going nuts. Not everybody is like me...but I like hearing songs I know at a concert. Sure I'd love to hear something different from what I heard on the pre-tour (which was my first Tool show) now that I know their entire catalogue, but I can hardly fault them for it.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noopie
I understand where everyone's coming from with the whole same setlist thing...but keep in mind that 90% of the "super groups" all do the same thing. Like it or not, most people do NOT go to see multiple shows on the same tour and the band is looking to bring in as many NEW fans as they can by providing what they think is the most desireable setlist to the NEW fan. They will often throw a small wrench in the setlist for the hardcores, but I would be very surprised if they change up much more than that. Keep in mind, you have already purchased all of their CD's, and you are almost certainly paying for other merchandise as well. They have your money...now they want the next guy to do the same. Also...at a concert, most of the time the audience is "one entity", and that giant entity gets really excited over songs like 46&2, schism, sober....and it settles down over the "lesser known" songs. Concerts are rarely made up of what the band and longtime fans might consider their "best" or most creative material...but instead songs that will have the entire place going nuts. Not everybody is like me...but I like hearing songs I know at a concert. Sure I'd love to hear something different from what I heard on the pre-tour (which was my first Tool show) now that I know their entire catalogue, but I can hardly fault them for it.
Previous tours did not follow this mentality, and for those of us who have been around for a long time and have seen them throughout the years, this short, radio-hits, "compacted for your listening pleasure" setlist does not make sense. It doesn't fit. It's not what we've grown accustomed to when going to see our favorite band.
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangleholder
Let's face it, the guy from Hooker was right...he's more right now than ever......
Maynard's character in that song never opposed the statement that they had sold out. He only combated the accusation by saying that it happened a long time before even the most OGT of us ever heard the music. But there is a difference between selling out and being popular. Popular is selling out large arena venues. Selling out is allowing someone to manipulate your music/art for commercial purposes. I don't see that as the case. Their souls may be contractually bound to Satan, but I don't see them sucking his cock-a-doodle-doo just yet.
__________________ Go Sexy Randall the Pharaoh Wizard!
Last edited by HappySlave; 08-30-2006 at 06:30 AM..
Re: Tour complaints -- brokers, scalping, etc. (merged)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySlave
Maynard's character in that song never opposed the statement that they had sold out. He only combated the accusation by saying that it happened a long time before even the most OGT of us ever heard the music. But there is a difference between selling out and being popular. Popular is selling out large arena venues. Selling out is allowing someone to manipulate your music/art for commercial purposes. I don't see that as the case. Their souls may be contractually bound to Satan, but I don't see them sucking his cock-a-doodle-doo just yet.
True....guess I'm just pissed off a little and think we deserve more than what they've been offering lately.
Seriously, what happened to the good old days where they played pretty much the whole recent album and also played older songs...And No I dont mean the same god damn older songs ever show I mean when they used to switch out different older songs every 2 to three shows...So it felt like you were getting a treat. This same exact setlist every night bullshit is pissing me off..
I thought Blair posted that in this part of the tour theyd be playing various different shit...But so far they've just been playing the same bullshit. I saw them in the fall mini tour and now after spending 180 bucks on a floor ticket it looks like Ill be seeing the same exact shit I saw then... I want some variety in a performance and I would think that Tool would as well... I saw in a recent interview maynard and adam said the reason they played the same shit every show was b/c they were getting back in the swing of things as well as maynards voice...WELP I THINK THAT SHOULD BE AQUIRED BY NOW...
Dunno but when I go to the next show in two weeks Im gonna be fucking pissed if they play the same shit... And Im not going to anymore further tool shows until I know that they will change it up b/c thats not the Tool Ive grown to love...Especially live...If you have only seen them on the 10,000 Days Tour and you dont know what Im talking about then go revert back to some setlists from the Lateralus and Pre-Lateralus tours...B/c those were some good fucking shows.
well so far theyve played places they didnt play on the minitour.. i think. so maybe they will change it up for when thye play LA again. ill be dissappointed if it is the exact same setlist as when i saw thme in may.. i would like to see the grudge again live or undertow or whatever. maybe they are still rusty n arent ready to play their old stuff live? i heard they played the grudge and 10000days during warmup but they werent ready.. idk hpefully they tour is evolving
__________________ Your Band Sucks, I <3 Satan and Chainsaws
