Originally Posted by Jimmeny

You said this album lacks an edge, but still gave it 9/10, and the first person disagrees with you. That's abit silly.

Spook mentioned that Tool still have their edge because the music is 'much' more complex than ever. In my opinion, the songs are much more combersome (which is a criticism people who weren't Tool fans had of Lateralus) and while their are FLASHES of greater complexity, it's not all together more complex. Rosetta Stoned has that riff a 7mins that everyone talks about, but it's only for 1 minute.

I'm not sure where I fit in with your ideas about youth Gargantuan. I'm 21. Not a teenager, but I assume young enough to fit into that demographic within your ideas? I was introduced to Tool a few months after the release of Lateralus. I loved it, then I heard Aenima and thought it was fantastic, I became a bigger fan of Tool than the person who introduced me to them. I think Opiate is fantastic, and I probably prefer that to Undertow. The sound of Undertow feels really dated and steeped in post grunge muddiness that just doesn't do much for me. A few classic songs, of course.

So I'm not a late-30-something, but I'm also abit older than the current 'youth'. Also, I'm not your average music listener. Like alot of the people on this forum, I am a musician (not in that pretentious way, it's just easier to use the word musician than say I am a player of instruments). I appreciate Tool for their use and skill at their instruments, their ability to craft and their ability to shed the ego for the benefit of the music.

And I think, therein, lies the problem for me.

While Lateralus felt like a breath of fresh air, and you really felt an appreciation for having 5 years out and freshening their approach, I feel it's had the opposite effect here. They sound like 4 individuals moreso on 10,000 Days than in any other album. Of course, someone will quote that out of context and say 'Well what about Rosetta Stoned?' And, as I say, there are moments of brilliance on this album. But it's not an album of brilliance like Lateralus is. The magic you describe is, for me, that feeling that Lateralus is ONe SINGULAR sonic experience produced by 4 musicians but having an existence over and above each individual. I feel this isn't there on 10,000 Days. They are still a great band, they are still great individual musicians, but they never fully gel to form 'Tool', only flashes of 'Tool' shine through during passages of standard (for Tool) musical work.

Maybe Lateralus was bad for them. They obviously realised the shadow and deliberately put the album there with the shades of riffs (people don't like the term recycled, so I use shades of riff, I don't want to debate this any more, I'm very pleased people can't hear them, because they have taken away an air of originality about Tool for me). After 5 years, the guys can play, but the songs are generally combersome and plodding, there's no thread of genius, just a few flashes of class.