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SpiralOut34's Avatar SpiralOut34
02-19-2014, 03:19 PM
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I won't argue that Danny Carey isn't an ardent student of the Occult, or deny his deep interest in Crowley's work. I can't imagine the cost of his collection of the man's literature, and it shows he is/was deeply interested in that particular teaching. I highly doubt Danny supports ideas such as this, but considering the fact that you've only included these highly concerning pieces of his writings, there is little for us to say, "Ah, this is an understandable point for Danny to be interested in and practice." You can't judge the entirety of someone's morality based on two things that they said, and people are not one-sided. If you want a personal example of this, if I had only read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament, I would've viewed the Christian God as unforgiving, brutal, and arguably cruel. If I had taken something from the New Testament, I probably would be far more forgiving of the actions of that same God. It is unfair to judge the entirety of the work from singular incidents, and considering few of us have read the writings of Crowley (and I imagine those who have don't particularly care to argue these points) we aren't seeing all sides of the issue.

But as to the rest of Tool:

It would be unfair to presume that all of them support ideas such as this. It would be unfair to assume that all of them were interested in making wine, or going to WWE games, or reading the literature of famous Occultists. They are individuals and one message from the writings of an author one of them admires does not mean that that message is being conveyed in their music, supported by them as a whole, etc. The men contradict one another talking to reporters when they say albums will be out--you can't expect them to all have the same views on an author, or support his ideas unanimously. While there have been several instances of the band doing things in pictures or videos that suggest their interest in Occultism early on (particularly during the Lateralus era) they have also grown as people and people's interests change.

Finally, they aren't telling anyone to go out and practice Magik. They aren't encouraging sacrifices, burning incense at concerts (that's not what the crowd's smoking, either!) to represent blood, and they certainly aren't encouraging their audience to go out and pick up the literature of Occultists. From the basic amount I've read about Occultism, it is a particular interest that encourages the individual to learn and make decisions about what they wish to adapt. It has a lot to do with the will of the student and their sincerity, and I imagine rationally speaking, people would also include their moral standpoint when considering things like this and make a decision on that as well.

TL;DR: Not enough information here to make judgments on Crowley, the views of Danny Carey, and certainly not the views of the band as a whole. They're not encouraging anyone to go out and sacrifice their children. If you want to study Occultism, you better be ready to read a LOT of material and parse through that.
__________________
"Repugnant is the creature who would squander his ability..."

Tool - June 20, 2010 - A Perfect Circle - July 22, 2011 - Tool - January 21, 2012 -
Nine Inch Nails - November 5, 2013 - Skinny Puppy - January 30, 2014 - Tool - March 24, 2014 - Tool - January 13, 2016

Last edited by SpiralOut34; 02-19-2014 at 03:20 PM..
Old 02-19-2014, 03:19 PM   #11
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Re: Danny Carey/Aleister Crowley Relation

I won't argue that Danny Carey isn't an ardent student of the Occult, or deny his deep interest in Crowley's work. I can't imagine the cost of his collection of the man's literature, and it shows he is/was deeply interested in that particular teaching. I highly doubt Danny supports ideas such as this, but considering the fact that you've only included these highly concerning pieces of his writings, there is little for us to say, "Ah, this is an understandable point for Danny to be interested in and practice." You can't judge the entirety of someone's morality based on two things that they said, and people are not one-sided. If you want a personal example of this, if I had only read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament, I would've viewed the Christian God as unforgiving, brutal, and arguably cruel. If I had taken something from the New Testament, I probably would be far more forgiving of the actions of that same God. It is unfair to judge the entirety of the work from singular incidents, and considering few of us have read the writings of Crowley (and I imagine those who have don't particularly care to argue these points) we aren't seeing all sides of the issue.

But as to the rest of Tool:

It would be unfair to presume that all of them support ideas such as this. It would be unfair to assume that all of them were interested in making wine, or going to WWE games, or reading the literature of famous Occultists. They are individuals and one message from the writings of an author one of them admires does not mean that that message is being conveyed in their music, supported by them as a whole, etc. The men contradict one another talking to reporters when they say albums will be out--you can't expect them to all have the same views on an author, or support his ideas unanimously. While there have been several instances of the band doing things in pictures or videos that suggest their interest in Occultism early on (particularly during the Lateralus era) they have also grown as people and people's interests change.

Finally, they aren't telling anyone to go out and practice Magik. They aren't encouraging sacrifices, burning incense at concerts (that's not what the crowd's smoking, either!) to represent blood, and they certainly aren't encouraging their audience to go out and pick up the literature of Occultists. From the basic amount I've read about Occultism, it is a particular interest that encourages the individual to learn and make decisions about what they wish to adapt. It has a lot to do with the will of the student and their sincerity, and I imagine rationally speaking, people would also include their moral standpoint when considering things like this and make a decision on that as well.

TL;DR: Not enough information here to make judgments on Crowley, the views of Danny Carey, and certainly not the views of the band as a whole. They're not encouraging anyone to go out and sacrifice their children. If you want to study Occultism, you better be ready to read a LOT of material and parse through that.
__________________
"Repugnant is the creature who would squander his ability..."

Tool - June 20, 2010 - A Perfect Circle - July 22, 2011 - Tool - January 21, 2012 -
Nine Inch Nails - November 5, 2013 - Skinny Puppy - January 30, 2014 - Tool - March 24, 2014 - Tool - January 13, 2016

Last edited by SpiralOut34; 02-19-2014 at 03:20 PM..
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