I was 12 years old when 'all this shit when down' so yeah, I was potty-trained. His fans loved Kurt. The rest of the world didn't really give a damn. It's not fair to say he was weak- he had emotional problems. There's a difference.
He had them ever since he was a little kid, and they are what killed him.
Insecurity, self-hatred, paranoia.
If you've read his Journals, it's pretty plain why he died.
And it doesn't have that much to do with being a junkie. Yes, he was an addict. But he was an addict because of his problems. They're the root of everything.
Indirectly, maybe, Courtney did her part to kill him, but it wasn't deliberate, it was just the same thing that everyone else did- refuse to see what was really wrong with him.
__________________ Chornyi-
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/meerkat/
RISHLOO- http://www.rishloo.com
*Adopted by peachyyy- my new mom!!!*
hogpile stated his opinion (short: I hate her)
I stated mine (maybe....just Maybe....she's not satan......maybe...just Maybe....you can try to look at it from her prospective...and listen to a few songs before you say she was a talentless whore....that's all....)
now again....you'll say I'm hysterical...ofcourse.
I was 12 years old when 'all this shit when down' so yeah, I was potty-trained. His fans loved Kurt. The rest of the world didn't really give a damn. It's not fair to say he was weak- he had emotional problems. There's a difference.
He had them ever since he was a little kid, and they are what killed him.
Insecurity, self-hatred, paranoia.
If you've read his Journals, it's pretty plain why he died.
And it doesn't have that much to do with being a junkie. Yes, he was an addict. But he was an addict because of his problems. They're the root of everything.
Indirectly, maybe, Courtney did her part to kill him, but it wasn't deliberate, it was just the same thing that everyone else did- refuse to see what was really wrong with him.
<sigh>
Every addict's problems stem from shit they had wrong in the first place. That's no secret to anyone, nor is it any excuse. Are you trying to tell me that Kurt and other heroin junkies make rational decisions, regardless of the fucking dream world, fucking cloud they're living in? Really, really high. Really, really, really fucking low. That's your emotional status on drugs, any questions? Especially H. Shooters don't say it's better than sex for nothing.
Maybe if Kurt and Courtney had given more of a fuck about their child, marriage, careers, and themselves, and less about sticking a needle in their arms, things could've worked out ok in the end. Maybe Kurt could've realized he's not the only one in the world with anemia, a whore for a wife, and a self esteem problem. Maybe Courtney could've realized that me farting in a toilet bowl musters up the same amount of talent and effort as her music. Maybe they both could've realized that there is no easy answers or solutions in life, people right across the street from you probably don't have shit compared to you, and regardless drugs don't make it all go away. And for fuck's sake, there's my child in her crib while I'm juicing my veins, maybe this shit ain't working for me.
A little rehab, a little medication, a little time away from the dope sickness, who the fuck knows what Kurt could be doing now. Whatever the fuck he wanted, probably.
In short: Do I love some of what Kurt brought into this world? Sure. Did he have every right to blow his brains out, because he was too chickenshit to face life? Sure, it's his life. Just like I have every right to say it was chickenshit. But don't sit here and preach Cobainism to me, like his suicide was any more disheartening or sad, than some teenager down the street blowing his brains out because of the same shit. And definitely don't sit here and make it sound like it's the "world's fault". Fuck that shit. The world/life's a bitch. Everyone has to deal with it. You want to put a pistol to your head sometimes, I'm sure you're not alone. And if you pull the trigger, you won't be the first. But that doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a fucking coward. Kurt was someone special in life, but in the way he chose death, he became a coward, and the world has plenty of those.
I can't really argue with what you've said about Kurt/heroin except I still think it's cruel to call him a chickenshit or a coward. He was in pain.
Someone who is so scared to perform because he thinks the people won't like him, who won't believe it when everyone tells him they do love him- that's someone in agony. I guess he wasn't strong enough to go on, and he didn't feel that he was going to be successful in fighting the way he felt day after day.
So maybe he made the choice that it would be worse for Frances to find out what he was really like then for her to lose him when she was too young to really remember anything but happy times.
Anyway, I'm not going to go on with this because obviously you have your opinions and I have mone and they're never going to agree. And yeah, I would feel the same about anyone in that kind of pain who did what he did. I have someone in my family who tried to take the same way out- luckily he was too much of a 'coward' to actually pull the trigger. But who knows if he will be next time? So it's kind of personal.
__________________ Chornyi-
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/meerkat/
RISHLOO- http://www.rishloo.com
*Adopted by peachyyy- my new mom!!!*
Maybe Courtney could've realized that me farting in a toilet bowl musters up the same amount of talent and effort as her music.
Pretty on the Inside, her debut, was called "the most compelling album of the year" by The New Yorker in 1991 and was recorded with Hole before she met Cobain—a fact worth noting since it is often said that he masterminded her music. But while Pretty on the Inside is a good album, Live Through This, which was released four days after Cobain's suicide, is a seminal work in alternative music made by women.
I don't think you're giving her a chance...... a guy I know that hates her guts....admited that live through this is a grunge masterpiece
hogpile stated his opinion (short: I hate her)
I stated mine (maybe....just Maybe....she's not satan......maybe...just Maybe....you can try to look at it from her prospective...and listen to a few songs before you say she was a talentless whore....that's all....)
now again....you'll say I'm hysterical...ofcourse.
I never said you were hysterical, relax! You don't even know the woman! You're just some over-analyzing fan who knows every detail the media lets loose on her.
Oh, and you didn't state an opinion with that...you were trying to change his opinion.
__________________ Do you serve a purpose? or purposely serve?
I never said you were hysterical, relax! You don't even know the woman! You're just some over-analyzing fan who knows every detail the media lets loose on her.
omg........ I never saw that obssesive side of my self
Thank you ...oh great master of telepathy
I like the music she made....she did some funny shit...and some horrible shit...
well....I don't really care
she hits some string in me and I like it..... obviously that's a crime
Quote:
Oh, and you didn't state an opinion with that...you were trying to change his opinion.
My opinion: courtney love is not satan, and her music is good
I'd actually want to hear what you have to say...although you're a dick...at least you are a great writer...and maybe I can learn something new......not that it matters
Fuck Courtney Love and her self perpetuating melodrama bullshit.
There has been a lot of bullshit posted in this thread, and I think it can be boiled down to this one line. Courtney Love does not deserve a thing from Nirvana or any of their fans. Especially emotional support, which she has been after like a leech from day one.
__________________ I've done the the math enough to know the dangers of a second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication
Anyone taking advantage of the opportunity to improve matters to me, I just don't think that improving matters at all to you.
.....right.......
__________________ I've done the the math enough to know the dangers of a second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication
Anyone taking advantage of the opportunity to improve matters to me, I just don't think that improving matters at all to you.
If peachyyy wouldn't mind would you mind showing us how this could be bettered.....?
__________________ I've done the the math enough to know the dangers of a second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication
You didn't even include the junky life. No needles, no downs, nothing.
Ok, the first line is horrible. That gives me the impression that this is a comical poem. Most serious poems are not about hairdryers. Use emotion in the first line to grab attention.
She will break from what?
the .-. isn't a good addition. I don't think it works well.
Why wouldn't you want to let her go? You cover nothing about the emotions these two share. You're just doing disconnected events, throughout the whole thing, and nothing really emotion evoking or incredibly descriptive.
The silence falls between them worked well.
How is he gone? What did he do, just walk away? Did he kill himself? What? (Yes I know he killed himself, but you don't talk about what)
She's drowned in a pool of tears, well, from what? Again, nothing behind the words.
What promise did he break?
Why will she kill everything?
The thorns .... full .... of blood does NOT work. The strange punctuation is an e.e. cummings trick and he did it to experiment with how it appeared on the page. If you want to add pauses, do line breaks. They work better. make them seperate stanzas. Whole seperate poems. But not dots, they detract from it, and seem cliche.
You don't talk about him being headless before the last stanza. No hints at his suicidal impulses whatever.
This handily earns the first D i've ever had to give out. I feel that the poem would aid from (A) More metaphor/simile, (B) More emotional description, and (C) More description of what goes on between the two characters to cause them to interact in such a fashion.
And considering the topic matter, this shouldn't be that hard.
Honestly, I agree with McPheezy. That is absolute shit, ESPECIALLY considering the topic. She wasn't the bloody fucking victim, and considering her current status in life, it looks like he was the victim of her attention whoring. And I don't know that much about Nirvana/what happened, but that's what she strikes me as. A fucking attention whore. I know a lot of them
Junkie love is dependent. Junkie love isn't love, it's absolute necessity that the other person is there.
Go watch Requiem for a Dream, and tell me if you see them any differently.
