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07-05-2006, 12:24 PM
Upon considering each album's tone and message seperately and chronologically, I decided that Lateralus was Tool taking a different approach in how they thought, but it didn't carry over into 10,000 Days.
All their other albums have a pessimistic, naturalistic point of view.
Opiate - Very anti-religious in its roots, a line that could characterize Naturalism and Darwanism from the EP is from Jerk Off:
"Maybe it's just bullshit and I should play GOD, and shoot you myself. Because I'm tired of waiting. Consequences dictate our course of action and it doesn't matter what's right. It's only wrong if you get caught."
Pessimism everywhere, saying there is no God to determine right from wrong, and at the end of the day it comes down to you doing what you think you should do, and that's about all there is to it.
Undertow - Same trend. Take Swamp Song. Very straight-forward message: You're a stupid, belligerent fucker, you have no idea what you're getting into, and you're going to get fucked for it.
Bottom: I'm dead inside, and feed off of hatred, weakness, guilt in this shithole.
While Undertow is less belligerent than Opiate, it does carry the same sort of tone.
Aenema - Best way to sum this one up is with the song the album is named after, Aenima, and the message "Learn to swim," just trying to communicate what a shithole LA is, and to get rid of all the shit living in it, it should just be flushed out, so only the ones who know how to adapt will learn to swim and live. Same sort of message as we've seen before
Lateralus - Now here's something new. Instead of looking out into others for their faults and shortcomings, this album focuses more on looking inward for self-improvement, most prominent in the patient, lateralus, parabola, the grudge. Instead of being pessimistic and naturalistic, this time around its all optimistic and romantic. In it's message, it's very different from previous albums.
10,000 Days - As far as I can tell, this has gone back to Tool's prior way of thinking, most notably represented in Vicarious: "the universe is hostile, so impersonal. devour to survive -- so it is, so it’s always been"
The Pot also shares the same tone, but the romantic tone of lateralus is present in other songs, such as Right in Two and Wings for Marie. Right in Two is actually very strange, because Maynard, the guy who once told us he should play God and shoot you in your fucking head, and that you should learn to swim to survive, is now so upset about what people are doing to each other. It seems to me that Tool is a little confused about what they believe in. Consider Ticks and Leeches: The only straight-up angry, seething song on lateralus. While lateralus is mainly about acceptance, rediscovering communication and turning grudges into gold (among other topics, obviously), out of nowhere comes a song that just screams "Fuck you. I'm not done with this quite yet, you fucking asshole," just seconds after preaching peace and tranquility. What the hell, man?
07-05-2006, 12:24 PM
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#1
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On Probation
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oz
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Lateralus was a contradiction
Upon considering each album's tone and message seperately and chronologically, I decided that Lateralus was Tool taking a different approach in how they thought, but it didn't carry over into 10,000 Days.
All their other albums have a pessimistic, naturalistic point of view.
Opiate - Very anti-religious in its roots, a line that could characterize Naturalism and Darwanism from the EP is from Jerk Off:
"Maybe it's just bullshit and I should play GOD, and shoot you myself. Because I'm tired of waiting. Consequences dictate our course of action and it doesn't matter what's right. It's only wrong if you get caught."
Pessimism everywhere, saying there is no God to determine right from wrong, and at the end of the day it comes down to you doing what you think you should do, and that's about all there is to it.
Undertow - Same trend. Take Swamp Song. Very straight-forward message: You're a stupid, belligerent fucker, you have no idea what you're getting into, and you're going to get fucked for it.
Bottom: I'm dead inside, and feed off of hatred, weakness, guilt in this shithole.
While Undertow is less belligerent than Opiate, it does carry the same sort of tone.
Aenema - Best way to sum this one up is with the song the album is named after, Aenima, and the message "Learn to swim," just trying to communicate what a shithole LA is, and to get rid of all the shit living in it, it should just be flushed out, so only the ones who know how to adapt will learn to swim and live. Same sort of message as we've seen before
Lateralus - Now here's something new. Instead of looking out into others for their faults and shortcomings, this album focuses more on looking inward for self-improvement, most prominent in the patient, lateralus, parabola, the grudge. Instead of being pessimistic and naturalistic, this time around its all optimistic and romantic. In it's message, it's very different from previous albums.
10,000 Days - As far as I can tell, this has gone back to Tool's prior way of thinking, most notably represented in Vicarious: "the universe is hostile, so impersonal. devour to survive -- so it is, so it’s always been"
The Pot also shares the same tone, but the romantic tone of lateralus is present in other songs, such as Right in Two and Wings for Marie. Right in Two is actually very strange, because Maynard, the guy who once told us he should play God and shoot you in your fucking head, and that you should learn to swim to survive, is now so upset about what people are doing to each other. It seems to me that Tool is a little confused about what they believe in. Consider Ticks and Leeches: The only straight-up angry, seething song on lateralus. While lateralus is mainly about acceptance, rediscovering communication and turning grudges into gold (among other topics, obviously), out of nowhere comes a song that just screams "Fuck you. I'm not done with this quite yet, you fucking asshole," just seconds after preaching peace and tranquility. What the hell, man?
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07-05-2006, 12:28 PM
crazy as it may seem, this has been discussed before.
07-05-2006, 12:28 PM
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#2
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Banned.
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
crazy as it may seem, this has been discussed before.
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I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
07-05-2006, 12:31 PM
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#3
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Banned.
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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07-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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Maynard even said in the song Aenema, "Don't just call me pessimist, try and read between the lines." I agree with paraflux that there was always something beneath all of that stuff.
__________________
". . . A Perfect Circle is just a holiday thing and Tool is like coming back home." MJK
07-05-2006, 12:49 PM
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#4
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Prana
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Locus Delecti
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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Maynard even said in the song Aenema, "Don't just call me pessimist, try and read between the lines." I agree with paraflux that there was always something beneath all of that stuff.
__________________
". . . A Perfect Circle is just a holiday thing and Tool is like coming back home." MJK
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07-05-2006, 01:24 PM
people change dude... thats all i can really say. ive seen somebody else post this else where and it's true..."i hope people dont hold me accountable for things i said 14 years ago"
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the worst blowjob is still better than seeing the greatest sunset
07-05-2006, 01:24 PM
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#5
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Level 8 - Vociferous
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Location: in the gutter
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
people change dude... thats all i can really say. ive seen somebody else post this else where and it's true..."i hope people dont hold me accountable for things i said 14 years ago"
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the worst blowjob is still better than seeing the greatest sunset
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07-05-2006, 01:29 PM
I think you're correct.
07-05-2006, 01:29 PM
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#6
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australios
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
I think you're correct.
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07-05-2006, 01:35 PM
You have a good point. However I believe that Lateralus isn't a contradiction, just the next step. You see, the earlier works showcase a lot of frustration. Lateralus is the first record where they actually get to some 'answers'.
10,000 Days is like a blend of both. There's the underlying theme of division versus unity (taking the self-realisation of Lateralus to a grander scale, that of society).
Then there's frustration towards the norm in The Pot which deals with hypocricy and politics, and Vicarious adressing primal urges, shaped by society into a personal niche for keeping us down (Undertow and earlier stuff). Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned reminds me of the drug-induced frenzy of one getting a glimp of some answers, like the whole Aenima record (mostly those answers involve Carl Jung pyschology and Bill Hicks' satire on LA, and the symbolical Third Eye Chakra opening).
Then there's the artwork!
Lateralus is like Alex Grey's Sacred Mirrors series. A magnum opus if you will. It is grand, majestic and inspiring, hopefull. 10,000 Days' artwork is of a much more layered and personal level. Yes there's the kaballa/occultism/Crowley reference again, but also a parody on business types that MJK portrays. There's also the various adoptations of the Net Of Being which, to me, feels exactly like 10K's theme; Lateralus' ideals, applied to the scale of society. Then there's the spirals, the figures engulfing themselves in the net to 'spiral out', very personal and individual yet again. It's such a cool booklet!
10,000 Days is the blues record as they have said, in a sense that it is on a much more personal level then Lateralus, even to the extreme of 10K being about the aftermath of the failed movement Lateralus was supposed to instigate (whilst most people just digged the riffs if you see where I'm coming from).
Reflect.
__________________
"I found the remnants of a crescent fang,
it cleaned my wing down to the bone....
Umbillical syllables left to decode,
there was no craddle I can taste it!"
07-05-2006, 01:35 PM
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#7
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In between my headphones
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
You have a good point. However I believe that Lateralus isn't a contradiction, just the next step. You see, the earlier works showcase a lot of frustration. Lateralus is the first record where they actually get to some 'answers'.
10,000 Days is like a blend of both. There's the underlying theme of division versus unity (taking the self-realisation of Lateralus to a grander scale, that of society).
Then there's frustration towards the norm in The Pot which deals with hypocricy and politics, and Vicarious adressing primal urges, shaped by society into a personal niche for keeping us down (Undertow and earlier stuff). Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned reminds me of the drug-induced frenzy of one getting a glimp of some answers, like the whole Aenima record (mostly those answers involve Carl Jung pyschology and Bill Hicks' satire on LA, and the symbolical Third Eye Chakra opening).
Then there's the artwork!
Lateralus is like Alex Grey's Sacred Mirrors series. A magnum opus if you will. It is grand, majestic and inspiring, hopefull. 10,000 Days' artwork is of a much more layered and personal level. Yes there's the kaballa/occultism/Crowley reference again, but also a parody on business types that MJK portrays. There's also the various adoptations of the Net Of Being which, to me, feels exactly like 10K's theme; Lateralus' ideals, applied to the scale of society. Then there's the spirals, the figures engulfing themselves in the net to 'spiral out', very personal and individual yet again. It's such a cool booklet!
10,000 Days is the blues record as they have said, in a sense that it is on a much more personal level then Lateralus, even to the extreme of 10K being about the aftermath of the failed movement Lateralus was supposed to instigate (whilst most people just digged the riffs if you see where I'm coming from).
Reflect.
__________________
"I found the remnants of a crescent fang,
it cleaned my wing down to the bone....
Umbillical syllables left to decode,
there was no craddle I can taste it!"
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07-05-2006, 10:23 PM
tick and leeches is so out of place. bside
07-05-2006, 10:23 PM
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#8
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kansas City
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
tick and leeches is so out of place. bside
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07-05-2006, 11:38 PM
Im starting to thinking a similar thought. Lateralus is Tool's Dark Side of the Moon, Lateralus seems to be more of an album, whereas with ALL tool's other albums, they seem more loose and like a group of tracks selected for a cd. I think lateralus was an exceptional album, just like Dark Side, not something theyre gonna do again.
07-05-2006, 11:38 PM
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#9
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Microcosm
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Im starting to thinking a similar thought. Lateralus is Tool's Dark Side of the Moon, Lateralus seems to be more of an album, whereas with ALL tool's other albums, they seem more loose and like a group of tracks selected for a cd. I think lateralus was an exceptional album, just like Dark Side, not something theyre gonna do again.
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07-06-2006, 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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I agree.
Lateralus was, of course, a step in a somewhat different direction but I don't think that there are any true contradictions within any of Tool's music. None that weren't planned, anyway. =P
__________________
I'll heal your wounds, I'll set you free, I'm Jesus Christ on Ecstasy.
07-06-2006, 12:08 AM
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#10
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MO
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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I agree.
Lateralus was, of course, a step in a somewhat different direction but I don't think that there are any true contradictions within any of Tool's music. None that weren't planned, anyway. =P
__________________
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalSanityOff
Lateralus - Now here's something new. Instead of looking out into others for their faults and shortcomings, this album focuses more on looking inward for self-improvement
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dude, tool started looking inward by the time they released Undertow at the very latest. I agree that the earlier albums were more openly aggressive and perhaps condeming, but i see this phase as (at least Maynard's) an essential step towards self-improvement. I think Aenima was definately the defining album for this process - bringing out the shit, clearing it away (nearly all the tracks off Aenima are associated with this).
I think Lateralus flows very naturally from Aenima as the next step in this process
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
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#11
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Perth Australia
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalSanityOff
Lateralus - Now here's something new. Instead of looking out into others for their faults and shortcomings, this album focuses more on looking inward for self-improvement
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dude, tool started looking inward by the time they released Undertow at the very latest. I agree that the earlier albums were more openly aggressive and perhaps condeming, but i see this phase as (at least Maynard's) an essential step towards self-improvement. I think Aenima was definately the defining album for this process - bringing out the shit, clearing it away (nearly all the tracks off Aenima are associated with this).
I think Lateralus flows very naturally from Aenima as the next step in this process
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Maynard is not Tool and I would be surprised to find out that he has more power over the band's direction than any other member of the band. People single him out because he's the singer, and I think that's irresponsible. He is not solely responsible for their direction at any point in time.
07-06-2006, 06:04 AM
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#12
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Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Maynard is not Tool and I would be surprised to find out that he has more power over the band's direction than any other member of the band. People single him out because he's the singer, and I think that's irresponsible. He is not solely responsible for their direction at any point in time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Maynard is not Tool and I would be surprised to find out that he has more power over the band's direction than any other member of the band. People single him out because he's the singer, and I think that's irresponsible. He is not solely responsible for their direction at any point in time.
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he definately does get singled out and i for one can't help but feel more intimately connected to him than the other members, overall. As the singer you have not only the beat and melody, but the message too. Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
07-06-2006, 08:25 AM
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#13
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Perth Australia
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
Maynard is not Tool and I would be surprised to find out that he has more power over the band's direction than any other member of the band. People single him out because he's the singer, and I think that's irresponsible. He is not solely responsible for their direction at any point in time.
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he definately does get singled out and i for one can't help but feel more intimately connected to him than the other members, overall. As the singer you have not only the beat and melody, but the message too. Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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07-06-2006, 08:50 AM
From what I can tell from interviews it seems like they think they 'failed' with Lateralus. Like they were trying to open peoples minds and tear the walls down.... I'm not exactly sure what they thought the record was going to do for society but I certainly don't think it's a 'failure'. Like RATM for example... did they start teh revoluti0n? Well, no... but they did heighten a lot of peoples awareness and thats the best you can hope for. Can music really save the world?
07-06-2006, 08:50 AM
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#14
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amateur alchemist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the palace
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
From what I can tell from interviews it seems like they think they 'failed' with Lateralus. Like they were trying to open peoples minds and tear the walls down.... I'm not exactly sure what they thought the record was going to do for society but I certainly don't think it's a 'failure'. Like RATM for example... did they start teh revoluti0n? Well, no... but they did heighten a lot of peoples awareness and thats the best you can hope for. Can music really save the world?
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07-06-2006, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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Probably not directly but they are friends and no doubt a huge influence in Nardo's life. I'm sure he's used things from conversations here and there. I'm sure all those themes they have all talked about in great length... and i can see Nard translating the 'sum of ideas'
07-06-2006, 08:55 AM
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#15
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amateur alchemist
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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Probably not directly but they are friends and no doubt a huge influence in Nardo's life. I'm sure he's used things from conversations here and there. I'm sure all those themes they have all talked about in great length... and i can see Nard translating the 'sum of ideas'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
he definately does get singled out and i for one can't help but feel more intimately connected to him than the other members, overall. As the singer you have not only the beat and melody, but the message too. Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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It's not always about lyrics. The music often dictates to hiim what to sing, it seems. Dont tell me you cant hear the tidal wave in AEnema, or the envelope being bent in Lateralus. They are all one and the same, to me. All together, all unified in message and direction, and all singing the same song. This is what makes me even hold them in high regard, this factor.
07-06-2006, 08:58 AM
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#16
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Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
he definately does get singled out and i for one can't help but feel more intimately connected to him than the other members, overall. As the singer you have not only the beat and melody, but the message too. Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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It's not always about lyrics. The music often dictates to hiim what to sing, it seems. Dont tell me you cant hear the tidal wave in AEnema, or the envelope being bent in Lateralus. They are all one and the same, to me. All together, all unified in message and direction, and all singing the same song. This is what makes me even hold them in high regard, this factor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
Probably not directly but they are friends and no doubt a huge influence in Nardo's life. I'm sure he's used things from conversations here and there. I'm sure all those themes they have all talked about in great length... and i can see Nard translating the 'sum of ideas'
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Mm.. ok not related but i would love to hear one of the other boys sing a song that they had made, that would make for a very special concert
07-06-2006, 09:02 AM
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#17
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Perth Australia
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
Probably not directly but they are friends and no doubt a huge influence in Nardo's life. I'm sure he's used things from conversations here and there. I'm sure all those themes they have all talked about in great length... and i can see Nard translating the 'sum of ideas'
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Mm.. ok not related but i would love to hear one of the other boys sing a song that they had made, that would make for a very special concert
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07-06-2006, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
Mm.. ok not related but i would love to hear one of the other boys sing a song that they had made, that would make for a very special concert
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haha yeah.. or just some random drunk fan.... like pull some teenager out of the pit and give him the mic for Eulogy... oh man...
07-06-2006, 09:06 AM
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#18
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amateur alchemist
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
Mm.. ok not related but i would love to hear one of the other boys sing a song that they had made, that would make for a very special concert
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haha yeah.. or just some random drunk fan.... like pull some teenager out of the pit and give him the mic for Eulogy... oh man...
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07-06-2006, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
he definately does get singled out and i for one can't help but feel more intimately connected to him than the other members, overall. As the singer you have not only the beat and melody, but the message too. Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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there is no way for us to know this aside from being there while they were writing, or them telling us directly, neither of which have or will happen in my opinion. the song writing credits go solely to the entity that is Tool without further elaboration in the linear notes; this is all we have to go on. so it is feasible that others can contribute lyrics as well as maynard suggesting musical ideas, although both i think are unlikely at least in their case. they seem to work under the notion everyone plays their own instruments so everyone writes their own parts, so i've gathered from various interviews discussing the song writing process.
Last edited by EulogyCallinMe; 07-06-2006 at 09:18 AM..
07-06-2006, 09:15 AM
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#19
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Super Goof or Smitty Werbenjaegermanjensen? You decide
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Posts: 424
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by pau
he definately does get singled out and i for one can't help but feel more intimately connected to him than the other members, overall. As the singer you have not only the beat and melody, but the message too. Does anyone think or have heard that Danny, Justin or Adam contribute to the lyrics in any way?
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there is no way for us to know this aside from being there while they were writing, or them telling us directly, neither of which have or will happen in my opinion. the song writing credits go solely to the entity that is Tool without further elaboration in the linear notes; this is all we have to go on. so it is feasible that others can contribute lyrics as well as maynard suggesting musical ideas, although both i think are unlikely at least in their case. they seem to work under the notion everyone plays their own instruments so everyone writes their own parts, so i've gathered from various interviews discussing the song writing process.
Last edited by EulogyCallinMe; 07-06-2006 at 09:18 AM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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Unlike 10,000 Days which to me sometimes feels like a big cloud of mournful pessimism with no growth.
07-06-2006, 02:58 PM
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#20
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Earth
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
I dont see the past releases being that pessimistic, no. There are lines here and there, sure, angry lines, angry music, but it was, to me, always searching, always finding, and always relaying to the listeners how to do so.
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Unlike 10,000 Days which to me sometimes feels like a big cloud of mournful pessimism with no growth.
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07-06-2006, 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonch
Unlike 10,000 Days which to me sometimes feels like a big cloud of mournful pessimism with no growth.
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haha BURN
bonch - 1
Tool - 0
07-06-2006, 03:07 PM
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#21
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amateur alchemist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the palace
Posts: 2,471
Bincount™: 3472
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonch
Unlike 10,000 Days which to me sometimes feels like a big cloud of mournful pessimism with no growth.
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haha BURN
bonch - 1
Tool - 0
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07-06-2006, 05:30 PM
I've noticed that the essence of 10,000 Days is referring to the hypocrite in all of us, including Maynard.
07-06-2006, 05:30 PM
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#22
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Banned.
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Location: Connecticut
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
I've noticed that the essence of 10,000 Days is referring to the hypocrite in all of us, including Maynard.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonch
Unlike 10,000 Days which to me sometimes feels like a big cloud of mournful pessimism with no growth.
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And perhaps that's what we need to get ourselves off our asses and do shit ourselves?
07-06-2006, 05:49 PM
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#23
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Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonch
Unlike 10,000 Days which to me sometimes feels like a big cloud of mournful pessimism with no growth.
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And perhaps that's what we need to get ourselves off our asses and do shit ourselves?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
haha BURN
bonch - 1
Tool - 0
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To me, I see the opposite
07-06-2006, 05:49 PM
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#24
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Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: revelation
Posts: 10,298
Bincount™: 9070
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
haha BURN
bonch - 1
Tool - 0
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To me, I see the opposite
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Lateralus was talking about people as individuals, Aenima and 10k days is an overview of western culture as a whole, but specifically how we lost our way as human beings due to over gratification on things that really are not relevent to our lives.
07-06-2006, 06:55 PM
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#25
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Level 4 - Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Lateralus was talking about people as individuals, Aenima and 10k days is an overview of western culture as a whole, but specifically how we lost our way as human beings due to over gratification on things that really are not relevent to our lives.
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07-06-2006, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
And perhaps that's what we need to get ourselves off our asses and do shit ourselves?
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Well said, Bubba.
We can complain, or we can show just how Tool has become irrelevant by, in the words of paraflux, doing shit ourselves.
__________________
"You see, for me [art]'s not one of life's ornaments, rococo relaxation to be greeted affably after a day of hard work; I'm inverted on this : for me it's my very breath, the one thing necessary, and all else is excretion and a latrine."
~Arno Schmidt
07-06-2006, 07:02 PM
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#26
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Level 10 - Vehement
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,733
Bincount™: 95
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraflux
And perhaps that's what we need to get ourselves off our asses and do shit ourselves?
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Well said, Bubba.
We can complain, or we can show just how Tool has become irrelevant by, in the words of paraflux, doing shit ourselves.
__________________
"You see, for me [art]'s not one of life's ornaments, rococo relaxation to be greeted affably after a day of hard work; I'm inverted on this : for me it's my very breath, the one thing necessary, and all else is excretion and a latrine."
~Arno Schmidt
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07-07-2006, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
From what I can tell from interviews it seems like they think they 'failed' with Lateralus. Like they were trying to open peoples minds and tear the walls down.... I'm not exactly sure what they thought the record was going to do for society but I certainly don't think it's a 'failure'. Like RATM for example... did they start teh revoluti0n? Well, no... but they did heighten a lot of peoples awareness and thats the best you can hope for. Can music really save the world?
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no it cant because if the doors and rage against the machine couldnt do it no one can... unless i really get a hell of a lot better at playing the keyboard
__________________
the worst blowjob is still better than seeing the greatest sunset
07-07-2006, 04:54 AM
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#27
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Level 8 - Vociferous
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in the gutter
Posts: 907
Bincount™: 122
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
From what I can tell from interviews it seems like they think they 'failed' with Lateralus. Like they were trying to open peoples minds and tear the walls down.... I'm not exactly sure what they thought the record was going to do for society but I certainly don't think it's a 'failure'. Like RATM for example... did they start teh revoluti0n? Well, no... but they did heighten a lot of peoples awareness and thats the best you can hope for. Can music really save the world?
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no it cant because if the doors and rage against the machine couldnt do it no one can... unless i really get a hell of a lot better at playing the keyboard
__________________
the worst blowjob is still better than seeing the greatest sunset
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07-07-2006, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rembrandt_q_einstein
no it cant because if the doors and rage against the machine couldnt do it no one can... unless i really get a hell of a lot better at playing the keyboard
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I always try to look at it from an Alien's perspective. Say this alien lives in a utopian like society, analyzing our poor little planet, wondering what it is we have to offer the universe.. Maybe Earth is the only planet which such sorrow and tragedy, and then they hear the music. If there is one thing that would be unique to Earth it would be our music. We have some very emotional stuff that's probably more powerful than anything else in existance because we're so alone, terrified, depressed, miserable.... and we need it to connect and relate. Our imbalance is most likely tearing the universe apart... but we still have our music.
I don't doubt that when we repond to something that strikes deep... that unlocks something buried within our souls... the emotional charge released crosses space and time and might very well reach someone on the other side, and that being may shed a tear for our troubled planet. Whether you are creating or expierencing truly great music, you are part of the legacy of this planet. You think people in a utopian world have any need to bleed their souls dry through music? If my life was perfect, I sure as hell would have nothing to say.
But anyway... about music saving the world... i try not to look at is as the actual 'music' but as compassion itself
Last edited by resonance.; 07-07-2006 at 01:50 PM..
07-07-2006, 01:42 PM
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#28
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amateur alchemist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the palace
Posts: 2,471
Bincount™: 3472
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by rembrandt_q_einstein
no it cant because if the doors and rage against the machine couldnt do it no one can... unless i really get a hell of a lot better at playing the keyboard
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I always try to look at it from an Alien's perspective. Say this alien lives in a utopian like society, analyzing our poor little planet, wondering what it is we have to offer the universe.. Maybe Earth is the only planet which such sorrow and tragedy, and then they hear the music. If there is one thing that would be unique to Earth it would be our music. We have some very emotional stuff that's probably more powerful than anything else in existance because we're so alone, terrified, depressed, miserable.... and we need it to connect and relate. Our imbalance is most likely tearing the universe apart... but we still have our music.
I don't doubt that when we repond to something that strikes deep... that unlocks something buried within our souls... the emotional charge released crosses space and time and might very well reach someone on the other side, and that being may shed a tear for our troubled planet. Whether you are creating or expierencing truly great music, you are part of the legacy of this planet. You think people in a utopian world have any need to bleed their souls dry through music? If my life was perfect, I sure as hell would have nothing to say.
But anyway... about music saving the world... i try not to look at is as the actual 'music' but as compassion itself
Last edited by resonance.; 07-07-2006 at 01:50 PM..
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To MentalSanityOff
As is life, like an arc.
You have your pessimistic attitude, your ephiphany of realization and get old and have more pessimistic attitude when all your family and friends die....in no particular order.
07-07-2006, 05:05 PM
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#29
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Level 6 - Very Deep Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Great Falls, MT
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
To MentalSanityOff
As is life, like an arc.
You have your pessimistic attitude, your ephiphany of realization and get old and have more pessimistic attitude when all your family and friends die....in no particular order.
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07-20-2006, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
From what I can tell from interviews it seems like they think they 'failed' with Lateralus. Like they were trying to open peoples minds and tear the walls down.... I'm not exactly sure what they thought the record was going to do for society but I certainly don't think it's a 'failure'. Like RATM for example... did they start teh revoluti0n? Well, no... but they did heighten a lot of peoples awareness and thats the best you can hope for. Can music really save the world?
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Music cannot save the world anymore than the messenger can win a war. What music does is to open peoples' eyes to a different point of view, and to spark debate and discussion about relevant topics. That is what mainstream pop sucks so hard today... the messages have become irrelevant. There is a lack of voice and backbone, and unfortunately, most people would rather veg out than have anything original to say. When the status quo becomes reality, what becomes of the dissenters?
07-20-2006, 10:30 PM
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#30
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: n00bertonfieldville, n00bland
Posts: 385
Bincount™: 791
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by resonance.
From what I can tell from interviews it seems like they think they 'failed' with Lateralus. Like they were trying to open peoples minds and tear the walls down.... I'm not exactly sure what they thought the record was going to do for society but I certainly don't think it's a 'failure'. Like RATM for example... did they start teh revoluti0n? Well, no... but they did heighten a lot of peoples awareness and thats the best you can hope for. Can music really save the world?
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Music cannot save the world anymore than the messenger can win a war. What music does is to open peoples' eyes to a different point of view, and to spark debate and discussion about relevant topics. That is what mainstream pop sucks so hard today... the messages have become irrelevant. There is a lack of voice and backbone, and unfortunately, most people would rather veg out than have anything original to say. When the status quo becomes reality, what becomes of the dissenters?
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07-21-2006, 08:26 AM
the human mind evolves and changes
i dont see lateralus as a contradiction
i see it as a lesson a valid personal one
10,000 days is where the application
comes in...where you test your colors and
ideas and beliefs. after all things have turned
we have seen the ill more so now than ever.
the lesson of lateralus will always be poignant
and important foremost to the individual's soul.
i didn't feel it necessary to continue on the line of
enlightenment since lateralus definitely shone the light
on the road, now we have to concentrate on the
road, on the trials on the reality of life.
07-21-2006, 08:26 AM
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#31
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Level 9 - Obstreperous
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bequia
Posts: 1,671
Bincount™: 801
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
the human mind evolves and changes
i dont see lateralus as a contradiction
i see it as a lesson a valid personal one
10,000 days is where the application
comes in...where you test your colors and
ideas and beliefs. after all things have turned
we have seen the ill more so now than ever.
the lesson of lateralus will always be poignant
and important foremost to the individual's soul.
i didn't feel it necessary to continue on the line of
enlightenment since lateralus definitely shone the light
on the road, now we have to concentrate on the
road, on the trials on the reality of life.
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07-21-2006, 11:20 AM
"Neither the brave nor bold
Will write us the story so"
I agree that 10,000 Days doesn't seem to follow up lateralus' views on the external (lyrically) speaking. But i know we've heard it from the band themselves, the new album is more angry, whatever. So it should be, in the current times. 10,00 Days would be my response to lateralus which fell on deaf ears. One thing 10,000 Days does do for me is taunts me to change the world. I'm up for the task. Their subtlety and integrity smacks you across the face. I use tool as they want me too and create what i see missing in my art . we all are the creations of our own
__________________
7/18/02 Tucson, 11/19/02 Phoenix, 4/30/06 CoacHella, 8/27/06 Gorge-George WA, 5/6/07 Tucson, 12/5/07 Portland, 12/7/07 Spokane, 8/1/09 New Jersey
Last edited by Airport Mesa; 07-21-2006 at 11:24 AM..
07-21-2006, 11:20 AM
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#32
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Gulch Jerome, Airport Mesa, Sedona. No longer Eugene, OR. Now Windsor Terrace, Brooklyn
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
"Neither the brave nor bold
Will write us the story so"
I agree that 10,000 Days doesn't seem to follow up lateralus' views on the external (lyrically) speaking. But i know we've heard it from the band themselves, the new album is more angry, whatever. So it should be, in the current times. 10,00 Days would be my response to lateralus which fell on deaf ears. One thing 10,000 Days does do for me is taunts me to change the world. I'm up for the task. Their subtlety and integrity smacks you across the face. I use tool as they want me too and create what i see missing in my art . we all are the creations of our own
__________________
7/18/02 Tucson, 11/19/02 Phoenix, 4/30/06 CoacHella, 8/27/06 Gorge-George WA, 5/6/07 Tucson, 12/5/07 Portland, 12/7/07 Spokane, 8/1/09 New Jersey
Last edited by Airport Mesa; 07-21-2006 at 11:24 AM..
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07-21-2006, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonSkin
tick and leeches is so out of place. bside
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Very much agreed. It sounds like a freaking Godsmack song, not Tool.
07-21-2006, 11:55 AM
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#33
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In my home
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonSkin
tick and leeches is so out of place. bside
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Very much agreed. It sounds like a freaking Godsmack song, not Tool.
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07-21-2006, 11:51 PM
Lateralus would not be Lateralus without Ticks and Leeches.
07-21-2006, 11:51 PM
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#34
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Level 7 - Loquacious
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sydney, AUS!
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Lateralus would not be Lateralus without Ticks and Leeches.
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07-22-2006, 07:24 AM
Yes it would.
__________________
We live in a world within itself
Full of explosions impacting
Tiny patches, violently they ask,
"Why does God not blot out the sun?"
www.fozlur.com
07-22-2006, 07:24 AM
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#35
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Level 5 - Deep Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: dallas
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
Yes it would.
__________________
We live in a world within itself
Full of explosions impacting
Tiny patches, violently they ask,
"Why does God not blot out the sun?"
www.fozlur.com
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i think theyre just pissed off on this album... lateralus was something like an awakening or reaching out to a newer (higher?) level of being ... if lateralus' message was to find a new way of thinking, then 10000 days sounds like they adapted the thinking, but everything else is the same, shitty... and theyre pissed off about it
by 'they' i mean myself, and possibly anyone else who sees it like that
07-22-2006, 07:36 AM
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#36
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Level 3 - Talker
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Re: Lateralus was a contradiction
i think theyre just pissed off on this album... lateralus was something like an awakening or reaching out to a newer (higher?) level of being ... if lateralus' message was to find a new way of thinking, then 10000 days sounds like they adapted the thinking, but everything else is the same, shitty... and theyre pissed off about it
by 'they' i mean myself, and possibly anyone else who sees it like that
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