Let's see... not much time to prepare for this 3 week tour with MJK off on his wine signings... history of not changing up the setlist... playing at festivals not necessarily for hard core Tool fans...
Doesn't look good for getting a dream setlist.
The above was posted in the now-locked thread on 06-22-2009 at 07:08 AM.
Just saying, this wasn't unexpected.
__________________ 12-Aug-02 Trenton, NJ | 13-Aug-02 NYC | 29-Oct-02 PHL | 17-May-06 PHL | 19-May-06 NYC | 20-May-06 NYC | 28-Sep-06 Camden, NJ | 02-Oct-06 Wilkes-Barre, PA | 05-Oct-06 Hartford, CT | 06-Oct-06 East Rutherford, NJ | 07-Oct-06 Long Island, NY | 09-Jun-07 Atlantic City, NJ | 23-Jun-07 Fort Wayne, IN | 29-Jun-07 Cincinnati, OH | 07-Aug-09 Cincinnati, OH | 16-Jul-10 Las Vegas, NV | 15-Mar-14 Las Vegas, NV | 22-Jan-16 STL | 23-Jan-16 Nashville, TN | 29-Oct-16 NOLA | 08-Jun-17 Rosemont, IL | 20-May-18 Columbus, OH | 08-May-19 Louisville, KY | 13-May-19 STL | 04-Jun-19 Prague | 05-Jun-19 Vienna | 15-Oct-19 DEN | 16-Oct-19 DEN | 31-Oct-19 MKE | 11-Nov-19 Toronto | 12-Nov-19 Toronto | 24-Nov-19 Raleigh, NC | 18-Jan-20 Glendale, AZ | 21-Jan-20 ATX | 29-Jan-20 Nashville, TN
Good Point, Sinfall. I think we were all shocked/suprised/pants-shitting when the news broke about this tour. The time between the Lateralus and 10k days shows seemed an eternity. They were very different shows, but they were also years and albums apart. As you said, seeing them three times in as many years - at this point in their career - who would have thunk it?
By "into it", I don't mean jumping around like Fred Durst and acting like a fucking chimp. I'm familiar enough with this band and have seen them enough to realize that this is not their style.
By not into it, I meant that they gave the vibe (to me at least, and at the show I saw) that they simply did not want to be there.
I knew what you meant, of course. I was just trying to highlight that (and please, I mean this in a nice way) YOU'RE PROJECTING. You're the one putting those feelings out there. Yes, you got them in a "genuine" way or however you want to put it, and they're YOUR interpretations. But it doesn't make them FACT, and that's sort of how you presented it.
You can't just make a blanket statement that "they're not/weren't into it" unless you, yourself, are in that band.
By "into it", I don't mean jumping around like Fred Durst and acting like a fucking chimp. I'm familiar enough with this band and have seen them enough to realize that this is not their style.
By not into it, I meant that they gave the vibe (to me at least, and at the show I saw) that they simply did not want to be there. I was not the only seasoned Tool fan who felt this way, and the show I saw was not the only one in which people felt this way...in fact, many people who had been to several shows in the past expressed the exact same sentiment to me, without prompting by me. An opinion? Sure it is. An opinion based on observation? Most definitely. I'm glad it wasn't that way this time around. The band wasn't jumping around like Fred Durst (thank god), but they gave the vibe that they were actually enjoying what they were doing. Clear?
And for the final time before this comes to a close...I was expressing A FUCKING OPINION, not putting words in the bands mouth. I never said they said this, or they said that, I simply questioned motives, and never once said (and quite to the contrary, agreed that I could be wrong) that what I was saying was necesarrily the truth. O-P-I-N-I-O-N.
That's it! :D
Dendro...my man, you have the patience of Job. All you've done here is state your opinion. This is still a free country (for the most part) and you're entitled to express it on any board. There's nothing that you, or I, or anyone else, can say or do that will open there eyes (or their mind) to see what may, or may not, be happening with Tool. You and I both feel the same way about what Tool is about these days but we really have no idea. We're just speculating. We can only form an opinion based on what we're able to observe. As long time fans of the band, we've paid the price of admission. We've bought the cds, the t-shirts, the dvd and the tickets to their shows. We have every right to be critical of anything we feel may (or may not) be an issue. We will always praise and admire the band when we're moved to do so; as you did in your review (which the fanboys here continue to conveniently forget). I love this band. I love my wife too. But if she does something that may or may not be disrespectul, I'll call her on it. That doesn't mean I now hate her. Why these fanboys can't seem to grasp this concept is a mystery to me.
BTW Isn't it ironic that these fanboys are following a band whose main message has been to "progress" and to "think for yourself" and yet they attack ANYONE who has the audacity to do just that?
Now let's sit back and watch the flock gather to throw their little arrows at me.
"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
Opinions are never wrong so long as they accurately express the speaker's point of view/analysis. People can disagree on opinion. Facts, however, are concrete. Opinion should not be substituted for facts.
Fact: The band played for about 2 hours.
Opinion: They sucked. They were awesome. They weren't into it.
Opinion or fact: "We're not into it," said a band member. Is that a fact or is that his opinion? Certainly, it is a fact that he said it, but he may have been expressing his opinion. Don't make me bust out the Federal Rules of Evidence on this distinction. Got work to do now . . .
Last edited by The Rak; 07-24-2009 at 08:04 AM..
Reason: clarification
everyone on these forums is going to get a free upgrade to PIT tickets regardless of what ticket you initially bought.
I used to work at the molson amphitheatre so I know how it works. It's foolproof.
edit: this will NOT get you into the concert for free. you still need to purchase a legitimate ticket. this will allow people who purchased seats and lawns to access the GA floor
What are they charging for the gig posters? I like to plan ahead.
From what I've heard/read, about 25 dollars for a plain old poster and of course more if it is signed. Signed run for about 100 dollars. Just make sure you don't buy the one of droopy penis man.
I've been getting tons of PM's so I'll just explain how it works here.
This will work 100% at the Molson Amphitheatre, and judging from what i've seen so far it would have worked at all these US shows as well.
When you enter the venue, they scan your ticket barcode to make sure it is valid. Then you go to the entrance to the GA/pit, and they look at your ticket to make sure it says GA/Pit or whatever, then they put an X or checkmark on it so you cannot use it again.
All you need to do is get one person who has a pit/GA ticket, use the print ticket at home option via ticketmaster. Print out 50 copies of this ticket.
Use one of these tickets to get inside the venue, then once already inside, give the other 49 copies to whoever you want - people that only have lawn or seat access. Now all 50 people can access the pit/floor because as far as security is concerned, everyone purchased these tickets.
I'm working on organizing this for everyone on these forums.
I just need that one person who has the initial pit ticket. I'll even pay that one person for their help, on everyone elses behalf.
(P.S: in san antonio now, and absolutely overwhelmed by the hospitality and generosity of so many people on these forums.... i dont think im going to need a taxi or hotel for the rest of this trip! ...and drinking underage in texas rocks. not to mention other... mind enhancing substances. fuck you, republicans!)
You would think that the venues would somehow protect against that sort of thing. Printing your own tickets has been an option for quite sometime now...
I have up to 4 tickets together in section 407 (upper - middle section) that I'm trying to sell. I'm asking face value ($85 + TM charge) which comes out to a little less than $100 a ticket.
Opinions are never wrong so long as they accurately express the speaker's point of view/analysis. People can disagree on opinion. Facts, however, are concrete. Opinion should not be substituted for facts.
[(1)] Fact: The band played for about 2 hours.
[(2)] Opinion: They sucked. They were awesome. They weren't into it.
[(3)] Opinion or fact: "We're not into it," said a band member. Is that a fact or is that his opinion? Certainly, it is a fact that he said it, but he may have been expressing his opinion. Don't make me bust out the Federal Rules of Evidence on this distinction. Got work to do now . . .
(1) judicially noted.
(2) lay opinion admissible to help schmucks on toolnavy to understand a fact in issue (i.e., whether or not the band sucked).
(3) state of mind, statement of mental condition as admissible hearsay to prove the matter asserted. also possibly an admission of party-opponent or of co-conspirator as nonhearsay. maybe used to impeach if the band member latter said they're still into it.
ummm hopefully i'll pass the bar next week? :P
__________________ "People who talk in metaphors ought to shampoo my crotch."
"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
"Yeah Tool is fucking amazing. But there’s a big chunk of their fan base that think they’ve become thought provoking geniuses just from listening to them."
pits are designed to hold almost twice the amount of people that they allow for capacity.
have you ever checked out an arena pit? 99% of the GA people are crammed into 30% of the pit area.
about 50 people was an example. I doubt it'd be that many.
anything else?
first of all, you're assuming that all the additional 50 people are going to stay in the 70% open space in the back and not cram into that 30% of the pit area in the front.
second, even if you are intending to get in 25 or even just 10 people into the pit, there will be others who will follow suit and get their buddies in. so at the end, you could very well have way more than 50.
__________________ "People who talk in metaphors ought to shampoo my crotch."
Salt Lake City was only $54.50 (face value), that's $5 less than the last time I saw them in 2007 and $20.50 less than when I saw them at Radio City Music Hall in 2002.
Ever since I saw Tool open for Henry Rollins in 92 (had no clue who they were), I've caught them every chance I had. It's been interesting watching them change and grow these last 17 years. I've seen some great Tool shows and some not so great Tool shows, so one thing I have learned is to never go in with expectations. I had high expectations for the Radio City Music Hall show and was a bit let down, especially after flying out from California. However later that year Tool tore my head off in Colorado Springs opening with Cold & Ugly and playing with a fire that I hadn't seen before or since.
My wife and I flew out for the Salt Lake City show last weekend and she seemed a bit disappointed after the show. I told her even if they played the same show from the last time to take it all in, this is her equivilant of seeing a modern day Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd (who I saw perform the same set every night on The Wall tour for $16 which was double what I paid to see Genesis and Jethro Tull that same year). One day we are going to look back and think we were lucky enough to see Tool.
I believe Maynard said something close to what I was feeling that whole night at the end of the show in SLC. Something to the effect of "enjoy this moment, it's a unique moment, it may be like other days, but today is unique". Hopefully a recording shows up from SLC so I can hear what he said again. He is right, enjoy the moment now, it might not be here tomorrow, and what I saw in SLC was much better than not seeing any Tool at all.
TooL shows are better view from the back of the floor or the seated areas anyway! (In my opinion, anyway).
I've been up on the rail at TooL shows, and while it was so awesome to see them perform so close, I really missed the view of the visual aspect from further back ora little bit further up. I've had a better time at TooLshows when I had seats. If you are going to a show with a few other people, seats, in my opinion, are the way to go.
To anyone considering sneaking onto the floor or disappointed that you couldn't get floor tickets, remember that your view will be much better and you wont have to rub up against a bunch of sweaty people and get pushed around and kicked by crowd surfers! Unless you enjoy that sort of thing...
I knew what you meant, of course. I was just trying to highlight that (and please, I mean this in a nice way) YOU'RE PROJECTING. You're the one putting those feelings out there. Yes, you got them in a "genuine" way or however you want to put it, and they're YOUR interpretations. But it doesn't make them FACT, and that's sort of how you presented it.
I can't help but respond to this, because this is just plain fallacy.
Inherently, ANYTHING I or anyone else says here that doesn't come directly from the band or their inner circle, or is a concrete evidential FACT (i.e. "Maynard fell on his ass last night while singing, here's the video") is going to be an opinion. I never presented them as facts, in fact, though to any semi-intelligent person, it would inherently be obvious my posts were opinions, I stated NUMEROUS times throughout my posts that they were in fact...opinions. How you can even suggest that I was presenting them as facts is beyond me. Do you really think everyone here is that stupid that they can't realize that? I mean shit...the title of the entire forum cluster is...OPINION! I wonder why that is...
So inherently, when I said, regarding a past performance, that they were "just not into it", it was MY opinion, based on MY observation, and the vibe I was getting...shared by many others, but still, an opinion. I apologize if you need a disclaimer on every single post stating that it is solely the opinion of the poster, but I'm just not willing to do that when it is glaringly obvious that is what it is.
Quote:
You can't just make a blanket statement that "they're not/weren't into it" unless you, yourself, are in that band.
What you are essentially saying is that I can't evaluate a performance beyond the superficial sound of it, and give my inherent OPINION without actually being in the band. I honestly don't get how you can actually believe that. When I state something about the bands energy, or interest, or whatnot, it's entirely subjective, and thus, obviously an opinion. I'm not measuring the amount of kilo-joules of energy the band is sending out into the crowd or anything.
I also said that the other night, the band was on fire, and put on a killer performance, with tons of energy, and were very much "into it". I didn't hear you criticizing THAT for being "stated as a fact" (which of course it wasn't...it was an opinion :) ).
Are we done?
Last edited by dendroaspis; 07-24-2009 at 02:43 PM..
TooL shows are better view from the back of the floor or the seated areas anyway! (In my opinion, anyway).
I've been up on the rail at TooL shows, and while it was so awesome to see them perform so close, I really missed the view of the visual aspect from further back ora little bit further up. I've had a better time at TooLshows when I had seats. If you are going to a show with a few other people, seats, in my opinion, are the way to go.
To anyone considering sneaking onto the floor or disappointed that you couldn't get floor tickets, remember that your view will be much better and you wont have to rub up against a bunch of sweaty people and get pushed around and kicked by crowd surfers! Unless you enjoy that sort of thing...
i actually agree with this 100%
i was front rail in front of justin for SLC/Denver and way back 200 level seats for NM.
the seat far away was the best experience. especially for taking in the visuals/lasers...
(1) judicially noted.
(2) lay opinion admissible to help schmucks on toolnavy to understand a fact in issue (i.e., whether or not the band sucked).
(3) state of mind, statement of mental condition as admissible hearsay to prove the matter asserted. also possibly an admission of party-opponent or of co-conspirator as nonhearsay. maybe used to impeach if the band member latter said they're still into it.
ummm hopefully i'll pass the bar next week? :P
Also review qualification of an expert. I think some of these cats here could make it.
Good luck on the bar. I missed it by an inch the first time cuz I was farting around a little too much that summer (study plan = drinking beer, watching machine gun movies, dating art chick). Second time - made it after studying for a month straight after girlfriend (now wife) put me on a real study plan. We also had a practice component for the New Mexico bar exam which worked for me since I was already advising clients at an Indian reservation legal aid office after passing the tribal bar exam.
I got mine on the way out (drunk buyer.) My poster is #38 of 350 (I think) so there should be plenty, for the signed ones you get a tube.
At Rio Rancho there was only one booth and it was inside. I suspect that's standard for all stops.
There were at least two (perhaps three but i can't properly recall) booths on Wednesday. On Tuesday in Phoenix was the first one I had seen that was outside of the ticketed area. I made an immediate note of that. I got three posters there (one signed) before the Tuesday night show. But yeah, i thought that was very interesting since i had never seen that before.
Just got done watching a few live clips on youtube of the denver and phoenix shows. I wasn't there but damn, it looks like Maynard is into it to me. Especially Rosetta Stoned.
All you people complaining be damned, I'm fucking stoked for Toronto and Cinci. Can't wait.
On another note, saw Les Claypool and his Frog Brigade. They aren't Touring anymore but if you get the chance, great show. Man knows how to play. And the small venues are great. I saw him at aplace that holds about 200 people. Check him out if you get the chance.
__________________ Columbus 06, Atlanta 07, Greenville 07, Cincinnati 07, LV 07, Toronto 09, Cincinnati 09, St Louis 2010
All you need to do is get one person who has a pit/GA ticket, use the print ticket at home option via ticketmaster. Print out 50 copies of this ticket.
Use one of these tickets to get inside the venue, then once already inside, give the other 49 copies to whoever you want - people that only have lawn or seat access. Now all 50 people can access the pit/floor because as far as security is concerned, everyone purchased these tickets.
I'm working on organizing this for everyone on these forums.
)
Just make sure you hand out those copied tickets after you enter the venue, in case some douche decided they might use yours to get in first....
In response to the GA upgrades I have been to 2 shows at the Patriot Center (July 30th show) and both times in order to get on the floor they give you a wristband (which they check for when entering the floor) when you hand them your ticket... so I don't know if that will fly for the Fairfax show. They may have changed their policies though... might be worth a try (but I doubt it).
I've been to two Tool concerts, both from the last tour. First time was mid way back on a seated floor, other time was a little higher up in seats.
This time I have GA floor for one, and very good seated tickets to the other.
I am considering trying to get up on the rail for the GA concert. There's one problem though, I am taking a 115 lb female. For those that have been this tour and on the floor, how violent was it, especially towards the front?
This may be my only chance to get that close to the band. I woulda seen them from a distance 3 times for pretty much the same concert so I figure I should experience it up close once too.
Also, any tips on how to get a good spot up at the rail? Should I just get there early, or wait till the opener is about to finish then make my way to the front?
In response to the GA upgrades I have been to 2 shows at the Patriot Center (July 30th show) and both times in order to get on the floor they give you a wristband (which they check for when entering the floor) when you hand them your ticket... so I don't know if that will fly for the Fairfax show. They may have changed their policies though... might be worth a try (but I doubt it).
For the only concert I've ever seen at the Patriot Center (which was APC) they did the same thing, took your ticket in exchange for a wristband (and said after the show you could get your ticket back from somewhere if you wanted it for like a souviner or whatever).
On unrelated notes, I've seen Tool from the floor, side seats on both sides, back seats, etc and one of the best shows I ever saw was about 5 rows back on Danny/Justins side. Of course the fun-guy may have had something to do with that.
Also, does anyone know how many of the autographed posters are at the show? Like should one purchase said poster upon entering the arena or are there enough where one can purchase it after the show on the way out the door so as to not have to carry it around the whole show?
