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paluka
09-09-2006, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningOne View Post

So throw Christianity out the door for a moment. Can anyone say that the Occult (and I don't mean Devil worship) really offers realistic solutions to man's problems? Aleister Crowley was, and I didn't know the guy--do your own research--seemingly a dirtbag of a man. He was racist, chauvinist, a drug addict and sexual deviant. I've read that his last words were something along the lines of "I'm an unhappy man."

So this opens a can of worms as to the responsibilty of an artist. I just can't see how exposing younger or more vulnerable, impressionable fans to this kind of influence can make the world a better place. And I'm not talking about blaming Ozzy for Suicide Solution. Tool seems to genuinely want to make the world a different place. I want to say *better* place, but if this is the direction they want to point their fans, I'm not so sure.

Again--everyone can make their own decision. That's a wonderful thing. But a child cannot always make a mature decision. Bottom line. I mean seriously, if Danny Carey wants to find the entrance to "Hell," whatever that may be, what does he think he's gonna do? Send a postcard? Take a motorized tour? If he channels energies and draws upon mystic forces and summons a "daemon," whatever that is, are there no consequences? Isn't he tapping into a darker, malevolent force? I don't see qualities like peace and tolerance resulting from such an act. So if they incorporate this stuff into their music, what good can come from listening to it?

I don't know the answers to these questions. I don't think there are solutions, at least not easy ones. But I do think Tool itself is one of the authorities that should be "questioned". They'd probably agree. And if anyone thinks that no one puts any real value into this music, you need look no farther than some of topics and posts on this website to see just how much real religious value people infuse into this band's music. Maybe you and I don't, but click around.


where do you get your info from? Are you serious with this shit? First off suicide solution was an anti suicide song. Who fucking cares if crowley said he was unhappy (lots of people are unhappy). How was crowley a dirtbag? Because he did drugs, studied magick, or because of his sexual encounters? Mysticism is a great thing. Its what christianity is missing. And if you are so worried about childrens vulnerable minds then shouldn't you be preaching (no pun in ten did) the same shit to the churchs and any other forms of authority?

Also about making the world a better place. Fundamentalist Christians are huge part of fucking it up. Nuclear armament and trying to stop technological advances in science (that would help people) being the big two.

Lastly the musicians you mentioned are a big part in my life. Black Sabbath, Led Zepellin, Tool (and others not mentioned) were all at one time viewed as being satan worshipping music. But the truth is they have helped me and millions of others through rough times and displayed their wisdom(heart).


Zep
"And if you feel that you can't go on. And your will's sinkin' low
Just believe and you can't go wrong.
In the light you will find the road. You will find the road "

Sabbath
"So believe what I tell you;
It's the only way you'll find in the end
Just believe in yourself you know you really shouldn't have to pretend
Don't let those empty people try and interfere with your mind
Just live your life and leave them all behind"

Tool
"So crucify the ego before it's far too late to leave behind this place, so negative and blind and cynical
And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable "
Old 09-09-2006, 03:52 AM   #42
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Re: Tool and the Occult

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningOne View Post

So throw Christianity out the door for a moment. Can anyone say that the Occult (and I don't mean Devil worship) really offers realistic solutions to man's problems? Aleister Crowley was, and I didn't know the guy--do your own research--seemingly a dirtbag of a man. He was racist, chauvinist, a drug addict and sexual deviant. I've read that his last words were something along the lines of "I'm an unhappy man."

So this opens a can of worms as to the responsibilty of an artist. I just can't see how exposing younger or more vulnerable, impressionable fans to this kind of influence can make the world a better place. And I'm not talking about blaming Ozzy for Suicide Solution. Tool seems to genuinely want to make the world a different place. I want to say *better* place, but if this is the direction they want to point their fans, I'm not so sure.

Again--everyone can make their own decision. That's a wonderful thing. But a child cannot always make a mature decision. Bottom line. I mean seriously, if Danny Carey wants to find the entrance to "Hell," whatever that may be, what does he think he's gonna do? Send a postcard? Take a motorized tour? If he channels energies and draws upon mystic forces and summons a "daemon," whatever that is, are there no consequences? Isn't he tapping into a darker, malevolent force? I don't see qualities like peace and tolerance resulting from such an act. So if they incorporate this stuff into their music, what good can come from listening to it?

I don't know the answers to these questions. I don't think there are solutions, at least not easy ones. But I do think Tool itself is one of the authorities that should be "questioned". They'd probably agree. And if anyone thinks that no one puts any real value into this music, you need look no farther than some of topics and posts on this website to see just how much real religious value people infuse into this band's music. Maybe you and I don't, but click around.


where do you get your info from? Are you serious with this shit? First off suicide solution was an anti suicide song. Who fucking cares if crowley said he was unhappy (lots of people are unhappy). How was crowley a dirtbag? Because he did drugs, studied magick, or because of his sexual encounters? Mysticism is a great thing. Its what christianity is missing. And if you are so worried about childrens vulnerable minds then shouldn't you be preaching (no pun in ten did) the same shit to the churchs and any other forms of authority?

Also about making the world a better place. Fundamentalist Christians are huge part of fucking it up. Nuclear armament and trying to stop technological advances in science (that would help people) being the big two.

Lastly the musicians you mentioned are a big part in my life. Black Sabbath, Led Zepellin, Tool (and others not mentioned) were all at one time viewed as being satan worshipping music. But the truth is they have helped me and millions of others through rough times and displayed their wisdom(heart).


Zep
"And if you feel that you can't go on. And your will's sinkin' low
Just believe and you can't go wrong.
In the light you will find the road. You will find the road "

Sabbath
"So believe what I tell you;
It's the only way you'll find in the end
Just believe in yourself you know you really shouldn't have to pretend
Don't let those empty people try and interfere with your mind
Just live your life and leave them all behind"

Tool
"So crucify the ego before it's far too late to leave behind this place, so negative and blind and cynical
And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable "
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