every surrounding nyc arena such as madison square, nassua colesium, always sell out regardless of who plays really just because its nyc, but i cant say the same (cuz i dont know the facts) about other parts of the USA....but yeah tool does sell out quickly in tne tri-state (ny/nj/ct) area and that is a fact
EDIT: BY GAWD THE CARNAGE!@!!!!
Last edited by moneyisevil; 07-16-2006 at 09:26 PM..
every surrounding nyc arena such as madison square, nassua colesium, always sell out regardless of who plays really just because its nyc, but i cant say the same (cuz i dont know the facts) about other parts of the USA....but yeah tool does sell out quickly in tne tri-state (ny/nj/ct) area and that is a fact
EDIT: BY GAWD THE CARNAGE!@!!!!
yeah i figured nyc area, la area, and chicago area sell out.
The "you" I was referring to isn't TOOL, but the original poster. I was saying that it's beyond his control, so he should just breathe the breath of life and relax.
and about TooL "not caring".....specifically and not in general:
why the fuck should they care? what the fuck should they care about? why, simply as one of the brand's consumers, do you feel so entitled? and to what do you feel so entitled to?
Curiousity killed the cat, you know.
Touring is good business.
When the members of TOOL signed on the dotted line comfiring their participation in this tour they sign up to participate in a capitalist machine that trades in the commodity of the so-called "it" factor, their ability to command you to want to see them.
For you to want to look/listen to them they use a combination of glamour, intrigue and sympathy.
Then they charge you up the ass for tickets to attend one of their apperances.
Middlemen interfere and charge you even more money.
Then, to satisfy the voyeur, you give someone your money and smile.
OR, you don't give anyone your money and stay at home, crying and bitching.
Idealism doesn't expand the brand.
At least TOOL don't pander by doing porn, in-stores or product endorsements...or is that only because they don't REALLY care about you.
like someone said, season subscriptions at Camden is likely where the tickets are coming from. Maynard prob. didnt know that (if that was him). and bands do care or they wouldnt be waging the constant battle vs scalpers, would they?
all i have to say is that some bands are fan-friendly such as pearl jam (and dont give me that "well they are not tool"...cuz really? i didnt know pearl jam wasnt tool!) who come up with innovative ideas to stop the scalping industry from grabbing a strangehold on consumers
these ideas include the will-call thing, fan-club presales, and not going through ticketmaster (who gives away free tickets to clients and brokers)
im not asking tool to suck my dick, im asking them to make it a little less hectic when it comes to ticket sales esp. in areas that are really populated...is that too much to ask?
all i have to say is that some bands are fan-friendly such as pearl jam who come up with innovative ideas to stop the scalping industry from grabbing a strangehold on consumers
these ideas include the will-call thing, fan-club presales, and not going through ticketmaster (who gives away free tickets to clients and brokers)
im not asking tool to suck my dick, im asking them to make it a little less hectic when it comes to ticket sales esp. in areas that are really populated...is that too much to ask?
Pearl Jam uses ticketmaster now. They lost money after they quit using TM so they went back to TM.
i have dealt with numerous concerts (even within the past few weeks) where ticketmonster locks up and the server fucks up and here i am without tickets to numerous concerts.....and im not the only one....maybe u have a special computer?
read my previous post on how to get tickets. DO NOT i repeat DO NOT rely on the internet or phone. either go to the venue (if possible) or go to a ticketmaster outlet. go there very early. it may seem ridiculous. but you know what? if people are willing to pay exhorbitant amounts of money for a show, do not expect it to be easy to obtain tickets. you know already that i agree with your thinking; these brokers are a bullshit situation. but instead of crying about how ticketmaser freezes up i figure out a way to procure tickets.
but it seems to me that the whole ToolArmy presale bullshit of creating an elitist TooL concert-going merchandise-buying society for those willing to pay the extra money for the alleged benefits is not an example of the band "caring".
especially because there are no presales
Scalpers manage to scalp loads of tikcets to will call only shows. They're pros.
In my experience, I remember way back when billy pumpkin was closing the main shop he tried to do will call only and here, in Toronto, scalpers where waving tickets around in front of the venue. so...
brockers have contracts with arenas, management companies, promoters, ect ad nauseum
blah blah blah
so, what specifically and not in general do you suggest be done in order to make you feel spiritually validated by TooL during this tour?
and if scalpers/brokers are increasing every year, then all i ask in return is some sort of way to combat them
This is what I'm talking about. You can tell the bands that care about their fans from the ones who don't by what they have tried. Pearl Jam, as was stated, at least tried leaving Ticketmaster to make it easier on their fans.
I'm not saying all Tool's shows should be will-call (at least not this tour), just that they have an attitude that is more empathetic than "Tough luck." And yossaricat, I saw Tool at the Auditorium Theatre during the pre-tour. You will note that they did not offer any will-call for any of the 'intimate setting' shows.
And I'm not upset about the fact that they don't care about their fans. The Tool fans are a source of steady income for 'em and I understand that there's no need for them to really care. They know that they will continue to buy products and go to shows just because it's branded as a Tool experience. I just find it silly that people are defending their actions by saying people aren't trying hard enough to get tickets or that it's out of the band's control.
__________________ "You see, for me [art]'s not one of life's ornaments, rococo relaxation to be greeted affably after a day of hard work; I'm inverted on this : for me it's my very breath, the one thing necessary, and all else is excretion and a latrine."
fan club tickets do work, so does will call. Or just print name on ticket and make person going in show i.d. I dont know about your Toronto example, but Springsteen does it now, Pearl Jam to some extent with their 10C tickets, these bands are doing something and it is working. The mini-tour Tool should have done something to limit scalping but I guess they blew it off for the most part. A lot of people had to pay a lot of money to get in, I think its unfortunate, makes bad blood between fans and the band and Im sure the band doesnt want/need a lot of pissed off fans.
edit: "Tool fans are a source of steady income for 'em and I understand that there's no need for them to really care."
there is a need for them to care, otherwise they are gonna be fucked as a band in short order, believe me you get enough disillusioned fans pretty soon you will have plenty of empty seats at the shows.
BTW- since we are on the topic any predictions on sell-outs/attendance for the tour?
Last edited by GeorgeinNY; 07-17-2006 at 05:59 AM..
1. Maynard, or whomever sent that reply.....just outright is conceeding that the entire ticketmaster system is fucked and yeah sometimes tickets go to ticket brokers and.....so be it. He is too busy conjuring lipan's to get on the phone to band management to...change the system.
2. If you don't get tickets, its not the end of the world. Seeing Tool do that shite setlist isnt the kind of life changing live experience you would have seen in 1996 or 2001.
or go to a ticketmaster outlet. go there very early.
That might work if you live near a TM outlet in the middle of nowhere, but any place, for instance, within 80 miles of Chicago ends up doing the ticket lottery, which scalpers seem to have a way of tyaking advantage of too.
2. If you don't get tickets, its not the end of the world. Seeing Tool do that shite setlist isnt the kind of life changing live experience you would have seen in 1996 or 2001.
That's about where I'm at. I'm not interested in hearing all of 10,000 Days plus 3 or 4 songs I like.
You live in Jackson. A trip to Bestbuy is a life changing experience.
Tool still plays the same songs, Just wait till the arena tour before you compare setlists from 1996-2001. Go through all the tours since 1992. The mini-your plays almost the same setlist everynight like this did this one.
You will note that they did not offer any will-call for any of the 'intimate setting' shows.
Wrong, they had will call at the Boston show.
As far as brokers getting tickets before they go on sale, most of those are tickets that are put aside for the promoter and the venue. They weren't even going to be available for sale, so you were never going to get those tickets anyways. How do you think the same radio stations are always giving away front row seats to every concert that comes to town? Do you think they wait in a line for tickets to go on sale and are just lucky enough to ALWAYS get front row? NO. They get them from either the promoter or from the venue. And for your information, most brokers and scalpers pool their tickets, so even though there might be 20+ different sites all selling 50 tickets each doesn't mean there are 1000+ tickets in the hands of brokers. I noticed this during the May shows.
You also have those people, as stated by sonnyboy11, who might have a subscription plan with the venue for the same seats to ALL shows at the venue in question. Even though they might not want to see a particular show, they'll buy the tickets for a show and sell them to a broker, and since that person already knows what seats he's going to have, the broker can then put the seats on sale before the actual on-sale date. Either way, those tickets were never going to be released to the general public, so you were never going to have access to those tickets.
As far as trying to do will-call only shows and having to show ID, thats the worst
fucking idea I've ever heard of. Here are my reasons behind it:
1. What if the person who bought the tickets dies before the actual show, how do you get the tickets?
2. What if the person who buys the tickets can't make the show due to a family emergency?
3. What if you don't have a credit card?
4. If you want to buy 4 tickets to a show, do you have to give the names of the all the people who are going? And what if 1 of those people decides he/she can't make it because of reason 1 or 2?
5. What if your out the night before the show and have your wallet or purse stolen, including the credit card you used to purchase the tickets? No show for you and your friends.
When I buy tickets, I want the tickets in my hands ASAP.
__________________ '09 TDN Fantasy Football Champion
'09/'10 TDN Fantasy Hockey Champion
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When I buy tickets, I want the tickets in my hands ASAP.
I agree with that 100% at least if I a bus stuck in my lung crossing the street one of my friends can use my tickets and celebrate my honor at the show. I dont want to lose my ID and not be able to go. (believe it or not, I lose my DL on a daily basis)
They had will call at City Center too, but that was only option, not requiered. When I got my ticket it was will call only because it was only 1 week prior to show so I think those tickets were will call only.
As for club tickets look at PJ 10 Club, you pick up tickets about 1 hour before the show, and the ticket is in your name, you need id to pick them up. Same with Springsteen - best seats is will call and you need 2 id, and you have to go in straight in to the show.
The world cup just passed had a pretty inticate system, they covered all your points, including death certificates, letters to the organizers etc. you had to show your passport/id to get in the game, you had your ticket ahead of time, your name was printed on the ticket, thats how they checked. If you decided you couldnt go you actually had to notify them ahead of time and your friend would get a new ticket printed in his name.
It's still a life changing experience, dont doubt that for a seconds
no dude....I'm sorry.
maybe like seeing Tool at Red Rocks in 2002 with Krimson might have been. Or Coachella in 99, or the club tour in 96.
but now.......eh. Let's make a deal, if Tool does the tour people want to see (2 + hours, showcasing 10k, Aenima, Lateralus, etc evenly).....then I will declere you lord and master of the universe. Somehow I just cant see the Fall tour being dramatically different. Sure we might see Wings/10,000 Days, but personally....that won't impress me, playing those tunes is expected.
Bringing back Parabola, Pushit, The Grudge, Third Eye, Eulogy, for the new generation of fans who obsess over those tunes as much as many of us did a bunch of years ago....would impress me.
maybe like seeing Tool at Red Rocks in 2002 with Krimson might have been. Or Coachella in 99, or the club tour in 96.
but now.......eh. Let's make a deal, if Tool does the tour people want to see (2 + hours, showcasing 10k, Aenima, Lateralus, etc evenly).....then I will declere you lord and master of the universe. Somehow I just cant see the Fall tour being dramatically different. Sure we might see Wings/10,000 Days, but personally....that won't impress me, playing those tunes is expected.
Bringing back Parabola, Pushit, The Grudge, Third Eye, Eulogy, for the new generation of fans who obsess over those tunes as much as many of us did a bunch of years ago....would impress me.
I got into tool in 2002 and my favorite Tool songs are Pushit, Eulogy, and H. I really think they will play H instead of 46 & 2 and Prison Sex instead of Sober. If i go to enough shows eventually i will hear Pushit and Eulogy.
We will get a vastly different setlist. Your just in denial probably hoping they dont because your not going.
See, that's the thing. It's not beyond their control. I really don't think they give a shit, and I think Maynard's response confirms that.
Tool is at a level of stardom where they can basically give their fans a big "fuck you" and they will still hit the top of the charts and sell out shows. They are famous enough now to rely solely on band loyalty to keep the money rolling in.
Tom Waits' tour next month, for example. His shows sell out right quick (he's actually playing here in Chicago the same place I saw Tool at), but the shows are Will Call, which means that only people actually buying the tickets will get in. Meaning no scalping.
These are simple measures to take to protect your fans from getting screwed over price, and so I reiterate: Tool doesn't care about their fans. Not that I care, I got into the last show for free and I ain't going to this one. I just wish to correct the view that it's "beyond their control."
Yup, but I can't blame them. The majority of their fans are morons, and whatever messages they've been trying to get across have already reached and made an impact on as many people as there's gonna be, so now they might as well pad their wallets to make a comfortable living. It's a buisness, live with it. They gives us a great product, we give back to them. They could have it differently, evidently they don't want to. Besides, with the music and packages alone it's worth it for me personally. I agree though that they could put more effort in, but they are human just like all of us, they are not any more special (aside from their musical talents). If any of us were in their situation I'm sure we'd do the same, take the money and go make a good life for ourselves and our family's. Tool don't OWE the fans anything.
We will get a vastly different setlist. Your just in denial probably hoping they dont because your not going.
I'm sorry, but no. He's right. The only possible major deviation from the spring/summer shows would be the addition of Wings & 10,000 Days. I also expect (at some point) to see Intension played. They might make Opiate a part of the standard set as well, and perhaps add in a song like Parabola as well, but don't go in thinking we're gonna see songs like Flood, Eulogy, Third Eye, Sweat, The Grudge, etc rotated in. This is unfortunate, but it's pretty much a reality. Unless as of now they are busing rehearsing, which we all pretty much know they are not.
Sorry, but if you're going to pull the hyper-capitalist card in favor of Tool, you can't end the paragraph saying that.
Business is 100% about owing your customer what they paid for.
If you pay Ford or Honda $20,000 for a vehicle, you should expect it to function exactly as advertised.
If you pay a company $600,000 to build your house....they owe you something that meets your realistic expectations.
If you pay a band $50 (or in some cases $300) for a ticket, and rake in a collective $300,000 or more from the audience, they had better come prepared to blow your fucking mind.
You pay 8 bucks for your tickets, expect maybe to be impressed by the beer selection at the venue.
Funny thing is, it's usually the bands charging 8 or 10 bucks for admission doing the real work.
Bands owe their fans a good performance, and to be treated like people at the venue. Most of us aren't asking for freindship and a tour of their house.
Tool have catered to a somewhat intelligent audience their entire career. If you're at the stage in your bands life where you feel like you can just walk out and expect accolades, then the people that made them millionaires have a right to gripe.
Last edited by Seven Deep; 07-17-2006 at 11:36 AM..
Sorry, but if you're going to pull the hyper-capitalist card in favor of Tool, you can't end the paragraph saying that.
If you pay Ford or Honda $20,000 for a vehicle, you should expect it to function exactly as advertised.
If you pay a company $600,000 to build your house....they owe you something that meets your realistic expectations.
If you pay a band $50 (or in some cases $300) for a ticket, and rake in a collective $300,000 or more from the audience, they had better come prepared to blow your fucking mind.
You pay 8 bucks for your tickets, expect maybe to be impressed by the beer selection at the venue.
Funny thing is, it's usually the bands charging 8 or 10 bucks for admission doing the real work.
Bands owe their fans a good performance, and to be treated like people at the venue. Most of us aren't asking for freindship and a tour of their house.
Tool have catered to a somewhat intelligent audience their entire career. If you're at the stage in your bands life where you feel like you can just walk out and expect accolades, then the people that made them millionaires have a right to gripe.
Personally, tickets last time cost me $320, and I was blown away by their live performances. I spent another $90 on merchandise, 2 shirts which are great and an awesome 50x50 full color poster. They gave me my money's worth, so what more can I ask for? I felt like I was treated well at the concert, there were even attendants and everything (I know this is the venue's doing, standard operating procedure, but still), and the band put on a stellar performance that I throroughly enjoyed and will always have fond memories of. Their music has brought me so much joy and happines sinto my life and has helped me in so many ways. Tool owes me nothing, I owe them nothing. I've bought their records, their shirts, their tickets, and they've delivered just like how I would expect them to. I'm sorry if this isn't the case for others.
maybe like seeing Tool at Red Rocks in 2002 with Krimson might have been. Or Coachella in 99, or the club tour in 96.
but now.......eh. Let's make a deal, if Tool does the tour people want to see (2 + hours, showcasing 10k, Aenima, Lateralus, etc evenly).....then I will declere you lord and master of the universe. Somehow I just cant see the Fall tour being dramatically different. Sure we might see Wings/10,000 Days, but personally....that won't impress me, playing those tunes is expected.
Bringing back Parabola, Pushit, The Grudge, Third Eye, Eulogy, for the new generation of fans who obsess over those tunes as much as many of us did a bunch of years ago....would impress me.
no dude, I'm sorry. Why the hell would they want to retread that old material when they have a brilliant new album to play? I do not have much interest in seeing them do the old stuff (it's nice and all) and I never saw them before this tour. All I mainly want to hear is 10,000 Days. Whether that puts me in a minority of Tool fans or not makes no difference because my way of thinking is what is in line with the band's way of thinking. I don't want a 'greatest hits' tour and they are not going to do one. period
edit- actually, this theatre tour they just did had plenty of old material, so I'm not sure what the problem is with some of you who want more. It was already too much for me since they did not play all of 10,000 Days.
Last edited by sonnyboy11; 07-17-2006 at 11:47 AM..
Sorry, but if you're going to pull the hyper-capitalist card in favor of Tool, you can't end the paragraph saying that.
Business is 100% about owing your customer what they paid for.
If you pay Ford or Honda $20,000 for a vehicle, you should expect it to function exactly as advertised.
If you pay a company $600,000 to build your house....they owe you something that meets your realistic expectations.
If you pay a band $50 (or in some cases $300) for a ticket, and rake in a collective $300,000 or more from the audience, they had better come prepared to blow your fucking mind.
You pay 8 bucks for your tickets, expect maybe to be impressed by the beer selection at the venue.
Funny thing is, it's usually the bands charging 8 or 10 bucks for admission doing the real work.
Bands owe their fans a good performance, and to be treated like people at the venue. Most of us aren't asking for freindship and a tour of their house.
Tool have catered to a somewhat intelligent audience their entire career. If you're at the stage in your bands life where you feel like you can just walk out and expect accolades, then the people that made them millionaires have a right to gripe.
very well said. I hate when people say "they dont owe you shit" oh really? last time i checked i was a paying customer (consumer) therefore the band (producer) did owe me something......
also, to reiterate what GeorgeinNY says, this will call thing is feasible, as now RHCP are doing that for their fan club presales. If you buy a ticket from the fan club your name is on it and you have to show ID to get your 2-4 tickets you purchased. That right there elminates hundres of scalpers.
Also, this whole "what if i die or lose my license" are you kidding me? The chances of that happening are nill to none. And if that is your reason to help support scalpers, when they live in a bubble and go to the DMV and buy 10 Drivers License. Thats ridiculous in my opinion to throw out unlikely situations to prevent these ideas from working
"but what if i shit my pants and i cant make it to the concert?" well thats your fucken fault buddy. i'm tired of people sympathizing for these dirty no-good scalpers who probably spend peoples hard earned money in horrific/illegal/unjustifiable ways. Why should some dude who has nothing to do with the band make tons of money of people and then you go around and support them or defend their actions. Thats just fucked up.
You are either a part of the problem or part of the solution. By saying "i'm tired of people bitching" then you're just part of the problem cuz you're not trying to help out or compromise new ideas. If TOOL really gave a fuck they'd do the will-call presale thing, or even just a fucken presale on Tool Army, but apparently they cant even do that. Yes I'm bitching, but i think i have a right to. So if you dont like it and want to defends scalpers, then i'm sorry you sympathize for people who are ripping people off instead of other people who enjoy the same music as you in your community.
