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Old 01-17-2003, 10:52 AM   #1
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Lateralus and Pi

I've always related this song to the movie Pi. If you haven't seen the movie, then it may be difficult to fully understand my babbling (may be difficult anyway). Everyone here should see the movie anyway - great flick.

As has already been stated in other threads, there is the whole Fibonacci sequence connection with the song. The original title, 987, is the 16th number in the sequence, and then there is the occurance of the sequence in the lyrics, which I will just briefly reiterate for anybody who hasn't read the other threads. Follow Maynard's very deliberate pauses in the way he sings the verses, and count the syllables bewteen pauses.

black (1)
then (1)
white are (2)
all I see (3)
in my infancy (5)
red and yellow then came to be (8)
reaching out to me (5)
lets me see (3)
there is (2)
so (1)
much (1)
more and (2)
beckons me (3)
to look through to these (5)
infinite possibilities (8)
as below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
drawn beyond the lines of reason (8)
push the envelope (5)
watch it bend (3)

It's basically sections of the beginning of sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8,13) going up then going down again.

In the movie Pi, the main character, Max, uses his computer to try to find mathematical patterns in the stock market, and it soon grows into an obsession when his computer malfunctions and spits out an enormous number that he doesn't know the meaning of. In his quest, he encouters this guy Lenny Meyer, who is part of a Jewish sect that is trying to decipher a hidden message from God in the Torah. They have a conversation that will take up a lot of space to copy and paste, but hopefully you will have the patience to read it:

LENNY MEYER
The Torah is just
a long string of numbers.
Some say that it's a long
code sent to us from God.

Satisfied, Lenny lights up a cigarette and takes a drag.

MAX
(Mildly impressed)
Kind of interesting.

LENNY MEYER
(Proud of himself)
Yeah, like take the
Hebrew word for, say, the
Garden of Eden, Kadem. Kuf,
Dalei Mem...Kuf is a
hundred. Daled, four Mem,
forty. They equal one hundred
and forty-four. Then take the
tree of knowledge...in
the garden, Aat Ha Haim, it
equals two hundred and
thirty-three. Now you can take
that number and...

MAX
They're Fibonacci numbers.

LENNY MEYER
Huh?

MAX
The Fibonacci sequence.
Italian mathematician, thirteenth
century. If you divide
a hundred and forty-four into
two hundred and thirty-three,
it approaches theta.

LENNY MEYER
Theta?

MAX
The Greek symbol for the
golden ratio. The golden
spiral.

Lenny exhales the smoke. Max quickly graphs the number on his Wall Street Journal.

LENNY MEYER
You're right, I never saw
that before. That's the series
you find in nature. Like the
face of a sunflower.

MAX
Wherever there's spirals.

LENNY MEYER
You see, there's math everywhere.

Lenny's smoke drifts by Max's eyes.

SLOW MOTION: MAX'S POV of smoke spirals spinning in front of him.

MAX
Math everywhere...

SLOW MOTION: Max looks down at his coffee cup. He pours cream into his coffee. It shoots up and mixes with the black coffee forming spirals in the mug.

The whole script of the movie can be found at http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/pi.html

Anyway, where I'm going with this is that I think the main point of the song Lateralus is in the chorus.

Over-thinking, over-analyzing separates the body from the mind.

I relate that one line to a rant that Sol, Max's mentor, goes on when Max's obsession with his search for the 216-digit number his computer spits out becomes apparent:

SOL
Hold on, you have to slow
down. You're losing it, you
have to take a breath. Listen
to yourself. You're connecting
a computer bug I had, a
computer bug you might have
had, and some religious
hogwash. If you want to find
the number two sixteen in the
world, you'll be able to pull
it out of anywhere. Two
hundred and sixteen steps
from your street comer to
your front door. Two hundred
and sixteen seconds you spend
riding on the elevator. When
your mind becomes obsessed
with anything, it will filter
everything else out and find
examples of that thing
everywhere. Three hundred and
twenty, four hundred and
fifty, twenty-three.
Whatever! You've chosen two
sixteen and you'll find it
everywhere in nature. But
Max, as soon as you discard
scientific rigor, you are no
longer a mathematician. You
become a numerologist. What
you need to do is take a
break from your research. You
need it. You deserve it
Here's a hundred dollars, I
want you to take it. If ,you
won't take it, borrow it.
Either way, take a break.
Spend it however you like as
long as it falls in the
category of vacation. Real
world stuff, okay. No math.

I think the point of the song is to say, here... we planted a section of the Fibonacci sequence in the syllables of the lyrics. Like the character in the movie, you are going to find mathematical patterns in everything, but once you become to obsessed and over-analytical of everything around you, you are going to find certain patterns everywhere. Not because they are really there, but because you are looking for it to the exclusion of everything else. When that happens, you lose sight of the real purpose of life, which is just to enjoy it. As is the case with the song, the real purpose is not to "over-analyze" it and try to find mathematical patterns or some sort of deep meaning to the lyrics, but rather just to enjoy the song for what it is, one of the best songs ever written.
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Old 01-17-2003, 04:05 PM   #2
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You just beat me too it, I was going to post something about the Fibonacci sequence in Lateralus... Oh, well. I've never heard of this movie, but the script goes perfect with the song.
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Old 01-17-2003, 11:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by KurtSurge
You just beat me too it, I was going to post something about the Fibonacci sequence in Lateralus... Oh, well. I've never heard of this movie, but the script goes perfect with the song.

you definatly should see this movie...its actually one of the top 3 movies i'd recomend to see...and that's saying something, considering i don't spend much time infront of a tv screen...

and skywarp....thanks for the link to the script...
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Old 01-21-2003, 04:14 PM   #4
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The director of Requiem for a dream did this movie too. Another excellent movie

As for your conection between the two is very impressive. Im sure you could do this with more movies relating to other songs.

Keep up the good work Skywarp
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Old 01-21-2003, 04:31 PM   #5
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people need to take the simple message in your last paragraph to heart. i've seen far too many ridiculous ideas lately, whether it's movie synchs or math that doesn't have anything to do with tool's music (though a lot of it does, e.g. the fibonacci sequence in lateralus). dig as deep as you like into something, and i won't throw out the possibility of an idea unless it's been clearly proven, but just because something is possible doesn't make it true. like Max, you'll start to see patterns where they don't exist
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Old 01-22-2003, 11:26 AM   #6
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Definitely an intersting connection. I love the movie Pi, i think that's a movie Tool would enjoy. Darren Aronofsky, the director of Pi and Requiem For A Dream, is one of my favorite directors. But like Sol says, if you fix your mind on one thing you become obssesed with it. I think you can take many movies and connect them with Tool songs, and if you want to find connections you will, regardless if they are there or not.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:37 AM   #7
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Re: Lateralus and Pi

The connections are normal because both used quabbalah. cf. "The Fountain" too, with the tree of life, meditation, etc.
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