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Carbonatedgravy
08-10-2006, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredg
How can there be a rejection though? The paradox of the song is that humans should self-reflect on the way concsiousness entered into the mix. This would mean that humans ought to try to understand where we came from (ex. Pure as we begin). However, Maynard also realizes that many people actually don't reflect on human existence ( ex. Forge a blade to slay the stranger, Take whatever we desire).

Maynard figures that since we came from the Universe, we are a product of the Universe, therefore, act accordingly to the process of how the Universe functions
( ex: Pure as we begin
Here we have a stone
Gather, place, [erase, so / a razor]
Shelter turned to home

Pure as we begin
Here we have a stone
Throw to stay the stranger
Swore to crush his bones)

This would mean humans are impersonal and hostile by nature, but also can use consciousness for more productive things, such as using a rock to build a house instead of killing someone. The only real way to get back to our pure existence is by going back to our basic state (Pure as we begin, Move by will alone, Leave as we come in, Pure as light, return to one - MOVE BY WILL ALONE)
I'm not sure how that contradicts what I said. But just to clarify in case I'm not understanding you, I believe that by nature humans are born hostile and selfish. We have the unique ability to override our instincts for the better of humanity, but this choice contrasts what our instincts tell us to do. Ideally we would have the strength and morality to lean towards kindness and peace due to our superior intellect, but historically it just doesn't work out that way. All desires and all drives are exclusively in existence for the preservation of the self. So we're only born "pure" in a certain context. We haven't done anything sinful at birth, but we're all born with evil inclination. The only thing I think you and I disagree on is the motive behind the "Pure as we begin" line. You seem to be instilling hope into the line whereas I am not.
Old 08-10-2006, 07:58 AM   #19
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Re: Move by will alone...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredg
How can there be a rejection though? The paradox of the song is that humans should self-reflect on the way concsiousness entered into the mix. This would mean that humans ought to try to understand where we came from (ex. Pure as we begin). However, Maynard also realizes that many people actually don't reflect on human existence ( ex. Forge a blade to slay the stranger, Take whatever we desire).

Maynard figures that since we came from the Universe, we are a product of the Universe, therefore, act accordingly to the process of how the Universe functions
( ex: Pure as we begin
Here we have a stone
Gather, place, [erase, so / a razor]
Shelter turned to home

Pure as we begin
Here we have a stone
Throw to stay the stranger
Swore to crush his bones)

This would mean humans are impersonal and hostile by nature, but also can use consciousness for more productive things, such as using a rock to build a house instead of killing someone. The only real way to get back to our pure existence is by going back to our basic state (Pure as we begin, Move by will alone, Leave as we come in, Pure as light, return to one - MOVE BY WILL ALONE)
I'm not sure how that contradicts what I said. But just to clarify in case I'm not understanding you, I believe that by nature humans are born hostile and selfish. We have the unique ability to override our instincts for the better of humanity, but this choice contrasts what our instincts tell us to do. Ideally we would have the strength and morality to lean towards kindness and peace due to our superior intellect, but historically it just doesn't work out that way. All desires and all drives are exclusively in existence for the preservation of the self. So we're only born "pure" in a certain context. We haven't done anything sinful at birth, but we're all born with evil inclination. The only thing I think you and I disagree on is the motive behind the "Pure as we begin" line. You seem to be instilling hope into the line whereas I am not.
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