You have an intimate understanding of that.......don't you?

fucking a right!

Wow, I haven't posted on these boards in years.

In any case, I would submit that all Tool albums share Maynard's lyrical talent of addressing a subject in a way that brings up the topic but oftentimes forms a nebulous stance on the subject (The Patient, et cetera). This vagueness causes a person to identify with their own thoughts and feelings on the subject, rather than those dictated by the author. You identify the song with what -you- feel, not what Maynard does.

All must admit that humanity seeks formulae and math--we want THE answer, not AN answer, and therefore seek to know what THE meaning of Lateralus is, such that there is an absolute correct, rather than accepting that each member of the audience's interpretation is viable. Knowing one is absolutely right is a safety and security we all enjoy when we can, and also verifies our own thoughts to ourselves.

The ambiguity of Tool's lyrics are one of the engaging traits of the music -- one is free not only to discuss what a song means, but more what it means -to them-.

shut the fuck up.

well said. I agree

Everyone should stop with these factual opinions about the album, because we're supposed to have our own interpretations of what the album means to us. I'm getting pretty sick of two hundred threads per day saying "you're all wrong, this is what the album means."

i fully agree

that seems like an unfairly quick extrapolation. further more does it hurt you to let people expiriment with it? or do you just need to exert intellectual superiority over others? But thanks for your authoritative and condescending opinion

Hey...you are free to look for hidden meaning in your cheerios all you want...and I am free to point out what the band has said themselves....knock yourself out, kid.

I'm not the one with blood on my hands. Is it wrong to oppose enablers of murderers? Is it wrong to passionately oppose those who destroy what you love? It ain't a grudge, idiot. Die in a fire.

I don't think any of that is wrong. What I think is wrong is attacking someone who holds the same view as you for no reason at all. Then telling them to kill themselves. Then telling them to repeatedly die. Sounds like a grudge to me; one that has no foundation.

Does someone who believes that Charles Manson is evil hold a grudge against Charles Manson? Does one who believes the Nazis ideology and tactics earn them a spot on the list of people that are better off dead constitute a person holding a grudge?

I don't even understand that. What does that have to do with me?

could you possibly explain this in a piechart or graph

im lost you see

; )

I don't like apologist slime.

Who have I apologized for and when? Back up your claims. I keep asking you to do this and you just keep telling me to "kill myself" and to "die in a fire".

Wow man nice post.....agree with you all the way,this is how i am starting to view the ulbam

...and he avoids the question again. Tune in next time when mulhollanddriven tells me to "die in a fire".

same bat time same bat channel.

This album is very dark, pure and human compared to the spiritual rise that is Lateralus. I pretty much agree.

I agree, this album is pretty straight-foreward. The only thing that leaves me digging deeper into the meening is Rosetta Stoned, but i think flux nailed that in his "fluxaperation". What part of NOLA are you from? I'm from the uptown area, but lived in lower St. Bernard nearly all of my life. Damage there is pretty much as bad as it gets (lakeview is pretty catastrophic too.)

CHoke. Better?

fuck analyzing this record. Your all kidding yourselves. Just listen to the music like tool intended.

Thank God someone said that at last!!!!!......lol the bill hicks joke is legendary, there aint no hidden message, you guys have just got caught up with coincidences

i've begun to think of tool's progression in terms of an ancient chinese proverb:

first there is a mountain
then there is no mountain
then there is a mountain

my take on that proverb, which i'm sure will draw some fire from the people who hate it when something means something to somebody, is that it's about "enlightenment." (a weighted term, to be sure.. i hesitate to even use it.. but to clarify, i'm not talking about something incredibly deep and mystical.. but rather a concrete, experiential state of *understanding*. once a buddha was asked "are you god?" to which he replied "no." "well then what are you?" "i am awake." but i digress.)

when one begins on the path, be it by way of meditation, magick, drugs, whathaveyou, it is a struggle. the earliest music tool made was filled with anger and rage at the world (songs like "jerk-off," "intolerance," etc.), and the same anger turned inward (songs like "undertow," "flood," etc.). the early steps to "enlightenment" are like climbing a mountain. of course the logical mind realizes that the goal of climbing a mountain is to reach the peak. this is that state of "enlightenment." when you reach this state, it is as if "there is no mountain." but one cannot operate in this state.

upon reaching the summit, one must return to earthly matters. once again, the mountain is there.

tool reached the summit with lateralus. 10000 days is a return to somewhat more mundane subjects, but it is colored by the experience of the mountaintop.

i'm sure this post will be attacked by some as pretentious, but i assure you i'm not trying to come off as better than anybody. i don't think i possess any secrets to the mystery of life, or any such silliness. this is just my take on things.


and for the record, i have never attempted to find any numerological significance to "lateralus" or listened to it in any order besides the one on the cd, and i have not taken any psychedelics drugs in many years.

No, not really. I was hoping you were going to grow a pair and back up your accusations. But you just keep coming back with these third grade responses. If you are so self righteous in your crusade to slander and insult me, you must have a reason. The only hint of a reason that I can determine from your posts is that I am a "war apologist". But I have repeatedly stated again and again, that I am 100% against the war, have marched against the war on multiple occasions, and was even part of an effort to get people to register to vote before the last election so Bush would go down in flames. Now, what part of that makes me a war apologist? Our entire discourse is on this thread and the Murdoch one, so it would be easy for you to cite your evidence. I gave up on this argument in the last thread because I figured you were about 13 or 15 years old. Then I found this thread that you even started and realized that not only are you not 15, but you are apparently a college graduate and are capable of writing complete sentences. So in the spirit of being an educated person with the ability to make a claim and back it up with some kind of evidence, how about you explain to me why I continue to be the recipient of so much of your venom. It is a very simple question.

I think a lot of people have a misconception of who Tool are and what they stand for.

Very Good interpertation of Tool's Progression.
I think lots of Tool's fans need to become aquainted with the notions of "Free Will." Tool has a right to be angry, sad, and depressed along like the rest of the world. Humans have become obessed with material possesions, forgot about each other and the greater good. Many annoying Tool fans on this board remind me of....

"Silly Monkeys... Cuttin our love right in two"

I wouldn't say their other albums had "hidden messages" as such. lateralus in particular (since that's the one most likely to attract the 'hidden message' label) was quite a direct album, just dealing with more abstruse subject matter that quite a few tool listeners were unfamiliar with. The same is true in different ways and to different degrees with the two prior albums.

Ten thousand days is unique in that it is has the directness, but by re-visiting certain themes (lyrically and musically) they point the way clearer. And I think that's where the strength of OP's point lies- blues music relied on usic stock chord progressions and simple, to-the-point, real-life lyrics so that what came through was the emotion, the pain (as OP pointed out).

That's what I think they did with this album- they stripped away some of their pomp and circumstance, but left it complex and thoughtful enough that it is still, undoubtedly, a tool record. At the same time, it is a blues record.

Does that mean that the songs are all what you get at face value? I don't think so. I think tool have made a more conscious effort to provide an accesible surface meaning to the songs, while weaving in their own variations and subtleties to be appreciated as we grow more familiar with the material.

So, basically it is a blues record, and it is also a tool record. If you want to take it at face value, then do that, but if you want to look deeper, do that too, because even if it wasn't intended, there's nothing wrong with giving somethign a more personal meaning and making it your own. In fact, I think that's a lot of the power that we have as appreciators of art, a power granted to us by good art.

I honestly think that this album is much more personal than all the others...The others used universal metaphors that can have multiple meanings (with exceptions to Prison Sex and Jimmy). Maynard never pin-pointed or mentioned any specific names or identities in the previous albums. This album is much more from the heart due to the struggle and eventual passing of his mother, hence the 'blues'. It certainly brings maynard down to earth...

But I can't help admit that all through the years of listening to Tool Maynard's Ego has been like a translucent Billboard that slightly annoyed my senses affecting how I digested the art. He is the songwriter, therefore he gets to convey the ideas. I would certainly like to see the other band members contribute and take us out of Maynard's head, which I think is what we get pulled into. I do feel this album's transition from the impersonal to the personal was very well thought out and executed, and as much as I'd like to read Tool lyrics that are universal/metaphycial, its a nice change to have the personal and specific....helps me identify with this person as a feeling human being as opposed a thinking one.

this made me lol all over the place.

Awesome!

Depends on how you look at it.

From a perspective of trying to find out what they meant, that's obvious, and Maynard said that this album was him getting stuff off his chest in an inspirational way.

However, I believe that once the music is out, it's anyone's to interpret. I try to find the most inspirational interpretation of this music and stick with it.

For 10,000 Days and WFM I don't think anyone can really see past the fact that it is just a mourning. But for songs like Jambi, Right in Two, Intension, Rosetta Stoned, and Vicarious, there are all more meanings to be derived.

So far, every song from Tool (save this album) is inspirational for me. If there is more to inspire me then I won't stop looking on this site.

Call it overanalyzing, but I'm trying to use this music as a backdrop for inspiration (as said on the front page of the opinion section).

Now that the album is out, Tool can no longer say what the songs mean. They can only say what they meant.

Whats really funny is that this "direct message" is not correct. Maynard said they were joking about it being their blues album, not that it was. And that doesnt say, to me, that it's a low-rent meaningless pile of emotions with no point. And that's not something that anyone should have to apologize for.

Where does Maynard say that he was joking about that comment? I missed that..

The Revolver interview, I believe.

um, do you even know what blues was originally about? Sadness=blues=some 10kdays topics and seemingly overall them of the album.