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A Tad Bit Catatonic's Avatar A Tad Bit Catatonic
04-16-2006, 04:13 AM
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I see alot of people complaining about the simplicity of the lyrics. It is not schism, and part of the reason I was never that huge of a fan of Schism anyway, was that the lyrics on that song are a little over the top and trying too hard to sound smart, and therefore self righteous (don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it is certainly not my favorite Tool song). So the lyrics in Vicarious are more symplified and have a more organic feel to them, to me anyway. What I have learned in my lifetime, and somewhat knowledgable about music and art. There is a school of thinking that simple can be better, basically impressionism - and this carries over to almost any creative realm. Leaving space in between and not cluttering things too much, being poetic and making alot of a little. I'm pretty sure that's what is going on here - Maynard is employing this idea in full force. So if you weren't aware of this concept (I guess considering some of these people posting here are 12, or seem like it anyway), I just wanted to offer it. Remember it is "Art rock" - not death metal, or math metal, or anything else. Which also makes it a lasting creation, and gives it validity for a long time to come, just like a Rembrandt or something.
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Old 04-16-2006, 04:13 AM   #1
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The lyrics as art

I see alot of people complaining about the simplicity of the lyrics. It is not schism, and part of the reason I was never that huge of a fan of Schism anyway, was that the lyrics on that song are a little over the top and trying too hard to sound smart, and therefore self righteous (don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it is certainly not my favorite Tool song). So the lyrics in Vicarious are more symplified and have a more organic feel to them, to me anyway. What I have learned in my lifetime, and somewhat knowledgable about music and art. There is a school of thinking that simple can be better, basically impressionism - and this carries over to almost any creative realm. Leaving space in between and not cluttering things too much, being poetic and making alot of a little. I'm pretty sure that's what is going on here - Maynard is employing this idea in full force. So if you weren't aware of this concept (I guess considering some of these people posting here are 12, or seem like it anyway), I just wanted to offer it. Remember it is "Art rock" - not death metal, or math metal, or anything else. Which also makes it a lasting creation, and gives it validity for a long time to come, just like a Rembrandt or something.
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Carbonatedgravy
04-16-2006, 04:16 AM
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The song may be easy to understand on the surface right away, but there are still deeper levels. I think there's plenty of depth. I'm not sure Kabir is going to have to go Forty-Six & 2 by dedicating 15% of the faq to it, but it's still very thoughtful.
Old 04-16-2006, 04:16 AM   #2
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Re: The lyrics as art

The song may be easy to understand on the surface right away, but there are still deeper levels. I think there's plenty of depth. I'm not sure Kabir is going to have to go Forty-Six & 2 by dedicating 15% of the faq to it, but it's still very thoughtful.
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A Tad Bit Catatonic's Avatar A Tad Bit Catatonic
04-16-2006, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy
The song may be easy to understand on the surface right away, but there are still deeper levels. I think there's plenty of depth. I'm not sure Kabir is going to have to go Forty-Six & 2 by dedicating 15% of the faq to it, but it's still very thoughtful.
Very much agree - there are alot of little concepts going on in there. And afterall, any work of art, well the main point from what I understand: Is to express and evoke emotions, to give inspiration, and to capture the human spirit. And Christ, if Vicarious doesn't do that I don't know what will. If it doesn't do that for you and it sounds too "New Metal" or you don't like "this part" or "that part" of it - you can always go sit down and watch tv.

Also though, it is not so based on Jungian concepts (which I am a big fan of) as most of the stuff on Aenema, in particular 46&2. It's more straight forward and organic that way. I love the new direction.
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Last edited by A Tad Bit Catatonic; 04-16-2006 at 04:23 AM..
Old 04-16-2006, 04:21 AM   #3
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy
The song may be easy to understand on the surface right away, but there are still deeper levels. I think there's plenty of depth. I'm not sure Kabir is going to have to go Forty-Six & 2 by dedicating 15% of the faq to it, but it's still very thoughtful.
Very much agree - there are alot of little concepts going on in there. And afterall, any work of art, well the main point from what I understand: Is to express and evoke emotions, to give inspiration, and to capture the human spirit. And Christ, if Vicarious doesn't do that I don't know what will. If it doesn't do that for you and it sounds too "New Metal" or you don't like "this part" or "that part" of it - you can always go sit down and watch tv.

Also though, it is not so based on Jungian concepts (which I am a big fan of) as most of the stuff on Aenema, in particular 46&2. It's more straight forward and organic that way. I love the new direction.
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dilatedcrimson
04-16-2006, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Tad Bit Catatonic
- you can always go sit down and watch tv.
haha. not sure if that was meant to be taken as a joke but i thought that was funny.

i personally love these lyrics. because the meaning of the song is pretty true. everyone needs to keep in mind that this is tool's "blues" album where they pretty much bitch about stuff. i mean i love complicated lyrics that are hard to figure out and stuff, but i also love the simplicity that some lyrics have. Its always fun not to beat around the bush and just SAY what you feel.

I think many people's problems are they're still waiting for another Lateralus. And that's not gonna happen. People need to understand this.
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Old 04-16-2006, 04:27 AM   #4
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Re: The lyrics as art

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Originally Posted by A Tad Bit Catatonic
- you can always go sit down and watch tv.
haha. not sure if that was meant to be taken as a joke but i thought that was funny.

i personally love these lyrics. because the meaning of the song is pretty true. everyone needs to keep in mind that this is tool's "blues" album where they pretty much bitch about stuff. i mean i love complicated lyrics that are hard to figure out and stuff, but i also love the simplicity that some lyrics have. Its always fun not to beat around the bush and just SAY what you feel.

I think many people's problems are they're still waiting for another Lateralus. And that's not gonna happen. People need to understand this.
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A Tad Bit Catatonic's Avatar A Tad Bit Catatonic
04-16-2006, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dilatedcrimson
haha. not sure if that was meant to be taken as a joke but i thought that was funny.

i personally love these lyrics. because the meaning of the song is pretty true. everyone needs to keep in mind that this is tool's "blues" album where they pretty much bitch about stuff. i mean i love complicated lyrics that are hard to figure out and stuff, but i also love the simplicity that some lyrics have. Its always fun not to beat around the bush and just SAY what you feel.

I think many people's problems are they're still waiting for another Lateralus. And that's not gonna happen. People need to understand this.
More like vindictive, cutting sarcasm, but a "joke" works too.

And yeah, people are stubborn and resistant to change, and scared of new twists on old things. Human nature is a beast that way, and holds our whole species back in so many different aspects. Agreed wholeheartedly.
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Old 04-16-2006, 04:33 AM   #5
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by dilatedcrimson
haha. not sure if that was meant to be taken as a joke but i thought that was funny.

i personally love these lyrics. because the meaning of the song is pretty true. everyone needs to keep in mind that this is tool's "blues" album where they pretty much bitch about stuff. i mean i love complicated lyrics that are hard to figure out and stuff, but i also love the simplicity that some lyrics have. Its always fun not to beat around the bush and just SAY what you feel.

I think many people's problems are they're still waiting for another Lateralus. And that's not gonna happen. People need to understand this.
More like vindictive, cutting sarcasm, but a "joke" works too.

And yeah, people are stubborn and resistant to change, and scared of new twists on old things. Human nature is a beast that way, and holds our whole species back in so many different aspects. Agreed wholeheartedly.
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Carbonatedgravy
04-16-2006, 04:39 AM
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I'm not even sure what people mean by "Lateralus II." Everything on Lateralus was so different from each other that even if they did make Lateralus II I'm not sure how you'd ever recognize it. If it just has to do with spiritual song themes, that could probably happen again.

Ahem, back on topic. I'm wondering if what is turning people off to this song lyrically are the every day trivial words and references, such as TV in particular. But even there, though it can be, TV doesn't need to be taken literally. It's just a representation of distance and seperation. With TV you are literally looking through a filter, and your mind also has a tendency to create a filter when you observe tragedy that isn't your own. This is getting more into psychology now, but I imagine that reacting apathetically to the tragic misfortunes of other people we don't know is no more than a simple defense mechanism designed to keep people happy enough to continue reproducing and expanding the species.
Old 04-16-2006, 04:39 AM   #6
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Re: The lyrics as art

I'm not even sure what people mean by "Lateralus II." Everything on Lateralus was so different from each other that even if they did make Lateralus II I'm not sure how you'd ever recognize it. If it just has to do with spiritual song themes, that could probably happen again.

Ahem, back on topic. I'm wondering if what is turning people off to this song lyrically are the every day trivial words and references, such as TV in particular. But even there, though it can be, TV doesn't need to be taken literally. It's just a representation of distance and seperation. With TV you are literally looking through a filter, and your mind also has a tendency to create a filter when you observe tragedy that isn't your own. This is getting more into psychology now, but I imagine that reacting apathetically to the tragic misfortunes of other people we don't know is no more than a simple defense mechanism designed to keep people happy enough to continue reproducing and expanding the species.
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TheJuiceOfSatan's Avatar TheJuiceOfSatan
04-16-2006, 04:40 AM
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To me this song could some kind of intro to the rest of the songs on the album. Like heres something to think about while i give you all these other thoughts,feelings,emotions, to ponder. Maybe its like the Hush of the album, just making an obvious statement. Things do not always have to be cryptic and subliminal. I'm sure there will be plenty of very thought provoking lyrics on the rest of the album.

And i just noticed something about maynard using vampire as a metaphor.
This paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old - The Patient
White as Dracula as i approach the bottom - APC Weak and Powerless
We all feed on tragedy, its like blood to a vampire - Vicarious

Maybe maynard is a vampire? or a day walker? he he............
Old 04-16-2006, 04:40 AM   #7
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Re: The lyrics as art

To me this song could some kind of intro to the rest of the songs on the album. Like heres something to think about while i give you all these other thoughts,feelings,emotions, to ponder. Maybe its like the Hush of the album, just making an obvious statement. Things do not always have to be cryptic and subliminal. I'm sure there will be plenty of very thought provoking lyrics on the rest of the album.

And i just noticed something about maynard using vampire as a metaphor.
This paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old - The Patient
White as Dracula as i approach the bottom - APC Weak and Powerless
We all feed on tragedy, its like blood to a vampire - Vicarious

Maybe maynard is a vampire? or a day walker? he he............
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Carbonatedgravy
04-16-2006, 04:46 AM
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Oh, he's clearly just a day walker.

At any rate, while obviously nobody knows at this point, I think this song will be highly representative to the tone of the album and probably won't be off in its own little world. There's a reason it was placed at track 1.
Old 04-16-2006, 04:46 AM   #8
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Re: The lyrics as art

Oh, he's clearly just a day walker.

At any rate, while obviously nobody knows at this point, I think this song will be highly representative to the tone of the album and probably won't be off in its own little world. There's a reason it was placed at track 1.
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04-16-2006, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy
I'm not even sure what people mean by "Lateralus II." Everything on Lateralus was so different from each other that even if they did make Lateralus II I'm not sure how you'd ever recognize it. If it just has to do with spiritual song themes, that could probably happen again.

Ahem, back on topic. I'm wondering if what is turning people off to this song lyrically are the every day trivial words and references, such as TV in particular. But even there, though it can be, TV doesn't need to be taken literally. It's just a representation of distance and seperation. With TV you are literally looking through a filter, and your mind also has a tendency to create a filter when you observe tragedy that isn't your own. This is getting more into psychology now, but I imagine that reacting apathetically to the tragic misfortunes of other people we don't know is no more than a simple defense mechanism designed to keep people happy enough to continue reproducing and expanding the species.
So very true. Sometimes watching things on TV creates a detachment from the reality of it. Like it isn't real. Everything on TV is entertainment, or is meant to be, so why not dead bodies and destruction as entertainment? Everyone has a certain morbid fascination or intrigue of disaster, myself included. I live in florida and went through the barrage of hurricanes in 2004. I rode out all three in a mobile home, and survived. I know what it was like for the Hurricane Katrina victims, not specifically, but i know better than most. But joe blow in california had no idea what a hurricane was like. It was like watching a movie. Same thing with 9/11. We've seen so many action movies it simply looked like another stunt for Die Hard or something. People died. People died in the hurricanes. People die every second of every day. You could be next. It's a truth that cannot be denied.
Old 04-16-2006, 04:47 AM   #9
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy
I'm not even sure what people mean by "Lateralus II." Everything on Lateralus was so different from each other that even if they did make Lateralus II I'm not sure how you'd ever recognize it. If it just has to do with spiritual song themes, that could probably happen again.

Ahem, back on topic. I'm wondering if what is turning people off to this song lyrically are the every day trivial words and references, such as TV in particular. But even there, though it can be, TV doesn't need to be taken literally. It's just a representation of distance and seperation. With TV you are literally looking through a filter, and your mind also has a tendency to create a filter when you observe tragedy that isn't your own. This is getting more into psychology now, but I imagine that reacting apathetically to the tragic misfortunes of other people we don't know is no more than a simple defense mechanism designed to keep people happy enough to continue reproducing and expanding the species.
So very true. Sometimes watching things on TV creates a detachment from the reality of it. Like it isn't real. Everything on TV is entertainment, or is meant to be, so why not dead bodies and destruction as entertainment? Everyone has a certain morbid fascination or intrigue of disaster, myself included. I live in florida and went through the barrage of hurricanes in 2004. I rode out all three in a mobile home, and survived. I know what it was like for the Hurricane Katrina victims, not specifically, but i know better than most. But joe blow in california had no idea what a hurricane was like. It was like watching a movie. Same thing with 9/11. We've seen so many action movies it simply looked like another stunt for Die Hard or something. People died. People died in the hurricanes. People die every second of every day. You could be next. It's a truth that cannot be denied.
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A Tad Bit Catatonic's Avatar A Tad Bit Catatonic
04-16-2006, 04:56 AM
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love what I'm reading guys, love it...
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Old 04-16-2006, 04:56 AM   #10
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Re: The lyrics as art

love what I'm reading guys, love it...
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ArizonaBay's Avatar ArizonaBay
04-16-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy
I'm not even sure what people mean by "Lateralus II." Everything on Lateralus was so different from each other that even if they did make Lateralus II I'm not sure how you'd ever recognize it. If it just has to do with spiritual song themes, that could probably happen again.

Ahem, back on topic. I'm wondering if what is turning people off to this song lyrically are the every day trivial words and references, such as TV in particular. But even there, though it can be, TV doesn't need to be taken literally. It's just a representation of distance and seperation. With TV you are literally looking through a filter, and your mind also has a tendency to create a filter when you observe tragedy that isn't your own. This is getting more into psychology now, but I imagine that reacting apathetically to the tragic misfortunes of other people we don't know is no more than a simple defense mechanism designed to keep people happy enough to continue reproducing and expanding the species.
Although i said the opposite in another thread this song is not about reacting apathetically to violence. Its about survival. The universe is hostal because its based on competition, survival of the fittest. We feed off tragedy because its based on a will to survive and compete ourselves "much better you than I". TV is a way to feed this at a safe distance. The song is saying take a step back and think about what is on TV and how it brings home some truths about human nature.
Old 04-16-2006, 05:54 AM   #11
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonatedgravy
I'm not even sure what people mean by "Lateralus II." Everything on Lateralus was so different from each other that even if they did make Lateralus II I'm not sure how you'd ever recognize it. If it just has to do with spiritual song themes, that could probably happen again.

Ahem, back on topic. I'm wondering if what is turning people off to this song lyrically are the every day trivial words and references, such as TV in particular. But even there, though it can be, TV doesn't need to be taken literally. It's just a representation of distance and seperation. With TV you are literally looking through a filter, and your mind also has a tendency to create a filter when you observe tragedy that isn't your own. This is getting more into psychology now, but I imagine that reacting apathetically to the tragic misfortunes of other people we don't know is no more than a simple defense mechanism designed to keep people happy enough to continue reproducing and expanding the species.
Although i said the opposite in another thread this song is not about reacting apathetically to violence. Its about survival. The universe is hostal because its based on competition, survival of the fittest. We feed off tragedy because its based on a will to survive and compete ourselves "much better you than I". TV is a way to feed this at a safe distance. The song is saying take a step back and think about what is on TV and how it brings home some truths about human nature.
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Carbonatedgravy
04-16-2006, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBay
Although i said the opposite in another thread this song is not about reacting apathetically to violence. Its about survival. The universe is hostal because its based on competition, survival of the fittest. We feed off tragedy because its based on a will to survive and compete ourselves "much better you than I". TV is a way to feed this at a safe distance. The song is saying take a step back and think about what is on TV and how it brings home some truths about human nature.
Yeah. I remember you saying that and then I pretty much retaliated with what you're saying now. So, yeah. I obviously sort of agree with you. But even though apathy isn't the central theme of the song, enjoying and being fascinated with violence takes a certain kind of disconnection to the rest of humanity which works similar to apathy. So you basically have the same filter in place, while at the same time, your ability to connect on the most primitive of levels builds the sick thrill that it is to watch people die.
Old 04-16-2006, 01:44 PM   #12
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBay
Although i said the opposite in another thread this song is not about reacting apathetically to violence. Its about survival. The universe is hostal because its based on competition, survival of the fittest. We feed off tragedy because its based on a will to survive and compete ourselves "much better you than I". TV is a way to feed this at a safe distance. The song is saying take a step back and think about what is on TV and how it brings home some truths about human nature.
Yeah. I remember you saying that and then I pretty much retaliated with what you're saying now. So, yeah. I obviously sort of agree with you. But even though apathy isn't the central theme of the song, enjoying and being fascinated with violence takes a certain kind of disconnection to the rest of humanity which works similar to apathy. So you basically have the same filter in place, while at the same time, your ability to connect on the most primitive of levels builds the sick thrill that it is to watch people die.
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04-16-2006, 01:52 PM
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death=pleasure, very true statement. i mean when u watch an action movie and nobody dies tell me how queer is that?
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Old 04-16-2006, 01:52 PM   #13
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Re: The lyrics as art

death=pleasure, very true statement. i mean when u watch an action movie and nobody dies tell me how queer is that?
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JuhaDeWolf's Avatar JuhaDeWolf
04-16-2006, 01:53 PM
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If you dig down deep enough, you may actually find the true meaning. Get away from the television aspect. The television is a metaphor. The song may be about watching TV on the surface, but the song actually touches on topics pertaining to semiotics, specifically hyperreality.

The character that Maynard takes on in this song lives his whole life watching television. He lives vicariously through other people, especially victims of tragedy. The television world is real to him, and this hyperreality makes his life a lie. (If this sounds like The Matrix, you're right, it dealt with the same topics).

In my opinion, Maynard chose to use the television metaphor because it is the most prevalant promoter of this hyperreality. By choosing a specific item, it allowed for him to focus his point.

Here is a good article on hyperreality, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality

I had previously posted this next section, but for some reason it was deleted.

Most of Tools songs (especially those on Lateralus) dealt with the spiritual world, the world beyond this world. But how can one expect to go beyond the real world when they don't even live in it?
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Old 04-16-2006, 01:53 PM   #14
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Re: The lyrics as art

If you dig down deep enough, you may actually find the true meaning. Get away from the television aspect. The television is a metaphor. The song may be about watching TV on the surface, but the song actually touches on topics pertaining to semiotics, specifically hyperreality.

The character that Maynard takes on in this song lives his whole life watching television. He lives vicariously through other people, especially victims of tragedy. The television world is real to him, and this hyperreality makes his life a lie. (If this sounds like The Matrix, you're right, it dealt with the same topics).

In my opinion, Maynard chose to use the television metaphor because it is the most prevalant promoter of this hyperreality. By choosing a specific item, it allowed for him to focus his point.

Here is a good article on hyperreality, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality

I had previously posted this next section, but for some reason it was deleted.

Most of Tools songs (especially those on Lateralus) dealt with the spiritual world, the world beyond this world. But how can one expect to go beyond the real world when they don't even live in it?
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Garguantua's Avatar Garguantua
04-16-2006, 02:33 PM
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I approve of this thread.

Thanks. Glad to know there are people here who are not 15 years old, or perhaps worse, philistines. (I really don't want engage in ageism, because there are some 15 year olds who are quite aware and smart, but the key word is some.)

Much food for thought.

The lyrics are very good, I believe. Better than much of Lateralus. I found Lateralus a bit didactic, and artificial. Very good, but I felt I was being preached to.

This song is honest. Really honest. The best art is honest and un-selfconcious.

I also tend to agree about the original poster's ideas about minimalism and impressionism. They can be very effective, if the artist is totally open and interested in feelings more than thinking.

Anyways...just my two cents.
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:33 PM   #15
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Re: The lyrics as art

I approve of this thread.

Thanks. Glad to know there are people here who are not 15 years old, or perhaps worse, philistines. (I really don't want engage in ageism, because there are some 15 year olds who are quite aware and smart, but the key word is some.)

Much food for thought.

The lyrics are very good, I believe. Better than much of Lateralus. I found Lateralus a bit didactic, and artificial. Very good, but I felt I was being preached to.

This song is honest. Really honest. The best art is honest and un-selfconcious.

I also tend to agree about the original poster's ideas about minimalism and impressionism. They can be very effective, if the artist is totally open and interested in feelings more than thinking.

Anyways...just my two cents.
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04-16-2006, 02:42 PM
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Hey I'll take those two cents instead of my paycheck.

The people who think the lyrics are too straightforward probbably thought the snowstorm in Native Son was just snow.
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:42 PM   #16
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Re: The lyrics as art

Hey I'll take those two cents instead of my paycheck.

The people who think the lyrics are too straightforward probbably thought the snowstorm in Native Son was just snow.
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BlueSecondSun's Avatar BlueSecondSun
04-16-2006, 02:49 PM
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I am in fact 16 years of age. I' don't post often. I don't post much at all. However I've been reading these boards for a long time. It is sadly true that MOST of the topics in this forum are started by inane ass lamps who are trying to go somewhere in their rambling incoherence. However, it is threads like these that remind me of why I enjoy TOOL fans like you. You guys are the TOOL fans who know what appreciation of all aspects of music and thinking are. It's so hard to find the people like you. I love reading all of the input in threads like these. The threads that actually propose new ideas and thoughts. Let us all absorb TOOL's new music as a gift. It is. We have been waiting, and we WILL be rewarded.

Love, Light, and positive thinking to all.


P.s. This thread is the shit.
Old 04-16-2006, 02:49 PM   #17
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Re: The lyrics as art

I am in fact 16 years of age. I' don't post often. I don't post much at all. However I've been reading these boards for a long time. It is sadly true that MOST of the topics in this forum are started by inane ass lamps who are trying to go somewhere in their rambling incoherence. However, it is threads like these that remind me of why I enjoy TOOL fans like you. You guys are the TOOL fans who know what appreciation of all aspects of music and thinking are. It's so hard to find the people like you. I love reading all of the input in threads like these. The threads that actually propose new ideas and thoughts. Let us all absorb TOOL's new music as a gift. It is. We have been waiting, and we WILL be rewarded.

Love, Light, and positive thinking to all.


P.s. This thread is the shit.
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A Tad Bit Catatonic's Avatar A Tad Bit Catatonic
04-16-2006, 04:44 PM
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I am glad to see our species is not doomed afterall - I'm 26 By the way. Well a few of you guys in this post I always have a good feeling seeing your avatars and reading your posts. I have just noticed Maynard going the minimalistic route, especially with APC - Thirteenth Step, was especially so, I find. I really enjoy it too - it is beautiful to me, and obviously a conscious idea and thought. And of course it is going to carry over (somewhat at least) to the next thing he is doing. I also think it has to do with his wisdom growing as he ages, and just his whole mentality as an artist being refined. And the writing process for his lyrics has come pretty fast with this one, it's been what a year? Hell less?? since *cough cough* I dare not speak it hehe. There's also the whole Jungian dynamic in there. I mean you can hear he is definitely back to his masculine Toolish alter ego, on the machine gun lyrics especially... By the way his phrasing and placement of melodies, and other techniques on this song, are out of this world. The lyrics are just cake - he could be singing "I smoke crack, I smoke crack", and it would sound... well, almost as good. Anyway more than anything else, I want to see some more ideas here. Once in a while you just get a good thread.
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Last edited by A Tad Bit Catatonic; 04-16-2006 at 04:49 PM..
Old 04-16-2006, 04:44 PM   #18
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Re: The lyrics as art

I am glad to see our species is not doomed afterall - I'm 26 By the way. Well a few of you guys in this post I always have a good feeling seeing your avatars and reading your posts. I have just noticed Maynard going the minimalistic route, especially with APC - Thirteenth Step, was especially so, I find. I really enjoy it too - it is beautiful to me, and obviously a conscious idea and thought. And of course it is going to carry over (somewhat at least) to the next thing he is doing. I also think it has to do with his wisdom growing as he ages, and just his whole mentality as an artist being refined. And the writing process for his lyrics has come pretty fast with this one, it's been what a year? Hell less?? since *cough cough* I dare not speak it hehe. There's also the whole Jungian dynamic in there. I mean you can hear he is definitely back to his masculine Toolish alter ego, on the machine gun lyrics especially... By the way his phrasing and placement of melodies, and other techniques on this song, are out of this world. The lyrics are just cake - he could be singing "I smoke crack, I smoke crack", and it would sound... well, almost as good. Anyway more than anything else, I want to see some more ideas here. Once in a while you just get a good thread.
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Bob_Marley_Wannabe
04-16-2006, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Tad Bit Catatonic
Remember it is "Art rock" - not death metal, or math metal, or anything else. Which also makes it a lasting creation, and gives it validity for a long time to come, just like a Rembrandt or something.

quoted for truth
Old 04-16-2006, 05:07 PM   #19
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Tad Bit Catatonic
Remember it is "Art rock" - not death metal, or math metal, or anything else. Which also makes it a lasting creation, and gives it validity for a long time to come, just like a Rembrandt or something.

quoted for truth
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A Tad Bit Catatonic's Avatar A Tad Bit Catatonic
04-16-2006, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum
I think the fact that this song is directed at the mentality of the average television watching American is a perfect reason why they released this as their single.
Maynard wants everyone to hear how cynical he has become regarding this nation, and so he has made a beautiful song to convey that emotion to the masses.
Perfect.
Damn good idea... The Tool approach to mass marketing. Every listen comes with a free middle finger. Sounds about right... I love the theory =)
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Old 04-16-2006, 05:23 PM   #20
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum
I think the fact that this song is directed at the mentality of the average television watching American is a perfect reason why they released this as their single.
Maynard wants everyone to hear how cynical he has become regarding this nation, and so he has made a beautiful song to convey that emotion to the masses.
Perfect.
Damn good idea... The Tool approach to mass marketing. Every listen comes with a free middle finger. Sounds about right... I love the theory =)
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ArizonaBay's Avatar ArizonaBay
04-17-2006, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuhaDeWolf
If you dig down deep enough, you may actually find the true meaning. Get away from the television aspect. The television is a metaphor. The song may be about watching TV on the surface, but the song actually touches on topics pertaining to semiotics, specifically hyperreality.

The character that Maynard takes on in this song lives his whole life watching television. He lives vicariously through other people, especially victims of tragedy. The television world is real to him, and this hyperreality makes his life a lie. (If this sounds like The Matrix, you're right, it dealt with the same topics).

In my opinion, Maynard chose to use the television metaphor because it is the most prevalant promoter of this hyperreality. By choosing a specific item, it allowed for him to focus his point.

Here is a good article on hyperreality, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality

I had previously posted this next section, but for some reason it was deleted.

Most of Tools songs (especially those on Lateralus) dealt with the spiritual world, the world beyond this world. But how can one expect to go beyond the real world when they don't even live in it?
Best post on Vicarious so far. TV violence is a good example of hyperreality, death without consequence.
Old 04-17-2006, 02:17 AM   #21
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Re: The lyrics as art

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuhaDeWolf
If you dig down deep enough, you may actually find the true meaning. Get away from the television aspect. The television is a metaphor. The song may be about watching TV on the surface, but the song actually touches on topics pertaining to semiotics, specifically hyperreality.

The character that Maynard takes on in this song lives his whole life watching television. He lives vicariously through other people, especially victims of tragedy. The television world is real to him, and this hyperreality makes his life a lie. (If this sounds like The Matrix, you're right, it dealt with the same topics).

In my opinion, Maynard chose to use the television metaphor because it is the most prevalant promoter of this hyperreality. By choosing a specific item, it allowed for him to focus his point.

Here is a good article on hyperreality, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality

I had previously posted this next section, but for some reason it was deleted.

Most of Tools songs (especially those on Lateralus) dealt with the spiritual world, the world beyond this world. But how can one expect to go beyond the real world when they don't even live in it?
Best post on Vicarious so far. TV violence is a good example of hyperreality, death without consequence.
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