eternal

[learist]

I like to think that this song is about how we are all where we are by choice. that this life is a learning experience for our souls. Just one moment to our souls, who are eternal.
"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment remember we are eternal all this pain is an illusion."

[Windir]

Explain the, 'all this pain is an illusion', part.

That has nothing to do with our souls being eternal.

[learist]

Mr. webster defines illusion as:
"(1) : a misleading image presented to the vision (2) : something that deceives or misleads intellectually b (1) : perception of something objectively existing in such a way as to cause misinterpretation of its actual nature"

So, the way I see it, to our souls there is no pain. Our souls can only experiance pain if they are in a body.

[Windir]

How could some one live if his soul isn't in his body?!
I thought that was a part of eternity?

[learist]

ok so i didnt do a very good job explaining what i meant. I'm just lazy. So, here gos:

" We barley remember who or what came before this precious moment, choosing to be here right now hold on, stay inside. This holy reality, this holy experiance. Choosing to be here."

Ok, to me this means that our souls chose to become living beings and that once we are born very few of us remember what we did in our past lives.

"Alive, I. In this holy reality, in this holy experiance. Choosing to be here. This body holding me, be my reminder that I am not alone in this body, this body holding me, felling eternal."

When we were all young and ignorant and the world was much simpler to us, most of us acted like we were invincible. Like noting bad would ever happen.

"Twirling round with this familiar parable. Spinning weaving round each new experiance. Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing."

I guess we should all realize that death really isn't the end and life is short so we should live it to the fullest.

"This bodyholding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment remember, we are eternal all this pain is and illusion."

Whenever I hear this part I get an image of someone on their death-bed. They know they will die soon, but the thing you need to remember is that we are eternal. I hope this makes sense. It does to me.

[learist]

ok look. Our bodies may not be eternal, but our souls are. We live and we die and we live again. So, what's the point of being carful about everything. We should all live day to day as if it is our last and be thankful even if it is. being that our souls are eternal, this one life that we are curently in is just a moment to our souls.

[Windir]

I don't think it's ever been proven that we return after we die.

It could be that our souls are eternal though.
Maybe it could have something to so with our spirits, I think they could still be around when someone dies.

The spirit is forming the soul for the most part, at least, that's what I think.
The soul contains everything that you are, your thoughts, your dreams, just all you every are/were.

Though it has never been proven we will return after we die, doesn't mean that it never happened before.
But how do we know if you allready lived before this life?
It could be possible that the things that seem to be done before (something like a flashback, that you have the feeling like you have done something before, but you don't remember when), are things you have experienced in your past life.

But I think we have discust this over a million times.

[SageBerkano]

I don't think it's ever been proven that we return after we die.

the most ironic thing (to me) is how everything in nature is so cyclic that reincarnation would actually make sense.


The spirit is forming the soul for the most part, at least, that's what I think.
The soul contains everything that you are, your thoughts, your dreams, just all you every are/were.

i always think of them as one and the same, perhaps with the spirit less more of a ever-changing thing, more like a mood... ur heart?

But I think we have discust this over a million times.

*hangs head* -mumbles apology-

[Windir]

the most ironic thing (to me) is how everything in nature is so cyclic that reincarnation would actually make sense.


Irony can't make your opinion.

[SpentAndSighing]

Irony can't make your opinion.

Why the hell not? An opinion can be influenced by anything: what someone says, sees, hears. Irony can shape someone's opinion just as much as anything else. This was merely someone's observation about the world around them.

Alot of the 'opinions' I read on here may seem a little... out there. But it doesnt make it wrong. So many people come here and are so staunch about what they think is right. Come on folks - you registered to discuss, not to tell everyone else how wrong they are.

Windir, I hope I didn't piss you off.

G'day.

[JTCrace]

I am choosing to respond to the question of, "How do we know if we have lived past lives?"

Many people "believe" they have lived past lives. Believing something is very, very different than actually knowing something. At one point in my life I "believed" that I had lived past lives before. Maybe it was a wild guess, maybe it was my intuition informing me, I do not know. In regards to past lives one of friends always asks, "Can you really get this fucked up in only one lifetime?"

However my belief in past lives did at one point turn into knowledge. I was being counselled and the counsellor was asking me a question if there were any associations with a particular drug I had used. I said yes, I had experienced chest pains from this drug. He then asked me to locate an incident when I had experienced chest pains. I then located one in this lifetime. He asked me to locate an earlier, similar event. I found myself recalling how I had died in my last life. You see, I had experienced pretty intense chest pain and pressure for many years in this life. But after I recalled my physical death in my last life, the pains vanished, poof, no more. That's right, they were gone. It is truly amazing the kind of decisions one makes when one is dying, decisions that can continue beyond lifetimes. Dying is a rather traumatic experience for most people.

Another recall happened almost spontaneously. A vision came into my mind, and in it I was working with some sort of white powder. I was going to tell him that I was handling talcum powder and then it came to me--I was doing some sort of alchemical experiment!

We began running questioning on my associations with sex. For some reason I was disgusted with sex in this life. I began to recall my parents having sex, when they were actually conceiving me. I then had a couple more past life recalls concerning sex. The end result of this line of questioning--I have been extremely, extremely horny ever since. My instinct for sex had been liberated, deassociated with disgust. Unfortunately I have only been able to have sex with one person since that session, and I am sure you can all guess who that might be.

Of course an obvious retort to this would be: "Maybe all of this shit I was recalling was merely my imagination. Maybe I was making it up." Yeah, maybe. But the results are very real and that's all I am honestly concerned with.

[learist]

I'm so glad someone finally responded to the thread with news that they agreed with me. I do believe that we have had past lives, but this is only my opinion formed by others' beliefs. Some Tibetan monks have "tapped" into their memories of past lives and have come to the conclusion that we are all eternal beings. So I may not have any factual evidence, or any personal experiances to share, but I do know that it is a very healty belief. I used to fear death, now I almost welcome it.

I do also think it is interseting that all things in the universe run in cycles, and that everything in the universes is a bunch of fractals that make up bigger fractals. This suggests that the universe may be a cycle in itself, that the "big bang" has occured and will occur an infinite number of times.

I really have a bad habit of getting off the topic.
SORRY ABOUT THAT

[Windir]

Windir, I hope I didn't piss you off.

You didn't.

I just tried to say, that you can't form your opinion because of Irony, because, if reincarnation excists, it doesn't come forth out of it (Irony).

Maybe reincarnation excist in the nature, but that doesn't mean it does with human beings. (I know, humans are part of nature.)

[sircorn]

Our bodies may not be eternal, but our souls are. We live and we die and we live again.

It's a scientific fact that no energy ever dissipates. It jsut turns into new energy. You light a piece of paper on fire, the flame gets hot, the smoke wafts into the atmosphere, and the ashes make nice fertilizer.

Pain, or any other "thing" has no effect on this. Its just something we experience and should ignore and move through - because in the end, "pain" cannot leave a mark on the physical energy that will move on after our minds are dead. I think maynard is saying, apply this to your mentality and you'll be all set for anything.

[learist]

that's how Einstein explained why he believed in an after-life.

By the way, while we are on Einstein(this is for you WinDir), he said,"imagination is more important than knowledge."

[Windir]

*I need the delete button back* *sigh*

[neochrist]

i believe the title of all of tools songs is your first insight into maynards intended meaning, as in this song, parabola. a parabola is a symmetrical geometrical curve that goes infinitely in one direction coming closer and closer to an invisible line it never reaches or intersects. to me this relates to the song in several ways, as in when he says "i am not alone" the parabola has two lines going in the same direction, or when he says "we are eternal", relating that both sides of the line are eternal or infinite, coming closer and closer to there apparent goal but never quite reaching it as in, we all think that we will come to an end eventually but we will not, we will surpass that and go on infinitely.

[RRed]

It's a scientific fact that no energy ever dissipates. It jsut turns into new energy. You light a piece of paper on fire, the flame gets hot, the smoke wafts into the atmosphere, and the ashes make nice fertilizer.

Pain, or any other "thing" has no effect on this. Its just something we experience and should ignore and move through - because in the end, "pain" cannot leave a mark on the physical energy that will move on after our minds are dead. I think maynard is saying, apply this to your mentality and you'll be all set for anything.


Very true. Perhaps we experience a wholistic impression emblazened on our deep consciousness not necessarily reincarnation. To be technical, we are merely the energy that has recycled itself into what we see right now, that being our bodies. So in a sense we probably have a even broader memory of things past because we are merely the conglomeration of what we are and have breathed in, eaten, seen and experienced and as a dirrect descendents of our parents we are also the manifestation of what our mothers ate and drank while we where in the womb. Every thing, matter, has memory. Perhaps we are seeing much more than past lives. Maybe we are actually tapping into a eternal memory of sorts.

And I have to disagree about the pain thing. Pain is a legacy that we can 'choose' not to be a part of but it is diffinately something that is perpetual.

RRed

[reddish]

So in a sense we probably have a even broader memory of things past because we are merely the conglomeration of what we are and have breathed in, eaten, seen and experienced and as a dirrect descendents of our parents we are also the manifestation of what our mothers ate and drank while we where in the womb. Every thing, matter, has memory. Perhaps we are seeing much more than past lives. Maybe we are actually tapping into a eternal memory of sorts.
RRed

". . . and you will come to find that we are all one mind."

I agree with you, Red.
Constantine's orthodox church used fear to control the people. Trying to scare the people into morality with threats of hell, has kind of distorted the religion. Hell seems to actually be a purification type fire, as in gold production.
One of the main priciple of christianity, is that we are all connected to God. Some people like to think of themselves as his appendages. By coming closer we will become better people, and make God happy. By straying, we will suffer and dissapoint God. God, according to the Bible, enjoys watching people do productive/kind things, and is saddened by degeneracy, lack of comapssion, and lack of respect.
We're seperate entities, but connected. Imagine your thumb is cut off. You no longer can grab things properly, and the thumb dies. You could comlpetely separate the thumb, but it would be rather pointless.



Also: One of my pothead friends told me about a cult that believes the world is hell.

Also: what are other religions viewpoints on reincarnation and such? Chritianity and Buddhism are the only ones I know anything about.

[AliesterCrowley]

The world is what you make of it. So is this song.

[]thE*s0uRce[]

Believing something is very, very different than actually knowing something.


Is it? Explain why you believe believing something is different than knowing something?

[RRed]

We are eternal wether we believe it or not.

RRed

[neochrist]

you do not have to become eternal, you already are

[EuphoricBlue]

Watch the Eternity in the moment in yourself. Eat the ones that stain blue and all ego dillusions will desolve and it will dawn on you how eternal we are and how all the obstacles that prevent us from seeing spirit are all illusions.

" And plants that grow naturally upon this earth, plants that help you open your eyes to see how your being...FUCKED everyday of your life.....those drugs are against the law... a coincidence...Im sure their motives are pure." -- Bill Hicks

[aphex]

Parabola.

We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment. We are choosing to be here, right hold on stay inside this holy reality, this holy experience.

To me this means that "we" humans do not how we came to be or why, BUT we exist and we make choices in our life for better or for worse. Also, this life we live, is holy because it is the ONE life we get and we should make the most of it.

"spirtuality without religion"

I don't believe in God.

Twirling round with this familiar parable, spinning, weaving round each new experience, recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing.

We all experience a "parable" as we were taught but we experience different things as different individuals. Our life is "holy" in a sense that we get one life, and we should live life to the fullest and do what makes us happy.

I'm drunk.

The truth comes out when your drunk.

Take what you will.

[shorabali]

Reincarnation exists for everyone and everything. Think of life this way, a big ladder, and each step is a lesson and sometimes these lessons take lifetimes to achieve but once we do we will be on step closer to happiness, to transcendence, to being one with god. This is the meaning of what i think parabola is portraying but you never know i may be wrong. I am just a 15 year old after all.

[AllforUnity]

Yeah...but a Buddhist and a Christian have different beliefs.