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Godin
08-15-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iota
^ OMG, in the post previous to this one (in another thread), I also mentioned the Matrix trilogy... spooky. I'd love to hear examples of the phenomenons...
...a few weeks later, I finally respond. I hope my following rant somehow addresses your request for me to elaborate on "the phenomenons" we originally brought up regarding the Matrix movies.. and perhaps it clarifies how I could possibly consider the "10,000 days" album as having mythological themes embedded within it.



Quote:
"If you take different mythologies from different cultures, the names may change and the story lines may vary but there is always something in common. "
-MJK

Well, as far as my understanding goes, these mythological "phenomenons" that are embedded within stories only take affect within the viewer/listener of the art (whether it's a movie or a song or a written narrative) if the viewer/listener is aware of their existence, if he is receiving the story with an awareness that there are common mythical themes purposefully at work within the story, or perhaps the song.

For instance, many people watch the Matrix movies and are completely unaffected by the series of events in the movies, they are completely oblivious to the fact that the Wichowskis have incorporated common mythical themes within the plot of the story for the purpose of emotionally affecting the viewer in some way. They do not notice any similarities between the plight of Neo and their own plight in life, or maybe between Neo and the supposed plight of Jesus. However, if you come to the Matrix movies with a pre-existing awareness that they are somehow related to mythology, and you are able to liken his plight to your own, then you are much more likely to receive the intended emotional affects (the catharsis, as some people say) from those literary/mythological themes. How much emotion you feel is of course relative to how closely you identify with the events in any particular movie/song.

One of the phenomenon's associated with the common affects of mythology on the receiver is that of identifying yourself with the hero figure. Certain things, if not many things, about the hero figure's life are similar to certain things about your own life, so you "introject" the events of the story within yourself and experience it all inwardly as if it were not separate from yourself, as if it were all happening within the world of your mind. It's thought that we are more able to have an emotional release while living vicariously off of a hero myth than we'd be able to if we actually went through the ordeal ourselves. This is because of our distance from real life intensity, from the real life need to actually respond in a life or death situation... the experience of the ordeal is tempered because we at some level know it is not really happening. Our guard becomes let down and we are able to go through the emotional experience at a much more controlled level because we are living vicariously than if we were the ones who were actually facing the hero's problems in our real lives. If we were experiencing the hero's ordeal in our real lives, and not vicariously through a narrative story, the situation would be too intense and we'd block out the flood of experiencing those intense emotions.


ANYWAY, way back in this thread I made the suggestion that the "10,000 days" album might be an attempt to affect such an emotional response from the listeners, or at least certain types of listeners; the ones who can identify in some way with the type of person who is characterized on tracks 7-8. These tracks very specifically characterize an anonymous individual who is trying to be a hero, but falling short. I used to believe also that tracks 3-4 were a masked attempt at getting the listener to identify with the "you" figure in those tracks as well (which at the end of #4 we become disillusioned and find out it is Judith Marie), but now I just think it's not worth the struggle to try and prove since it's very unlikely.

The general theme in tracks 3-4 is that an individual is a "passionate spirit...with a light in [their] eyes that could end all lies", and that they are the "only one who could hold [their] heads up high, to shake [their] fists at the gates". In other words, the "you" figure in tracks 3-4 is being implicated as a hero figure who needs to overcome their "10,000 days in the fire". This is typical for hero myths... that the hero must overcome some overbearing force.

I speculated that MJK might be working with casting a version of the hero myth within his lyrics for this album because other popular recording artists have apparently been doing it, each in their own ways. These other recording artists have casted the listener as a savior-type figure who needs to overcome their obstacles in life... and these artists have been carrying on this lyrical theme consistently throughout many of their albums.. so, I guess I began considering that MJK was incorporating this theme into his lyrics as well... just in a very original way.

I no longer really care to look much further into this possibility. It's far-fetched in the particular case of Tool. If anything, with this album they are CRITICIZING how certain other artists have taken on the role of sympathizers by incorporating this "you, the listener, are the hero" theme into their lyrics.

Quote:
Ignorant fibbers in the congregation, gathered around spewing sympathy. Spare me.
I considered here that he might be referring with "the congregation" to the surrounding trend of other popular culture artists, who offer such general sympathy in their lyrics. ex, "look how the stars shine for you" (Coldplay), "you be my angel, YOU" (Dave Matthews), "I'm handing it over. I'm saying that you're the only one" (Rufus Wainwright). All of these artists, and probably many more, continually offer sympathy in their lyrics that are meant to cast the listener of their music in the hero role within their own lives, which then is meant to have a positive emotional affect on that listener if they take the music to heart. :-\

MJK might be saying with the overall message of this album, "hey, if you think you're being cast as the 'chosen one' from this album, then you must be into some serious deadhead chemistry. I threw you a psychological curveball, mofo!".

-Godin

Last edited by Godin; 08-15-2006 at 05:32 PM..
Old 08-15-2006, 12:27 PM   #483
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Re: 04 - 10,000 Days (Wings pt 2) lyrics

Quote:
Originally Posted by iota
^ OMG, in the post previous to this one (in another thread), I also mentioned the Matrix trilogy... spooky. I'd love to hear examples of the phenomenons...
...a few weeks later, I finally respond. I hope my following rant somehow addresses your request for me to elaborate on "the phenomenons" we originally brought up regarding the Matrix movies.. and perhaps it clarifies how I could possibly consider the "10,000 days" album as having mythological themes embedded within it.



Quote:
"If you take different mythologies from different cultures, the names may change and the story lines may vary but there is always something in common. "
-MJK

Well, as far as my understanding goes, these mythological "phenomenons" that are embedded within stories only take affect within the viewer/listener of the art (whether it's a movie or a song or a written narrative) if the viewer/listener is aware of their existence, if he is receiving the story with an awareness that there are common mythical themes purposefully at work within the story, or perhaps the song.

For instance, many people watch the Matrix movies and are completely unaffected by the series of events in the movies, they are completely oblivious to the fact that the Wichowskis have incorporated common mythical themes within the plot of the story for the purpose of emotionally affecting the viewer in some way. They do not notice any similarities between the plight of Neo and their own plight in life, or maybe between Neo and the supposed plight of Jesus. However, if you come to the Matrix movies with a pre-existing awareness that they are somehow related to mythology, and you are able to liken his plight to your own, then you are much more likely to receive the intended emotional affects (the catharsis, as some people say) from those literary/mythological themes. How much emotion you feel is of course relative to how closely you identify with the events in any particular movie/song.

One of the phenomenon's associated with the common affects of mythology on the receiver is that of identifying yourself with the hero figure. Certain things, if not many things, about the hero figure's life are similar to certain things about your own life, so you "introject" the events of the story within yourself and experience it all inwardly as if it were not separate from yourself, as if it were all happening within the world of your mind. It's thought that we are more able to have an emotional release while living vicariously off of a hero myth than we'd be able to if we actually went through the ordeal ourselves. This is because of our distance from real life intensity, from the real life need to actually respond in a life or death situation... the experience of the ordeal is tempered because we at some level know it is not really happening. Our guard becomes let down and we are able to go through the emotional experience at a much more controlled level because we are living vicariously than if we were the ones who were actually facing the hero's problems in our real lives. If we were experiencing the hero's ordeal in our real lives, and not vicariously through a narrative story, the situation would be too intense and we'd block out the flood of experiencing those intense emotions.


ANYWAY, way back in this thread I made the suggestion that the "10,000 days" album might be an attempt to affect such an emotional response from the listeners, or at least certain types of listeners; the ones who can identify in some way with the type of person who is characterized on tracks 7-8. These tracks very specifically characterize an anonymous individual who is trying to be a hero, but falling short. I used to believe also that tracks 3-4 were a masked attempt at getting the listener to identify with the "you" figure in those tracks as well (which at the end of #4 we become disillusioned and find out it is Judith Marie), but now I just think it's not worth the struggle to try and prove since it's very unlikely.

The general theme in tracks 3-4 is that an individual is a "passionate spirit...with a light in [their] eyes that could end all lies", and that they are the "only one who could hold [their] heads up high, to shake [their] fists at the gates". In other words, the "you" figure in tracks 3-4 is being implicated as a hero figure who needs to overcome their "10,000 days in the fire". This is typical for hero myths... that the hero must overcome some overbearing force.

I speculated that MJK might be working with casting a version of the hero myth within his lyrics for this album because other popular recording artists have apparently been doing it, each in their own ways. These other recording artists have casted the listener as a savior-type figure who needs to overcome their obstacles in life... and these artists have been carrying on this lyrical theme consistently throughout many of their albums.. so, I guess I began considering that MJK was incorporating this theme into his lyrics as well... just in a very original way.

I no longer really care to look much further into this possibility. It's far-fetched in the particular case of Tool. If anything, with this album they are CRITICIZING how certain other artists have taken on the role of sympathizers by incorporating this "you, the listener, are the hero" theme into their lyrics.

Quote:
Ignorant fibbers in the congregation, gathered around spewing sympathy. Spare me.
I considered here that he might be referring with "the congregation" to the surrounding trend of other popular culture artists, who offer such general sympathy in their lyrics. ex, "look how the stars shine for you" (Coldplay), "you be my angel, YOU" (Dave Matthews), "I'm handing it over. I'm saying that you're the only one" (Rufus Wainwright). All of these artists, and probably many more, continually offer sympathy in their lyrics that are meant to cast the listener of their music in the hero role within their own lives, which then is meant to have a positive emotional affect on that listener if they take the music to heart. :-\

MJK might be saying with the overall message of this album, "hey, if you think you're being cast as the 'chosen one' from this album, then you must be into some serious deadhead chemistry. I threw you a psychological curveball, mofo!".

-Godin

Last edited by Godin; 08-15-2006 at 05:32 PM..
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