Do you think Maynard ever got away from whatever this song is about? Rather you think it's heroin, his son, himself, or whatever, I want to know if you think he gotten away from the subject he couldn't stand being with- or did he just accept it because he couldn't do anything about it? Uh, let's keep this proof through lyrics only, so we don't get creepy stalkers on here.
I say this mainly because, after reading the lyrics to Jambi, I've been able to kind of relate the two. If his wants and needs are dividing him, I see that as holding him back; if he's too connected to slip away, to fade away, and is dying because of it, I see that as also holding him back.
So . . . Did he ever get away? I'm leaning toward yes, because of the end of Pushit and the entire transcendental feel of the Lateralus CD. But, you know, thought I'd put an interesting question out there.
My personal take is heroin and I believe you are spot on. I think he definitely got away from it. Or at least accepted whatever part of him this song is about. Maybe not in 1996 when it was released, but he seems to have grown a lot. Their whole strive and excellence went into the lateralus sort of explosion of self discovery like you've already stated.
__________________ Scars are souvenirs you never lose
The amount of posts I have has nothing to do with my age. Being called and idiot doesn't exactly hurt my feelings but if you'd care to elaborate on how you KNOW for sure he never used heroin. It's impossible to know for sure, just my personal take on the song, I have a thread explaining why I believe it's about opiates.
__________________ Scars are souvenirs you never lose
Maynard would not do crack...psychadelics have always been their forte...
besides their first album was opiate, opium and heroin are made from the same plant
the difference is the method of procurement...silly billy
Idiot.....the title Opiate had nothing to do with them doing opiates. It was based on the figure of speech "the opiate of the masses" related to organized religion.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
The amount of posts I have has nothing to do with my age. Being called and idiot doesn't exactly hurt my feelings but if you'd care to elaborate on how you KNOW for sure he never used heroin. It's impossible to know for sure, just my personal take on the song, I have a thread explaining why I believe it's about opiates.
Because I was chillin in his ranch in Arizona drinkin wine and doing lines and I offered him some and he said no.
If you really knew much or had been around long enough, you would know that the band is not a bunch of herion uses...dumbass
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
There's that cynicism again INNER, non heroin users usually don't elude to the use of
the drug, or the use of opiates. I know the saying religion is the opiate of the masses but that is the masses problem. are you a fuckin cop?
No I'm not a cop, far from it actually. Although I am guilty of being cynical as well as having some common sense. I'll leave it at that.
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Yeah I think he got away from 'it'
Cuz of the whole "Crucify the Ego" thing from Reflection, reflecting on 'it'
I also see his slightly getting over it but its still raw in 46 and 2
"I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own confused
And insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in
My shadow.
Change is coming through my shadow.
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking my scabs again"
I don't know what's worse, the fact that you felt compelled to have to write *sigh* or the simple fact that you don't know the difference between a joke and a 'real' post. maybe you should remove the black shirt for a while and start thinking critically.
Its sad how kids only come here to bitch and whine at each other, as if because we're all tool fans we should be fighting. You would think tool fans are the most balanced and serene, yet, these forums are proof otherwise.
But back to the topic. I like to believe he integrated whatever was burdening him at the time.
Inner-Eulogy.. I have been around and followed their career. I know what you are saying of course they are not strung out on heroin. That's not the point. The point was it is possible to use it or have used it in the past, without being full on junkies in the public eye. Many people lived opiated lives without being street junkies. I don't ever believe he was into shooting up heroin and it was destroying his life. But it's possible that he was smoking/snorting/shooting heroin for a period of time and realized he was falling into it.
Regardless you could be absolutely right and he has never in his life done heroin it just happens to be my take on the song and if you read my post you will find out why it's my belief.
Just to be clear here, I am agreeing with you that it's obvious they are not a band strung out on heroin. However having a short lived romance with the substance and not a long term addiction is viable. Could you tell just by looking at him that he's done Acid?
Hey very true Oneeye, good point. Its not as though people have neon signs around them saying "ooh ooh, i'm a drug user!".
*covertly switches off power from my own neon sign*
yeah...
You seen nothing, nothing...
I don't know what's worse, the fact that you felt compelled to have to write *sigh* or the simple fact that you don't know the difference between a joke and a 'real' post. maybe you should remove the black shirt for a while and start thinking critically.
Ya' know what else is funny, the fact that you felt compelled to comment on my *sigh*...maybe you should look into the mirror my friend. And I attest as the lyrics say "frown out your one face, but with the other..."
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
Inner-Eulogy.. I have been around and followed their career. I know what you are saying of course they are not strung out on heroin. That's not the point. The point was it is possible to use it or have used it in the past, without being full on junkies in the public eye. Many people lived opiated lives without being street junkies. I don't ever believe he was into shooting up heroin and it was destroying his life. But it's possible that he was smoking/snorting/shooting heroin for a period of time and realized he was falling into it.
Regardless you could be absolutely right and he has never in his life done heroin it just happens to be my take on the song and if you read my post you will find out why it's my belief.
Just to be clear here, I am agreeing with you that it's obvious they are not a band strung out on heroin. However having a short lived romance with the substance and not a long term addiction is viable. Could you tell just by looking at him that he's done Acid?
Point taken. Although he has openly admitted to doing acid.
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Re: Do you think he ever got away . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_Eulogy
Idiot.....the title Opiate had nothing to do with them doing opiates. It was based on the figure of speech "the opiate of the masses" related to organized religion.
truthfully when i saw cover design for "Opiate" fist thing that comes to mind is "Drugs" How quick we are to stereotype, music, bands, people just to satisfy our own curiosity and well being. But i have learned Tool itself ihas cryptic meanings behing many of their songs. lick like "Eyeballs Deep in Muddy Waters"
I thought they were just lying, but a great way to say it.. Have you evea heard the saying "You're so full of shit yer Eyes are brown." And then thery're others think its bout' "Anal Sex" alrighty then....wel we all interpret in own way.....
__________________ A cat's urine glows under black light.
( I wonder who was paid to figure that out?)
k/p
Last edited by dj_philharmonic; 12-13-2007 at 02:36 PM..
Reason: syntax
He experimented with it for a period I think (long enough to get withdrawl). Any opioid causes a hell of a withdrawal. I know this primarily because I have an aunt who was convicted of smuggling heroin from Thailand in the 70's (she used it too, but has been clean for 30+ years), has described it all to me in detail. She is very successful these days, financially and otherwise. Sort of like Maynard is, so it can be pulled off. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate.
Like the initial post says, you can find the meaning of the song by comparing/contrasting it with Jambi, and 13th Step (Primarily The Package/Gravity combo, and the journey in between those songs). It is about both drug addiction (and everything else addiction) pulling him down into the "Undertow" (another reference to his "shadow" acting up), and the birth/realization of his son "lifting him back up to the sun/son", and making him want to "choose to live". You listen to 13th Step, you know Maynard has participated in some heavy duty chemical experimentation. This is not an uncommon (albeit cliche) thing for genuine artistic minded, and even intellectual people to do. To explore other facets of themselves, ala "The Doors of Perception".
I will not spare you all a line by line breakdown this time.
H.
What's coming through is alive. - (extreme sense of drug-induced wellbeing)
What's holding up is a mirror. - (reflection on the experience, and/or Devo causing him to think about what he's doing - probably both, maybe even also a "lines on the mirror" metaphore here - triple entendre like in "The Pot")
But what's singing songs is a snake looking to turn this piss to wine. - (again extreme, but false sense of well being induced by opioids/stimulants primarily)
They're both totally void of hate, but killing me just the same. - (H is one of the "both", and this is a Jungian reference to how humans are the only things that have a "shadow", not drugs, but they will kill you just the same)
The snake behind me hisses what my damage could have been. - (he is reflecting on how the "sin" or the addiction could have at worst killed him)
My blood before me begs meopen up my heart again. - (possible double entendre of blood in the syringe, and Devo being his blood, and the profound feelings these things caused him to have)
And I feel this coming over like a storm again. - (possible double entendre of the rush induced by H, and the addiction taking hold)
considerately. - (* sense of drug induced well being eventually leads to addiction, and sustaining more damage or possibly death from use of the drug, I will not repeat this one - it means the same thing every time)
Venomous voice, tempts me, drains me, bleeds me, leaves me cracked and empty. - (withdrawal from opioids is incredibly painful, negatively mind altering, and the shits, literally)
Drags me down like some sweet gravity. - (continued use/addiction causes eventual clinical depression or worse, but sure does feel good while you're doing it)
The snake behind me hisses what my damage could have been.
My blood before me begs me open up my heart again. And I feel this coming over like a storm again. - (already explained these)
I am too connected to you to slip away, to fade away. - (he kicked the use/addiction because of Devo)
Days away I still feel you touching me, changing me, and considerately killing me. - (withdrawal from opioids, again, is a bitch - 2 weeks at least for major symptoms to pass, then maybe 6 more months to up to 2 years for residual side effects to pass)
Without the skin, beneath the storm, under these tears the walls came down. - (he is incredibly strong to kick it, and come out with his humanity intact)
And the snake is drowned and as I look in his eyes, my fear begins to fade recalling all of those times. - (done, clean, will never touch it again, has won the battle with the snake "addiction and/or H", can't believe where he was headed, and what it would have done to himself and his loved ones)
I could have cried then. I should have cried then. And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes my fear begins to fade recalling all of the times I have died and will die. - (Devo has become his real addiction, and there is something about the collective consciousness and how it relates to father/son going on here, I think)
It's all right. I don't mind. I am too connected to you to slip away, to fade away. Days away I still feel you touching me, changing me, and considerately killing me. - (a bit of a reiteration on the whole experience - he actually misses it some, it felt good at the time, but the overall negative impact and eventual implications the experience had were/are not worth it)
It is heroin I personally believe, but he pulled out of it for good all on his own will (it takes a hell of a strong person to do that, and they are rare). It's about how his experiences with heroin relate to Devo, and vice versa - "he chose to live" (Jambi filled in the pieces for me, as well as 13th Step (especially Gravity) is another part of the puzzle). "The snake" is of course a religious symbol for temptation and sin. I think the lyrics are made purposefully so vague, enigmatic, and cryptically metaphorical to avoid deriving a definitive meaning from. Primarily, because he didn't want things to happen eventually like kids at school telling Devo, "Your dad is/was a heroin addict".
I know there has been a raging debate on this song for years, and alot will probably scoff at this. And I know some of you guys already have this theory. I just thought I would lay it out as concisely as I could. Just my take on it.
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Last edited by A Tad Bit Catatonic; 03-22-2008 at 09:22 PM..
Opiate is another dual meaning word, both the drug reference and the religious reference are correct.
The title for Opiate is derived from a Marx quote: "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes". Translated to English, it means "Religion is opiate for the masses". Which is a slight at religion saying how having religion to fall back on gives you a false sense of well being, just like the real thing. Or less negative in context, it just means "having faith makes you feel good". I am not religious, nor am I anti-religious. Just thought I would fill in the blanks for anyone who wasn't clear on this. I know most of you are.
Before an early demo performance of H. - one of the first times ever heard by the public - Maynard came out and introduced the song as "Half-empty." The title was later changed to H.
"Without the skin, beneath the storm, under these tears the walls came down. - (he is incredibly strong to kick it, and come out with his humanity intact)" ---- How do you come up with this? How do walls have anything to do with Heroin?
Seems like a case of "the meaning of this song is outside my reality so I'll overlook very obvious incongruencies because they can't exist in my mind."
Before an early demo performance of H. - one of the first times ever heard by the public - Maynard came out and introduced the song as "Half-empty." The title was later changed to H.
"Without the skin, beneath the storm, under these tears the walls came down. - (he is incredibly strong to kick it, and come out with his humanity intact)" ---- How do you come up with this? How do walls have anything to do with Heroin?
Seems like a case of "the meaning of this song is outside my reality so I'll overlook very obvious incongruencies because they can't exist in my mind."
Like I said, I think the song is written so cryptically on purpose that you can't derive the full meaning from it - it's the only song in their catalogue I'm unable to get a halfway decent interpretation out of (aside from the fillers).
The lyric you question me about is probably not to be taken literally. When you feel good (as opiates can induce you to feel) you let your guard down (your walls) and become more emotional. The skin is his "self", and his humanity, the storm is the addiction, the tears are caused by the pain of him breaking the addiction, and the walls are emotional barriers that he is overcoming by using the drug and then stopping the usage - I would guess that is what he is saying there, but it's just my theory.
If it were entitled H for Half empty, that could be another one of Maynard's famous oh so eloquent and poetic double entendre's, because withdrawal from heroin leaves you feeling, at the very best - "Half empty". Thanks for that bit of info, it is a great insight to the song.
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Last edited by A Tad Bit Catatonic; 03-25-2008 at 12:37 AM..
"Without the skin (protection, gaurd, things we hide behind), beneath the storm (trials and tribulations), under these tears (pain and suffering from becoming vulnerable) the walls came down (we let our gaurd down and are no longer trapped and barricaded)."
This whole song can be applied to drugs, fatherhood, behavioral problems, or any other issue that leaves you half empty.
You have to be cautious when taking the mans poetry too literally...
__________________ Tough Times Never Last, Tough People Do!
Before an early demo performance of H. - one of the first times ever heard by the public - Maynard came out and introduced the song as "Half-empty." The title was later changed to H.
"Without the skin, beneath the storm, under these tears the walls came down. - (he is incredibly strong to kick it, and come out with his humanity intact)" ---- How do you come up with this? How do walls have anything to do with Heroin?
Seems like a case of "the meaning of this song is outside my reality so I'll overlook very obvious incongruencies because they can't exist in my mind."
Yeah well and during another live performance right before playing the song he said something about his son's middle name/initial being H and asked if the audience had any kids in order to reference what the song was about.
So....
__________________ "WITHOUT A LITTLE EVIL, GOOD WOULD NEVER EXIST"
