Personally, shoot me for saying this, but I don't think Tool is as spiritual, religious, enlightening, or whatever you want to call them as everybody thinks they are. I just think they're another band who happen to have a bunch of good band members, trying to do something different with music and change some minds along the way - and they've done it well. If I was in a band, I'd know I'd try to write some lyrics and some music that's out of the norm, and gain the attention of people world wide. Tool has done this.

If people feel touched by their music, it's +1 for Tool since they've made another buck off of a CD sale and/or Ticket sale for a concert. It's also good for the fans - since their music is so vague yet worded so precisely that fans can talk about the same song for hours and never find an answer. Tool has a found a niche and stuck with it - they've pertained to the fan base they have now, since they know it's who they can reach out too.

Personally - I dig these guys a lot, and I'm not harping on anybody or anything, just stating my opinion. I like them for being who they are: for the great guitar work and the beautiful voice of Maynard, and also for the killer drums and amazing bass work that's hard to find in other bands - and I take their songs with a grain of salt rather than total embrace - as I do with every band I listen to.

have you seen their live shows? the artwork that they use (alex grey is a very spiritual person and perhaps they chose that art because it represents them/their art the best)...all the sacred geometry and occult stuff they are interested in

heck, just listen to the songs lateralus, parabola or reflection

a bit on danny: "Endeavors into this realm have manifested periodically, such as the time he achieved insight into a hidden aspect of the unicursal hexagram utilizing an astral journey initiated through meditation and DMT."

i don't think tool is just another rock band...

definitely not just another rock band, but they are still just a rock band.

dont get me wrong, i will always love tool. they never let me down. but even from my own experience, i held them far to high.

Naturally, as a person who hold Tool responsible to whatever level of spirituality I may have, I'm going to have to disagree strongly. I know Alex Grey and spent a lot of time talking to him, there is no denying that the band is quite hardcore about parapsychology and spirituality. Unless you've done it, you have no idea the amount of research and knowledge which went into JUST the song 46&2, into JUST the cover of Aenima alone. If you don't know enough and you haven't lived it, the song Lateralus is a great song. If you have done the things which that song is actually about, and have a really healthy knowledge in a broad spectrum of metaphysical topics, you can see that it is really something else. Saying that they are perhaps slightly "spiritual" in that poppy bullshit way, or that they are just trying to talk about something cool, is really fuckin selling them short.

they definitely are not uninformed i agree. but there are writers, scientists, and even philosphers much more informative.

I agree with both sides. Tool will be the first to tell you not to hold them on a pedestal or worship any human for that matter. At the same time, they really are doing something spectacular, however, nothing new. Tool offers no new information in a grand sense but they do one heck of a job refurbishing and expanding on current information. Think for yourself, better yourself, question everything in pursuit of knowledge and evolution are ageless concepts. They happen to explore these concepts musically and are darn good at it. Bands aren't normally, if ever, a medium that brings us new information. Scientists, writers, and philosophers are generally responsible for this. In this sense, they are just a rock band. Albeit one that does an incredible job of bringing awareness to more important things than money, cars, and beotches.

Most of the metaphysical and occult interests are brought about by Tool's sense of humor, Danny in particular. In example, "Endeavors into this realm have manifested periodically, such as the time he achieved insight into a hidden aspect of the unicursal hexagram utilizing an astral journey initiated through meditation and DMT."

Most people don't know what DMT is or how it relates to playing the drums in 9/16 while your frontman holds a D flat over 24 measures. But it sure sounds mysterious, intriguing, and other wordly. A guy once said, "the guys in Tool obviously know something the rest of us don't, how else could you be that good?!" Maynard's response, "that's just idiotic. We don't know anything that can't be learned."

tool makes spirituality and beliefs/ religion digestible for me

looking back at the undertow days they didnt look that spiritual until aemima

Coudlnt of said it better myself. Nice line.

Perhaps, but all of the trancendence contained on their later work was informed by the bleak stuff that Undertow is made of. It was merely an emphasis on the dark elements of the psyche they would bring closer to the light on Ænima, and transmutate on Lateralus.

Can I kiss your feet? This guy above knows his TOOL. Im speaking of the band by the way.

this is right on.

Hey are you still listening to Elton John man?

ELTON JOHN! ELTON JOHN!
he's cool too

(back to the holy joint!)

i agree. some research is deff needed to fully grasp TOOL songs.

true.

Tool runs deep. No question. Tool has simply learned the things in life they feel the rest of us should come to realize.

They make a lot of things digestible for us. The reason is simple. Anyone who listens to their albums can gather that they are most definitely skeptics. The word of a skeptic is very likely to be one of truth because, after all, they're so damn skeptical. They don't put stock into anything that doesn't feel right to them.

We all desire to understand those concepts that are beyond us, but at the same time we don't want to be found out as a fool. We want to TRULY understand the grand concepts in life that seem to be beyond us rather than fool ourselves into believing something we don't feel is right. Tool is the device that helps much of us delve into such material from a somewhat logical approach.

I agree, but let's not leave out another very important theme in Tools work. Not just understanding the grand concepts that are beyond us, but to understand the basic concepts that we overlook in our everyday lives. I think these are the most important and the most overlooked. The real source of Tools angst and dissatisfaction.

How many times do you hold the door open for someone in public? Why don't you? If everyone did it all the time, would it not create much more efficiency in our travels and bring a greater sense of peace and human connectivity to all of us? But we are way too important and the other guy dresses funny.

How many times do you see trash or litter that is not yours, but you pick it up anyway? If we all did that, wouldn't the world truly be a better place?

You'll hold the door and clean up after your own family, but not the stranger. When the stranger is as much a part of you than anyone. Tool speaks a lot about being one with the world, humans evolving to the next level, becoming one with each other. Realizing that we are all connected (literally by the same energy) and we are all the same. So why do we divide ourselves so?

Its the little things like this that humanity truly misses the point on. How can you expect for humanity to evolve into higher levels of consciousness when we can't even show the slightest of courtesy to one another.

Be honest with yourself. How many things do you do on a daily basis that are completely self-less? Things that provide you absolutely nothing in return? Except that warm feeling inside knowing that you just did something for someone for no reason, and no gain.

If there were no rewards to reap, I certainly would have walked away by now.

We are all selfish pricks in a confused chaotic environment, simply waiting to die.

Visualize whirled peas.

OKcontradict much?

First of all, great thread & likewise great posts by all.

I agree with what you are saying here. I am incredibly skeptical as well when it comes to analyzing information, reflecting on ideas, and restructuring my belief system. As much as I feel that solid, proven, empirical evidence is a necessary requirement in the evaluation process that allows for one to formulate beliefs; so must the realm of inner subjective experience also be taken into account.

One of the most fascinating pieces of information that I believe Tool has left for us to contemplate, this idea operating on the grounds of “understanding grand concepts in life” as you mentioned, and that is the piece of Alex Grey artwork found in the liner notes of Lateralus. As I am sure you all know the particular piece of art I am referencing, and that is where the word “GOD” can be found in the brain.

As skeptical as I am, I have always had a very difficult time discerning the validity of certain experiences I have witnessed in various altered states of consciousness. Experiences that have spoken to me with very profound suggestibility, that indeed this notion of “GOD” is something internal that can, and must be experienced in order to gain an understanding.

In my eyes, and YES after thinking for myself and forming my own opinion on the subject, I have reached a pivotal point in my existence where I feel I have gathered enough information to form a clear, concise and logical belief regarding the nature of life and existence, which is based on a healthy balance of thought, reason and subjective experience.

Don’t think for a second, even as skeptical as Tool is, that they were unaware of the message being conveyed through this piece of art. This message I feel was obviously intentional, and certainly answers a lot of questions regarding the nature of their music.

My question to you is how do you feel about the bands choice to include this piece of art in what is arguably their most spiritually enlightening album to date?

In addition to your response, what do you believe?

Thank you for sharing that.

Keep being skeptical and questioning: question the world around you. Tool wants to open your eyes so you will interpret everything...

not really. them not being spiritual doesn't mean they can't influence opinions.

every band is out to change opinions - whether it be of musical taste, a personal message, etc.

as for tool, they met with alex grey (I saw that a few times in here), but for example: I could go to church and not be Chrisitian. The alex grey style atwork adds to the allure of tool - to make fans think that Tool actually means something.

call me crazy.

tool threw the bone out and people went after it.

and how do we know what Tool wants?

*nobody knows.

you can assume - but you don't really know.

You're crazy.

Sorry I couldn't resist. Ha. C'mon now. Let's be real about this.

For instance the band is very forward with their beliefs regarding sacred geometry and spirituality. Two elements of thought that can not only be found as evidence within their own work, but convincingly enough they are schools of thought that could be seen to act as foundations for a majority of their work.

Would you then say that the band is misleading their fan following on these grounds as well, so as to quote, "make fans think that Tool actually means something."

Maybe it's just me, but I highly doubt this. I can't believe the band would waste their careers simply 'posing' to come off as talented, intellectual and spiritual musicians.

That would make them "posers." Fucking posers. A whole group of fucking posers nonetheless.

No offense to you friend, but I am simply disagreeing with you on this statement, "tool threw the bone out and people went after it"...and basically the entire premise of this thread. I think there is definitely something they want you to discover and understand about life and yourself, and their music acts as a tool that will lead you to that understanding.

You're crazy.

I totally suppose that you also take your whole life with a grain of salt rather than an embrace, Do you also take the people in you life with something else but and embrace, oh, but maybe you take yourself with an embrace, or do you salt up on yourself as well... ? ha?

There is a myriad of spices out there, try cinnamon sometimes, ginger perhaps, might get your blood going into your hypothalamus or some other parts of yourself that you havent embraced lately.

You remind me of a banished TDN poster who went by the name of Jevons... whom I enjoyed listening too. I like you. You write like he does.

"Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see."

Maybe he is jevons...Maybe he just wants to be sleathy?

due to his mothers death.

really? I don't think so

You've softened your stance, a bit. What I quoted was "...something diff. w/ music, and change some minds..."
In any case, tool are the apostles of christianity -- to my spirituality and beleifs, and they/we need someone to "...here our music and do something great."-MJK like oh, I don't know say, something like a Modern Renascence Testament needs to be compiled, documenting every bit of knowledge to date as it pertains to the ethereal, nonmanifest, and supernatural...

yada yada

or maybe beacause it is obscure and means slightly different things to different people.

10,000 Days is about as Christian as Reign In Blood.

Naah, he is just really scared.... poor old thing...

who me or Jevons?

also - PARAFLUX, BRING BACK TEH JEVONS!
*i miss him dearly.

fuck me for not getting his email before he left. :(

.
`. good thread .
`.
give -- * -- wings
/ \
me my

(damn it - that looked so cool when I put it in, but then auto-format screwed it up..., there was a pentagram and everything)

Sometimes when I hear that line, in particular, (concerning sentances that seem to illuminate some synapse - this line is not the only one from Tool lyrics that sends a well known shiver through my spine), I get a shock of kundalini energy through my spine. This happens more often with Tool than with any other band, (modern band, it used to happen a lot when I was going through a Led Zeppelin phase.)

That is in some effect a metaphysical aspect within the music of this band.

Like most things, this is just as can be seen, a polyhedron with many dark faces.

I know that the energy produced isn't supernatural (as if)... ...I also don't follow any ideology that might try to define this very interesting gift, from this very talented band.

This is how I see the gift - a dichotomy given to expand the minds of the willing to examine. And if you look too deep into it, that would thus prevent you from nakedly experiencing it. If you see it one way, you may end up believing that there is no other way to see it. So you must learn to see it as "a polyhedron with many dark faces."

The NATURE of Tool's music help the interested listener get deeper. This may or may not be 'spiritual' ...:

as

"Science is often said to undermine our humanity, or destroy the mystery on which poetry is thought to thrive. Keats berated Newton for destroying the poetry of the rainbow:

'Philosophy will clip an Angel's wings,
Conquer all mysteries by rule and line,
Empty the haunted air, and gnomed mine --
Unweave a rainbow...'"

- Dawkins / Keats

that

Feynman also had a responce response to the charge that mysteries lose their poetry when solved, and "the scientist misses the beauty of a flower by studying it,":

"The beauty that is there for you is also available for me, too. But I see a deeper beauty that isn't available to others. I can see the complicated interactions of the flower. The color of the flower is red. Does the fact that the plant has color mean it evolved to attract insects? This adds another question. Can insects see color? Do they have an aesthetic sense? And so on. I don't see how studying a flower ever detracts from its beauty. It only adds." - Richard Feynman

is

"…I want to use the narrow slit in the veil [the burka] as a symbol…

What science does for us is widen the window. It opens up so wide that the imprisoning black garment drops away almost completely, exposing our senses to airy and exhilarating freedom.” - Dawkins

what

Let's me take what I need, to give me my wings, is the ability to listen to Tool with no disposition or intolerance already dead set in my brain, then I can sympathize when he says, "Give me my wings!"

will

spiral out!

"Of power and strength, rush forth from place to place. Come to man upon the earth far from the house of El. Fly as one hour of the bird or in order to come to serve than to pass."

keep going

spiral out!

"Think for yourself."

spiral out!

keep going, until

We find land before our time.
Watch it bloodshot up and crumble down.
Subconsciously we find,
We are predators for-ever-after-life.

(It's what you make of it. And that changes, trust me, in time it changes.)

not to mention they have never put out an original philosophy. i will never understand how people say that tool are trying to change minds etc. what they have done is put the well known philosophies of other people in to their work. they are simply passing along their beliefs and so maybe, if anything they are trying to point fans in the direction of things which they themselves may or may not believe in. but they are hardly coming up with anything original, content-wise. their music is original and their lyircs are fuckign awesome IMO but they didnt come up with these concepts themselves.

It is what it is as are all things. The majority will almost always "get it wrong" but if that holds true, what is "wrong" or "right" for that matter? If one person thinks Tool is telling them something and it leads them to something they have yet to discover, isn't that what transpired? At the same time, if another thinks they are just a band rehashing previously available information and calling their own fans sheep, is that not exactly what has transpired? I think it is both and more.

On a more interesting note, does anyone know of any instance in our lifetime in which truly new information has been offered? It seems to me that our ancestry has covered most everything which has left us destined to rehash old ideas in different terms. All while carrying a perception that we have created something "new".

But I guess if you didn't know, its new to you!

and this was exactly my point about tool in general, and what i feel makes them best rock band at this time on the planet - it is their ability to relate, to tell stories be they personal or universal (or both as i mostly understand it) and even many times comical. they relay their information on an almost genetic level to the intrepid listener. i wasn;t saying it was a bad thing that they arent creating their own philosophy, in fact i meant the contrary. what i was pointing out was what i like to call the Sprial Out crowd's inability to discern the fact that tool themselves didnt come up with these concepts.

as for your other point, truly new information is offered all the time. think of the radical advances in just the last 100 years. i dont just mean technologically, but philosophically as well. look at the novel concept that we shouldnt use human beings as slaves. or the emerging notion that we have an actual direct effect on the health of our planet. and thats not even counting the world of philosophy as it is debated in the class room or your living room.